A Muslim Pope?

re:#729 by ranjit
You are barking against the wrong tree.
People with any sense would seize the opportunity and gain from the advantageous position Pak is in today as a transit route. But it has refused transit facilities for goods to Afghanistan (it could easily have charged a fee for such a facility), refused MFN status. Ditto with Bangladesh which seems to prefer terrorism to economic cooperation with India and has not granted transit access to the North East.
Sridhar

re:#703 by bolta_aaina
(Indian Muslims and Mohajirs have now understood that they go under tremendous loss by partition, while Hindus have realised that they gain by partition. Otherwise, they will have to face a stiff competition from the Muslims in every field.)
I thought the very reason for Pak was to avoid competition with the Hindus, who were already dominating in every filed pre-partition.
No Indian (hindu or muslim or any other religious affiliation) would like India and Pak to merge together today.
Pak is a jehadi nation under occupation by a dictator who in turn is dancing to the tunes of USA.
Indians must feel grateful to Jinnah. The inflamed appendix of the main body, which is what Pak is today, was surgically cut off 50 years ago. If it had remained in India, India would be in the same situation that Pak is today.
Sridhar

re:#645 by upman7626
Thanks for your post. Sorry for a belated reply. Work sometimes keeps me away for long hours.
I think the Mahesh Bhatt movie u are talking about is ``Saaransh``. Anupam Kher`s first and probably the best movie (IMO).
Kher i think is a Kashmiri Pandit and that must have prompted him to be pro-BJP.
What makes Ms Roy so much left leaning and anti-establishment? Will appreciate if u have any answers.
Sridhar

behram1 #636

Of all international powers, Americans have traditionally understood the least amount about the nature of global religious conflicts and religious motivations. In their eyes nothing related to religion could be worse than the curse of communism.

If only the Paki punjoos could think beyond Kashmir, imagine what the whole region could become!!

Re:anil#745

Very interesting. Now consider Pakistan as the ``middleware nation`` connecting the 3 giants India, China and Iran/Central Asia and you have the perfect solution. Imagine goods, services and energy flowing back and forth between these giants. Vow!!

Salim Sahib:

Think of this scenario of the future. China (manufacturing base on the producer side of the economy), India (services on the producer side of the economy), and both together as consumer market. A free-trade agreement between India and China will put world`s 40% of the population under free trade and world`s most dominant market, with both producer and consumer sides covered. If you throw Iran, when it is ready, into it for the energy source.

Can this scenario not make this century Asia`s Century?

This what the U.S. and EU concerned about

Anil

If tahmed32 becomes the Muslim Pope, Tahmed XXXII, I will have no choice but to become Mateen LuthRa. :)

#741, Ranjit,
LOL, now we are having the categories refined.
Please put me in the Prithviraj Chauhan group. :)


Thanks,

Hypothetically:

Pakistan doesnt need reunification, Pakistan needs a complete dismemberment. In an imaginary world, where uncle sam helps Sindhis and counter chinese designs on gwadar by encouraging a Baluch republic - Sindhis and Baluchs will become the master of their own destiny for the first time in a long while.

Saraiki province might join the new Sindhu Desh like in a confederal structure which would give better options to their agriculture products like highly prized cotton via Karachi. Sindh can develop a high-tech economy by creating a highly skilled workforce. In this way, reliance on Indus river water and agriculture will be eased out.

Northen Punjab could grow Methi and rice and could keep on assembling ceiling fans in faisalabad. Hopefully, they will learn to recognize their eastern punjabi brothers without going all too racist - to you know, sell their stuff and trade. Selective amnesia on kashmir will likely follow too.

In this epic fantasy, do notice that the problem of Pakistan army will completely phase out on its own.

Re:Salim_Chaihan #740

ROTFL....

This was really funny.....let me take the good cop/bad cop analogy one step further......among south asian muslims you have the Akbar / Aurangzeb complex......the Akbars are the ones who believe in secularism, want to live with hindus (and rule over them with their loyal cooperation ;-) ).....the Aurgangzebs are the ones who view all hindus as kaffirs and want to convert them or shun them......

Historically the Akbar group has had Akbar himself, Sher Shah Suri, most Mughal emperors, Maulana Azad and of course Salim_Chauhan

The Aurangzeb group has had Aurangzeb himself, Ghaznavi, Ghouri, Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Jinnah, most Pakistani rulers and of course Mr. Manto

Interestingly Musharraf is sort of straddling the fence between the two groups...;-)

From UP thread started by Khamkhwa, #4 Manto {``yaar... our own salim chauhan, the brilliant sophist, is pulling a fast one on the Indians.. nothing else... and few of them have actually taken him on face value``} B)

Manto,
Thank you for catching on to my trick. I am trying my best to charm the neighborly Indians into letting us rejoin them at this hour of their ascendency. :))
Now that these kaffirly Hindus have skyrocketed their economy, pulled way ahead in literacy, dominate the world in IT, defeated Pakistan in almost every war, unilaterally solved the Kashmir problem, and have held several democratic elections resulting in replacement of incumbent ruling parties, I see no harm in fooling them into a repeal of partition.
I appreciate your role of playing the bad cop, while I play the good cop. If we make it appear too easy, then the Indians will never accept reunification. But if you continue to put up a good fight, as you are so valiantly doing, I will be better able to convince them that it was a tough job, but I finally talked the Pakis into this reunion. Keep up the good effort and I will see you in our long overdue united, free, and prosperous Hindustan. (T)

BTW, please tone down this blood letting stuff, you might be going overboard just a tad bit.

At the risk of repeating myself....



My vision of a NEW SOUTH ASIA (not a NAYA HINDUSTAN) is one which does not

need any reversal of history. The NEW SOUTH ASIA will be one where any ordinary

Indian or Pakistani will drive or ride to the border and with identification visit

the other side for upto 30 days with minimal hassle (as between the U.S.

and Canada befor 9/11). A quick visitor permit will need to be issued. The same

can be implemented between all other SAARC countries if they wish.

The only thing that is currently holding this back is a small group of fanatics

on both sides of this Hindu-Muslim divide and the Kashmir issue.

I have high hopes for a resolution of Kashmir before 2007 so this may indeed be

a HAPPY NEW YEAR for all of South Asia.

The most important aspect of this vision will be the free flow of trade and cultural activity

between India and Pakistan. The foundation of this future trade opening is already

being laid by the Iran-Pakistan-India Gas Pipline.

This vision includes a special place for the Sikhs who will be able to visit and stay at

their religious places in Pakistan whenever they wish and the Ahmadis who would like

to visit Qadian. (And other Pakistanis will be able to visit Sufi Shrines in India).

The NEW SOUTH ASIA will lead to economic and cultural cooperation where

integration or a reversal of Partition is not necessary.

All we need now is a little luck and a great deal of wisdom.

A part of that wisdom can start with us not attacking each others

icons (Gandhi or Jinnah)


Peace & Happy New Year

Ras

Yasser, Behram, and others.
I am amazed and surprised to see that rational, educated, modern, and liberal Pakistanis, such as yourselves, are ready to kill and die for the right to continue being citizens of Pakistan, and only Pakistan. You must not believe in evolution, or change. :)

Bangladesh used their former East Pakistan status as a stepping stone to something different, something better (from their point of view), and who knows even they might end up as part of a united Hindustan, rather than a hinterland for the giant Indian economy. Without requiring any bloody response from you, I am just suggesting the possiblity of reunification. If you wield that much authority over all Lahore and most of Punjab, I will be content with a ``moth-eaten`` reunification that involves at least Karachi and Hyderabad.

Pakistan has had almost 60 years to blossom. Other than some nuclear explosions, it has very little to write home about. OK, OK, I take it back, it has had and has a great cricket team and a pretty good hockey team - but that`s it.

Partition of 1947, secession of East Pakistan in 1971, and the current ethnic and provincial strife in Pakistan are conclusive proof that religion is not strong enough a bond to create an aritificial nation. With the rapid acceleration of a global economy, Pakistanis do not have the time for should haves, could haves, and might haves. I say declare Pakistan a resounding success and march off to someting much better - a united Hindustan with decreased defense expenditures, emphasis in total literacy and human development, and a promise not to allow anymore hunger, disease, and desperate poverty in our midst. It can be done. No slogan, no religion, no flag, no anthem is worth the waste of human beings that we are seeing today.

Behram! #731 {``I disagree with the notion that Pakistan’s economy should be tied with India’s economy. They are two divergent economies. If, between India or China, there is any economy to be worth considering than Pakistan should tie itself to the rising Chinese economy. After all there are over 200 million muslims in the western province of China, that would like to share their expertise with a fellow muslim nation. ``}

Behram Bhai,
Now I know you are smoking some very bad Mexican grass. Some inconsistencies in your post:

1. China does not have 200M Muslims - not in Sinkiang, not in Yunnan, and not in the Won Ton Soup or the Kung Pao Chicken.
2. Any Muslim majority that was in Sinkiang (Eastern Turkestan) has been lost to the influx of Han Chinese, brought in by the Chinese government to alter the demographics, as they are doing in Tibet.
3. There are no bonds of language, food, clothing, culture, entertainment, and ancestry between China and Pakistan, unlike there are between India and Paksitan - unless you take into account the Pakistani taste for General Tsao`s Chicken as the paramount consideration.

Ranjit #643, {``I think this is where mohajirs in Pakistan can make a tremendous impact in the near-term. Mohajirs can lobby the Pak government to maximize commercial relations with India including giving MFN status, transit rights to Afghanistan etc. and allow Indian media products like films, books, newspapers to be sold in Pakistan. Given their education status, influence in the business world and contacts in the Pak bureaucracy, mohajirs can become champions of increased commercial/media relations with India. Now the paki establishment is obsessed with Kashmir, but the mohajir community can fight to lower that obsession and channel people`s attention towards more productive options.``}

Ranjit Bhai,
I agree with you that economic cooperation is the probably the first route to what many of us want. In order for Mohajirs to play a key role, the border crossing at Khokhrapar would have to be opened up, not to mention high-speed traffic between Mumbai and Karachi. Right now the single Wagah crossing near Lahore is illogical, expensive, and makes everything go through an extra 700+ miles for no real good reason.

As for the Kashmir obsession, I can envision the problem being solved by an act of reunification. No losers - everybody wins. As I have said before, and someone pointed out here, we individual citizens don`t really get to ``own`` other parts of our countries. We merely have to the right to visit, travel, or even settle down without having to go through paperwok and bureacracy. Anyway, you are right about Mohajirs becoming the catalyst for much greater Indo/Pak cooperation. Thanks,