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The Place of Debate
Posted by AAmir Feb 12, 2002 10:11 pm
Reply #: 238

dost-mittar Saheb

I read your post top to bottom.

hen you compare minority muslims in India & minority Hindu in Pakistan ,dont you think

A/there are far MORE dissimilarity in numbers ,

B/prevalence as to spread over what parts of each country ,

C/conomic wealth of area that is Pakistan & that is Bharat

D/The pattern & period over which muslims of India & hindus of India migrated in the opposite direction

For simplicity sake lets only consider your home West Pakistan & not East Pakistan home of many Bangali like Satyajit ray ,Amarty Sen etc.

It was mechanically feasible to accommodate all the minoreties from Pakistan in India b/cof larger size India but 1/3 of the subcontnent muslim population (indian muslims could not be adequatekly absorbed in both east & west Pakistan NOR i think it was the intention of Mt.Batten ,Radcliff & no doubt leaders like Nehru knew that .

No university ,no cosmopolitan city ,no factory ,hardly developed infra structure .Pakistan British never made for ALL the muslims of the subcontinent .

How Pakistan was demarcated ?

NOT ON BASIS OF MUSLIM MAJORITY AREAS

ONLY ON BASIS IF THE MUSLIM MAJORITY WHICH WAS ALSO OVERWHELMING about 80% or above

Many areas in India have more than 50% muslims murshidabad ,north bihar, purneadist, kashmir ,Kerala certain dist.,Hyderabad regions parts of Azamgarh Rampur Moradabad ,Aligarh in U.P.

In short far greater % as well Absolute numbers of Muslims were Trapped in India than hindus in Pakistan.I think it was smart of you & your kith & kin to have migrated ,atleast for economic reasons.Indian muslims could never be used against Pakistan as bargaining chip for the hindus again BECAUSE OF DISPARITY &DISSIMILARITY BETWEEN THE TWO HOSTAGES.

Almost 90% of muslim migration to Pakistan happened peri partition period & bulk of it was duress direct victim of Bihar ,Punjab u.p. M.P. C.P. Mahrashtra ,hyderabad riots.Whereas Hindus NOT only came injured ,escaping death from the horror of active killing period in and around 47 but upto late 50s .So phenomenon of slow transfer of population kept on to the anger of majority in india and its leadership & adding to the problems just as Kashmiri pundits do still even now .

Pakistanis lucky in this respect that it never had much of infrastructure to begin with to attract ppl to its schools colleges ,universities or business or industries.Moreover Indian muslim those who never wanted to go to Pakistan like Wipros Premji ,Rafique Zakaria were completely at home with multicultural ,multi ethnic india with parsi ,christian ,hindu muslims cosmopolitan calcutta ,Mumbai where they had business & no equivalent place on the otherside of the border.If you take away the religion factor any person who thinks in economic terms would opt for India for larger commerce ,larger population bigger market ,better education ....BOTH hindu from Pakistan & Muslims in India who were in india all along.



Only people who would not come back or into india were the scared the hell chased by riots mohajir or the muslims originally belonging to the area that became Pakistan who had never been or lived in india ever & too chicken to do so now.

Some Indian muslims might have voted for Muslim league but even they would argue that from the time of election & hurriedly chalked out map of Pakistan in 2 months with less than 4 months to independence & hardly time for introspection rather .Impression of having the partition getting passed through hurriedly ,left a distrust in the mind of indian muslims that Either Jinnah sold them out or Mt.Batten showed biase against muslim & in favour of NEHRU & hindus .The very ungentelmanly behaviour of nehru with coquetish Edwina is heavily played in the muslim conspiracy theory.

It was very localised migration of hindus from East Bengal ,West Punjab & Sindh .All hundu that migrated to India came only from thses three point of origin.

Muslims in India were atleast 5-10% in all of 15-20 states then & if muslims of one states were to be asked to leave how would you execute the same thing in another state 1000 miles away with different geopolitical background.Again a fact of dissimilarity between the hindus of Pakistan Muslims of India.

It seems like no body is willing to take the blame .But in short when every body is to be blamed to some extent it is harder to point to the ONE smoking gun.there are so many of them that its pointless to count them.

SAttar 2

You are being evasive,noncommittal & defensive.

When you say REVEALED religions then there must be some NON revealed religion otherwise why invent an adjective if not to differentiate??If you think main stream muslims are absurd in fact you are saying Christian jews are so but any religion like Hinduism with MYTHOLOGY would be ABSURD to.
Just saying that you concur with ALL religions for Political reasons but logically criticizing IRRARIONALITUIES in one of he religionin realit you are saying SOMTHING OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU PROFESS.
So i think it would be better for you if you like many aethists & agnostics become NUMB to all religions semites ,RevealedUnrevealed what do you care & dont even bother to let political prosecution of minoreties colour your opinion.

As far as i know the incredibleness or improbability of Jesus being Immaculate conception ,or Parting of Nile by Moses etc. is Not exclusively Muslim Mullahs belief but Smart Israelis jews & Cosmonaut American christians too.
You cant just condemn Mullah for the same belief without condemning villifying slandering all the thre SEMITES.Otherwise it would br Racism on your part which is discriminatorily being crtical of only one of the three SEMITES!

If Army acts like a Political Party Why not a Forward Bloc in it?
Posted by Tipu Nov 27, 2002 04:18 pm
``and hence this modest effort to put across the burgeoning rage against the junta. This write-up is her first attempt to scribe something political and that too in English. ...``

If there is some other topics discussed by Nighat Yasmeen in Urdu ,we like to read too.Afterall we should all know our National Language as a fistr step .



Changing The Thana Culture
Posted by Tipu Nov 27, 2002 04:18 pm

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#6 by takshak on November 26, 2002 6:01pm PT
Well I think the thana mentality u cite is more similar to one which led to butchering of thousands of people on direct action day in 1946 and rape of as many women. The same thana mentality is responsible for rape of millions and genocide of 1971.
Its a shame that women and men of the community where this thana mentality is espoused pride in these ``glorious`` achievements..

SHAME!!!..

Abey Takhshak


Mumbai 92 kyon bhool gaya


And Feb 28 th 2002 GujjuRIOTS why you avoid to mention


And 7000 other thana of 28 indian states for as many riots since 47 that still occur everyday in India due to Thanedar .....

If you live in some rat hole somewhere in the Chambhal why do you come out even to make fool of yourself ..

In total there have been far greater number of Thana protecting rioters in India than in

If you look at terrorism as a tool of war 0r Defense or aggressions as one of many tactics utilized .....which are out of convention army to army confrontation as we conceptualize

Disinformation, Intelligence,Propoganda,Spying,etc, etc., are other tactics used even before WW2 ....

In the realm of propaganda Denomination is almost a `given `entity ... always. I hope you agree with that.


So here truth is not a criteria or morality.

Just as a govt. lies by suppressing information of casuality,news censure etc.


As student of Madras.dont be alarmed it never was a bad word ..Rajender Prasad among many kayasth hindus education has been there innorth.

Even if it is true written somewhere ...personally reading in standard deeni tallem.quiet naturally Islamiyat or Islam talim is like moral studies and would never include such unless to recruits like in Tamil LTTE or any recruitment Ira or Hamas.

In no imagination i ever dream of any such rewards.And why ..you can live and get these ...as for poor they can always be lied to as happens in all wars.

So not a scholar but a student of deeni taleem or moral studies which basically Koran or Urdu kA quieta 1122344556 is i never heard of thses so repeated virgins or yucks `boys` .

Its unfair to true selfless martyr in wars and battlle ,its unfair for


muslims who are not intersted in bringing world domination. as a religous call.But there can always be a Muslim Hitler .

....jews christians and muslim believe in some qiyamat or armageddeon ..but no more than that re appearence of prophet rather reapppearence b/c muslim specifically consider mohommed the last in the lineage ..Even christian see Jesus who is before Mohommed so no contradiction there .

By the plasces where such things are repeated is quiet in the hatefull tangential talk and reporting