Withdrawing from Iraq (Part II): Considering Options

#35 lots of things wrong with that. Firstly compared to the average Walmart employee, the wealthy, as a class confront thousands of points of advantage in the form of health, schools, social capital, networks etc that helps them consolidate their wealth- the wealth is literally handed out to them like the Bush tax cuts, contracts etc. Also, such concentration of wealth has life and death consequences for those at the bottom. Distributional deprivation (in a world of plenty) causes 40,000 preventible deaths every single day according to UN statistics- there is something terribly WRONG with such inequality, it is criminal and barbaric, and is supported and kept in place by the US elite and their world system- Good day to you.

Re: # 36

Dear masadi:

This post was too tempting for me to pass it without comment.

The US contributes more than 20% of the UN budget. Over 46 countries considered as Least Developed Countries (LDCs) do not pay anything. Some countries pay according to their national wealth.

Then, we have the IMF in which the US contibutes. Then, we have the World Bank in which the US contibutes. And these are all the US tax payers money.... Got it.

Pakistan gets some the money for the paindoos in Islamabad to siphon it back to their coffers in foreign countries. And then you blame the US for third world people`s misery. Oh!....I have to wait for your intellect to kick in for an answer.

Did you not hear how Islamabad promising transperency on quake relief funds? If Islamabad is not a bastion of crooks, then why did they have to promise such behavior?


Respectfully submitted,

#33 I was talking about wealth not income. According to economist Edward Wolff of New York University, if home ownership is taken out of the equation (wealth in housing is the most widely-dispersed of assets), the richest 1/2 of 1% (0.5%) together (about 450,000 households) now own 42% of the nation’s financial wealth. Exclude owner occupied homes from wealth calculation and the richest 1% own over 50% of US wealth (Neubeck, 2005:188). The bottom 40% owned 0.2% (a fraction of one percent) of wealth in the U.S., and many of them were in debt.

What does it mean when we say that 1% owns over 50% of the wealth (say 51%), that means that the top 1% owns GREATER wealth than the rest of the 99% combined (51% vs 49%)

Hope that clarified your concers.

Re: # 34

masadi,

......... do you ever wonder why sam walton was worth more than all the employees of wal-mart put together ?......... and what is wrong with that ?

........ you too can own a piece of the pie - buy walmart stock !

behram writes ``This country is not governed by weekly polls. Thank God for that. You will have to wait for November 2006 elections to see what happens``

Mr. Behram Gullibally, which cave do you come from?

Indeed this country gets governed by the weekly polls, even though the party under fire during that week claims that weekly polls are just that - a weekly poll. Even the November 2006 elections will be determined by what the gullible american nation thinks in that week. No one in gullible america, including Behram Gullibally will take into account the performance of last 4 years. It just about what feels right in that week. And that is why you have huge sums of money being spent and strategists like Karl Rove in full action trying to put the lipstick on pig in the weeks leading up to the elections - just so that the american people`s opinion DURING the week of November elections is where Mr Rove wants it to be. And that is why you have big strategy decisions, such as phosphorous bombing of Falluja postponed until a week after the November elections, so as not to sour the public mood in that week. And that is why you have fake issues, like gay marriages, given prime importance by Rove in the summer before the November 2004 elections, just to scare middle america into republican submission.

And Mr. Behram Gullibally, that is why within few weeks after the November 2004 presidential elections, when Mr. Rove stopped puttig lipstick on the pig, the NY Time poll indicated that the percentage of americans against the war had increased since elections. And that is why the gay marriage issue kinda faded away after elections - it was propped up only for that week in November 2004 anyway.

Karl Rove understands it much better than you, Mr Behram, that the american public would never sit down and review the performance of a president from November 2000 to November 2004.

Re: # 32

Dear malik99:

[Mr. Behram Gullibally, which cave do you come from?] I came from Karachi, Pakistan from an area called Burns Road. And that area is definitely not a cave.

[Indeed this country gets governed by the weekly polls, even though the party under fire during that week claims that weekly polls are just that - a weekly poll.]

Foreign policy has always remained the prerogative of the excutive branch. One can always talk about etc. etc., but the executive branch makes the ultimate decision. And that is why Bush has said openly so many times that under his leadership as the President (for 3 more years) US will not cut and run from Iraq.

So most anti-war activists might as well go back to sleep, and wake up in three years.

Respectfully submitted,

#29 behram1, totally atrocious, not a single fact presented in your argument. You want to divert the talk to the Israel/Palestine issue? That is not what this article was about but there too you are short on substance and big on propaganda. Israel is the occupier, the resolution 242 asks it to move the hell out of occupied territories but it does what? builds settlements on the territories and decades after is still occupying it. Only an idiot cannot see whose to blame in all this. By the mid 1970s the Palestinians had already agreed on the two state solution- you are big on labels and curses, about Saddam, PLO etc, relying on appeal to emotion and no substantive arguments whatsoever.

For those who are interested in the Israel/Palestiine issue which is a simple case of an occupier illegally occupying another`s homeland- the whole world except for the US and Israel see it this way- read this article http://israel.rationalreality.com

Re: # 31

Dear masadi:

[totally atrocious,] What is totally atrocious?

[not a single fact presented in your argument.] What sort of fact do you want?

[You want to divert the talk to the Israel/Palestine issue?] You were the first one who started bringing Israeli issue with the Palestinians. Do you have some brain desease?

[That is not what this article was about but there too you are short on substance and big on propaganda.] Can you come up with a different sentence? I am getting tired of this short stuff.

[Israel is the occupier, the resolution 242 asks it to move the hell out of occupied territories but it does what?] That is not the whole truth or the complete truth. Can you get the whole resolution 242? or is just what PLO has been stating for the muslim world consumption?

Besides, this was under Chapter 6 of the UN which you conveniently forget.
Iraq`s resolution was under Chapter 7, in which use of force is allowed. Did you get this?

[Only an idiot cannot see whose to blame in all this.] Correct, and that idiot is you.

[By the mid 1970s the Palestinians had already agreed on the two state solution- ] On what land? The land that belonged to Jordan until 1988? What rubbish? Even after Oslo (1993) they wre asked to do away with the destruction of Israel from their Charter. And this happened sometime in 1995. Wah bhai wah what selective memory you have....

Wah reh wah...yeh bhi khoob demag ka bawseer ho tum...

[you are big on labels and curses, about Saddam, PLO etc, relying on appeal to emotion and no substantive arguments whatsoever.] What arguments do you want? You are completely brain dead.

[For those who are interested in the Israel/Palestiine issue which is a simple case of an occupier illegally occupying another`s homeland- the whole world except for the US and Israel see it this way- read this article http://israel.rationalreality.com]

You are giving me all those other sites to read. Why can`t you present a cogent argument yourself?

So, let us start this all over again....

The war in Iraq is a legitimate war which has been sanctioned by the UN and hopefully the Iraqi people will win. Now what do you have to say?

Keep the conversation going. Remain focused and no hocus pocus this time.

Respectfully submitted,

#24- there is something terribly wrong with the Bush Tax cuts when you see numbers like 1% of the wealthiest in the US controlling more wealth than the rest of the 99% combined, and a breakdown of that 1% reveals that even a smaller percent controls the major chunk- numbers like the fact that even though the population from 2000 to 2006 in the US increased by around 5%, the number of the poor (during the same period) increased by 19 % (31 million then, 37 million now). The fact that 36 million suffer from hunger in the US and 47 to 82 million Americans (per year or parts of it) without Health Insurance or access to basic health care- (for details and documentation visit http://usa.asadi.org)

The double jeapordy is not faced by those (rich) who pay dividend taxes, it is faced by the poor working class folks who not only pay the most taxes percentage wise (have a look at the 2005 budget receipts of the US) but whose money is then squandered on adventures like Iraq- the ``investment`` that behram1 talks about that is then recycled back to corporations like Halliburton, etc- who get paid not only via tax breaks but also via these studpid contracts that don`t help anyone- the situation in Iraq today, nearly three years into the invasion is worse than it was with Saddam and the sanctions. Shame on the US elite for not only destroying a country (Iraq) but also impoverishing its own people and the world.

#22 behram1, once again your post is full of incoherence and claims and not much else. Short on substance but long on BS. You claim that ``people`s power`` is long dead, not so, neither are socialistic principles that seek to help people. Five hundred years back the majority believed that the earth was flat, and they went around claiming that the few that believed that the earth was rounded were fools as their hypothesis was debunked- This wasn`t the case however.

The trick employed by Republicans regarding ``immediate withdrawl`` without any debate proves that this so called representative government is not representative at all. Most of the public is against the war, and against George Bush`s policies but by trickery and big money`s control over Congress they can get these tricks and give them a facade of legitimacy.

Saddam Hussein was a US stooge, if he didnt understand human dignity, it was because his masters didnt understand it either- he was a criminal but his masters are bigger criminals, greater thugs, bigger time players of tyranny than he could ever expect to be.

Regarding Israel and the resolutions, ofcourse, it shows the double standard employed by the UN, when Israel invades and occupies land for over three decades, has weapons of mass destruction by its own admission, has made the biggest prison in the world, all of gaza and the west bank with sealed borders and checkpoints are BIG prisons, they pass negotiation based resolutions which Israel rejects and breaks and violates time and again. The US will not let any force be used against it- that proves my point not yours.

About privitization, I mention that it is not only Iraq, the system however is the same, privitize through war (explicit control) or through IMF/World Bank (implicit control). For those who are interested in finding out more on this read this article http://www.geocities.com/globalghetto)

You criticize Chavez even though he is democratically elected, in elections that were more democratic than the farce that ``elected`` George Bush; Chavez survived the US backed coup as well and your new imperialists in Washington are itching to get rid of him.

The ``investment`` you talk about is a farce too, it was answered in the accounting 101 piece I posted here earlier. You say that the wealthy are in a better leadership position than those that receive a paycheck to make sounder decisions- NOT SO! the current world situation reveals as empirical evidence that the wealthy have helped their ilk even as the vast majority of humanity have gotten poorer and much worse off. By the way, most of the intellectuals are not wealthy, they receive pay checks.

You end by saying, ``maybe you will learn something``. I suggest you give up your arrogance and ``slave of the west`` mentality, and you will then begin to learn many things to which you are currently blind.

Good day.

Re: # 28

Dear masadi:

No, no, no, no.... I will not allow you to get away with your diatribe. I am just having too much fun to let you just get awaay with this post. So maybe in 500 years we should get back and see what has happened in the War on Terror.

[Short on substance but long on BS.] Precious thoughts always come in small packages. You must accept that people`s power has been dead for a long time. Where in the muslim world do you find socialist principle?

[The trick employed by Republicans regarding ``immediate withdrawl`` without any debate proves that this so called representative government is not representative at all.] That is exactly what politics is all about. Republicans wanted to triangulate the Democrats and were succcessful. So, why is Hillary Clinton not supporting troop pull out?

[Most of the public is against the war, and against George Bush`s policies] This country is not governed by weekly polls. Thank God for that. You will have to wait for November 2006 elections to see what happens.

[Saddam Hussein was a US stooge, if he didnt understand human dignity, it was because his masters didnt understand it either- he was a criminal but his masters are bigger criminals, greater thugs, bigger time players of tyranny than he could ever expect to be.]There you go, once again, like a typical person from the crescent society, putting blame on others. When will we learn to accept our own shortcommings and drawbacks....Blah, blah, blah...and more balh, blah, blah....Mommy, mommy, it was tommy`s fault....Blah, blah, blah.

[Regarding Israel and the resolutions, ofcourse, it shows the double standard employed by the UN,] So, now, do you have problem with the UN?

[when Israel invades and occupies land for over three decades,] And in all those resolutions, it says that both parties (Israel and ? who) must talk. It was only in 1988 that Jordan gave up the right to the West Bank. And then PLO got excited with intifada. Go and study the timeline and see for yourself how f*cked up PLO has been and is in its stratgey.

[has weapons of mass destruction by its own admission, ] Wah reh wah khoob rahi aap ki khopri. Did Israel sign the NPT agreement? Did Israel sign any terms of surrender that Iraq did?

What is your rant all about? You are buying into the idiotic conspiracy theorists that are flourishing all across the middle east. Are you a punjabi paindoo? You definitely write very passionately, just like a paindoo would do.

[ The US will not let any force be used against it- that proves my point not yours.]And your point was?

[About privitization, I mention that it is not only Iraq, the system however is the same, privitize through war (explicit control) or through IMF/World Bank (implicit control).] So? It is good for the common man. Is it not?

[You criticize Chavez even though he is democratically elected, ]Hugo is still a pompous idiot.

[ By the way, most of the intellectuals are not wealthy, they receive pay checks. ] And this is my point. This was the best comment on your post. So, you think that intellectuals are somehow better leaders than people with money, eh?

Did you not know that there are more stray cats than fat cats?

Okay, keep the conversation going. Maybe I will learn something.

Respectfully submitted,

The solution to Iraq is staring in our faces but George W. Bush is not smart enough to get it. Just partition that goddamn place. There are 3 countries in Iraq - Sunnistan, Shiastan and Kurdistan. Just create 3 countries, draw up international borders like Mountbatten did and withdraw from that place like the Brits did in India. There will be riots, bloodshed and some ethnci cleansing, but so what? After that things will cool down and people will go about their lives.

#20 by masadi on December 2, 2005 10:49pm PT


#18 again, referring to the outrageous Bush tax cuts to the wealthy, even as he proposed cutting social services to the needy, as ``Tax Reform`` is criminal.


WTF is wrong with removing the double taxation on dividends, huh?

I support Dubya`s tax cuts 100%...which is why I`m against the Iraq war...If you cut revenue, you need to cut spending.

The solution is simple...Arm the shias and the kurds...set them on the sunnis..the sunnis don`t have the oil..the shias and the kurds do...

Let`s see if I understand behram`s logic: If I have invested several millions in a new yacht I should go down with it if it sinks.

Re: # 23

Dear mirmir:

No, this is your logic. [Let`s see if I understand behram`s logic: If I have invested several millions in a new yacht I should go down with it if it sinks. ]

If I have invested money in the investment then I make the decision, and not you. That is my logic.

So please stick to your earlier thesis. Remember accounting 101 that you taught earlier. Don`t waffle and bring other irrelevant variables.

It is the invester (read US) who makes the decision when and how to cut their losses, and not some anti-war or socialist propagandist. Just wait for a few more weeks and then you will see NATO forces will show up clamoring for a piece of Iraqi oil. And then we would see a huge return on US investment.

And that is how today`s world works.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 23

>>>>Let`s see if I understand behram`s logic: If I have invested several millions in a new yacht I should go down with it if it sinks.<<<

Mirmir Sahib, I think what Behram Sahib is saying that you should try to fix your own stinking (I mean sinking) yacht instead of eyeing other people’s (read American Elite) million dollar yacth. It is easy to be envious but not easy to take the blame for one’s own failure. I think the more energy you spend being envious of other people’s yacth, the less time it leaves for you to fix your own yacth. Your and Asadi Sahib’s logic is a collosal failure of Titanical proportions. You are floating on a tube. Watch out for the sharks.