The Virgin Birth

The article is totally off the mark and tries to fit and stretch the Quran based upon whim and predetermined conclusions. Why do I say that?

He says that the aya in Sura Yasin talking about pairs of everything including humans means the Jesus had a father. Not so, the verse is merely talking about gender, male and female and not about Jesus` father- that interpretation involved deception and not ``thinking``. Or the claim that the Quran gives equal status to the messengers and similar message means that their biographies were the same- Not so, illogical conclusions.

Second, ``virign birth`` is not contrary to natural laws, it is not impossible, though it is unusual. Here is a news report that you all might want to read (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/05/tech/main552408.shtml)

``Human egg cells can be duped with chemicals and electric shocks to begin growing like embryos, which are coveted as stem cell sources``

The Quran is very clear that Jesus was born without the intervention of a male, ``...how can I have a son when no man has touched me.`` is very CLEAR. Using sense in reading the Quran does NOT mean you distort it by adding things according to your morality or sense of right and wrong.

When God decides upon a matter he says ``Be and it is``- does that sound like unscientific to you or going against natural law? Not so, according to the ``Copenhagen`` approach to quantum systems, objects are ``real`` ONLY when an act of observation by an observer ``collapses the wave function`` granting the system into one or the other of its potential states- that makes God`s function into the day to day affairs of the universe, ``the BE`` a scientific fact, unless you can find me someone else who is observing everyting and collapsing their wave functions? Find me someone who is doing that universally? There can be NO other explanation.

The author tries to explain away the ``ibn Maryam`` part, which is an exception by the way, lineage is not traced by mother in that culture or in the Quran, other than for Jesus, also, there is more circumstantial evidence that Mary had no spouse, and that is found in Quran 66:10-12
[66.10] Allah sets forth an example to those who disbelieve the wife of Nuh and the wife of Lut:....[66.11] And Allah sets forth an example to those who believe the wife of Firon...:
[66.12] And Marium, the daughter of Imran,...``

Now, what is significant in these is that while giving examples of women, they are described in relation to thier husbands, ``wife of (so and so)``, however when it comes to Maryam, she is described not as wife of someone but as ``daughter of``- which is a significant exception- proving once again that she was not married.

Masadi, I agree.

The ideas are far fetched.... and relate Jewish Essene practices to the Quran. It is incoherent, trying to sound intelligent by mumbojumbling many different ideas together.

What are u trying to say, Dear Writer!

Catholic Doctrine that preserved the Bible for the THUMPERS for 1500 years before the Sale of Indulgences believes that the immaculate conception in actuality refers not to the virignal conception of the lord , Baby Jesus rather than the immaculate conception and birth of the vessel that was to concieve and give blood and sustenance to the divine blessed child of the Madonna.


Through a similar logic, You O dear writer, make a failed attempt at relating Jewish Essene Sect theosophy to Islamic practice. Through your flawed logic, Isa Ibn Maryam could have foretold the coming of a Prophet amongst the Arabs and named him Muhammad Ibn Amna..


THat would be standard Semitic practice.....


`` WHAT IS THIS TOTAL BS``

Read below, uff toba....

``Apart from the fact that in those early days, the father/mother was often known by the fame of the son/daughter as in abu/umm so and so. The modern example, of being known by other than the father could be given as Prince Charles—who? one might ask! ‘The son of Queen Elizabeth II’ or ‘Asif Zardary-- who?-The husband of Benazir Bhutto’, fits comfortably for Isa as the son of Maryam, rather than Yusuf/ Joseph the carpenter. ``

Rashid Samnakay Sahab,

Great to finally see a person of your stature and background contributing an article here.
Those who subscribe to the Tolu-e-Islam Magazine are big fans of yours. Hope you continue to contribute excellent articles such as these in the future.

On the topic of the article... it is a great tragedy that all Muslim sects, including the supposedly ``progressive`` Ahmadiyya sect, continue to ascribe to a non-scientific belief such as the virgin birth. Infact the Ahmadiya sect goes to any length to prove ``scientific evidence`` for virgin birth.

Personally I think it is rooted in the wrong turn Muslims took in 12th century under Imam Ghazali.

Dear madasi
You are right when you say that a cell can be stimulated by chemicals and electrical current but the problem lies in the fact that even if that possible ,IT WOULD GIVE RISE TO ONLY FEMALE, where do you get the male chromosome? So most probably jesus was a female

Dear madasi
You are right when you say that a cell can be stimulated by chemicals and electrical current but the problem lies in the fact that even if that possible ,IT WOULD GIVE RISE TO ONLY FEMALE, where do you get the male chromosome? So most probably jesus was a female

The immaculate conception does not refer to the birth of Christ, but to the belief that his mother, Mary, was conceived without any trace of original sin.

If the author is unable to distinguish beween the concept of ``virgin birth`` and that of the Immaculate Conception`` how much credence can we put on the rest of the article?

Re: # 5

Jessus was a woman masquerading as a Man? .... holy molly!!!

Re: # 6

So Mary was conceived without sex....... Who was Mary`s mother?

No. Mary was not conceived without sex. It is another common error to conflate original sin with sex.

And, it is commonly thought that Mary`s mother was Saint Ann.

why it is so difficult for everyone to accept that Jesus was born out of an act of cohabition between Mary and Joseph, which is quite usual for young people around, except at that time they didnt have any emergency contraceptive pills ;) ? and why do you people drag hebrew & arabic sentences dictated by schizophrenic people into something, whose happening and not happening are of no use to you? for me ... when someone would produce one i`ll believe it ... even though that would not do me any good ... but till then ... you know what I mean ;)

The message that Jesus imparted was that of compassion and forgiveness, and not for people to worry about 2000 years after his death whether he was a virgin. There is more to Jesus than his sex life.

This paragraph betrays the research capability of the witer,

``Apart from the fact that in those early days, the father/mother was often known by the fame of the son/daughter as in abu/umm so and so. The modern example, of being known by other than the father could be given as Prince Charles—who? one might ask! ‘The son of Queen Elizabeth II’ or ‘Asif Zardary-- who?-The husband of Benazir Bhutto’, fits comfortably for Isa as the son of Maryam, rather than Yusuf/ Joseph the carpenter``.

Lets see the concordance. Both Islam and Chritianity agree on the visitation of the angel and the virgin birth. In Islam there is much more reverance for Our Lady, Maryam Siddiqa than in many existing Christian splinter churches. Is it not marvelous to agree on something.
Merry Christmas
ijaz

Mantolives:

You have posted at # 3 in good faith. However, I disagree with you from another perspective.

Recently, Muslims have generally begun to challenge the Quranic verses, Ahadith and the religious interpretations thereof by our Grand Imams.

Imam Ghazali and the likes of him were knowledge specialist just like you are on Jinnah (or perhaps on history). Since I, being a Change Management person, would not like to challenge you on your area of specialization, I would expect Muslims having no specialization in religious matters not to challenge Imams. That area belongs to people who are specializing in Islamic or comparative religion, for example, or even more narrowly focusing on that very topic.

Although admittedly you are very knowledgable person, there is a tendency amongst every Tom, Dick and Harry Muslim these days to begin challenging issues relating to faith and interpretation of Scriptures and Ahadith.

Re: # 9

so what is original sin? 2000 years gone - and we still have confusions on the basics :))) ?

Rashid, Ijaz and Manto:

It is the initial verses in the Chapter of Maryam that best describe the Virgin Birth. These verses when recited by Jaffar Tayyar in front of King Najashi of Habasah, bailed the Muslim refugees out in the land of Christians.