unflinching idealism ... since 1997 archivessitemapabouthelpfeedback
where paths intersect
  • Home
  • InFocus
  • Themes
  • Columns
  • Articles
  • Fiction
  • iLogs
  • Gallery
  • Unplugged
  • Writers
  • Interactors
  • Tags
Sign in | Join Chowk
web chowk
  • Article
  • Interact
  • read writer comments
  • add to favorites
  • get rss feeds
  • print
  • email this link

A Muslim Pope?

Ras Siddiqui December 23, 2005

Latest comments   flat   threaded   latest   oldest   all
listing 224-240   10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

#640 Posted by Behram1 on January 2, 2006 5:50:18 pm

For those interactors hyperventilating about economic union with India, here is a letter to the editor on how regular Indians feel about Pakistan.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 01 03 story_3-1-2006_pg3_7

Watershed year

Sir: I am convinced that 2006 will be a watershed year in the relationships between India and Pakistan. I do not know however whether it would turn out to be good, bad or really ugly. India would like to help Pakistan in its efforts for economic and social development, provided Pakistan gives up its confrontational attitude towards it. Despite having a million skilled and qualified personnel in information and software industries ? likely to increase to about two million by 2010 ? India faces a shortage of manpower. Indian companies are therefore forced to outsource. Currently about 67 countries are benefiting from this. Why should Pakistan deprive itself of the opportunity? But Indian government is under pressure from public opinion to seriously consider limiting relations with Pakistan to minimum diplomatic requirements.

In the end the relationship between India and Pakistan will be defined largely by Pakistan’s attitude.
VIPUL THAKORE
London



And that is excatly what I have been promoting from this side of the border.

Respectfully submitted,

reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#639 Posted by rsridhar on January 2, 2006 5:45:52 pm
re: Salim`s post
(Punjabi bhangRa, which, along with Yoga, is the future of keeping the subcontinent in good shape..)
ROTFL!!
Sridhar
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#638 Posted by rsridhar on January 2, 2006 5:43:43 pm
re:#628 by Salim_Chauhan
Salimbhai,
Even you must know that a political union is an impossibility. Can the 2 nations at least form an economic freemarket, thereby reaping a rich harvest of fast economic growth (Pak has more to benefit from the huge Indian market than India).
Following an economic union, slow political normalization (as Ras said in an earlier post) should be attempted. These may include:
1. Putting visas on a fast track
2. Visa-free entry for academics, journalists, students on cultural exchage visits etc
3. Opening up admissions to each other`s universities. For eg, Pakis should be able to compete in IITs, medical entrance exams in India, vice versa. This will have a salutary effect on normalization process
4. Allow newspapers, periodicals (at least the ones known for impartial coverage; i am not talking the vernacular papers here) free access across the border
You may add many more to the above list but even above is a big deal. The suspicion, hatred is so much that the task is not going to be easy.
Sridhar
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#637 Posted by rsridhar on January 2, 2006 5:35:06 pm
re:#630 by upman7626
Welcome to Chowk.
good post.
Look forward to hearing more from you, especially on the subject of Syrian Christians, Arundhati Roy etc etc.
Nice to know there is someone still in India who likes Gandhi.
Saw a hindi movie (not your regular Bollywood flick; this one was dealing with a serious subject) called ``Mainey Gandhi ko nahin mara`` with some good acting by Anupam kher. The movie ends with a reproach to Indians for having forgotten the message of the Mahatma. A good movie to watch if one likes serious kind of stuff.
Sridhar
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#636 Posted by rsridhar on January 2, 2006 5:15:05 pm
re: Manto`s post
(As for your optimism about us Pakistanis clamouring for reunification- it won`t have happen in 10 000 years...)
The big question is if Pak will last another 20 years.
Only time will tell.
Sridhar
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#636 Posted by Behram1 on January 2, 2006 5:15:04 pm

For your reading pleasure




And especially for Ahmed Madani Sahib, the Mother Jones magazine is an established liberal magazine for several decades.

By reading this piece, we can at least see what masadi has be trying to articulate regarding US elite, etc.

It is obvious that President Dwight D. Eisenhower was the one who started promoting with Said Ramadan, who somehow befriended Maulana Moudodi of the JI.....

This article was really an eye opener for me. To read the complete text of this article, you will have to get a paper copy from your local bookstore.




http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2006/01/holy_warrior.html

Cold War, Holy Warrior

In the fall of 1953, the Oval Office was the stage for a peculiar encounter between President Dwight D. Eisenhower and a young Middle-Eastern firebrand. In the muted black-and-white photograph recording the event, the grandfatherly, balding Ike, then 62, stands gray-suited, erect, his elbows bent and his fists clenched as if to add muscle to some forceful point. To his left is an olive-skinned Egyptian in a dark suit with a neatly trimmed beard and closely cropped hair, clutching a sheaf of papers behind his back, staring intently at the president. He is just 27 years old, but he already has more than a decade of experience deep inside the violent and passionate world of militant Islam, from Cairo to Amman to Karachi. Alongside him are members of a delegation of scholars, mullahs, and activists from India, Syria, Yemen, Jordan, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia, some dressed in suits, others wearing robes and shawls.

The president’s visitor that September day was Said Ramadan, a key official and ideologue of a secretive, underground fraternity of Islamic fundamentalists known as the Muslim Brotherhood. As he stood at the president’s side, Ramadan appeared respectable, a welcome guest if not a fellow statesman.

Officially, Ramadan was in the United States to attend a colloquium on Islamic culture at Princeton University, cosponsored by the Library of Congress. It was an august event, held with much pomp and circumstance in Princeton’s Nassau Hall. Delegates sat neatly arrayed in stiff-backed pews in the high-ceilinged Faculty Room and attended lavish luncheons, receptions, and garden parties in the shade of bright fall foliage.

According to the published proceedings, the conference was the fortuitous result of the fact that a number of celebrated personages from the Middle East were visiting the country. “During the summer of 1953 there happened to be an unusually large number of distinguished Muslim scholars in the United States,” the document notes. But the participants didn’t just “happen” to have crossed the Atlantic. The colloquium was organized by the U.S. government, which funded it, tapped participants it considered useful or promising, and bundled them off to New Jersey. Conference organizers had visited Cairo, Bahrain, Baghdad, Beirut, New Delhi, and other cities to scout for participants. Footing the bill—to the tune of $25,000, plus additional expenses for transporting attendees from the Middle East—was the International Information Administration (IIA), a branch of the State Department that had its roots in the U.S. intelligence community; supplementary funding was sought from U.S. airlines and from Aramco, the U.S. oil consortium in Saudi Arabia. Like many of the participants, Ramadan, a hard-edged ideologue and not a scholar, was visiting the conference as an all-expenses-paid guest.

A now-declassified IIA document labeled “Confidential—Security Information” sums up the purpose of the project: “On the surface, the conference looks like an exercise in pure learning. This in effect is the impression desired.” The true goal, the memo notes, was to “bring together persons exerting great influence in formulating Muslim opinion in fields such as education, science, law and philosophy and inevitably, therefore, on politics…. Among the various results expected from the colloquium are the impetus and direction that may be given to the Renaissance movement within Islam itself.” At the time, the United States was just beginning to feel its way around the Middle East, and American orientalists and academics were debating the extent to which political Islam might serve as a tool for American influence in the region.

For an organization established as a secret society, with a paramilitary arm that was responsible for assassinations and violence, to be characterized as a harbinger of a rebirth of Islam may seem odd. But such a view was entirely in character with U.S. policy at a time when virtually anyone who opposed communism was viewed as a potential ally. Whenever I interviewed CIA and State Department officials who served in the Middle East between World War II and the fall of the Soviet Union, they would repeat, almost like a catechism, that Islam was seen as a barrier both to Soviet expansion and to the spread of Marxist ideology among the masses. “We thought of Islam as a counterweight to communism,” says Talcott Seelye, an American diplomat who, while serving in Jordan in the early 1950s, paid a visit to Said Ramadan. “We saw it as a moderate force, and a positive one.” Indeed, adds Hermann Eilts, another veteran U.S. diplomat who was stationed in Saudi Arabia in the late ’40s, American officials in Cairo had “regular meetings” with Ramadan’s then-boss, Muslim Brotherhood leader Hassan al-Banna, “and found him perfectly empathetic.”

Over the four decades after Ramadan’s visit to the Oval Office, the Muslim Brotherhood would become the organizational sponsor for generation after generation of Islamist groups from Saudi Arabia to Syria, Geneva to Lahore—and Ramadan, its chief international organizer, would turn up, Zeliglike, as an operative in virtually every manifestation of radical political Islam. The hardcore Islamists of Pakistan (see “Among the Allies,” page 44), whose acolytes created the Taliban in Afghanistan and who have provided succor to Al Qaeda since the 1990s, modeled their organization on the Brotherhood. The regime of the ayatollahs in Iran grew out of a secret society called the Devotees of Islam, a Brotherhood affiliate whose leader in the 1950s was the mentor of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Hamas, the Palestinian terrorist organization, began as an official branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. The radical-right Egyptian Islamic Jihad and allied groups, whose members assassinated President Anwar Sadat of Egypt in 1981 and which merged with Osama bin Laden’s Al Qaeda in the 1990s, grew out of the Brotherhood in the 1970s. And some of the Afghan leaders who spearheaded the anti-Soviet jihad that was run by the CIA in the 1980s, and who helped bin Laden build the network of “Arab Afghans” that was Al Qaeda’s forerunner, were Brotherhood members.

It’s no exaggeration to say that Ramadan is the ideological grandfather of Osama bin Laden. But Ramadan, the Muslim Brotherhood, and their Islamist allies might never have been able to plant the seeds that sprouted into Al Qaeda had they not been treated as U.S. allies during the Cold War and had they not received both overt and covert support from Washington; Ramadan himself, documents suggest, was recruited as an asset by the CIA.

The United States and its partners in nations like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan didn’t create radical political Islam, whose theological forebears in the Middle East can be traced back to the eighth century. But consider, for a moment, an analogy with a movement closer to home. In America, Christian fundamentalism dates back at least to the 1840s, and right-wing evangelicals were an inchoate force throughout the 20th century. Yet until the emergence of the Moral Majority, the Christian Coalition, and such leaders as Jerry Falwell, Tim LaHaye, and Pat Robertson in the late 1970s, the religious right had no true political leaders and very little real-world impact. Similarly, the Islamic right did not arise as a true political movement until the emergence of Banna, Ramadan, and their co-thinkers. By tolerating, and in some cases aiding, the development of these early activists, the United States helped give radical Islamism the structure and leadership that turned it into a global political hurricane.




With all the love and respect for my beloved Pakistan,

I respectfully submit,


reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#635 Posted by KaalChakra on January 2, 2006 4:34:28 pm
Since Anil ji has honored me by mentioning my name, I would just say that many many Indians wish nothing but the very best for both Salim bhai and Yasser.

Nationalism has always had my support. On the other hand, I have been brought up in a tradition that mercilessly hammers into one`s head the ideal of unity in diversity, until that ideal is no more a mere platitude. It becomes one`s creed.

Whether our common future unfolds as Salim bhai would like, or as my friend Yasser would like, if we are able to achieve a part of what you two aspire for, we would all be better off than we are today.

reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#634 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2006 3:33:27 pm
Anil, #633 {``atleast I get the impression that younger Pakistani intellectuals are living in the past more than the younger Indians. I may be wrong, but over a period of time it is bound to change and together they will find the solution for the future.
I have faith and hope, therefore, undoing partition is a bad idea.``}

Anil,
Happy New Year to you and your family. You and I share the same goals and aspirations for our people. How we get there is not as important as getting there, as long as it happens with peace and freedom. The future you described is indeed upon us. I can see how many young Indians are preoccupied with improving their lives. I am sure that Pakistani youth will follow suit. I just want to accelerate the process. Call me impatient. Why reinvent the wheel? If Pakistanis can learn to copy & paste on Chowk, they can certainly recognize how and why the gains are being made by Indians - tolerance, use of English, elevating religion to a personal concern, allowing people to form their own views, genuine democracy, rendering provincialism irrelevant, and rewarding those who excel.

Undoing partition would be a symbolic and powerful gesture in getting rid of the cursed legacy of the past. We could all admit the mistakes made in the name of religion and vow never to do it again. Anyway, as long as we get there. Thanks,
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#633 Posted by anil on January 2, 2006 3:17:12 pm
Salim Sahib:

I admire your views as much as I admire Yasser, and Kaalchakra`s views. To look for future`s starting point in the past is waste of creative enegery. The startting for the future can only be from the present. Many bad things have happend in South Asia due to India and Pakistan confrontation. However, many great things have happened in the world, despite this enimosity. There is a strong and enlightened yet very proud of being Indian or Pakistani has emerged. The life and time of your grandfather and my father were more dogmatic, religion played important part, education was limited to elite, global access was minimal, technology had hardly touched individuals (today villagers have cell phones, and TV etc.). The knowledge base to look for solutions, was solely based on the past history or looking upto the British. None of this is the case now. Why would you not let the younger generation find their own solutions, rather than waste energy and resource to undo the past. Media and communication empowers individuals in such a big way that institutionalized religions feel threatend. Could Mukhtaran Mai`s grandmother have imagined that if her grand daughter was gang-raped, then the news will be all over the world, and she will be invited in America to receive award?

Do you think anyone can stop, when in the next few years, the satellite TV starts beaming not only entertainment but also health and medical care information, and even Harvard classses to anyone who wants to listen and benefit. The media will be the real missionary which will have greater and faster impact than the human missionaries had. This time message will be different, no doubt religious bigots will use it too, but when some one sees the religious channel and misses out, while his next door neighbor see eductional and health channel and is more prosperous. The choice will be his to make.

The lives will be impacted, and when the global trade becomes more efficient, as goods can be shipped to London from Sialkot faster than say Karachi, and money through electronic fund transfer can be recieved even before the goods reached. The choices will multiply. For example, if world`s soccer ball market is accessible to the maker in Sialkot, the profits will flow into Sialkot`s economy rather than in the hands of the middlemen sitting in Dubai or London. These are inevitabilities and will happen. Just great things happened in the world while Indian - Pakistan were fuming and fighting over Indian Kashmir, as Paksitan already has its Kashmir. In such scenario, the institutionalized religions will play smaller and smaller role.

Right now what options are there for young and bright in Lahore and Karachi. I have seen and talked to the young and bright in Bangalore, Delhi and Mumbai. They do not want to settle down in the U.S., and are indeed have their own small and growing global business. Their religion is their talent and their determination to succeed. Will they do business with Pakistan, of course.

May be Chowk is not a representative, but looking at interactions here, atleast I get the impression that younger Pakistani intellectuals are living in the past more than the younger Indians. I may be wrong, but over a period of time it is bound to change and together they will find the solution for the future.

I have faith and hope, therefore, undoing partition is a bad idea.

Anil Kapuria
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#632 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2006 3:11:05 pm
Ranjit #629, {``Who fought against the British to save the Mughals? The hindus did in 1857. If communal relations were that bad, all hindus would line up with the british. It never happened. In fact, the hindus fought the british in 1857. ...Pakistanis are still as desi as Indians if not more in food habits, language, cultural interests. Today Shahrukh Khan and Bollywood are as important to Pakistan as Islam itself. That is a real case of blood is thicker than water. :}

Ranjit,
Very good - spoken from the heart and expressed so eloquently. Yes, 1857 should refute any notion of TNT, Hindus vs Muslim - destined to fight. Nana Sahib, Tantia Tope, JhaNsi ki Rani, and before them Tipu Sultan, Sirajuddaulah, Hyder Ali are all testament to this common heritage, common goals, and common adversity. People should watch Amir Khan in his excellent role as Mangal Pandey to understand the real Indians.

Ranjit, my friend, what we need to do is to take back the facade of religion from the hate-mongers. Right-wing Hindutva fanatics and Jihadist Mullah terrorists have usurped center stage when it comes to Hinduism and Islam. Deny them this refuge, this excuse, this strength that they misuse to attract the worst in our midst and to spread hatred, violence, and death. They have no agenda other than pointing out who is bad, who should be ostracized, who should be killed, who should be burned, and who should rule over everyone. The only change these losers can claim is their expensive and uncanny ability to get street names, city names, and names of parks and zoos changed to those of their own heroes. Reason, logic, and love always wins in the end.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#631 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2006 3:00:30 pm
Upman7627, {``I have been reading several of your posts and feel that warm glow of a united Hindustan myself, although I have always been and remain a skeptic. ...My mother tongue is Malayalam- but I understand the fine nuances of Ghalib’s poetry, speak Bengali and a mongrel-ish Hindi/Urdu fluently, appreciate the understated-ness of serious Bengali cinema and the buffoonery of Bollywood, and can even jive to bhangra. I love the noisiness of Indian politics- the ideological as well as the power politicians, the rise and rise of the un-scrubbed (Laloo and such)- to the discomfort of the middle classes, and the institutions that continue to exist among all this clutter. And I have always known that partition was a tremendous mistake, just because I have known how India has treated me. Yes I have been disappointed by the BJP’s rise and the fascination it still holds for some middle class Hindus. And nothing has affected my notion of India so negatively as the post-Godhra riots- esp the Gujarati Hindu silence on it. But I am aware these are essentially aberrations and of the corrective forces at play in India, and will continue to hope.``}

Upman7626, Thanks,
First of all Upman Sahib, a Happy New Year to your and your family. I welcome this opportunity to share this dream of a united Hindustan with you and others - Ranjit, Anil, Bolta_Aina, jut to name a few. Even Ras is a closet reunification aspirant, albeit gradually and one step at a time. :)

I love the way you described the kaleidoscope of India through your own mixed salad of Malayalam, Ghalib, Bengali and Bollywood cinema and the best unifier of all - Punjabi bhangRa, which, along with Yoga, is the future of keeping the subcontinent in good shape. :)

One can`t help but root for Gandhiji, with his self-described discomfort in England, his roller coaster episode in South Africa, and the greatest thing that happened in his life - being thrown off the train by white supremacists down there. The great man rose, turning his every weakness into strength for ALL Indians, presenting his own spirituality as a personal aspect of life, and demanding that the British leave India when they were solidly in control. The little man must have been seen as a real joke to the sophisticated, advanced, westernized Indians and their British gods. If you are human, if you stand up for the underdog, if you like to bring down the self-ordained rulers of the world, Gandhiji represents all of us - he just had the guts to get it done. May Allah give him His everlasting divine company. Some Muslim poet wrote about Gandhiji:

Jagao na baapu ko neend aagai he
Jagao na baapu ko neend aagai he
Husain ibn Haider ki jurrat bhi isme
Isa ibn Maryam ki narmi bhi isme
Muhammad ke dil ke harrart bhi isme
Jagao na baapu ko neend aagai he
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#630 Posted by upman7626 on January 2, 2006 2:36:38 pm
Dear Salim

I have been reading several of your posts and feel that warm glow of a united Hindustan myself, although I have always been and remain a skeptic. I am not the RSS type Akand Bharati, but when a Pakistani himself articulates such an idea, the previously mentioned luminescence cannot be helped ; ) In fact I am not a Hindu myself- I am a minority among a minority in India – a Syrian Christian from the state of Kerala (the arundhati roy kind, if u know her)…..but India has always been more than fair to me, and as I know personally, to every minority within her. Yes there has always been inefficiency, corruption –but that too has been fair and democratic- everyone got an equal share.

And India has connected me to unparalleled diversity, cultures so varied and rich, which I would not have known existed, had not the arbitrary nation state (that Manto so derides) called India existed. My mother tongue is Malayalam- but I understand the fine nuances of Ghalib’s poetry, speak Bengali and a mongrel-ish Hindi/Urdu fluently, appreciate the understated-ness of serious Bengali cinema and the buffoonery of Bollywood, and can even jive to bhangra. I love the noisiness of Indian politics- the ideological as well as the power politicians, the rise and rise of the un-scrubbed (Laloo and such)- to the discomfort of the middle classes, and the institutions that continue to exist among all this clutter. And I have always known that partition was a tremendous mistake, just because I have known how India has treated me. Yes I have been disappointed by the BJP’s rise and the fascination it still holds for some middle class Hindus. And nothing has affected my notion of India so negatively as the post-Godhra riots- esp the Gujarati Hindu silence on it. But I am aware these are essentially aberrations and of the corrective forces at play in India, and will continue to hope.

India after all is a civilization, the true melting pot, where cultures have blended and enriched each other, whatever our own specific identitities. And yes I am a very big admirer of Gandhi, even his supposed eccentrities, and know you have to be at a certain place to appreciate him. I became interested in Gandhi because the idea of India intrigued me. I now know that Gandhi is the true embodiment of India - its spirituality and non-violence, its essential inclusiveness and its constant struggle with itself, and indeed its ability to lead the world with ideas. If you have an agenda, Gandhi and his life is the easiest to rip apart, as some here have perfected. But lets not debate that now because Manto and Sarwari, with their transparently dishonest intentions, will come up with their shallow quotes and breathless semantics to denigrate him.

Best wishes for the new year!
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#629 Posted by Ranjit on January 2, 2006 1:21:01 pm
Re:ahmedmadani#625

You wrote,``Indian Pakistanies are destined to fight whether you call them south asiians``

Sirjee, if this is the case, how come we never saw Indians and Pakistanis fighting before 1947? I mean the people living in the territory of Pakistan and the people living in the territory of India. How many times did Punjoos/Sindhis attack UP and UP attack Punjoos/Sindhis? Zero. Hindus and muslims lived with each other for 1000 years? How many crusades and jihads occured in India? Zero. Who fought against the British to save the Mughals? The hindus did in 1857. If communal relations were that bad, all hindus would line up with the british. It never happened. In fact, the hindus fought the british in 1857.

I have no problems if you want to adopt Arabic and move towards Central Asia/Middle-east. If it comes naturally to you, why not? If you want to do it just to get away from India, it will fail. For your information, Pakistan has been trying to do that for 60 years by placing an iron curtain against India and launching cradle to grave brainwashing of Pakistanis in home/school/work life. The result is still a big fat zero. Pakistanis are still as desi as Indians if not more in food habits, language, cultural interests. Today Shahrukh Khan and Bollywood are as important to Pakistan as Islam itself. That is a real case of blood is thicker than water.

Your Pakistani establishment has tried every trick in the book to make Pakistanis move away from India, to the extent that now people like manto use filthy language against Gandhi. However, all such desperate moves to tear away from India have failed!!
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#628 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2006 1:09:49 pm
#623, Ras {``The NEW SOUTH ASIA will be one where any ordinary
Indian or Pakistani will drive or ride to the border and with identification visit
the other side for upto 30 days with minimal hassle (as between the U.S.
and Canada befor 9/11.``}

Siddiqui Sahib, naya saal bohot bohot mubarak.
Let`s stop trying to get somewhat pregnant. :) Let`s go all the way with reunification. None of this hesitance, pre-nupts, and mistrust. Who cares about a 30 day pass? I say - if a Sikh wants to spend the rest of his days in Nankana Sahib, what`s wrong with that. Maybe he will spread some of Guru Nanak`s wisdom in the neighborhood. You are on the right track. If you want to go step by step, like a cautious bride go ahead. First the bra ... then the ...
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#627 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2006 1:04:28 pm
#625, ahmadmadani {``As a long term pakistan should adopt Arabic language then Indians will not understand us and we will not understand them. Trade is always at loss to us we get shafted. There should be Iran-Pak pipe line no india pipe line. Why feed snake when it is going to bite.
He has to deal with sindhi, balochi retards and contain them but he is trying best. Musharaff is today what was Quaid in 1947. He is result oriented and all should support the construction of dam and save sindh from suicide. Let us hope he is successful.
Pakistan Zindabad``}

Madani Sahib, Naya saal mubarak ho,
Why didn`t you speak up much earlier? Here I was discussing with Manto, HP, and that sugarcane daddy, Mr. Darius himself, the King of all Persians, Mr. Behram Rustamji Sohrabnijad, and getting nowhere. Thanks for clearing up every single issue. Mushy is Jinnah, Arabic is the answer, and KalaDam will turn Karachi into Amsterdam. Inshallah, Ma`shallah, and Pakistan Jindabad. God speed. Yes, tell them Kaffir Hindus to make their own bloody gas and not steal from gas of momin Persians. What`s the matter with them Indians, too many burgers and not enought idli dosas?

And, yes, if we all speak Arabic, them Indians won`t know what hit them. Imagine Arjun tuning into ARDY or GEO and hearing the ``Maa alla Qaala Filfalala`` stuff and not understanding. It will drive him crazy. Speaking Arabic and nothing but Arabic will drive our IQ down, lower our productivity, drive us out of our minds. But it`s worth it. At least the Indians will get a headache. Our policy never changes. Anything for the Indians.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#626 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 2, 2006 12:53:59 pm
HP #621 and #625 {``MQM is working on this issue and sooner or later they will work with Sindhi on this issue. Until Sindhis are satisfied, Biharis are not coming to Sindh and that is the end of it.
All Pakistan govts have tried to bring biharis back but, they could not get past Sindhis on this issue.
Now, if we you have something against Sindhi, then I will be glad to take your punches``}

HP,
Happy New Year to you and family. I have nothing against Sindhis - I have many Sindhi friends and consider myself a Sindhi because Karachi is in Sindh. On almost all issues I am for Sindhi, including the Kalabagh Dam. I commend MQM for broadening its horizon to include Sindhis, Baluchis, Pathans, and even Punjabi downtrodden.

I am glad that you believe that the stranded Pakis, the so-called ``Biharis,`` are doing so well in BD. Perhaps they have caught the inexplicable virus of love for Pakistan that has stricken so many young Pakis like Manto and others. Imagine, they want to leave a perfectly good existence in Mohammedpur for the uncertainty of life in Karachi.

I don`t understand how 300K stranded Pakis can alter the demographics of a province with tens of millions of people or a country that has a 150M population. Millions of Afghans, hundreds of thousands of Bengalis, even more Kashmiris, not to mention returning Pakis from post 9/11 US can be reabsorbed, but not 200K dark-skinned so-called ``Biharis.``

But I just don`t buy the undue influence you attribute to the poor Sindhis. The Punjoo-dominated Government of Pakistan has used this excuse for too long. Isn`t it funny that GoP had no concern for Sindhi displeasure when it came to hanging a popular Sindhi PM. It did not blink in exiling a popular almost goddess-like Sindhi PM and jailing her Sindhi husband for a long long time. The GoP had no hesitancy in proposing to build an unpopular dam against the wishes of Sindhis and Pathans and Baluchis?

But to bring 300K stranded Urdu-speaking Pakis, the GoP can`t move a muscle without a Sindhi OK. Please, if you expect me to believe this nonsesen, then I want to sell you a bridge that I own in NYC. :)
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
listing 224-240   10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Interact Index

    #863 MantoLives
    #862 MantoLives
    #861 MantoLives
    #860 teshah
    #859 rsridhar
    #858 MantoLives
    #857 rsridhar
    #856 Salim_Chauhan
    #855 shishapa
    #854 shishapa
    #853 MantoLives
    #852 shishapa
    #851 MantoLives
    #850 MantoLives
    #849 MantoLives
    #848 sadna
    #847 MantoLives
    #846 sadna
    #845 MantoLives
    #844 amansandhu
    #843 MantoLives
    #842 amansandhu
    #841 Ranjit
    #840 Ranjit
    #839 MantoLives
    #838 amansandhu
    #837 MantoLives
    #836 bolta_aaina
    #835 amansandhu
    #834 MantoLives
    #833 masadi
    #832 MantoLives
    #831 tahmed32
    #830 tahmed32
    #829 masadi
    #828 tahmed32
    #827 MantoLives
    #826 Ranjit
    #825 rsridhar
    #824 rsridhar
    #823 Ranjit
    #822 rsridhar
    #821 rsridhar
    #820 rsridhar
    #819 rsridhar
    #818 rsridhar
    #817 anil
    #816 Ranjit
    #815 khamkhwa.
    #814 mohar11
    #813 dost_mittar
    #812 Salim_Chauhan
    #811 MantoLives
    #810 KaalChakra
    #809 MantoLives
    #808 arjun_m
    #807 MantoLives
    #806 MantoLives
    #805 MantoLives
    #804 amansandhu
    #803 MantoLives
    #802 amansandhu
    #801 MantoLives
    #800 MantoLives
    #799 amansandhu
    #798 Behram1
    #797 Behram1
    #796 Behram1
    #795 bolta_aaina
    #794 MantoLives
    #793 bolta_aaina
    #792 bolta_aaina
    #791 MantoLives
    #790 Ranjit
    #789 MantoLives
    #788 Ranjit
    #787 MantoLives
    #786 Ranjit
    #785 MantoLives
    #784 Ranjit
    #783 MantoLives
    #782 MantoLives
    #781 MantoLives
    #780 Ranjit
    #779 Ranjit
    #778 MantoLives
    #777 MantoLives
    #776 MantoLives
    #775 MantoLives
    #774 bolta_aaina
    #773 bolta_aaina
    #772 Ranjit
    #771 MantoLives
    #770 bolta_aaina
    #769 Ranjit
    #768 bolta_aaina
    #767 MantoLives
    #766 MantoLives
    #765 HP
    #764 MantoLives
    #763 Ranjit
    #762 bolta_aaina
    #761 bolta_aaina
    #760 MantoLives
    #759 AlephNull
    #758 bolta_aaina
    #757 MantoLives
    #756 MantoLives
    #755 anil
    #754 ahmedmadani
    #753 rsridhar
    #752 rsridhar
    #751 rsridhar
    #750 rsridhar
    #749 rsridhar
    #748 KaalChakra
    #747 Ranjit
    #746 Ranjit
    #745 anil
    #744 Salim_Chauhan
    #743 Salim_Chauhan
    #742 Raw_Dust
    #741 Ranjit
    #740 Salim_Chauhan
    #739 Ras
    #738 Salim_Chauhan
    #737 Salim_Chauhan
    #736 Salim_Chauhan
    #735 Ranjit
    #734 mohar11
    #733 mohar11
    #732 arjun_m
    #731 Behram1
    #730 masanamuthu
    #729 Ranjit
    #728 Aslan
    #727 Ranjit
    #726 arjun_m
    #725 Aslan
    #724 Behram1
    #723 MantoLives
    #722 MantoLives
    #721 arjun_m
    #720 mohar11
    #719 Behram1
    #718 hindvi
    #717 MantoLives
    #716 mohar11
    #715 mohar11
    #714 arjun_m
    #713 MantoLives
    #712 tahmed32
    #711 MantoLives
    #710 mohar11
    #709 Aslan
    #708 bolta_aaina
    #707 bolta_aaina
    #706 MantoLives
    #705 Aslan
    #704 Aslan
    #703 bolta_aaina
    #702 Aslan
    #701 Aslan
    #700 MantoLives
    #699 amansandhu
    #698 Aslan
    #697 MantoLives
    #696 Aslan
    #695 Aslan
    #694 MantoLives
    #693 Aslan
    #692 MantoLives
    #691 Aslan
    #690 MantoLives
    #689 Aslan
    #688 MantoLives
    #687 Aisha_Sarwari
    #686 arjun_m
    #685 arjun_m
    #684 arjun_m
    #683 Aisha_Sarwari
    #682 MantoLives
    #681 arjun_m
    #680 MantoLives
    #679 MantoLives
    #678 arjun_m
    #677 Aisha_Sarwari
    #676 bolta_aaina
    #675 arjun_m
    #674 MantoLives
    #673 arjun_m
    #672 MantoLives
    #671 arjun_m
    #670 MantoLives
    #669 bolta_aaina
    #668 MantoLives
    #667 hindvi
    #666 bolta_aaina
    #665 MantoLives
    #664 bolta_aaina
    #663 bolta_aaina
    #662 Aisha_Sarwari
    #661 MantoLives
    #660 bolta_aaina
    #659 MantoLives
    #658 MantoLives
    #657 hindvi
    #656 MantoLives
    #655 MantoLives
    #654 MantoLives
    #653 bolta_aaina
    #652 hindvi
    #651 MantoLives
    #650 MantoLives
    #649 Behram1
    #648 anil
    #647 anil
    #646 anil
    #646 anil
    #645 upman7626
    #644 Ranjit
    #643 Ranjit
    #642 Behram1
    #641 rsridhar
    #640 Behram1
    #639 rsridhar
    #638 rsridhar
    #637 rsridhar
    #636 rsridhar
    #636 Behram1
    #635 KaalChakra
    #634 Salim_Chauhan
    #633 anil
    #632 Salim_Chauhan
    #631 Salim_Chauhan
    #630 upman7626
    #629 Ranjit
    #628 Salim_Chauhan
    #627 Salim_Chauhan
    #626 Salim_Chauhan
    #625 ahmedmadani
    #624 HP
    #623 Ras
    #622 Ranjit
    #621 HP
    #620 Salim_Chauhan
    #619 Salim_Chauhan
    #618 mohar11
    #617 Behram1
    #616 Salim_Chauhan
    #615 Salim_Chauhan
    #614 Salim_Chauhan
    #613 Behram1
    #612 Salim_Chauhan
    #611 Salim_Chauhan
    #610 Salim_Chauhan
    #609 Salim_Chauhan
    #608 MantoLives
    #607 Salim_Chauhan
    #606 Salim_Chauhan
    #605 Salim_Chauhan
    #604 MantoLives
    #603 MantoLives
    #602 MantoLives
    #601 bolta_aaina
    #600 Behram1
    #599 MantoLives
    #598 Aisha_Sarwari
    #597 bolta_aaina
    #596 anil
    #595 discoverer
    #594 bolta_aaina
    #593 amansandhu
    #592 bolta_aaina
    #591 Ranjit
    #590 masadi
    #589 Ranjit
    #588 MantoLives
    #587 MantoLives
    #586 bolta_aaina
    #585 MantoLives
    #584 MantoLives
    #583 MantoLives
    #582 Salim_Chauhan
    #581 Behram1
    #580 Salim_Chauhan
    #579 Salim_Chauhan
    #578 Salim_Chauhan
    #577 teshah
    #576 Salim_Chauhan
    #575 khamkhwa.
    #574 masadi
    #573 Behram1
    #572 Salim_Chauhan
    #571 Salim_Chauhan
    #570 Salim_Chauhan
    #569 Behram1
    #568 amansandhu
    #567 Ranjit
    #566 Behram1
    #565 Salim_Chauhan
    #564 Salim_Chauhan
    #563 Salim_Chauhan
    #562 jang
    #561 Salim_Chauhan
    #560 Salim_Chauhan
    #559 Behram1
    #558 Behram1
    #557 tahmed32
    #556 tahmed32
    #555 Behram1
    #554 aquaris
    #553 Salim_Chauhan
    #552 Salim_Chauhan
    #551 Salim_Chauhan
    #550 Salim_Chauhan
    #549 Salim_Chauhan
    #548 Salim_Chauhan
    #547 Behram1
    #546 amansandhu
    #545 masadi
    #544 aquaris
    #543 anil
    #542 Behram1
    #541 Behram1
    #540 rsridhar
    #539 Salim_Chauhan
    #538 Salim_Chauhan
    #537 Salim_Chauhan
    #536 Salim_Chauhan
    #535 Behram1
    #534 teshah
    #533 masadi
    #532 aquaris
    #531 tahmed32
    #530 Behram1
    #529 Behram1
    #528 Salim_Chauhan
    #527 Salim_Chauhan
    #526 Ranjit
    #525 Salim_Chauhan
    #524 Salim_Chauhan
    #523 Behram1
    #522 ahmedmadani
    #521 ahmedmadani
    #520 Ranjit
    #519 ahmedmadani
    #518 Ranjit
    #517 Ras
    #516 bolta_aaina
    #515 arjun_m
    #514 Salim_Chauhan
    #513 MantoLives
    #512 mohar11
    #511 mohar11
    #510 MantoLives
    #509 MantoLives
    #508 Salim_Chauhan
    #507 Salim_Chauhan
    #506 MantoLives
    #505 mohar11
    #504 Salim_Chauhan
    #503 mohar11
    #502 MantoLives
    #501 MantoLives
    #500 mohar11
    #499 Behram1
    #498 MantoLives
    #497 mohar11
    #496 mohar11
    #495 Behram1
    #494 MantoLives
    #493 Salim_Chauhan
    #492 MantoLives
    #491 MantoLives
    #490 rsridhar
    #489 MantoLives
    #488 Salim_Chauhan
    #487 rsridhar
    #486 rsridhar
    #485 MantoLives
    #484 arjun_m
    #483 MantoLives
    #482 arjun_m
    #481 CheGuevara
    #480 MantoLives
    #479 MantoLives
    #478 arjun_m
    #477 arjun_m
    #476 MantoLives
    #475 arjun_m
    #474 MantoLives
    #473 MantoLives
    #472 MantoLives
    #471 aquaris
    #470 hindvi
    #469 Ranjit
    #468 Ranjit
    #467 Ranjit
    #466 Ranjit
    #465 Behram1
    #464 masadi
    #463 rsridhar
    #462 Salim_Chauhan
    #461 Behram1
    #460 Salim_Chauhan
    #459 sadna
    #458 teshah
    #457 Salim_Chauhan
    #456 Salim_Chauhan
    #455 Salim_Chauhan
    #454 Salim_Chauhan
    #453 Salim_Chauhan
    #452 Salim_Chauhan
    #451 tahmed32
    #450 ahmedmadani
    #449 shishapa
    #448 sadna
    #447 Behram1
    #446 Behram1
    #445 shishapa
    #444 bongdongs
    #443 tahmed32
    #442 jang
    #441 tahmed32
    #440 tahmed32
    #439 ahmedmadani
    #438 ahmedmadani
    #437 Ras
    #436 Ras
    #435 Ras
    #434 masadi
    #433 sadna
    #432 Behram1
    #431 Behram1
    #430 arjun_m
    #429 Salim_Chauhan
    #428 MantoLives
    #427 Salim_Chauhan
    #426 rsridhar
    #425 MantoLives
    #424 arjun_m
    #423 jang
    #422 rsridhar
    #421 MantoLives
    #420 Salim_Chauhan
    #419 rsridhar
    #418 arjun_m
    #417 rsridhar
    #416 MantoLives
    #415 Salim_Chauhan
    #414 arjun_m
    #413 Salim_Chauhan
    #412 MantoLives
    #411 MantoLives
    #410 arjun_m
    #409 MantoLives
    #408 sadna
    #407 rsridhar
    #406 Salim_Chauhan
    #405 arjun_m
    #404 MantoLives
    #403 arjun_m
    #402 arjun_m
    #401 MantoLives
    #400 MantoLives
    #399 MantoLives
    #398 Salim_Chauhan
    #397 arjun_m
    #396 rsridhar
    #395 arjun_m
    #394 arjun_m
    #393 rsridhar
    #392 arjun_m
    #391 MantoLives
    #390 Salim_Chauhan
    #389 ferozk
    #388 rsridhar
    #387 arjun_m
    #387 MantoLives
    #386 jang
    #385 rsridhar
    #384 rsridhar
    #383 MantoLives
    #382 rsridhar
    #381 MantoLives
    #380 arjun_m
    #379 MantoLives
    #378 arjun_m
    #377 MantoLives
    #376 arjun_m
    #375 MantoLives
    #374 arjun_m
    #373 MantoLives
    #372 tahmed32
    #371 tahmed32
    #370 tahmed32
    #369 MantoLives
    #368 MantoLives
    #367 MantoLives
    #366 ahmedmadani
    #365 bolta_aaina
    #364 MantoLives
    #363 sadna
    #362 bolta_aaina
    #361 bolta_aaina
    #360 harish_hyd
    #359 Behram1
    #358 Urstruly
    #357 Ras
    #356 jang
    #355 jang
    #354 Behram1
    #353 Salim_Chauhan
    #352 mohar11
    #351 Behram1
    #350 Salim_Chauhan
    #349 mohar11
    #348 Salim_Chauhan
    #347 Salim_Chauhan
    #346 Salim_Chauhan
    #345 Salim_Chauhan
    #344 Salim_Chauhan
    #343 tahmed32
    #342 arjun_m
    #341 Ras
    #340 tahmed32
    #339 anil
    #338 Behram1
    #337 shishapa
    #336 shishapa
    #335 Salim_Chauhan
    #334 Aisha_Sarwari
    #333 MantoLives
    #332 Salim_Chauhan
    #331 Salim_Chauhan
    #330 MantoLives
    #329 Salim_Chauhan
    #328 shishapa
    #327 Salim_Chauhan
    #326 Salim_Chauhan
    #325 MantoLives
    #324 Salim_Chauhan
    #323 Salim_Chauhan
    #322 Salim_Chauhan
    #321 MantoLives
    #320 shishapa
    #319 MantoLives
    #318 MantoLives
    #317 shishapa
    #316 MantoLives
    #315 MantoLives
    #314 shishapa
    #313 arjun_m
    #312 MantoLives
    #311 bolta_aaina
    #310 bolta_aaina
    #309 rsridhar
    #308 rsridhar
    #307 bolta_aaina
    #306 AlephNull
    #305 harish_hyd
    #304 bolta_aaina
    #303 harish_hyd
    #302 satyamvada
    #301 rsridhar
    #300 KaalChakra
    #299 Salim_Chauhan
    #298 rsridhar
    #297 Salim_Chauhan
    #296 rsridhar
    #295 rsridhar
    #294 Salim_Chauhan
    #293 rsridhar
    #292 Behram1
    #291 tahmed32
    #290 teshah
    #289 CoolAL
    #288 Behram1
    #287 anil
    #286 CoolAL
    #285 Behram1
    #284 shishapa
    #283 Ahmadzai
    #282 shishapa
    #281 Salim_Chauhan
    #280 Ahmadzai
    #279 Salim_Chauhan
    #278 Ahmadzai
    #277 Ahmadzai
    #276 shishapa
    #275 aquaris
    #274 Salim_Chauhan
    #273 bongdongs
    #272 Salim_Chauhan
    #271 hindvi
    #270 Salim_Chauhan
    #269 hindvi
    #268 tahmed32
    #267 aquaris
    #266 Salim_Chauhan
    #265 tahmed32
    #264 Salim_Chauhan
    #263 Salim_Chauhan
    #262 Salim_Chauhan
    #261 Salim_Chauhan
    #260 Salim_Chauhan
    #259 arjun_m
    #258 ferozk
    #257 bolta_aaina
    #256 bolta_aaina
    #255 bolta_aaina
    #254 hindvi
    #253 bolta_aaina
    #252 hindvi
    #251 hindvi
    #250 Ranjit
    #249 hindvi
    #248 harish_hyd
    #247 anil
    #246 hindvi
    #245 shishapa
    #244 anil
    #243 Ranjit
    #242 shishapa
    #241 shishapa
    #240 KaalChakra
    #239 bolta_aaina
    #238 bolta_aaina
    #237 bolta_aaina
    #236 hindvi
    #235 satyamvada
    #234 Ahmadzai
    #233 Behram1
    #232 Behram1
    #231 Ahmadzai
    #230 Ahmadzai
    #229 Ahmadzai
    #228 tahmed32
    #227 tahmed32
    #226 anil
    #225 Salim_Chauhan
    #224 Salim_Chauhan
    #223 jang
    #222 Salim_Chauhan
    #221 mohar11
    #220 Salim_Chauhan
    #219 Behram1
    #218 Salim_Chauhan
    #217 Salim_Chauhan
    #216 Behram1
    #215 Salim_Chauhan
    #214 Salim_Chauhan
    #213 Salim_Chauhan
    #212 Salim_Chauhan
    #211 Behram1
    #210 Salim_Chauhan
    #209 Salim_Chauhan
    #208 Behram1
    #207 Behram1
    #206 faisaluno
    #205 Ahmadzai
    #204 Ahmadzai
    #203 einsteinwallah
    #202 faisaluno
    #201 shishapa
    #200 Ahmadzai
    #199 HP
    #198 Salim_Chauhan
    #197 Salim_Chauhan
    #196 shishapa
    #195 Ahmadzai
    #194 shishapa
    #193 Salim_Chauhan
    #192 jang
    #191 Salim_Chauhan
    #190 shishapa
    #189 Salim_Chauhan
    #188 kaurasach
    #187 Salim_Chauhan
    #186 faisaluno
    #185 shishapa
    #184 Salim_Chauhan
    #183 Ahmadzai
    #182 faisaluno
    #181 Salim_Chauhan
    #180 shishapa
    #179 Salim_Chauhan
    #178 Ahmadzai
    #177 Salim_Chauhan