Pervez Musharraf Ko Peace Do

#343 everyone make up their mind about what to believe, its very simple.

Break-up of India inevitable

Should we believe in Gul Agha about Pakistan or member of parliament about India?

Please read:

http://www.tamilnation.org/intframe/us/98USCongress%20Towns.htm

For information:

Gul Agha comes from a Sindhi family. He had high expectations of topping the Sindh board examinations of Higher Secondary Certificate 1979. However, his dream could not materialize, as he came in 2nd. Board examinations were topped by Syed Fouad Ali Shah (who works in IBM, USA). According to his own admission, Gul used to study 18 hours a day in order to top the board. He went into a shock and always blamed the Board officials that they topped a guy from a rich family of Sindh, referring to PPP Syeds. Btw, Syed Fouad Ali Shah is a name that definitely seems to belong to leading PPP Syed family of Sindh. He had no connections with the Syeds.

After examination, Gul Agha went to California Institute of Technology on full scholarship always carrying the chip on his shoulder.

Syed Fouad Ali Shah went to Union University in NY on full scholarship (good old days. All these schools used to have scholarships for foreign students). He married his classmate by the name of Allan, who converted to Islam. This extremely nice looking family (now with 4 children) lives in Albany, NY. Both husband and wife team worked for IBM since beginning.

I had the honor of meeting both of them for seeking advice when I was applying for scholarships to IVY league schools in 1989. Although Gul may not remember my meeting him (it was not a pleasant meeting at all arranged by his two cousins Wasiq and Wamiq), I was able to meet Syed and his wife. Very religious, patriotic and nice looking, I took Syed for a Pathan, which he was not. The wife saw me wearing long hippy hair and advised that the fashion had changed. I should carry short hair, which of course I did within 3 hours. Afterall, she was a white woman and I was an impressionable lad My job was to bow down and say yes madam :-)

As in the past, indian politicians have never claimed that they wont talk with any pakistani head of state..democratically elected or not, its not about trust. they however have a different language to talk with miltry kinds and political kinds. comments about baluchistan make sense when viewes from this angle.

just like mushy is on record about him banning terrorist orgs, indians are on record about operation hearts and mind, a free state election..very concrete steps, not a mere change of web-domain. hopefully musharaff can trust these steps and sell them in pakistan.

re: Paki politicians versus Army
Who is more corrupt: politicians or Paki Army?
Sridhar

re: Pak Army`s corrupt dealings
Those who think Pak army is clean may want to go to this link to see why Pak army is corrupt and how Paki generals have made millions
(The main charges mentioned in the petition include:

- Air Chief Marshal Abbas Khattak (retired) had received Rs180 million as kickbacks in the purchase of 40 old Mirage fighters

- Air Chief Marshal, Farooq Feroz Khan was suspected of receiving a five per cent commission on the purchase of 40 F-7 planes worth $271 million

- In 1996, the Army bought 1,047 GS-90s jeeps, at a cost of $20,889 per unit. The market value of a jeep then was only $13,000. According to the National Accountability Bureau (NAB), Pakistan’s main accountability organization, some senior Army officers made Rs. 510 million in the deal.

- One hundred and eleven Army men got 400 plots in Bahawalpur and Rahimyar Khan districts at throwaway prices, paying Rs. 47.50 per kanal (1/8th of a acre) as against the actual price of Rs15,000 to Rs20,000 (1US$=Rs. 56). Another 35,000 kanals were distributed among them.

- Six respondents got 400 kanals in the Punjab while former NAB chairman Lt. Gen Mohammad Amjad was allotted a two-kanal plot on the Sarwar Road in Lahore for just Rs. 800,000 - payable in installments over 20 years. The market value of this plot was Rs. 20 million.

- General Pervez Musharraf acquired a commercial plot worth Rs 20 million at DHA in Lahore for just Rs. 100,000, payable in 20 years. ``As mentioned in the report of defense services director-general, a loss of Rs 5 billion was incurred due to such allotments.``

- The Army awarded a contract for the purchase of 1,000 Hino trucks at $40,000 per unit while the local Gandhara Industries had offered trucks of the same specification for $25,000 a piece. In the purchase of 3,000 Land Rover jeeps in 1995, Army officials allegedly received around Rs. 2 billion as kickbacks.....)
Sridhar

re:#293 by haroonellahi
While you, HP and others are talking about fighting the battle another day, this Paki asks
should Pak be broken up?
Excerpts:
(What Replaces Pakistan?
Dissolution of Pakistan will largely bring things back into their natural national and ethnic boundaries. The Pushtun areas of Pakistan belong with the newly liberated Afghanistan. Kashmiris in India already enjoy numerous unique protections, e.g. against encroachment by migration from other parts of India. A unified Kashmir will be able to negotiate ways of maintaining its identity in India. Distinct ethnic regions in the Pakistani occupied part of the former kingdom of Kashmir, such as Baltistan and Gilgit, could enjoy greater autonomy.

A successor Pakistani Punjabi state would be far easier to contain. Bounded within plains that are easy to penetrate and police, stripped of 80% of the resources now consumed by its military, it would be far less menacing. Ironically, freed of its militaristic pretensions, it could enjoy greater economic growth and prosperity in the long run by embracing a more peaceful ideology.

The Future of Sindh
What about the future of Sindh and Pakistan-occupied Baluchistan? Baluchistan is a desert area, though rich in some mineral deposits. The bulk of Baluchi population lives on the border of Sindh and has enjoyed free movement and interchange with the Sindhi people. It is likely that the fate of these two regions is tied together, as it was in older times.

Sindh is rich in agriculture, has deposits of oil, coal and gas, and a well-developed port. It is the most industrialized region in the neighborhood. Shorn of the huge subsidy claimed by Punjab and its military, Sindh is likely to see rapid economic growth. This growth will be aided and abetted by the large number of expatriate Sindhi entrepreneurs and industrialists, including some billionaires. Sindhis have an ancient mercantile tradition, and their emphasis on pragmatism, tolerance and harmony are all useful attributes in a modern economy.

Should Sindh be a Part of India?
There are a number of arguments in favor of Sindh joining the Indian union. India is a secular, democratic country which is well-suited to the psyche of the sufi-minded Sindhis. Four months after the creation of Pakistan, 20% of the population of Sindhis was forced to migrate to India when hordes of refugees were encouraged by the Pakistani government to riot in hitherto peaceful Sindhi cities. Many of these Sindhis have settled in India and, after a long arduous struggle, they have prospered. While the diaspora Sindhis no doubt enjoy the moral and legal right of return, it is unlikely that a majority of them would now opt to migrate back to their ancestral homes. Under the circumstances, the unification of Sindh with India would allow the two groups of Sindhis to easily interact and support each other.

Unfortunately, Sindh cannot afford to unify with India in the near future. The greatest threat to Sindhis is demographic -- up to a quarter of those living in Sindh are Mohajirs, Muslims who migrated from Northern Indian provinces such as Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. The population of areas where they immigrated from continues to increase rapidly while the economic growth of those areas remains stunted. The linguistic, cultural and religious affinity of Mohajirs with their brethren in North India could make Sindh a magnet for further immigration unless Sindh is able to exercise vigorous control of its borders.

An independent Sindh will serve as a natural conduit for oil and gas pipelines from energy rich Central Asia to energy starved South Asia. Without an entrenched bureaucracy, Sindh will rapidly lead the way to economic expansion in South Asia. Most significantly for the rest of the world, given its long peaceful sufi tradition, an independent Sindh will provide a bulwark against fanaticism and promote peace and prosperity.

Policy makers would do well to focus their energy on the unenviable but inevitable task of dismantling Pakistan as expeditiously as possible.

Gul Agha is Professor in the Department of Computer Science at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and a faculty affiliate of the UIUC Program in South Asian and Middle-Eastern Studies. He is active in Sindhi-American organizations.)
Sridhar

#334 by GT

Thank you for your support. There were “technical problems” with my account and it was temporarily removed.

I appreciate and thank chowk staff for working through all the issues and taking care of them diligently.

Thanks.

Salim

I thought about it........ FV is NOT exactly what anybody would call ``objective``..... But you are right - no matter what her views are - she is still Indian and will remain so as long as she wishes.....

#335 mohar11 {``But FV is not paki [...or so she claims..] - why is she so willing to bend over for the dictator?... ``}

Mohar,
Maybe FV, being a fair-minded and objective person, is able to comprehend this dichotomy without being a Paki. She travels considerably and from her articles seems to be very informed about world events. Please don`t imitate the Pakis by becoming more intolerant than they are. Just because FV has ideas that show flexibility from the ``normal`` Indian nationalist perspective doesn`t make her wrong. Please understand that Pakis accuse me of being ``Indian.`` Let`s try to be objective.

salim
[.....Let me try to explain why many Pakistanis prefer the benign dictatorship of Musharraf to ... ``democracy`` of BB and NS...]

But FV is not paki [...or so she claims..] - why is she so willing to bend over for the dictator?...

And again - taking example of BB/NS to argue in support of benign dictatorship is just atrocious :)....

FV

Since I do not know the appropriate forum I am posting this message here. Why has HP been `removed` and what are his/her `repeated` violations of chowk`s policy?

Please do take it as a `constructive` criticism: you seem to be `deleting` more posts than the previous editor (and I may be wrong here). Under you, I expected more fireworks. Of course I understand that ultimately you have to judge what goes and what does not. I would prefer less deletions. You have been bold with `hamzaad`s` article, what made you remove `HP`. The person clearly states her/his views.

GT.

#332 ballu khan {``why should any one become a dictator`s advocate.......accept the dictator`s views on `democracy` .....and accepting an almost seductive view that a `benevolent` dictator always fares better that a `democratically` elected assembly.........``}


Ballu Bhai,
It sure seems silly, doesn`t it? What sane people, when not in power themselves or gaining from its imposition, would prefer to be ruled by a dictator than by a democratically-elected government? Most people in the world will find it hard to comprehend. Let me try to explain why many Pakistanis prefer the benign dictatorship of Musharraf to the atrocious authoritarian ``democracy`` of BB and NS. Mushy is a dictator who limits his own power using logic, conscience, and some level of affection for the country. BB and NS are politicians who recognized no limits to their power except the military. They behaved irrationally, had no conscience, and pillaged Pakistan without mercy. They chased out any feeling that the people of Karachi may have had for Pakistan and its survival. Unfortunately, Mushy is following the same path, while catering to the Punjabi hegemonists, in brutally enforcing the might of the military on Baluchistan and Northern Areas. Just ask the victim of any beating - he would prefer that the beatings stop altogether. Meanwhile, he prefers the one who hits only once a day rather than the cruel one who hits him ten times a day.

why should any one become a dictator`s advocate.......accept the dictator`s views on `democracy` .....and accepting an almost seductive view that a `benevolent` dictator always fares better that a `democratically` elected assembly.........I am surprised because it shows an amnesia towards the actions of the dictator and eulogises the dramatic discourses which Mushy so often belts out for those willing to feign amnesia..........but why?

I am sorry if gullible Pakistani citizens are taken by such discourses.......atleast indian state have been rightly sceptic and evaluating actions and NOT taking the bombastic claims of this commondo general at it`s face value............................I think the only way to deal with Mushy is only by looking at the ground realities and the consequential actions that flow from his kashmiri jehadi outfits..........

and to say that NS or BB would not have been better is to again feign amnesia.........as if army was not recruiting and controlling all the jehadi groups.......and that BB or NS were running the jehadi camps of their own without the army asking for them.........NS did a fantastic thing during Kargil- he made the General back off- to ``Lay -Off`` as he later threatened .........no army General would have done that without cindering it`s populace with nukes..........NS was responsible for making the army back out of kargil........he had some civilian control over this rogue army.....but not for long......now this army has gone overbaord....it has destroyed all civilian institutions........and we find FV admiring this dictator..........Pakistanis respect Mush not because what he is ...but because they fear that he could have been even worse.........and this slavish mentality of fear of the MASTER- the so called benevolent dictator- has been drilled down in the common population by the conservatives in every third world country..............with ample help from the sychophants of the dictator within the journalistic community.......

Farzana, read Behram`s post, 329 and get some akal, I tought u had enough akal to see musshy double games.

I need not write a long interact to prove that I actually read this article. I can just write one word: demented. The author needs psychiatry.

Anyway here are more comments:

{Why can we not trust Pervez Musharraf? }

Because an journalist working for an american newspaper was killed by a pakistani terrorist group it is difficult for *any* jornalist to investigate terrorist groups in pakistan. Basis of trust is information. Journalists make this information.

{two countries would jointly ensure that there was no terrorism in the Valley. }

All that is asked of POP that the he keeps promise he gave to POTUSA: that he will dismantle terrorist outfits in Pakistan. Where is the need of ``jointly`` ensuring anything. Pahale To Apane Country Me Jo Karnaa Hai Wo To Karake Dikhaao. Baad Me ``jointly`` Kuchh Bhee ensuring Kee Baat Karenge.

{It raises the question as to how Pakistan can ensure peace if it is not involved in terrorism. }

It is involved. Now you are lying. Pakistan is still involved. In your demented mind a statement of POP is truth. But a statement of PMOI or any official of GOI is a lie???

Many demented minds hallucinate because actions their minds fantasize are seen by their minds as *actually* having been completed. Your demented mind sees actions of a foreign president as having been actually been completed. You must be uniquely sick. What is next? FV telepathically advising POP?

* * *

{“But,” Musharraf may well ask, “How can I arrest people in your country?” }

He has to only ensure dismantling of terrorist orgs.

{That is the point when President Musharraf should have put an end to the conversation. }

Please establish a telepathic link with POP and Musharraf will be taking your advice. Better still get a radio frequency microcomputer chip implanted in your head which will telepathically advise him to shut up at appropriate time. I agree with you. POP is talking too much and doing too little.

{Why would he encourage terrorism? }

Have you not heard of the theory of bleeding by thousand cuts?

{We want him to. We have to justify our defence expenditure. Successive governments are known to make a killing in arms deals while pretending to protect the country. If the country is so protected that the amount spent on one goddamn glacier is more than that spent on health-care, then why are the alleged 140 terrorist outfits operating inside the country? How did they get here? What kind of an army do we have? }

Sorry I dont see causal relationship here. May be your demented mind has some einstein theory?

{Do terrorists seek the permission of the government before they start operations? }

No they dont. But they can be stopped within 48 hours if source country really wants to stop them. If their planning and training outfit can be stopped, their funding can be stopped, then they cannot work.

{If we have evidence, why do we not declare war on Pakistan? Fewer people get killed in the wars than those that have died during the years of insurgency. }

Declaring war is a military decision. Thank God (or whatever an atheist is supposed to thank), India`s military decision makers are not in your direct telepathic communication.

OTOH Pakistan Kaa Number Lugg Hee Jaane Waalaa Hai. Sooner or later Pakistan will be colonized by USA. We will leave dirty work of waging war against Pakistan to west. Pakistan is in their list.

{He says: demilitarisation is essential for an end to terrorism. }

Sorry I dont see causal relationship here.

{We say: there can be no movement forward until terrorism is stopped. }

Who says so?

{- If he does do so, then how do we deal with local militants? Will the killings stop? Will the strength of the armed forces then be reduced? What excuse will we give to the people of Jammu and Kashmir? }

Local militant`s capacity of doing anything will be reduced 90 percent if terror orgs in Pakistan are dismantled. People of J&K know by now why military is there.

{Incidentally, Musharraf has gone on record to say that he has banned many such organisations and those that have come up under different guises are in the ‘watch list’. He also stated that although he cannot give a certificate, he would ensure that if any such incident occurred he would himself bring the organisation/person to book. }

A liar going on record!

{He has made these comments on a public forum before the cameras. }

So?

{If anything, he is in trouble. It is not as though suddenly the terrorists will organise and unionise themselves and imagine that the Indian government will be sleeping. }

He sure is in trouble. And GOI is not sleeping.

{- Do we have a mechanism in place to prevent state-sponsored terrorism? Why are the people responsible for it still in positions of power? }

Of ``cross-border terrorism`` and ``state-sponsored terrorism``. Of Apples and Oranges.

Of ``state-sponsored terrorism`` I am afraid you will have to work within Indian constitution. Just in case you did not know India is a democracy.

{According to one report, “Former national security adviser Brajesh Mishra…went to the extent of saying that the talks were in ‘jeopardy’ unless terrorism was controlled, and an assurance extracted from Islamabad. This is indicative of the pressure on the UPA government from within.” }

Talks will be in jeopordy. So? Who cares? May be POP should care. He is in power for short period. Soon he will run out of excuses to hold on to his Kursi. Let him do some good work for Pakistan while still in power.

{Try and see it in a balanced perspective. With the exception of Kashmir, there has never been official sympathy expressed for any insurgent group in India by Pakistan. }

And that is why an Islamist was arrested in Hyderabad in connection with the recent Bangalore shootout.

{The uprising in Baluchistan goes back to the 70s; we felt no concern at the time. Suddenly, we wake up and start questioning the authority of the Pakistani military to use guns and helicopters against the innocents. }

In 70`s was there use of helicopter gunships?

{wasn’t there a move to make Mumbai a separate state?}

When was this? Initially India did fumble in drawing state boundries. Redrawing of state boundries simply means that India is capable in holding dialogue between disparate groups. Not all disparate groups are succesful but political process is there. Law is there. And experience in redrawing boundries is there. I think so a lot of redrawing is still to be done. More bite sized states means a bad CM has less area where he can do mischief. India also needs to work out how to deal with infiltration. How about laws for frontline districts which allows centre to deploy military in these districts?

{What did we achieve by dragging the Baluchi issue to the fore? The Pakistani Interior Minister Aftab Ahmed Sherpao said, ``India is supporting the miscreants in Balochistan.`` }

Miscreants or not. India should not support any disparate group in Pakistan. Here I agree that India achieved nothing. It is in the interest of India to have a united Pakistan. Let Pakistan by all means self-destruct. But let not blame for its destruction fall on India. Unless there is huge refugee influx India should not care.

---

Abbreviations used:

POP = President of Pakistan
PMOI = Prime Minister of India
GOI = Government of India
OTOH = On the other hand
CM = Chief Minister

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HA12Df01.html

US turns against Musharraf
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf seized power in a military coup in 1999 and, as commander-in-chief of the armed forces, still in effect rules as a military dictator.

Musharraf`s firm grip on the affairs of state has until now served Washington`s interests well, as he has been able to steer the country into the US camp as an ally in the ``war on terror``.

However, with the Taliban nowhere near defeated in Afghanistan and Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda still unbroken (the two major reasons that the US solicited Pakistan`s assistance in the first place), the US is looking at its allies in Islamabad in a new light:

Musharraf may be more the problem than the solution.

An indication of how things have slipped in the region is news that Afghan President Hamid Karzai has openly called for a truce with Taliban leader Mullah Omar. This was not how events were supposed to play out.

According to sources close to the power corridors in Washington who spoke to Asia Times Online, the administration of US President George W Bush is now convinced that a weaker Pakistani army is as necessary now as a powerful one was when Islamabad did a U-turn on its support for the Taliban soon after September 11, 2001.

This realization has taken root over the past few months, and developments since last November have been enough to set alarm bells ringing among the military leadership of Pakistan.

Goings-on in Balochistan
Rebellious tribesmen in the restive but resource-rich province of Balochistan have for decades challenged the writ of the central government in Islamabad. The Baloch insurgents have traditionally received weapons via Kandahar in Afghanistan, and via sea smuggling routes.

The Pakistani army has engaged in a number of operations in Balochistan over the years, and the most recent is continuing. The involvement of the military is highly unpopular not only among Balochis, but also among many segments of Pakistani society.

What is new in Balochistan, and which is causing concern in Islamabad, is the emergence of two sons of insurgent tribal chief Nawab Khair Bux Muri as organizers of a strong financial network to fund the insurgency.

``The whole operation of financing the Baloch insurgency is directed from Qatar, although this is a very unlikely place. One of the sons of Khair Bux Muri - Gazn Muri - has been shuttling between Qatar and the UAE [United Arab Emirates] and is the main financial link between the insurgents in Balochistan, where command is in the hands of a brother, Balaach Muri,`` a top Pakistani security official told Asia Times Online.

``The real question, though, is not the transmission of money, but from where Gazn Muri is getting this kind of huge money. The answer lies in the activities of another brother, Harbayar Muri, who is based in London.``

Although the official would not spell it out in as many words, he was questioning how Harbayar Muri could raise funds in Britain, where there is a negligible Balochi expatriate community. It was a clear hint at the involvement of Western intelligence agencies, which have strong centers of operations in Qatar-UAE and London.

Political maneuvering
The US is also making some backroom political moves in relation to Pakistan`s interests in the region.

According to a contact who spoke to Asia Times Online, a person close to the US Central Intelligence Agency paid a low-profile visit to New Delhi in the third week of December and briefed strategic planners on Washington`s plan to try to curtail the role of the Pakistani army, while at the same time renewing support for democratic forces in Pakistan.

India`s cold shoulder on the diplomatic front toward Pakistan and a policy statement against the military operation in Balochistan was an immediate outcome. Islamabad promptly responded by accusing India of meddling in Balochistan, charges that Delhi strenuously denied.

The same person then visited Islamabad and held high-level meetings with political personalities. On his return to the US he stopped over in Dubai in the UAE and held detailed meetings with former Pakistani premier Benazir Bhutto, who lives there.

A sudden upsurge in the activities in Pakistan of the Alliance for the Restoration of Democracy - which Bhutto supports - followed.

Musharraf`s mystique
The US first made contact with Musharraf in a meaningful way when he was still Corps Commander Mangla and he approached the Americans through a Pakistani mediator. Musharraf had no particular request, but the move was seen as ``unusual and meaningful``.

The US concluded first that he was ambitious and only wanted power, and that he had a flawed, ``split`` vision.

US officials noted that to build a constituency in the Pakistani Army, Musharraf embraced the Kashmir issue and enthusiastically supported the liberation movement there.

Last year`s earthquake in Kashmir, in which the extensive jihadi influence in Pakistan-administered Kashmir was made clear (they played a significant part in relief operations), convinced the Americans that the Pakistani army would never back out from its strategic activities in Kashmir through supporting the armed struggle in the Indian-administered part of the Valley.

Musharraf, who derives much of his legitimacy from the army, simply cannot afford to abandon this cause. The militancy will continue.

In this regard, the US noted the ill-fated Pakistani army venture into Kargil in Kashmir in 1999, which was conceived by Musharraf shortly before he took power. Pakistan believed that India would respond to the aggression by going to the peace table, but instead it launched its troops in a full-out assault, quite ready to go to all-out war. Pakistan pulled back its troops from the ill-conceived operation.

On the domestic front, the Musharraf administration in essence facilitated the formation of the the six-party alliance, the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA), which made impressive political gains in the general elections of 2002.

The aim was to scare the Americans by pointing to the emergence of Islamic fundamentalism in order to garner US support for Musharraf`s uniform.

Similarly, the sweeping defeat of the MMA in local elections late last year amid widespread claims of fraud was to show the Americans that Musharraf had the ability to outwit fundamentalism. In this game, Musharraf`s split vision does not allow him to visualize what kind of a message he is really passing on to Washington.

According to Asia Times Online information, Washington has now decided that the best outcome would be for a new man to replace Musharraf, 64, as chief of army staff, and at the same time to encourage liberal democratic forces to take over parliament.

As for Musharraf, the ideal way out for him is to become a civilian constitutional head of the country.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Bureau Chief, Pakistan Asia Times Online. He can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002@yahoo.com