unflinching idealism ... since 1997 archivessitemapabouthelpfeedback
all are welcome to read, write and think
  • Home
  • InFocus
  • Themes
  • Columns
  • Articles
  • Fiction
  • iLogs
  • Gallery
  • Unplugged
  • Writers
  • Interactors
  • Tags
Sign in | Join Chowk
web chowk
« September 2008 »
SMTWTFS
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30

Recently by HP

  • Slavery ended in U.S. ?
  • The Zalmay Saga!
  • Mueller was “beaten up” during President Bush’s morning intelligence briefings
  • Saakashvili began at his discretion,Putin ends at his pleasure!
  • Copyright Infringements!
  • The ISI and the baybus President.
  • Offended Muslim Syndrome & Self-Help Support Groups
  • Let us do it!
  • Another Bubble coming?
  • Nuclear schizophrenic
  • Mistakes made in Afghanistan by the left.
  • Afghanistan-Responding to Pavo
  • Pat Buchanan on a Roll!
  • Is War With Iran Inevitable?
  • Ahmed Rashid... part II
  • Ahmed Rasheed...has to earn his keep!

iLog Categories

  • All
  • Personal
  • Fiction
  • Poetry
  • Travel
  • Work
  • Sports
  • Books
  • Movies
  • Music
  • Philosophy
  • Politics
  • Humor
  • Religion
  • Chowk
  • Other
  • HP
  • Intro & Favorites
  • iLogs
  • Gallery
  • Interacts

Mistakes made in Afghanistan by the left.

Posted: Jul 16, 2008 Wed 01:05 pm     Views: 206    Interacts: 10


Responding to Asadi

“While "mistakes" might have been made, the major players were not the "left" in Afghanistan that brought it to the condition we see today, the major cause of its condition today is the US using the Pak Army and the ISI and the mullahs. “

The left was solely responsible for the mess in Afghanistan was never my point. BUT and I will say this again, the policies the left adopted starting from the removal of Sardar Daud including ill advised Land reforms etc. contributed to providing openings to the Mullah, Pakistan and the US. As I said in my post, Pakistan was going to resist a left regime in Afghanistan because of the problems in both NWFP and Baluchistan. The Pak army had always blamed the leftist and the nationalists for the troubles in both provinces and the left control of Afghanistan was not acceptable to Pakistan army.

You are ignoring the complete political process that goes behind the radical changes in any country. Pakistan and the US response to the left oriented changes, was predictable. Did the leftist in Afghanistan expect any favors from Pakistan? No, they knew what the Pakistan response would be. It took Pakistan almost a year to develop a coherent policy and all the while, the Left in Afghanistan was still fighting with itself.

You cannot ignore the political reality that the left had a very small political support base in Afghanistan. Both Khalq and Parcham were not mass supported there was NO grassroots support for the revolution. They enjoyed support in the Officers corps but not in the cadre or the conscripts. Their support in the westernized middle class was limited. They had no support at all in the countryside. Their first political priority should have been to broaden their base. They never did anything in that area. Instead they followed polices that alienated even the tribes that used to ignore changes in Kabul.

There was practically no reaction to Sardar Daud when he ousted Zahir Shah. In 1964, Zahir Shah turned the country in to a constitutional monarchy, and limited Loya Jirga authority the tribal chiefs, feudal lords or the mullah had no problem with that.

The left primarily ignored the political realities in Afghanistan. As I said in my previous post, the Left used cookie cutter approach of land reforms and nationalization. That just meant picking up unnecessary bones with the feudal and the tribal chiefs. They needed to wait and the best strategy for them would have been to open schools, Health centers, and community activities to build their base in the society. They lost the first round and never recovered from there.

They believed that the SU would help them change everything and that was pure stupidity.

“The fault was not with the left, and the lefts policies didn't fail in Pakistan or any other place, the fault was with a much better organized and powerful opponent who using the local thugs”

Asadi, that is a convenient excuse, this is not even a political response, but it just assumes that the left followed popular policies in Pakistan or in other countries, referred in my post.

The first and foremost reason to Nationalize or takeover of the Industries or lands is to cut the political opposition’s feet off. The Marxists believe (roughly) that the Capitalists, and occasionally the feudal, provide the money and financial support to the political parties in bourgeois societies. Therefore, the Marxists in the SU developed this thesis to Nationalize industry and Banking so the opposition to the New Left oriented regimes is without money and political patronage thus making it hard for the regime opponents to launch a counter political movement to remove the left oriented regimes from the power. The SU cloaked the whole thing in political ideology but in reality, this approach had nothing to do with Marxism and the Marxism never advocated this approach.

In every country, the SU forced this approach; the country ended up in major political trouble and landed in the reactionary hands. You can analyze this in whatever way you want and I can help you but that is the reality. The Nationalization or extreme land reforms created immediate enemies of the nationalist, progressive or the left oriented governments in all countries where they followed this cookie cutter approach ignoring the ground realities.

Look when you take radical political and economic actions the reaction would be extremely political and economic too. Before a regime takes radical actions, it needs to see what the response would be and where that response would come from. The anticipation, preparations and developing political base for support is part of the political process. The SU forced Egypt, Syria, Chile, India, and some more countries to take actions without thinking of the response from the impacted parties. And all these countries are now following the rightist policies. In Pakistan, the misguided pro china left forced Bhutto in to nationalization and land reforms without any preparation and now we know where Pakistan is.

“Now, when the US seeks escalation into Pakistan of its farcial WOT, look how it reacts to any attempts to "consider the countryside"- suggesting that it all be ignored and no deals made....”

The US is following exactly the Policy that SU adopted in Afghanistan. Protect the cities and attack the countryside where the opposition is located. You clearly seem to be totally lost in anti US rhetoric. This is not an intellectually correct approach. You should be able to see how actions and reactions are developed. The US will work in its National interest and the groups opposing the US would work in their interests. You need to be able to look at both sides of the fronts to see the realities. The afghan issue is not a static picture that only has white in the back. It was not a static picture when the SU was there and it is not a picture now.

“This my friend was the anatomy of the problem: the US wanting to punish the SU in its own backyard, “

Yeah that was it. How that changes the facts that the leftist and the SU made mistakes that allowed the US to punish SU in its own backyard? That is what politics is all about.

“the SU deeply trapped in the US farcial (cold) world war, understanding this and then intervening, thus falling into the US trap, before this even when Afghanistan went with a begging bowl to the US, the US ignored them.”

The US was supposed to do this. The Soviets were not children they knew what was going on.

This is elementary! When you have political, ideological, and economic clashes, you will develop strategies to destroy the opposition. I just don’t see how that confirms that the US was the only bad party.

This is a pretty long post. I will post it on ilog here on Chowk or on my blog(I will PM you the link) and we can discuss it there if you prefer that.


+ add to my favorite ilogs + flag objectionable content


Latest comments
Posted by quin on Saturday July 19, 2008 06:13 pm
Wish you good health
Posted by majumdar on Friday July 18, 2008 12:39 am
HP sain,

Get well soon!

Regards
Posted by HP on Friday July 18, 2008 12:10 am
Asadi,
I will respond to your post in a day or two. I had a little medical procedure and I am just relaxing right now. Will respond to you in my Ilogs.
Thanks Dada!
Posted by quin on Thursday July 17, 2008 09:25 am
HP, thanks for clarifying. In a way Daud's ambitions (not accepting his fall) was the trigger point in Afghanistan's tragic history - how Shakespearean
Posted by majumdar on Thursday July 17, 2008 01:13 am
HP sain,

Masadi sahib's response

HP writes "The left was solely responsible for the mess in Afghanistan was never my point. BUT and I will say this again, the policies the left adopted starting from the removal of Sardar Daud including ill advised Land reforms etc. contributed to providing openings to the Mullah,.."



I think it is incorrect to blame the left in this manner. If the left's failed policies provided an opening to "the Mullah" the Daud's crackdown on the PDPA provided an opening to "the left", who after bringing this person to power now wouldn't just standby and see him destroy the left, giving us circumstantial evidence of foreign anti-soviet meddling in the affairs of this government. Saying that the Left's reforms like land reforms were "ill advised" is not correct either. Forgiving of the debts of farmers and breaking up feudal estates is necessary to set the roots for a bourgeoisie revolution. The nationalization part as I have argued many times in the past might not be Marxist because the Marxist communism is not implemented it is a natural consequence of advanced capitalism run amok, but to control the effects of a bourgeoisie revolution imposed on a feudal society, it becomes a necessity in order to transition to a new economic structure. ZAB had great popular support but the powers that be, regardless of the popular support, have resources to make or break that support, and for which purpose they have used the Mullah and "Islam khatray me hai"- rather than blame them, you are blaming the left and trying to absolve the major criminals in what has become of Afghanistan today, those being the Pakistan Army and the US. They trapped the SU both by making Daud go against the PDPA and then by funding and flaming the so-called "Islamic insurgency" of the countryside.



The greatest period of development in Afghanistan was when the left was in power and had those policies continued, Afghanistan would have been a much different country today. And you claim of blaming today's Pakistan on the Nationalization of ZAB is disingenuous, the Army rules and the decades of privatization and squander of national wealth as a result thereof has produced the current sorry state of the Pakistan economy. Were ZAB's policies to carry on, Pakistan would have been an industrial giant with feudalism in its past, to develop a base to change the structure of an economy from an agricultural/feudal to an industrial/bourgeoisie, heavy protection of which nationalization is a form is needed. All of the so called industrial powers developed after heavy protection of their infant industries, some took the route of colonization which served the same purpose barbarically.



You agree with me that the US is looking to make things fail, and then ignore my points about the ZAB making every concession in the book but every new concession comes with new demands till they change a left leaning government into an ultra right wing one that discriminates based on religion, that privitizes instead of nationalizes that strengthens the feudals and gives political leverage to the Mullahs- this kind of compromise nobody should undertake, and undertaking which does not show us that the person doing so is knowledgable of the political situation rather it tells us that he has submitted to the power situation and will NEVER be able to change it. It was not the left’s fault, they undertook reforms that were much needed, they were not given much time, and time is needed for building up a base of support due to reforms. Fast base building happens when an external enters a nation and that was the trap set by the US for its success in that region, the SU fell into the trap because it was “heads you lose, tails you lose”, they had no other choice or US missiles in a so-called “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” would not only be placed in their backyard, their own Muslim populations would have been inflamed to rebel. That was the “political reality” faced by the SU, it had to intervene but then by doing so it sealed its own fate- a perfect trap and the vultures of the Pakistan Army stepped in to clean off the carcass eaten by the US dogs


Regards
Posted by HP on Wednesday July 16, 2008 10:42 pm
Thanks Dada!
Posted by HP on Wednesday July 16, 2008 10:41 pm
I blanked out and used static picture couple of times at the end. I meant still photographs.

quin,
Sardar Daud was Zahir Shah's cousin. He was afghan PM from 1953 to 63. That was the most difficult time in Pakistan afghan relations. He had a falling out with the Shah and was removed until he got the power back with the help of the leftist army officers in 1973-74.
Usually at that level leaders are not agents or employee of some international agencies. They "work" with different people and see what is in their benefit. If he was a CIA agent, the pro-Russia army officers would not have supported him.

As he begin to drift towards the center, the communist in Afghanistan called him several things. His drift towards the center was due to threats from Bhutto and the Pak army, some hope for material support from the US that the Pakistani might have promised to get from the US and lastly a Pakistan sponsored low level right wing opposition led by Hakmatyar.

Posted by majumdar on Wednesday July 16, 2008 08:41 pm
HP sain,

Well summed up.

Regards
Posted by quin on Wednesday July 16, 2008 02:32 pm
This all makes sense to me. Only one thing seems to be overlooked is that if leftist would have not deposed Daud, he was going to kill them all. And that was the quandry in which left found itself and the debacle started.
And I hear, Daud was CIA man.


HP

  • Interacts: 3615
  • iLogs: 45
  • Gallery: 1
  • Page views: 16146
  • Last visitor: vengatramanan
  • Member since: Feb 7 2004
  • Last signin: Sep 6 2008
  • Send a message
  • Add as friend
  • Add to ignore list
  • Add to block list

Favorite iLogs

  • My MUSIC PAGE
  • The Cup of Coffee............... an interesting article tht i came across
  • The Circus
  • Some thoughts on Sufis and Sufism
  • An Occult Religion behind an Islamist fascade

Top 5 Articles This Week

  • Popular
  • Save Me From Charismatic Leaders!
  • Free to Breed
  • US Commando Strike in Waziristan
  • Why Zardari Should Be President!
  • There is no ‘honour’ in killing
  • Featured
  • There are a Lot of Monkeys
  • White Charade
  • Words of a Woman
  • FOX News and the Smelly Shoes
  • Dilemmas of Creative Children
  • 10 Years Ago
  • Petition against the Nuclearization of South Asia
  • Full Literacy is no Magic Wand
  • There Might Not be a Tomorrow
  • Thanksgiving II
  • Choona Aur Chooriyan

Write on Chowk Interact Guidelines Privacy policy Terms Contact

Copyright © 1997 - 2008 chowk.com. All Rights Reserved
Reproduction of material on any www.chowk.com pages without prior written permissions is strictly prohibited