The Leveling of America

re:#72 by behram1
Beharam is back to his old ways.
Where does it say in the link he provided that only 20% of Indian Engineers are good.
Sridhar

Re: # 78 Mr. Ranger your post is bad test not polite. In Pakistan we tyeach children to talk like, yes sir, No sir, Thank you sir, madam, you are welcome sir etc polite and cultured. A good person is humble and is not adverising himself. I find your pictures of car in bad taste. These are not good manners. It better to not pay attention to show off. Why you not pictures of your parliment members who are for sale , 11 Mps for 20000 rupees.

All cars are in made in Korea and japan and england and america etc.and assembled in India. In essential things like herioc tech pakistan is bit head of India like, missile firing to hit airmachine, or launching setellite etc.

India can not advance as it is surrounded and targetted by two nuclear powers, China and IRP and both will see India never get permanant seat and both do not want indian success as little success goes to head of little indians and they get buserk and get crazy. India will be little ahead but we will see it does not go ahead of china as we can easily pull ladder and Indians come tumbling down.And India is surrounded by armies of China, Pakistan and Bangladesh and they can squeeze India when they want but we are peace and friendship as Islam means sumission and love and friendship and brotherhood. We are not not interested in material things as they are short time and we can not take with us for judgement day.

Any way I think Intelluctual and well to do Saudi and pakistani people should come together and sue this nobel prize person for defamation of muslims who are foolwing religion of peace and tmay be this peolple can take him to world court for defaming. His plan is bad as that will curtail no of pakistanis can immigrate to usa. Does any body knows who is this nobel winner, I am sure if good investigation is done he can be put in jail for some years for propagating wrong thoughts. I am sure many Desi lawyers in usa etc can band together and ask usa govt to deport him.

It is true when from Sindh and Karachi all seths went india all skills and enterprising spirit went and leftwere illiterate farmers and vaccuum filled by MQM follower who have great abilities. You know there lots of business there is lot of money with out high tech and low tech industries. Finally it boils down to money. Lots money in no tech. Also Bill get is making indians work hard and making mother of all programs which keep all indian computer people out of job as Mother of all programs will destroy use of softies. Chisene will survive as they write mostly hardwere related soft were programming.

Finally what is great in car when got gave legs to walk and bicycle and just pollution and paying dollars for petrol. It better to put money in Public transport as they are thinking of circular raiway in Karachi. I do not care much as I do not go out at all due anxity problems. So you take all those cars and drive Madanisab does not care if you waste gas and create pollution. Go ahead and drive and go away. Good luck. Bill gets has 30% indians in microsoft and he wants to exploit little indians and stll keep slaves happy so he goes to India and throws little pocket money and Indians go crazy, he laughs.

Only I like indian monkeys. I read story from India on Ruter about with picture. There was little puppy missing from his mother at railway station. People were looking for mother but in vain and shivering. One of your monkey came down but be female and cuddled puppy and kissed and took on tree and when people came around ran in jungle. People were if indian monkey eat dog puppy. But monkey is taking good care of puppy and carries puppy all around. I really felt good and tears came to my eyes and I felt optimistic.
We can learn lot from monkey and prople who are nasty and cruel and really bad.

Any way that monkey is very nice I salute monkey we can learn lot.

So you become polite and just be nice like that Indian monkey.
good morning everybody and great luck.

I wanted to post link but I lost it...

I n early October, under the auspices of TIE-Pittsburgh, Vijay Mallya, the tycoon of the alcoholic beverage industry in India, addressed a gathering of mostly desi entrepreneurs and VCs from the US mainstream. The flamboyant Mallya is a multifaceted personality. In addition to his entrepreneurial skills, he is into race cars, horse-breeding, and owns a yacht. He is also a member of India’s Parliament. Tongue firmly planted in his cheek, he told his audience how the Indian media refers to him as a playboy. The TIE brochure, keeping in tune with the upwardly mobile Indians’ assessment of themselves, described him as the King of Good Times—because he is the chairman of $2.5 billion conglomerate UB (United Breweries) Group, maker of Kingfisher beer, and McDowel Brandy. Mallya is also into petrochemicals and fertilizers, and recently got into the airline industry.
He has made Indian shareholders in his company very happy, but his ventures in the US has only brought grief to his investors, as reported by Len Boselovic in Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on Sunday, October 9.

In his hour-long address to his adoring and doting audience—two people in the audience even took wine to him as he emptied his glass as he was speaking from the podium—his two points drew my attention.

• Mallya said the role of governments is to provide solid infrastructure—which, we would argue, not only includes transportation, water and electricity, but also covers solid primary and secondary education, basic health care for citizens—and let the private investors use the infrastructure to fight it among themselves to providing goods and services in an open, competitive way. However, the Indian government, after 58 years of independence and millions and millions of squandering taxpayer monies, is asking foreign investors to pump money for infrastructure development. This, he said, is a misplaced policy. There is merit to this argument.

• The other point Mallya made highlighted the crux of India’s dilemma: While the GDP grew at 8 to 9% per year for the whole of India, he told his audience, in Metro India — Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai, Gurgaon, Chandigarh, and other places — the growth rate was around 12-14% annually, with software growing at 30%. What is “dragging India down,” as Mallya described it, is the rather low growth rate in rural and small-town India dominated by traditional farming, technology-lean manufacturing, where the growth rate continues to be around 3-4% annually.
This huge gap in the growth rates between Metro and Rural India only confirms what is quite obvious to any casual visitor to India who spends his/her time both in Rural and Metro India.

As a consequence, Metro and Rural India (and the English-educated and the vernacular-educated in Metro India) live in two different worlds not having much in common with each other. Making matters worse, Metro India, with all its sophistication, better education, and access to many things modern, has become incapable of understanding Rural India.

Metro India, with its mobile and anglicized population from all over India has the attitude of European colonial rulers—patronizing, disdainful, and condescending—towards the local vernacular-educated people.

In the wake of globalization, the educated class in every country is increasingly disengaged from its own hinterland while seamlessly getting integrated with the educated class in all other countries. But what makes it worse in India is that the anglicized Metro India is increasingly disengaged from the vernacular India and its history, languages, social, cultural, literary, philosophical ethos. Remember, India has given birth to four major religions—Hinduisms, Jainism, Buddhism, and Sikhism; has over 15 languages with rich collections of sophisticated thoughts in its literature, and has vibrant performing arts and traditional architecture having older than 1500 years history.

This Metro-Rural divide in India has social and political consequences. Already, if you’re rural and vernacular educated, your lot is pitiful:
• You are not familiar with the language in which modern-day merchandize is sold and used. If you buy a camcorder or a DVD player in India, will you get the receipt, warranty card, and the instruction manual in a language you are familiar with?
• You are not familiar with the language of the legal system and the medical prescriptions and test results you get from your physicians. How do you educate patients to use, say, inhalers, nebulizers, or on the need to taper off the dosage of dangerous life-saving medicines such as steroids?
• Then you go the temple or invite the priest to your home for a marriage. You don’t understand Sanskrit — Arabic, if you are a Muslim — the language in which the priest conducts the ceremony. To make matters worse, often, even the priests themselves do not know either the literal meaning or the import of what they are reciting.

With nearly 2/3 of people living in small towns and villages, and with the great socioeconomic disparities within Metro India, the divide between those who have access to resources and those who do not is becoming wider and deeper by the day. Just one example: In Metro India, most modern medical treatments are available, but are affordable only to the very affluent and resourceful. If you`re poor, you`re out of luck.
There is no way Rural India can catch up with the Metro India. A bicycle can never catch up with a motorbike.
This Rural-Metro Divide is so complex that it cannot be understood purely in terms of economics, and or handled politically and legally alone. There are important social and spiritual (not religious) components that need to be addressed first.

Thinkers in India well-grounded in Indian ethos are only too conscious of this, and they are airing their views in public forums on the disastrous consequences of this ever-widening gulf.
Where India will be as a nation in the next fifty years depends on whether India’s ruling elite, its entrenched bureaucracy, and its ambitious middle class listen to India’s conscience keepers to bridge — at least narrow — this widening gulf.

After nearly 30 years of runaway growth in China, its leaders recently recognized that the wide disparities between its ambitious, middle class urban population and its rural folks is not good for the long-term stability of China as a nation, and its goal as a super power in the not-distant future.
The Metro India today is oozing in self-confidence and believes that their members are the smartest in the world. So, can we hope Indians won’t repeat the Chinese mistake? Metro India’s callousness on this subject does not give one any optimism.

re: Indian IT engineers
Behram may be right this time and i end up eating the humble pie. But this problem seems to be with Indian computer engineers
Sridhar

the notion that indians are some kind of champions of trade because of their i.t. industry is quite laughable - sort of like saying that india is a champion of fast bowling because of kapil dev`s 431 wickets. on a per capita basis and relative to size of economy, indian exports including software exports are about the same as that of pakistan and are dwarfed by that of turkey and malaysia. more importantly, with the exception of bangladesh, no where in the mainstream islamic world will you see mind numbing poverty of the kind you find in india. and bengalis we know are dau number kay muslims. and sure indian economy is doing well but than, so are most of the emerging market economies including pakistan.

in terms of a good trading role model, pak should follow the example of east asian countries like thailand and taiwan. thailand for instance with a population of 70 mn has exports which far exceed that of india on an absolute basis. and taiwan is a good role model because it has been able to develop economically despite having a fairly adversial relationship with china.

another advice to pakistanis is not to take the word of indians when it comes to analysis on pak/islamic world. these people, no matter how reasonable they may sound, always have an agenda which is shaped by the history of indian interaction with islam.

Re: # 83

HP

Great write up.

My two bits:

While intelligent leaders in China HAVE to figure out the problem, in India democracy induces goons and intellectuals alike to perceive and react to the problem. BJP`s feel good message did not work....Manmohan realizes the problem and is trying to address the miserly 2-2.5 p.c growth rate in agriculture. Where India looses out is organization and implementation.

Anil ,

The total capitalization of US stockmarket (Wilshire5000 ) is about $13 trillion.
So you are saying that the saudis own approx $1.2 trillion in stocks !!

I would be very skeptical and doubt it very much.
Even Fidelity may not have that much funds.

Do you have any evidence/references where you got that number ?

Re: # We need to be nice with people and cooperation can lead to good things.
Like India has IIT and IRP student should go there and save money instead of usa or Uk. I think in market USA UK degree will be more valued but IIT degree may be only at 1/10 price.

Indians are good technician and good learner so they can do Arithmatic, algebra etc. But Pakistani people are better managers as people in actual business said here many times. So indians can save money by coing to karchi and lahore for managers training save money of going to usa. That Puppy and monkey picture some body should put here. ( I tried to copy but softwere does not copy) and we should keep in hose framed they are giving message. I am with owner of this newspapers to keep down Me. Behram as that sugar cane juice was going beyond limits like obsession. I do not mind obscene if it is subtle but it was no brainer. Thanks the owners of this place as I had began to feel if some pervert at top level to allow sugarcane business. Otherwise mr. Behram is honorable man.

Re: # 75

Mohar:

This crap is true, if you watched Michael Moore`s film.

Anil

#86 GT,

True! A great write up but not mine...I have in DB but for some reason I don’t have the link to it.

In fact, if I have time I will post something about the Indian IT industry and its problems. Mainly that now US executive have begun to realize that IT was overpriced and no Programmer, DBA or Network person deserves more than $50K yearly. The reason is the poor workmanship from Indians and their low prices.

Despite many re-writes, re-works and work arounds Indian IT is still cheap. Indian programmers lack innovation and are more into following than leading.
More later....Got to watch cricket....

#87

``So you are saying that the saudis own approx $1.2 trillion in stocks !! ``

That is correct...Total investments not just stocks alone...will find the link for you... but not now...

Re: # 87

Satyamvada:

This is true, check Michael Moore`s documentary, and the 60-minutes program. BTW, this just Saudi Royals, the total Arab (= Muslim investment) is more.

Anil

Re: # 84

Sridhar:

I hate to talk to you, after your knowledge of Sanskirt fisaco. I thought you need help here, and I must put differences aside. It does not mean that you must not have a new year resolution on cleaning your language.

I could not take the pity on you eating a humble pie to someone whose only strength visible to a stranger like me has been his hate full messages to so called hindoo young generation and rocks in some hondoo mind, while this generation is beating the crap out of the americans and others alike. Please check (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10455090/site/newsweek/.)

Microsoft would not be investing $1.7 billion if the situation was hopeless. The news like you have mentioned are only alarm bells that India or anyone in India`s position must LISTEN and ACT with the utmost speed, sincerity and professionally. It certainly is not the end, it is only the beginning of the road less travelled. I can tell you what was at the beginning of China, and Korea.

Anil

Re: # 91

KSA Royal family may be even owning more. Mr.Romair once gave name of prince who is in investments and legendary person who has 34% return in stock market on average per year. When stocks are down KS pumps 3 million barrels extra/ per day and 120 Million goes in USA stock market. Also they employ good nice jew money managers. Jewish smart brains and saudi millions per day is tremendous wealth creating by value adding investments. If GOP gives Price to invest he can mkae lots of money. They call saudi+ Jewish managers as Warmachts panzer divisions on march in stock markets.

AHMEDMADANI` #82
You Sound like a typical Paki Loser.Lets clear a few points
Islam -a religion of brotherhood and peace ,sure mate Gauri,Ghazanavi,Abdali were creatures of Non Violence-what do you say
India- held back because of Armies of China ,Pakistan, Bangladesh-Does Bangladesh have an army?Memory recall-1947,1965,1971-KNOCK KNOCK ANYBODY THERE

Saudi collabaration in Paki Madrassah`s - GREAT INVESTMENT

Indian Microsoft Slave better than a Paki Taxi Driver /Terrorist Driver-Have you heard about THE SILLIC0N VALLEY WHERE 40% CHIP DESIGNERS ARE INDIANS.

Indian Monkey is far superior to the paki dog who is completely dependant on American aid

By the chinese is spelled as CHINESE NOT CHISENE,reuter as REUTERS NOT RUTERS
WHICH MADRASSAH DID YOU GO TO.

THINK ABOUT IT (IF YOU CAN )

Ms.Saima Shah must be congratulated for her audacity in reviewing the book of a stalwart like Thomas Friedman of New York Times. Otherwise, when people like him speak, the lesser mortals just listen. Not speak again. They have almost reached the status of a cult or a Guru or a Prophet so much so that while meditating in an aeroplane at 30000 ft with their followers(sitting on suitacases filled with dollars) ,they say ``jump``, the followers will jump from the plane(with their suitcases)...no matter whether they land in China or Ghana. But jump they will.

Mr.Friedman`s latest book ``The World is Flat`` has been widely acknowledged and acclaimed. The correct title of the book should have been ``The World is getting Flat and fast``. He visualises the present world with the top portion flat and the bottom portion round. The flat portion has several strings hanging down on to the round the world. These are the strings of modern technology and communications. People down below are scrambling to hold these string and move on to the top flat world. The more people reach there, the more flatter it becomes because of the weight and in turn more people in the round world are able to catch the strings. He visualises that if this trend goes on and on, one day the world will become truly flat with no round portion left.

A marvellous analysis indeed.

Indians have a good news here. Mr.Friedman is highly bullish on India, more than he is on China. In his classical analysis of the two countries in his one of the NYT Columns, he compared China with a fast-moving car moving with a high speed on a super highway. But down the road, there is a road block(of democracy and labour reforms) which will hit the car sonner or later. The car cannot bypass this road block. Mr.Friedman wonders would happen when the car containing 1.2 or so Billion people hits this bumper. According to him, either it will jump through or it will break into pieces. Nothing can be said at present, he says.

He sees India as the equally fast Car which is moving on a Highway full of potholes. Once these potholes are repaired, there is superhighway ahead without having any road-block like the one Chinese Highway is having. Any such roadblocks have already been cleared by the Indian car.

Mr.Friedman is non-commital about Pakistan. To my mind, if his car-highway theory is to be applied on Pakistan, then Pakistan would be a ``Car without a road`` at present. It is stuck up in the wilderness and trying to reach the Highway. The Highway is quite far-off and the route to it is also bumpy, sticky. The car moves ahead, gets stuck up somewhere, then reverses and then moves ahead. Nobody can say for sure when the car will reach the highway, or in what shape will it reach there or whether it will reach there at all !! The car cannot be carried on the shoulders to the highway, it has to reach there on its own.

Talking about India and Pakistan, the potholes of India are also not that easy to fill or repair. They require a herculean amount of human efforts coupled with foresight ,pragmatism and most importantly honesty. The efforts, though great in their quantum, need to put into sincerely. Half-hearted or unplanned efforts will only lead to inequality which will only lead to unrest which will in turn lead to instability. India ,presently, can afford slow growth but not internal unrest and instability. Thats for sure.

Pakistan, on the other hand, needs to put its political system in place if it wants to reach the highway. Which in itself is as herculean a task as that of India`s filling of potholes. The shoulder-carrying of the car i.e. ``Musharaffism`` is not going to work. The car has to run on its own.

All in all, to my mind, it is still one generation for China, India and Pakistan before a definite conclusion can be made for them. Frankly speaking, the world is confident upon India , somewhat confident upon China but noy so confident upon Pakistan.