Pakistan’s Territorial Integrity: Lessons from American Democracy

as with most chowk articles, this article contains high school level analysis of both u.s. as well as pak history and politics. the issue of state rights was one of the key themes in early american politics and in fact the issue was not fully resolved until nearly two hundred years after american independence when in early 1960’s, uncle sam sent federal law enforcement officers to mississippi and alabama to enforce desegregation against the wishes of the majority local white population. also the main champions of state rights were southern states who were and probably still are the most backward and corrupt states in the american union. southern politicians raised the issue of state rights enforce regressive social structure i.e. slavery/segregation and to protect corrupt local political structures.

advocates of provincial autonomy in pak have the same motives as those calling for state rights in the u.s. rural sind, baluchistan and fata are the most backward regions of pakistan both in terms of the economy as well as social structure. it is in these places that you find tribalism, feudalism, pir-fakiri, slave labor and the worst oppression against women any where in the world. and surprise surprise, its in these places that you find the strongest advocates of provincial autonomy. and obviously these people will resist kalabagh dam and gwader port because economic development is the fail safe way to bring about social change.

its also important to remember that even in their own territory, these people do not enjoy any sort of support as evidenced by election results. their agenda however is amplified by elements that bear a grudge against the pak government. these elements include external enemies of pak, politicians who don’t have a share of power ex bb and ns, secularists who blame govt for being islamic ex the ft/dt crowd, anarchists and commies, out and out nut jobs such as altaf hussain and english newspaper columnists who are bitter about the fact that rest of the society is moving ahead while they themselves are stuck in their dead end jobs that pays them rs.10,000 pm. normal pakistanis otoh have nothing but gratitude for pak fauj officers for putting their lives on the line so that the rest of us can live in peace. and i know what i am talking about because i have seen karachi before and after army operation against mqm.

response to Cut paste artist#10 by arjun_m on January 8, 2006 5:20am PT
#6 by ahmedmadani on January 7, 2006 11:36pm PT


Other Osama


ROTFLMAO....

just like Other white meat

Mr. Arjun you have lots of problems due to watching too much silly hindi movies and too much ct and paste. What you are writing does ot make sense to any body. In pakistan we are taught to write when we go to school. We do not allow students to copy answer from neighbour student.
I will like to know what is ``ROTFLMAO.....`` also all others. My cat is better than you expressing his thoughts. He shouts and asks for food and still I am sleeping then he climbs my bed and bites my hand and I give him food. See what you say does not make any sense. I have lost all respects to your IIT colleges.
I will suggest you to think before type. Its getting late, good night crude cut paste artist.
I always wish good luck that is called decent behaviour.

Yes... faisal... ordinary Pakistanis don`t have anything but gratitude for Pak Fauj....


In an unrelated event...

Earlier this morning- the wife of one of Pakistan`s many Corps Commanders visited our humble little showroom on a Sunday to look at the Mercedes Kompressor and the new Mark 1 ... the perfect cars for the salary of an honest armyman in Pakistan.

Good night....

I am in favor of Kalabagh dam and I think in the end it will be good for Sindh. The issue now boils down to trust.

What I like about this debate is that now secular and real issues are being discussed in Pakistan not the stupid Islamic issues and fundamentalist framing the debate on Huddood or any other brain fart Islamic schemes.

The debate allows Sindh and some elements in NWFP to come back to the national scene. Sindh especially the interior Sindh has no interest in religion or making Pakistan an Islamic country. Islam in Pakistan has been used to sideline the real issues. The current debate would bring secular forces back in the nation debate and as long as this debate continues, the secular elements would continue to gain the upper hand in national as well as in regional politics.

Kalabagh may be announced but it is not happening until the new elections and I think this is a good time for secular parties to cash in on issues that are important to the country.

The MQM is opposing the kalabagh because it has been asked to that to drown the Sindh nationalist voices on this issue. This ploy is not going to work and would actually intensify the provincial rights issues too.
More on this later but Athar really has no handle on the provincial autonomy or the nationalities issues in Pakistan.

very well said, before Kalabagh we in Azad Kashmir has
problems regarding royalties and settlement issues with
the federal government, although most of our people got
the promised land in elsewhere in Pakistan (especially in
Vehari, Bhurawala and Gujarkhan in Pakistan) but still
some people did not got the promised land which was promised
to people of Azad Kashmir by Islamabad and then Azad Kashmir
had problems regarding getting royalties from Islamabad which
is a standard issue now since Islamabad (wapda) has a unique?
system of setting royalties to land owners and provinces which
should be re-set as soon as possible. Then there`s another issue of
of extending Magla Dam which has been handled by politicians in
AZK (especially infamous PPP Barrister Sultan) as yet another ploy of
blackmailing central government and making it a issue although threes
some element of justification in Barrister Sultans stance against
extending Magla Dam but 70% of what he says is `bull-sh*t` and nothing
more.
The whole issue of building dam is a non-issue, even the nationalists and opposition has agreed on building more damns (which
proves that if damns are not made we in Pakistan could possibly face
a situation which is very hard to handle); to me it’s even the location of proposed Kalabagh Dam is a non-issue the real issue is
the trust in central government for obvious reasons and the roots of problems starts with the shifting of capital from Karachi to Islamabad * in Punjab *, to a very controversial way of distribution of resources (NFC Awards).
There`s even a proposal of declaring the proposed area of Kalabagh
a `Federal Area` but the central government has somehow didn`t get the
the whole point about ` trust ‘, there is an impression that Islamabad = to Punjab which should be changed.
Anyone who had been to or visited Hyderabad, Sindh would know how essential Kalabagh Dam is for Pakistan; Basha Dam is supported universally in Pakistan.If we want to learn anything from Americans we should learn how to make Supreme Court and our judiciary free from any influence .

Pakistan is three centuries behind USA.

Lessons from American democracy.{{{{{Many of the questions that were being raised of the American states in the 1780s are valid for Pakistani provinces today. }}}}

Re:-Pakistan is three centuries behind USA.

Zeena and your point is?
yes we may be backwards in terms of wealth and scientific know-how but we are
one thousand times ahead of Americans in terms of respect for elders,culture and
family values.
Zeena , either you are of slave mentality or either a Indian like arjun who whatvere reason hates Pakistan .

Good article; though it paints a very rosy picture of the formative years of the American democracy. A lot has gone on in America in the past 229 years from slavery to emancipation, from the westward expansion to the trail of tears, to the 14th, 15th and 16th amendments to the Civil Rights Movement......Americans have been through hell and back.......Things have not been that peachy for them as Mr. Osama`s article may presume, neither as democracy as seen today in America been what it had been.

America has come a long way, and Pakistan will too...

Hats off to Athar Osama Sahib for atleast thinking about it, developing a coherent thesis and presenting it... Please write more....

Asim

`` The ongoing political drama leaves a terrible taste in ones mouth and makes one wonder, why is it that we, in Pakistan, are engaged in a zero-sum game where the federation can only gain at the expense of the provinces and the provinces at the expense of the federation? Why can`t a citizen of Pakistan wear his/her dual indentities, Pakistani and a Sindhi-Baluchi-Pathan-Punjabi, with pride on his/her chest at the same time? ``

Welcome to nation building !!!

`` What would happen if Pakistan`s territorial integrity is indeed compromised? Would Sindh or NWFP or Baluchistan survive on its own? Should Sindh take the unthinkable step in protest of Punjab`s high-handedness over KBD, would it be able to guarantee any water for itself coming out of Punjab? Lets assume, hypothetically, that Punjab is indeed on the wrong of side of the KBD issue, would independent Punjab and Sindh be in any better position to sort out the water distribution among themselves and how? Would Punjab have access to the sea port that is as much a lifeline of its economy as it is Sindh`s? If Pakistan is to disintegrate, what would refrain these provinces to engage in ``water wars`` with each other? What would stop other neighboring countries, India, Iran, or even Afghanistan, from taking advantage of that situation? ``

NWFP could merge with Afghanistan. Not that it would solve any of their problems.

Baluchistan could survive on its own. It has natural gas supplies which could generate $$$ given current natural gas prices. They could collect the rent from Uncle Sam that the generals in Islamabad are currently collecting.

Sind and Punjab have to work out a mutual agreement on use of Karachi port and sharing the Indus waters. Both have a strangehold on the lifeline of the other. Punjab controls the waters. Sind controls access to the ocean.

`` When nationalists leaders raise the issue of Pakistan`s territorial integrity, they talk as if nothing would be lost to them if Pakistan disintegrates into separate countries comprising different ``nations``. Nothing can be far from the truth. Pakistan, despite its shortcomings and defects, is greater than the sum of its parts. Every province gains from the union considerably while at the same time contributing to it. Baluchistan provides natural resources to other three provinces. Sindh provides a port to the rest of the country. Punjab and NWFP contribute with its agriculture. Dividing Pakistan into separate countries would only eliminate these synergies and jeopradize the survival of each of the four provinces. At the very least, independent provinces would find themselves in considerably more hardships than what they currently face. It would expose them to the kinds of dangers that American republican leaders were aware of and worked so hard to avoid in the 1780s. ``

Pakistani Punjab and their entity called Pakistani Army would be the losers. They would lose access to the ocean. They would lose cheap Baluchi natural gas. They would lose the rent they get from Uncle Sam.

Why do you think Pakistani Army is ranting Islam, Islam, Islam ...

`` What then is the solution for Pakistan`s interprovincial rivalries? An extra-constitutional option leading to a territorial split is clearly not an solution. Pakistan`s four provinces and the federation must find answers to its problems within the country`s broader constitutional framework. This would require genuine reconciliation, compromise, and sacrifice between provinces. The bigger province, Punjab, must take the lead in sacrifice like the elder brother does for his/her younger siblings. In turn, the smaller provinces must appreciate the sacrifice of the bigger province and make compromises in national interest. Politics is the art of making compromises. We should not let the best be the enemy of the good. If the country cannot reach a compromise (yet) on KBD, lets move forward with the Basha Dam on which all provinces agree upon and, in due course of time, and with greater trust and understanding between provinces, KBD would become a reality as well. ``

Mutually benefical confederation with a lean federal government is the only long term solution.

ahmedmadani #6

`` One of way to avoid problems is to appoint some investigation commission with due report in 15 years with possibility of 10 years extension for completing report, so things can cool little and problem can be left to future. At this time building dam will play in hands of Indians who are masterminding blow up of railtracks, power poles and pipelines. It is specially bad when China engrs are working in B.Stan. Sindh separting is not going to solve any problem as then indians and sindhis can make problems more can divert water to Sindh through india and enter in near southern punjab through Sindhi territory. Also after Indus biggest source of water is Kabul river. With our friends like indians and afghans we do not needs enemies. With indian encouragement Afghans are thinking of building dam with india providing loans. That can be daggar at heart of pakistans water problem.
Your points are correct of exploitation of some by others and it is going all world over does not mean divorce is needed, what is needed is therapy of what Jinnah gave Unity , Faith and discipline and belief in two distinct nations and Islamic unity in pakistan is overriding little tribal nationalism of Jiye sindh of BLA etc. We should respect whining and moaning of Sindhi nd balochi but they need to be told sindhi port or balochi gas and minerals are not property of only local people but is property of all pakistanis. And these are national assets and no body should be allowed to damage gas line, rail, and towers. Those who do shold be tried by military courts so justice swift and fast and final. ``

I see why the Bengalis got feed up with Pakistan.

Why would not Afghans build a dam ? Don`t they have any rights to their shares of Kabul river ? After all Afghans are also Muslims ??

`` IAliBirmingham ``

`` Zeena and your point is?
yes we may be backwards in terms of wealth and scientific know-how but we are
one thousand times ahead of Americans in terms of respect for elders,culture and
family values. ``

What are you doing in Birmingham, United Kingdom ?

What is so scared about respect for elders ? America does look after its old people better than a lot of other societies.

re: this article
I am not sure if the author has read the American History. There is not much resemblance between the former 13 American Colonies of the early American Republic and the 4 Pakistani Provinces (Sindh, Punjab, NWFP, Balochistan) today.
Much of the early experience of the American colonists was shaped by common enmity with Britain much as the early history of Pak has been shaped by its enmity with India. But then Pak broke free of India as it saw itself as a muslim nation that cannot live with the hindus. Pak shaped its destiny pretty much on the lines of religion, making Islam the supreme religion of the land, denying much religious freedom to other minorities. It infact went to the other extreme of not only forcefulling converting a large section of hindus to Islam after its independence but denied freedom to Ahmediyyas who face religious presecution.

Pak is not formed by the will of its power, unlike the USA after the Revolution whose abiding motto was the sovereignity of its people. Religious freedom was respected even in the 17th century America. American Revolution was the handiwork of ordinary Americans rebelling against the economic, political sovereignty of Britain (unlike Pak being the handiwork of one single person obsessed with his hatred of Gandhi and idea of a land for muslims). Colonists even in the early 1770s (before the Revolution) were prosperous, without the aristocracy, tilteship of the British and many owned and tilled their own lands. They saw themselves very different from the British, with very different value system. Freedom was upmost in their mind. When Americans won the Revolution, George Washington, the Chief military commander, voluntarily gave up the post and desisted the temptation of becoming a monarch. In this, he had no precedence. This unique act in the annals of history put America on path to greatness.
Pak`s latest military dictator (in the line of so many before him) in a coup threw away an elected leader and the people of pak applauded then. Could this have ever happened in America or elsewhere? Pak does not have a free judiciary, a free Press (it is seemingly free in as far as the dictator allows it to be free) and the elections are never free and the present PM is elected per the will of the dictator.
Any comparison of Pak`s provinces to the 13 former American colonies is therefore laughable. Pakis can however draw important lessons as to where and how they failed in creating the kind of society that the former Colonists managed to create. In this, they may draw some useful lessons from the Indian experience in the neighboruhood where feudalism failed and democracy survives. Army in India does not call shots and is subservient to the elected leaders. Pakis do not have to go as far as the American colonies for lessons in history. They only have to look to their giant neighbour.
Sridhar

#24 by IAliBirmingham on January 8, 2006 1:50pm PT


but we are
one thousand times ahead of Americans in terms of respect for elders,culture and
family values.


Yes..the world found out...on 9/11, 7/7 etc etc...

re:#6 by ahmedmadani
Ha, ha, ha.
Ahmed ``mad``ani says:
(We should follow that if they start to cede from pakistan they should be treated as law and order problem and traeted as criminal.)
But when it comes to Kashmiris, Pakis like ``mad``ani will say that they need self-determination. why not apply self-determination uniformly across the board and say that even Sindh, Balochistan, NWFP need to have self-determination and allowed to secede if they want to.
Sridhar

No offense, but what was the point of this long article? To demonstrate that we must take a look at the Civil War scene to get a no-brainer lesson on the Pakistani situation?!!