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I agree with the main point: but most bollywood films **are** made for the (as hamidm would say) unwashed masses of india (pakistani films are just too bad to even talk about), the illiterates who just want to see fair-skinned , skimpily clad models (not `actresses) shaking their hips and tits on the screen whilst being wooed by a fair-skinned hero. the recent trend in indian films for showing flashy cars, desginer suits etc and dialogue in hinglish is even more pathetic.
even the innovative films which have done well such as Black have been plagiarised from Hollywood scripts.

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In India there is a tiny serious cinema but it is so commercially unviable that it might as well not exist. why can`t we have an indian bertolucci? a pakistani kubrick?
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this is a symptom of the cultural sterility in the arts which afflicts our societies. india might produce could technicians, IT professionals etc., but where are its great artists, novelists (living in india--those who live in the west don`t count), playwrights? pakistan is 10 times worse.

the root of this is a blind aping of the latest trend in america and underdeveloped societies.
raj kapoor at least tried to be different at some times in his career.
but 99.9% of today`s films are worthless trash.

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iran--despite being ruled by what many would consider a repressive regime--has won more meaningful awards at film festivals around the world in the past 10 years than india and pakistan have combined in their film history. which makes me wonder--perhaps there is something about the desi mentality?

god knows!

anyway, i`m off to watch syriana--the new film about the oil-industry.

What a load of crap of Sholay’s proportions. The writer has got it completely wrong. Indian Movies are not meant to be big spy plots to unravel the mystery of the universe. They are an escape from the reality, which, evidently, appeals to the Indian movie going public. So what’s so wrong about that? The movies generally have some storyline, some scenic portions, some fights, and some opera. The moviemakers in India have never intended to compete with Hollywood or European cinema. They are not in the business of competing, but in a business of keeping a huge sector employed by provide jobs, and to bring in dollars. Indian movies are more popular in Israel than they are in Dubai. And it is only going to get better.

The only change that I feel the public is cheated is the music part. With the exception of a few good musical scores (Devdas, Taal, A.R. Rahman, a handful other), the music and songs are not as good as earlier generation of Bollywood maestros.

The saddest part is that those wanting to see changes in the Bollywood movies would never in a million years consider the feelings of hundreds of millions of moviegoers. Go ask a Riksha puller in Kolkata what kind of movie he would like to see? A guy in a flashy car with a chick with tits, or a poor 60 years old chacha pulling a Ricksha in the streets of Kolkata?

ali Rizvi

your article potrays what you think but does not portray what a rickshaw wala or a labourer who works for the whole day under the killing sunshine thinks. i hope after a ling treachrous he would not like to watch a movie based on themes like beautiful mind etc.

come to the public and then judge what Desiwoood is producing for whom.

ghulam haider

I cannot comment about Pakistani cinema, I`ve never seen any Pakistani film.
However Indian cinema is not restricted to Bollywood productions. There is a fairly strong regional cinema in India. I can point out good films being made in the states of Kerala, Bengal, Orissa, Karnataka , Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra etc..... And that`s just a few.

Even Bollywood does produce decent movies. Anybody watching movies, like ``Let`s Talk``, ``My wife`s murder`` , ``Hazaaron Qwaishein Aisi``, Makdee, etc would say that the love triangle or musical is not the only thing that is being turned out. However cinema is still entertainment for most people and producers will provide the muck that people want. How many people remember Shah Rukh Khan in Maya Memsaab?

Besides Hollywood should hardly be the basis of comparison with good cinema. Most hits in Hollywood are equally trashy movies. Having no songs doesn`t make a movie good. Hits like ``Alien v/s Predator`` etc are hardly thought provoking. Even last years critically acclaimed ``Sideways`` (though an Indie movie) was hardly in the region of any of Rohmer`s or Kieslowski`s cinemas.
By the way I thought ``A beautiful mind`` did not even do justice to Sylvia Nasar`s book. It glossed over the complexities quite nicely.

Re: Interact 1
India has lots of novelists in it`s regional languages. I could name several however most of them would be unknown to people here. It is a good thing that Penguin India is bringing out translations of some of these novels. Unfortunately sometimes the translations are just not good enough to bring the original to life.

Kulharee on music:
Again I feel that sometimes regional cinema has better music to offer. After all Rehman came on the scene composing music for Tamil and Malayalam films (his father was Salil Chowdhury`s assistant when SC composed for Malayalam movies) and I`m still convinced that there people as good as he is over there. But his music is more palatable to the masses. There are other composers in the south with a greater classical influence. They are popular regionally. Bollywood cinema may not yet be ready for that sort of music.

Re: # 5

Warrier Sahib. I am not very familiar with local and regional Cinema of India other than Satyajit Roy’s work (which is just awesome). Like most of my generation Pakistanis, I grew up watching Bollywood and I love it to death. Musically, I have a lot higher standards, as the movie music is a butchery of both Hindustani and Carnatic. To me personally, Hindi Movies and Music are two distinct disciplines. Personally, I would never watch a Hindi Movie for Music alone (with only a few exceptions). Give me a Malkouns anyday (but at midnight).

I too would not watch a Hindi film for the music. But then to me there are composers like Madan Mohan, Salil Chowdhury, Sajjad Hussain who have composed some music that begs listening to more than once. These are my favourite music directors in Hindi film music. It is popular music but it did require some amount of talent. It is not easy to compose good music for films. Even Ravi Shankar has tried his hand at film music and so did Ali Akbar Khan, I think Vilayat Khan did a movie called Kadambari.
I would listen to a Malkouns or a Hindolam any time if performed by a good artiste. Actually I`ve been looking for a good Puria Kalyan. I like the Sandhya Prakash ragas.

Again if you get a chance see films by Adoor Gopalakrishnan, Mrinal Sen, some Marathi films made by Amol Palekar....

Kulharee Sahib
I asked this on your column on Jazz. At least I assume that was you. Is it possible to get ``The Excellence of Farida Khanum`` anywhere in the US? I haven`t seen in anywhere in India? I`m not even sure if a CD is available anywhere?

Re: # 8

Warrier Sahib, I am sorry I am not sure about Farida Khanum’s CD, but I will be going to Pakistan this summer and I will bring one for you. I will find from my bro in Lahore if he can send me one. I will let you know.

Re: # 9
Thank you... I shall be indebted. Talking about Raga`s brought me the memories of one evening in Bombay. Some of us were hanging around outside the canteen in college after the library had shut down at around 10 pm and somebody put the radio on to All India Radio B. I don`t remember who the artiste was but we heard the begining of a rendition of Bageshri on the sitar. The alaap was longer than is normal for a radio concert and it was beautiful. Nobody left till the program ended at 11pm. I think the accompaniment was in rupak. Walking home after that it seemed everything was all right with the world.
That was more than 20 years ago.

{``(Yes it is logical to assume that Bollywood and Lollywood have no differences. They are the same exact thing! Hence we will now refer to both lowly cinema industries as Desiwood. ``}

Rizvi Sahib,
When Lollywood attains the same technical standards and acting ability of Bollywood, then let`s call them the same exact thing. Meanwhile, it does no good to diminish the accomplishments of thousands of Indians who work hard to produce top notch entertainment for the masses. If Hollywood is a good standard for motion pictures, then I am sorry to note that good movies are far and few in between - the rest of them are boring, depressing, and mercifully shorter than their Indian versions. I watch Bollywood movies for their excellent songs and beautiful dances. Of course, when one watches pirated copies of Indian movies on the nine hundredth copy on a circa 1980s VCR in Pakistan, every Bollywood movie looks exactly like a Lollywood movie. :)

I want to know is who came up with this Wood suffix for movie industries roughly 8000 miles from California? Hello… do we suffer from Wood complex of some sort? Call it what it is – Bombay Movie and Music Industry (or BoMMI).

Warrier Ji. Bhageshiri is a wonderful Raga, best enjoyed after the sunset. My Guruji tells me that a lot of research was done when ragas were composed, they must be performed at certain time. E.g., Malkons wont affect you if listened at noon. You mentioned Salil Chaudhari Ji – he composed in Bhageshiri “aa ja rey, main tu kab say khari es paar….. (Madhumati – one of my all time favorite!).

Kulharee
The Bollywood term came from a Bombay film magazine called Stardust. If I remember right Shoba De used to write a column called Neeta`s natter. She coined the term Bollywood in this column. This is as accurate as I can guess. We used to read this magazine sometimes towards the end of our school years. It was the spicy mag (you could call it trashy) as opposed to the more staid Filmfare. Somebody could verify this I think.
Yes I know about the time basis of the Ragas. To some extent you are also enmeshed in it by visual scenes. Before I started understanding Indian classical music most of my exposure to it was from film songs. To this day I cannot listen to Bhoopali (Mohanam) without seeing the birds fly back to their nests with the setting sun because when I first heard ``Jyoti kalash chalke`` by Lata Mangeshkar it was in the evening standing out on the balcony of my house. I was later told it was actually Desh Kar and not Bhoop even though the swaras are the same. Other people claim it is Bhoop.
I don`t have any classical training myself so I`m indebted to our film songs for exposing me to our classical music both Hindustani and Carnatic. I learnt most of the stuff myself picking out the notes on my guitar with a lot of help from a radio program that used to be there on radio. It was called Sangeet Sarita. Used to be broadcast on Vividh Bharati in the mornings at 7:30 AM.
Yes Madhumati was great. Salil Chowdhury`s compositions are sometimes so complex. Even a simple lori like
``Aaja ri aa, nindiya tu aa....`` in ``Do Bhiga Zameen (Bimal Roy) is so haunting. His scale changes are very interesting. How do you like Madan Mohan`s composition ``Yun hasraton ke dagh.....`` in Adalat. The tabla caught my fancy in that song (AM radio in the 70`s with very low fidelity is not the best way to listen to music).

while I agree that most of the Hindi Films( I hate to use the word `Bollywood`) are trashy ,masala films I feel there are always a few exceptions like Lagaan,Dil Chahata Hai and more recently Rang De Basanti(I am not even mentioning the old ones)

I dont feel Holllywood should be seen as a benchmark for making movies as most of them are average at the best inspite of all their technical wizardry and special effects ,when it comes to content and depth they fall miserably.

As far as songs and dances are concerned ,they have always been a part of storytelling in our folk culture and there is nothing wrong in using songs and dance in the narrative if it suites the situation of the movie.

Lastly I would like to mention a change that has been going around several years with the advent of multiplexes.The result has been the segmentation of audiences ,because of which one can make a movie that may not cater to all audiences ,but be commercially viable as well( for example Page 3,Hazaroo kwaishe aisee,and recently Being Cyrus).This greatly improves the quality and content of a movie and give these movie a theme.

Hi kulharee and swarrier,
There is an interesting thing about certain songs by certain music directors (especially older films)..where the seeds of one song are to be found in another song.

The one you mentioned from madhumati...``aa ja rey, main tu kab say khari es paar..``
has a ``tukda`` or musical interlude on the mandolins...which is actually the precursor to another famous song..``ghadi gfadi mera dil dhadake.. ...aaj milan ki bela mein...`` by a lata.

The same is found to be the case in a sad and captivating ``monsoon`` based song..fits dark evenings like hell..from ``Hanste Zakhm``.
The film is a treasure trove of beautifully crafted mood songs.
(The best being the two speed one by mohammd rafi ``tum jo mil gaye ho ..to ye lagata hai..ki jahan..mila gaya.)
The song is ``Aaj socha to aansoo bhar aaye...Muddatein ho gayee muskuraye..`` this song has a rather striking interlude on the electric organ, which is the starting point of ``tum jo mil gaye ho``!

Shankar jaikishen had many such songs one based on a tukda from another older song.
Have you guys ever noticed?

Last but NOT the least, why doesnt one start a thread on the beautiful clasical ragas of the subcontinent?
Indeed many gazals have been fitted into ``bandishes`` based on popular ragas like ``Lalat / Lalit`` and shivranjani and Kirvani. (Yaad na jaye beetay dinon ki..from Dil ek mandir).
Bahadur shah zafar`s compositions have been used in films..any take on that Kulharee?
[Na kisee ki aankh ka noor hoon]
Jayen

Re: # 15

Jay… That’s very true. The older generation of composers many a times composed pieces before the songs were even written. And the pairs (Laxmi Kant Pyaraelal w/Anand Bakhsi; Madan Mohan w/Rajindar Krishan; Naushad w/Shakil; R.D w/ Sultanpuri; and so on) and many a times certain parts of the music were borrowed from one song to the other, because the songwriter and music composer were so intimately involved with one another. I think the trend continues even today with the new generation of Music composers like A.R. Rehman. I am not very current with Indian music, as I am only into the hardcore classical stuff, mainly Tabla, but I can never get enough of the old Indian movie songs.