Shivaji -- Portrait of the King as Barbarian

#269, Bolta Aina,

Talking Mirror Sahib,
I don`t know about the story you heard in Avadh concerning Jai Singh`s role in drumming up the Aurangzeb/Shivaji clash, but the Rajput/Mahratta hatred may have some pre-Mughal roots, I don`t know. Maybe, our experts, such as Mr. Jang, in caste relationships and Indian history can shed some light on the subject. Isn`t it true that Rajputs always conisdered Mahrattas as lower castes? Also, I have heard that Shivaji tried to pose as a Rajput indirectly somehow. Anyway, these are all tales, but the true end to this topic is your statement from the other board:

{``In the north, he is considered as a hero because he fought with Aurangzeb and Aurangzeb was one who was against Hindus. I dont think he is considered a hero in Rajasthan from where his opponent Jai Singh belonged to. He is also not much praised in Gujarat and Western MP because of his invasions to these lands. ``}

Dear Shishapa...

Please rest assure you can feel very strongly about anything you want... I certainly wouldn`t appreciate somebody telling me not to feel strongly about the witchdoctors of humanity.

As for my line ``It shows your real character`` is indicative of my very truthful feelings about you as a human being and as an Indian. I am merely expressing my point of view. As far as I am concerned, you have shown yourself up in a most freudian fashion.

Eid Mubarik to you sir- and have a nice day.

--

Eid Mubarik to the rest as well... Will return after two days leave to see whats going on out here.


Yours sincerely

YLH

Mantoji,

``It shows your real character``

This line in your post # 281 was totally uncalled for. That is what I called namecalling
and not discussion. I have never ever characterized you in any way before and will not do
again.

Remember, I have right to feel strongly against those people who have worked on
dividing/to_the_detriment_of India just the way you have right to feel strongly against
people who work for dividing/to_the_detriment of Pakistan.

Anyway, last post from me on this board.

Dear Shishapa

Talk like me how? Stoop to my argument how? I give you facts etc and you get upset?
You give clear proof that you consider only Muslims to be evil by mentioning a list of clothing associated with Muslims (and then make some adjustments adding Advani and Thackerey to the list)

By the way Jinnah has probably contributed more to Indian legislative history than any of your founding fathers... even the child marriages restraint act was passed due to his efforts... Indianisation of the Officer class in the Indian Army was due to his exclusive efforts... and he worked to the detriment. Yes he did because he could not accept hogwash from people like you after faithfully serving India as a patriot for 3 decades... and all you could come up with is a bs analogy with robbers... (ofcourse in a country like India where petty robbers become legislators this is what is expected..)

In case it has not penetrated in your thick skull yet, all these people are evil to me because
they have either worked or working to the detriment of India.

See I can talk like you. And that would be last time I will be talking to anyone like that
because I do not want to stoop to your level of argument during discussions.

Name calling? What name calling? Are you a liar too? You missed dhoti... you missed Gandhi cap... that shows that you were only talking of Muslims.

Here is a much more neutral and accurate list of ``Evil`` as you put it:

Dhoti: Gandhi, Bal Thackerey
Red Mark on the forehead: Uma Bharati, Bal Thackerey, Tara Singh
Bearded : Modi, Maulana Maudoodi, Ata ullah Shah Bukhari, Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind
non-bearded - Thackerey, Nehru, Patel, Gandhi
topiwala (Gandhi cap and Muslim aka Jinnah Cap - Maulana Azad, Bacha Khan, Ulema of Deoband, Nehru
sherwaniwala - Maulana Azad, Most Nationalist Muslims...
veiled - Asiya Andrabi, the wives of Ulema of Deoband (wait they were not even allowed in politics)...


--

That you are looking for excuses shows that you are still not ready to take even a little bit responsibility on your own people.

Bearded - Syed Ali Gilaani
non-bearded - Advani, Thakre
topiwala - I just threw that in
sherwaniwala - Jinnah
veiled - Ayesa Andrabi

OK. Now continue with the name-calling and exposes.

PS: About ``non-bearded`` ... it is suitably placed between ``Bearded, non-beaded, topiwala, sherwaniwala, veiled``

It shows your real character... if you were honestly suggesting non-muslims... it would have also had ... dhoti wala, half naked, gandhi cap wala... heck you didn`t even say non-veiled... even though most Muslim women, especially those who fought for Pakistan, were non-veiled.

But dear Shishapa... the integrity and incorruptibility of the man was unquestionable and generally accepted by his worst critics and opponents... friend and foe alike... both Gandhi (his rival-I don`t place much importance to his quote) and Ambedkar (his one time ally) called him ``incorruptible``... This was a view that was shared by all...

To quote Ambedkar: ``At the same time, it is doubtful if there is a politician in India to whom the adjective incorruptible can be more fittingly applied. Anyone who knows what his relations with the British Government have been, will admit that he has always been their critic, if indeed, he has not been their adversary. No one can buy him. For it must be said to his credit that he has never been a soldier of fortune. The customary Hindu explanation fails to account for the ideological transformation of Mr. Jinnah.``


Jang :

Artha Veda is what the Ismailis called the Holy Quran for the longest time .... and it is still referred to as that by some.

#275
``Ismaili faith in which he referred to the Quran as Artha Veda``

what is artha veda?

I thought Advani, Thakre did not have beard either. And last I checked they
did not call themselves Muslims.

Does a robber tell you before he is going to rob you or your house?
A robber is probably your good neighbour which you never suspected and always
thought a good guy, a law-abiding citizen.
Only if we could read what is going on a person`s mind, when he/she is going to curdle,
we could prevent so many tragedies, like saving millions lives.

``Evil comes in all shape and sizes. Bearded, non-beaded, topiwala, sherwaniwala, veiled``

I am impressed that evil only takes Muslim form.

Evil comes in all shape and sizes. Bearded, non-beaded, topiwala, sherwaniwala, veiled.
It suddenly changes colour to your detriment, giving you false impression of serenity.

A comment:

The fact of the matter is that it eats up most Indians, especially Hindus, that a man like Jinnah, a man their own leaders praised as the best ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity, a man who did not overtly appear to be any more Muslim than say the viceroy of India and who practised the Ismaili faith in which he referred to the Quran as Artha Veda... ultimately ended up making Pakistan. This takes the wind out of their hairbrained analyses on the kinds of Muslims... because the Islamic minded, the kind that described dancing as haraam, music as haraam etc i.e. Majlis-e-Ahrar, Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind, Jamaat-e-Islami etc who supported the Congress Party and its drama of ``composite nationalism`` to the hilt.


Now I come to Bolta Aina`s bakwas:

So ``Afghanistans.com`` is your source. I gave you a legal opinion. There is no way the Durand Line agreement can expire and if Afghans try to wrest control of it, they will see what we are capable of doing.

This is the old trick of the unionists... Gandhi, the casteist Hindu bigot, after failing to keep India united under Caste Hindu Rule, started promoting Afghanistan`s claims over Pakistan ... and championing Pukhtoonistan.

In the 1920s, when that hypocrite Abdul Ghaffar ``Bacha`` Khan went to Afghanistan (As part of Maulana Azad`s Fatwa claiming that Hindustan was Darul Harb), he met the King of Afghanistan, the King said - why don`t you fight to make NWFP part of Afghanistan... Bacha Khan responded: ``Why should we- we are part of India``

But in 1947... all of sudden Bacha Khan declared that NWFP was never part of India... that Pakistan`s rulers were not going to allow ``Shariat`` to be imposed in Pakistan and that to be truly Islamic the Pukhtoons should join up with Afghanistan as an autonomous unit.

Then these people self righteously claim all the nonsense they claim.

#233 MANTOLIVES

Thanks for your reference to Vienna Convention on treaties.

On reading the just first paragraph, the Treaty is defined as :-

Quote

(a) “treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation;

Unquote

The Treaty has to be governed by ``INTERNATIONAL LAW`` otherwise Vienna Convention is not applicable to it ?

The Durand Line Agreement was signed by Afghans under duress and under force from the British. That Agreement does not pass the international law and is null and void according to Vienna Convention quoted by you.

Your Witness please.

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD