Raj Karega Jalsaa?

#46
“I think India should learn from Pakistan andd remove communal politics like they did.”

Agreed! What is 150 million here and there out of a billion… no one would notice…. Go ahead!

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Jangi Babu, Not nice try but no Hookka.

“But the trigger-words dont need personal communal experience. Its like hindus talk of Somnath Temple,”

The trigger words you are referring to go to the national pride thing. I am a Pakistani so Somnath and Ghori don’t matter to me but if the Indian army takes over Pakistan than words like Parshotam Das Ghansham Das motiwal would matter to me. The Indian Army General who takes over Isloo would matter to me. It is not my communal-ness but it is my national pride that got hurt by occupation. It is just a coincidence that the occupier was a Hindu. What if ghori was a Christian? So when Indians deride Ghori they are first deriding an occupier since he was Muslim, Muslims get the bad rap too.

These names are a factor in Indian politics as both Hindu and Muslim live side by side with centuries old misgivings and apprehensions but in Pakistan that factor is non existence. You are right in a way that people hear about Hindu this and Hindu that but the lack of every day experience takes the bite out of the hatred.

The make up of the Pakistani society is not communal as they are not in close proximity to a religiously adverse group. There were some old timers who bring Hindu this and Hindu that mantra and there are some that still write in Jang (newspaper) but most of them do it to scare people from an illusory enemy and a presumed Indian occupation. These are standard scare tactics and everyone uses that against enemy state or stateless if you ask Bush.

The net effect of the propaganda is that Pakistanis consider India and Indians enemy but due to a lack of personal experience, the Hindu as a religious entity is not an object of hate.

Yes! They name missiles as Ghori and Ghaznavi but that to me is jingoism to intimidate the enemy knowing that the references to Ghori and Ghaznavi inevitably would burn the Indian behind.
Let me also say this that Pakistan RSS/SS/BJP and sainaks like the followers of JI/JUI etc would try and make it a communal thing but their influence in Pakistan is not because of their communal tendencies but because of their affiliation with the afghan Jehad.

Most of them are actually the followers of Indian ideologies like Deobandi, Barelvi etc… You know that:)

Jang #45, {``Its like hindus talk of Somnath Temple, without meeting Mr Ghori in person (Salim, how do you like my balancing?)...However, I would not lump PPP/MQM/talliban/JeM/ML/CENTCOM together. Also, just because a gang is hindu does not make it evil, spell out the distinct specific evil, else all that is common among the gangs is their ``hinduness``. If that is so, why not simply say, hindus are evil ...``}

Jang, my good friend and evolving person in training, :)
Ghori, as bad as he was and may he get crabs in his beard, had nothing to do with Somnath. I think you have him confused with Ghaznavi.

Obviously your list of associations is trying to suggest that BJP is like PPP. I submit that they are more akin to MMA. After all, the raison d`etre for BJP is to advance the Hindutva doctrine. Come on, let`s identify groups by the type of people attracted to them. The GOP is where the right-wing Christian fundos congregate, and there is nothing wrong with saying
GOP/Moral Majority/700 Club/ Bob Jones U/ Right to Life.
The MQM and Tallyban are very much opposites and even you are not allowed to lump them together. :)
I did not include Congress, or CPI, or Maoists in the same group as BJP/RSS/VHP/JS/SP/SS/BD - these are all birds of the same feather.

HP #44: Good post HP. I think India should learn from Pakistan andd remove communal politics like they did.

`So the hate you talk about for Hindus and Sikhs does not exist. What exists is the enemy status of the Indian state. Now this would be a hard concept for you and many other communally inspired Indians to follow but that is the reality. The specie called Hindu does not exist in Punjab and NWFP and so the people living there have no love and hate for that specie.`

Specie is coinage, money etc. I know Hindus like money but they themselves became coins? When did that happen?

Did you mean species instead of specie, HP?

Does religion change make for a new `specie`? Are Hindus and Muslims not Homo sapiens but different species?
Say your ancesstor was a donkey as a Hindu. Did he become an Arabian horse after conversion or was the change in `specie` even more pronounced? When you lust for the Bollywood starlets, are you dreaming of beastiality then?

Amazing, even Mr. Jinnah did not know that. He just stopped short at two nations. He could learn a thing or two from the `Specie Meister` HP on Chowk. You tell us that you do not hate Indians though. Right?

HP, gussa nahin saeen, you offcourse know khalistani politics, AP/Naxal politics and so on, so i would not call you naiive ;-)

Pakistanis may not have met a single hinud, or yahud. But the trigger-words dont need personal communal experience. Its like hindus talk of Somnath Temple, without meeting Mr Ghori in person (Salim, how do you like my balancing?) With this in mind, i am asking the learned author (who is a proclaimed fly) for explanation, thats all.

salim, i have no interest in paki gangs, i know that without fouji support, they are mere trouble makers. However, I would not lump PPP/MQM/talliban/JeM/ML/CENTCOM together. Also, just because a gang is hindu does not make it evil, spell out the distinct specific evil, else all that is common among the gangs is their ``hinduness``. If that is so, why not simply say, hindus are evil like in pkistaniyat books?

“we see interacts which have a lot of slashes (BJP/SS/RSS/VHP...). the interactors are raised in an atmosphere of institutioalized hatred for hindus and have little apreciation of indian politics. for this audience,”

Now Jangi wanna be an intellectual… BJP/SS/RSS/VHP are symbols in Indian politics of extreme political ideology and represent the communal politics which is their principal political philosophy.
Indian politics is not some myth/rocket science that Pakistani don’t understand that( that is if they are interested enough.). On macro level Indian politics is just another name for corruption and it is communalism guised under democracy. Interesting part is that even the communist in India are communal. Mind you I am NOT calling all Indians communal. I am just saying that Indian politics is communal.

I doubt that most Pakistanis are even vaguely familiar with Shiv Sena’s politics. Before coming to Chowk, I just considered ShivSena as just another hate group that proliferate Indian political scene until I begun to read Jang’s post and realized that they are not just a hate group but represent the communal thinking of the majority of Indians regardless of their religion.

Some thing for you ponder: Since Pakistani were able to kill/deport/ethnic cleanse/convert (at least in communal Indian lexicon) all Hindu and Sikhs from Pakistan, the new generations in Pakistan have no communal feelings for Hindus or Sikhs.
So the hate you talk about for Hindus and Sikhs does not exist. What exists is the enemy status of the Indian state. Now this would be a hard concept for you and many other communally inspired Indians to follow but that is the reality. The specie called Hindu does not exist in Punjab and NWFP and so the people living there have no love and hate for that specie.

Hindus in Sindh are small in numbers and completely immersed in the community. Most of the Sindhis don’t even subscribe to India enemy theory so they are not anti Indian or consider Indians as enemy to worry about Hating Hindus.

Don’t just continue to create strawman arguments as Pakistan is not India and things are whole lot more different than what they are in India. stay away from your cockamamie theories of people teaching hate-hindu in Pakistan. (oh puleeese go ahead and quote those text books and K for Kaffir now(hindus are not the only Kafir in the world)).

You love or hate a body of people if they are in direct contact/clash with you or impact your every day life adversely or provide you with a reason to hate economically.

All these ingredients exist in India. Conflicts in Pakistan exist based on ethnicity and not on religion.

#33, Sir, don`t you have anything better to do than to go from thread to thread and forum to forum picking fights with me? If you have something worthwhile to say about the topic, please do so, otherwise, kindly stay away from addressing me or talking about me. Thanks

Jang #39, {``very often we see interacts which have a lot of slashes (BJP/SS/RSS/VHP...). the interactors are raised in an atmosphere of institutioalized hatred for hindus and have little apreciation of indian politics``}

Jang,
Yes, I am the originator of this BJP/VHP/RSS/JS/BD/SP/SS lumping of various nefarious right-wing Hindu gangs. You are right that many Pakis have little appreciation of Indian politics. The truth is that one can recognize evil and not be adept at the various idiosyncrasies of each diseased philosophy. It has nothing to do with hatred for Hindus or anyone else. Just like many people in India have no clear idea about the nuances associated with LeT, HM, MMA, JI, JU, Tally Ban, AlKayda, JM, SS, and so on. All we need to do is recognize that they mean to do you harm and to work for their total elimination. Do you really care about the slight differences among KKK, Aryan Nation, neo-Nazis, and other white power advocates?

Farzana,
Thank you for clarifying that your article never mentioned MQM. That connection was maliciously made by a notorious troublemaker. My point about disguising views and speaking in tongues was in reference to the article`s nature. It almost seemed as if the author assumed that all of us have that inside information, or at least a working knowledge of Mumbai politics, and the intricate associations among the various Shive Sena elements. I am glad to learn that there has been a significant downturn in Shiv Sena`s fortunes.

Shiv Sena and RSS are bunch of emaciated hijras and petty bullies who have delusions of believing themselves to be warriors of Mahabharta...........

If they are such defenders of dharma, let them go and fight in PakiSatan, Kashmir, Bdesh, etc. to defend their dharma; instead of bullying other khusras in the neighborhood.......

``The term ‘shakha’ is not to trigger any imagery; this is the coinage used by the SS. ``

thanks for the explanation, you are a master word-smith, proclaimed fly-in-the-soup, and hence some scrutiny is warranted.

shakha is not much of a sena ``coinage``, even bank branches are called shakhas, they are nothing like RSS shakhas. during early days of sena (i.e. pre babri-masjid) it was common sight to see sena goons disturbing RSS shakhas in a kind of turf tussle. sena goons would hang around the shakha and make funny cat-calls, do comical immitation marches etc.
the reason i stress this is because of the politically naiive pakistani target audience. very often we see interacts which have a lot of slashes (BJP/SS/RSS/VHP...). the interactors are raised in an atmosphere of institutioalized hatred for hindus and have little apreciation of indian politics. for this audience, shakha (for that matter even SS ..who knows..rolling eyes icon) can be a trigger word creating an imagery. in past, such dehumanising imagery has caused a lot of misery to nations like the bengalis, bosnians, yiddish and armenians. (sorry for such bhashanbazi...i should leave it to other more competent ..).

#34 by FarzanaVersey on December 19, 2005 9:52pm PT


The term ‘shakha’ is not to trigger any imagery; this is the coinage used by the SS.


Shakha is ghati for branch(jang/JG...help me out here..)...so a SS chaddi from the dadar shakha is from the dadar branch..

I agree with Salim-chauhaan, this was not a good article. It is almost like you having a conversation with yourself or someone familiar with Thackeray and Shiv Sena.

Re: # 4
i will agree with you mr.aquaris......as i visited the karachi recently......it has become more dirtier,messier,besmircher..........and that old man before mqm came into the rule was very much sincere and he did alot for the karachi and karachite.......i don`t why karachite don`t like to say thanks.....anyways my post can shift the topic to the other way so back towards topic.....

if there is no raj thakray in MQM....then i would wish to MQM would be venished from this country

well.......well.......well........the outcome which i got.....party got fight within.....now there may be many parties as we have in form of muslim league (noon) and muslim league(kaaf)they are in deep trouble.......so atlast people of mumbai and kashmire will have rest for some days,may be month,may be years or may be for their whole life either.......and i wish them best of luck for their whole life...................