Pervez Musharraf Ko Peace Do

And if they (Pakistani Muslims) are not, would they allow minorites to partition pakistan?
OK. That was the last question. I will shut up and listen.

One last question, what sane pakistanis advocate as solutions to various internal
problems of Pakistan with Sunni Majority now, why those same solutions were not
applicable in United India with Hindu majority then?
I mean are pakistanis provding everything to the existing minorities in Pakistan
that they were asking from Hindu majority to stay in within Indian union then like
minorities are staying in Pakistan?

Tahmad32,

Yes I agree with you. But you can`t use separatism as a solution for every problem.
Would you advocate Hindus in Pakistan and Ahmadiyas in Pakistan to form a
separate country because they have grievances with Pakistani government/governance
so far? You probably would say, the problems should be resolved within Pakistani union
and I would agree with that. That is all I am expecting from those who want to secede
from India and for ferners to desist.

Have not they been subjected to much more injustices than Muslims
were fearing in then United India?
If you want Hindus to mend their way, why not Muslims to mend their ways too?
If Congress government did mistakes and they did mess up major in Kashmir, does
not mean Kashmiris drive out Kashmir hindus and start an armed struggle to secede
with the help of outsiders?

If you want to use an excuse, you (not you specifically) may say, see there are
murderers in India, we do not want to live in this country, we want a separate country
where there will be not murderers. All I am saying is instead of always pointing fingers and
using any mistake of majority community, minority community cannot find excuses to
separate.

Around 1920/30/40, there was no neo-hindu nationalism was much less aggressive
that what you found with BJP and Modi. There was no state or territory which was
ruled by Hindu mahasabha or RSS.
I think it is time to stop beating majority community all the time for all the things and
not take responsibility by the minority community.
Instead everybody needs to work together. That is all I am saying.

Any way, last ramble from me. I think we have discussed this many times and I do
not disagree too much from your arguments ( I think).

re:#379 by tahmed32
I merely quoted what some experts feel in the matter. I am no expert and i certainly have no wish that Pak should break up, creating more problems in the neighbourhood. A nuclear armed terrotist, getting nukes from a splintered Pak is a nightmarish scenario for everyone.
Pak`s enemies are its own internal contradictions. It would be good if these are debated freely.
Sridhar

ahmedzai: greetings. I have to go now, but look forward to checking out those links you provide below to masanamathu.

further to #401 and the roots of this hindu nationalism go back more than a century - as do the roots of the partition. the path to partition started the day Allan Hume (founder of the Congress party) left on retirement for UK, and along with him his emphasis on muslim participation in the Congress. Sir Syed - no muslim chauvinist, and indeed the worst enemy of the mullahs - was then the first muslim leader to see the light and the rest is history. So I realize it wont be easy to break these generations old habits. But that is what you need to do in India if you dont want more partitions or (which is worse) a communal-strife ridden existence. (similar lessons for us in Pakistan too of course).

Masanamutho:

While the role of Pakistani mercenary army has perhaps never been discussed in the US House of Representatives, here is the role of Indian mercenary army being discussed and you guess where? you get 100/100 on guessing correctly.

http://www.dalitstan.org/journal/rights/106/210699.html

Here is what the counterparts of Pakistani mercenaries (the Indian mercenaries) doing in India:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/sep2004/mani-s15.shtml

;-)

shishapa #387 Thanks for the clarification. If India is to avoid another partition, then it would seem logical for it to understand the reasons underlying the first partition and avoid creating the same conditions again. And the underlying reason was communalism, which in turn was largely (although not completely) the result of new-found hindu nationalism. And a first step is to learn to respect other people`s religions - the widespread practice of Indian posters on chowk of denigrating muslims and their religion (and christians as well) came as a surprise to me when I first came to chowk a few years ago. Clearly you people have a major problem here. The current crisis in Kashmir was again triggered by BJP which has now learnt to respect Pakistan the hard way (i.e. after realizing that Pakistan cant be bullied by India).

But have the Indians learnt to respect the feelings of the Kashmiris?? I dont think so. Their religion is anathema to the majority of hindus it seems (at least going by chowk posts, which are not a scientific representation I agree, but the best means available nevertheless).

Arjun and masanamutho:

While Pakistanis don`t mean that killing of our innocent villagers by US armed forces is a greater Pakistani role, and we have lodged a strong protest that is a good moral and courageous thing to do, the real greater role is here to read:

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/jan2006-daily/11-01-2006/oped/o6.htm

The article starts:

`Ordinary Pakistanis first heard it from the German defence minister last month that Pakistan was scheduled to play a much bigger role in Afghanistan from April next. There were other news items saying that Pakistan would assume the command of the Coalition Maritime Naval Force (CMNF) (sic) in the Arabian Sea on April 1. This command comprises eight naval contingents from US, UK, Germany, Pakistan beside others.`


However, Pakistanis would like to agree with the final paragraph:

`When and if Pakistani soldiers assume the charge of policing Afghanistan from the NATO troops and Americans that would be the day when the accumulated dislike of Pakistan in Afghan hearts would begin to tell -- possibly on Pakistan`s basic interests. Other than pleasing the US for the time being, Pakistan can expect nothing rewarding from its Afghanistan venture. It has no business securing Afghanistan for others.`

``why the strong protest filed by the government of pakiland``

That is called PR...heck of a lot better than listening to john (s)Kerry in Dilli....or looking at the nuke tipped prick of mushy...



ROFL...

Joint operations against Pakistani villagers in Pakistani territory.. I thought Pakistani Army are used as mercenaries against others, but it looks like they are mercenaries against even their own folks..

:-))

#397

``why the strong protest filed by the government of pakiland``

That is called PR...heck of a lot better than listening to john (s)Kerry in Dilli....or looking at the nuke tipped prick of mushy...

#396 by HP on January 13, 2006 12:26pm PT



Joint operations area…some collateral damage….


joint operations? ROTFL...then why the strong protest filed by the government of pakiland?

not only are you self-deluded, you`re not clutching at imaginary straws....


heck of a lot less than surrendering the nuke program, both civilian and military….


Let`s face it..Uncle Sam will make sure neither side can use it`s nukes...which means Pakiland has to accept the status quo in Kashmir..not like it has any other choise..


Why Indians hate their independence so much?


Yup..they hate it so much that APJ Kalam is sitting at home without his briefs, getting interrogated by the boys from langley..

no..wait..that`s A.Q. Khan...

#395
“India has ``surrendered`` it`s independence in the nuke program a heck of a lot less”

heck of a lot less?? Giving up on the only thing you have is heck of a lot less…

What would be more for you: US occupation of the PM house in Dilli and John (s)Kerry running India…(That would be really scary) or Mushy brandishing his nuke tipped prick for fun?

“Pakiland is getting bombed repeatedly by US forces”

Joint operations area…some collateral damage….heck of a lot less than surrendering the nuke program, both civilian and military….

Why Indians hate their independence so much?

#393 by HP on January 13, 2006 11:47am PT


Indians agreed to surrender their independence in managing their nuke program, both military or civilian, to international supervision, control and oversight for some help in nuke energy projects from the US. ``


India has ``surrendered`` it`s independence in the nuke program a heck of a lot less than Pakiland...Don`t believe me? Ask yourself what A.Q Khan, regarded as a hero by most pakis, is doing in house arrest(being debriefed by the boys from Georgetown pike)..

Now let`s talk about how Pakiland is getting bombed repeatedly by US forces when Pakiland holds the, ahem, cards...

HP
``by establishing itself as the more important player in terms of regional and international politics, and turning a worst situation in Afghanistan around so much in its favor that the US is ensuring that the Pakistanis interference in Indian affairs is accepted by the Indians without any question.``

no doubt without pakistani support, taliban regime could not be routed so easily, and karzai admin can remain in good health (literally).

your statement is perhaps a good example of pakistani national psyche..could be because of dominance of punjab, which had been on the crossroads of so many invasions. indian overall psyche is insular, suspicious of ferners and neo-colonials, while pakistani is that of attempting to be a ``geo-political palyer`` for ferner agents.

i prefer indian approach of participating in ``stabilization`` of afganistan in road and hospital building, even at some cost of getting indian enggrs getting kidnapped once in a while. as i already said, its legit to interfere, and be willing to accept the consequences.

#392

I know Moeed. He is still a child in international affairs. He did not even talk about the things that I wrote. Read here again and cry.... as usual...Why Indians whine like cheap (you know what)s.

``Within a very short period of time, they(Indians) have allowed the Pak government to take control of the Kashmir issue, managed to lose their military superiority in a spectacular fashion amid some bravados and bovine remarks after the nuke tests and most recently Indians agreed to surrender their independence in managing their nuke program, both military or civilian, to international supervision, control and oversight for some help in nuke energy projects from the US. ``