Indian Corruption Reaches the World

Re: # 20

Blaming Natwar solely on the basis of a US report, which (like many more of its ilk), is discredited, is not wise.

Ref pathaab #19

You have gone off the deep end. Go quietly when the medics show up at your house to take you to the padded cell.

Blaming Natwar solely on the basis of a US report, which (like many more of its ilk), is discredited, is not wise.

Also, one should keep in mind that the US is capable of twisting arms, behind the scenes, and Natwar is certainly not one of its `blue eyed boys`, like the BJP government was. It is well known to fabricate documents in the media to discredit political opponents. In fact, it is better know to kill those opposed to its policies - which reminds me, strangely, of Rajiv Gandhis killing.

Excerpt from the Jain Commission....

Threat perceptions from other hostile elements
7 Threat perceptions from stray sources, which apparently appear unrelated, assume significance in a scenario where there exists evidence of underhand linkages among seemingly disparate hostile forces.

8 An incident involving alleged surveillance of the residence of Shri. Rajiv Gandhi (10, Janpath, New Delhi) which snowballed into a major political event and precipitated the general elections of 1991 requires to be mentioned in this context.

8.1 On 2nd March, 1991, two Head Constables of CID of Haryana Police were apprehended by the security personnel near the residence of Shri. Rajiv Gandhi at 10, Janpath, New Delhi, as they had been spotted moving about under suspicious circumstances near the rear side of the residence. Earlier, on the night of 21st February, 1991, one or two persons were seen under similar circumstances at the same place. During interrogation, one Head Constable admitted that he had been deputed to keep a watch on the nearby Congress (I) headquarters (24, Akbar Road, New Delhi). The other head Constable stated that he had come to meet the Head Constable deputed there. However, Director general of Police, Haryana, stated that these two head constables were posted at Narnaul and Rohtak and had gone to Delhi unauthorisedly. These two Head Constables had been placed under suspension.

However, the intelligence agencies did not perceive this incident as anything more than a security problem as is evident from the deposition of Shri M.K. Narayanan, former Director, Intelligence Bureau, before the Commission on 20th. November, 1996 :-

``Surveillance by two constables at 10, Janpath became a major issue from our point of view regarding security arrangements of Shri Rajiv Gandhi......Quite clearly there was some connection between Mr. O.P. Chautala and the surveillance at 10, Janpath. IB did not see O.P. Chautala as a threat to the life of Rajiv Gandhi, therefore IB did not think him as a threat to Rajiv Gandhi.``

8.2 No plausible explanation for the presence of these two Head Constables near the residence of Shri. Rajiv Gandhi`s residence has come forth. Even it is not clear whether the persons spotted on the night of February 21st were the same who were apprehended on 2nd March, 1991. The episode led to the fall of the Government at the Centre. The ramifications of these incidents in terms of their being a link of a part of any conspiracy need to be inquired into.

The only flaw in the article is the reason given for the fall of the Chandrashekhar government. Rajiv Gandhi did not remove support due to the war. He did so because there were two alleged police constables of the Haryana Police conducting surveillence on his residence. This was the flimsy reason to remove one of the arguably most corrupt administrations of India.

correction:
In msg#15 I meant to say
``Laws can be immoral and Immoral acts can be Lawful``

correction:
In msg#15 I meant to say
``Laws can be immoral and Immoral acts can be Lawful``

correction:
In msg#15 I meant to say
``Laws can be immoral and Immoral acts can be Lawful``

Mehul Kamdar.

You should introspect . Unfortunately like many Indians - you tend to self-flagellate
a bit. If Natwar or congress or bjp or any politician in a corrupt - it does not mean
``Indians`` are corrupt.

have you ever seen a headline ``European corruption reaches the world`` ?
European arms manufacturers are the some of the biggest corrupt and bribers in the
world.

Also - about the fellow paying ot stay a little bit more at Tirupati .
Laws can be immoral and Immorality cannot be Lawful.

So, In your firiends case - dont blame hime for paying extra to stay longer - But what
he did was immoral because he probably prevented another devotee from getting
a chance to see the murti - therein lies the wrong.

#7 by harimau on February 19, 2006 0:31am PT

Maybe the CIA has acquired the amazing Indian ability to alter reality by posting on a website..

Indians post about Pakiland`s support to Islamic terrorism and the reality magically gets altered and the world actually finds out Pakiland did, in fact, support Islamic terrorism..If Indians didn`t post about it, the reality wouldn`t have been altered and Pakiland wouldn`t have been a supporter of Islamic terrorism...or so the paki theory goes..

The reason why Natwar Singh was jettisoned by Sonia Gandhi was not because he siphoned off Iraqi medicine money but because he kept everything to himself.

I mean look at you - you have already started the squabbling - why congress is targeted? why not this guy or that guy?..... as if it matters.... if you can nail one guy good as a showcase - that will serve an example - will bring some confidence that yes, finally we indians can do the right thing - even if it takes 20 centuries to do it.....

10/

You have to start somewhere.... besides, the congress politicians have ruled[and ruined] the country for most part of last 60 years - so they go first....Sure - while at at - nail jaya or modi or laloo - that will be icing on the cake.....

But we all know such good things ain`t happening.... Like Kaura said - Indians have been slaves for 20 centuries because we never bothered to weed out the vermin.... we are not going change our ways that fast....

Corruption will continue....

Re: # 7

yes, corruption is an issue that needs weeding out mercilessly. But why should only Congress politicians be targetted on the basis of discredited reports?

Why does nt someone nail for eg., Jayalalitha or a Modi who have made crores of money (but wheres the proof?)

Re: # 5 kaura

Yep - you can say that again.....

#7

Harimau, It appears that you have made your mind up that Natwar is guilty. But thats upto you.

``Up to that, it strains credulity but is plausible. ``
A discredited report, at the behest of a country discredited by the original Iraqi report which was taken verbatim from the internet, cannot be depended upon to pass judgement, that too on the foreign minister of a country that would like to take independent views on the international stage.

Ref parthaab #2

[ACCusing Natwar Singh, as a man who played a role in opposing the Iraqi occupation, was at the behest of a `discredited US document`.......]

The Volcker Report used official Iraqi Government documents to identify Natwar Singh as one of the participants in the Oil for Food scam.

You could say that the CIA planted a document with Natwar Singh`s name on it in the Iraqui Government files.

You could also argue that the CIA somehow created backdated bank accounts and transactions between Natwar Singh`s son`s friend Andaleeb Sehgal and the Swiss company that actually sold the oil on their behalf in the international market.

Up to that, it strains credulity but is plausible.

But then somehow the CIA got Natwar Singh and his son Jagat Singh to travel to Iraq and to Jordan on those dates which coincide with the dates on the document.

Perhaps they actually did not travel to Jordan and Iraq and the CIA forged the visas and entry stamps on their passports. But Natwar Singh and Son have not denied that actually travelled to Jordan and Iraq on those days.

Hey, Natwar Singh is a CIA agent! That is why he is not denying that he went to Jordan and Iraq. He is going along with the whole thing and has got forged entries in his passport by those skilled craftsmen in the employ of the CIA.

It is a larger plot by the CIA to get at the Congress Party and Natwar Singh is going along with it!

PS. If you believe Natwar Singh is innocent, I have got a bridge to sell to you.

studied at Peking University.


Good riddance!!

That is Why Indians have been slaves for 20 centuries &^&^^@!@!

They will sell anything, including their Bharat mata.

I watched a short documentary about Rajiv on the History Channel , they didn`t mention anything about him supporting Saddam. Interesting that the American media left a major detail like that out about a closet commie, when they didn`t even forgive King Hussein (one of their favourite A-raaab strongmen) for it.

The article seems to include a lot of conjecture but you are honest enough to use terms like ``probably``.

This interactor does not hold a high opinion of the Nehru family members that followed Nehru himself. They really built up this whole cult of personality thing in Indian politics. And I detest the likes of the Natwar. But are these people to blame alone?

The sad reality is - there are a lot of bootlicker desis around and have been present for eternity. Corruption is a side effect.

It is probably a part of our history - going all the way back to perhaps people converting under the threat of the sword and local ``kings`` offering their daughters the ``honor`` of becoming second or third string wives to the local ``emperor``.

Those who have the guts to make independent voices heard and are not afraid to get their heads chopped off are few and far between.

And yet we wonder why the country does not lead the pack.

Why every scum-bag tin-pot country can feel they have the power to chop off Indian heads - and gouge out Indian eyes!

Why OUR women get vaginal inspection to prove ``consummation`` at airports, even predating 9/11!

And we take that sort of crap - and we lick it like it were our very own nectar - because we learnt so well to do it at home - subservience has been conditioned right inside those minds - and reinforced repeatedly by the society at large.

And it is even worse with our Pakistani friends - they have the Mullahs and the khakis to contend with - on top of everything else - and don`t even start talking about being a woman there!

On the positive side, I like this healthy trend of some skepticism that is building up in India (and perhaps in Pakistan, for all I know) which probably results from less centralized media. So perhaps there is hope, after all.

You are one of the new writers chowk introduced during my ``brief`` absence. So, welcome and I wish you all the best with your health issues. I posted a short comment on your last article, too.

True, corruption in India has reached phenomenal proportions.

To ascribe it only to the Congress party however, is a favorite pastime of the BJP in particular, after Bofors (which was played up essentially in the media, but has not been proved in courts - the media, off which Arun Shourie, the man in the center of a large corruption scandal in the BJP government played a prominent role)

Corruption is now accepted as part of politics. Jayalalitha (non Congress), a South Indian film actress, who later entered politics, is now probably one of the richest people in her state.

ACCusing Natwar Singh, as a man who played a role in opposing the Iraqi occupation, was at the behest of a `discredited US document` which has also named several of those opposed to the US as `beneficiaries` of Saddams regime - including George Galloway, the prominent British dissident.

Natwars resignation, was not an indication of his guilt, but rather an acknowledgement of the forces in international politics.

India is being touted as the Asian Tigers with its rapid economic, I repeat , economic gains through consumer consumption and NRIs but not the Industrial element which is rested and favourite with China.

Issues and scams that have been propping up, lately, make India vulnerable to a fragile infrastructure. The so-called vision of prosperity has been aired and marketed very well, yet there are suspicious endorsers.

The root cause and the solution is to bereft the racket of politicians who are IMPLANTED to keep an eye on the indexes of the stock market, the braindrain, the export of business and not material.
Third World has many enemies and many dreams - and enemies is the lamp which holds the genie called dreams.