Pervez Musharraf Ko Peace Do

#12 by HP on January 8, 2006 10:02pm PT


Indians neither have the political will nor the military muscle to change anything on the ground.


Indians don`t need to change squat...India is the status quo power...

To quote the great Jinnah: Kashmir is Pakiland`s jugular vein...and a good part of the vein is in India`s control...

Farzana going to the mound for her country and her dictator...color me shocked...

#37 by antamazol on January 8, 2006 11:19pm PT


as far as kashmir is concerned , musharraf is keen to solve it .it`s India who is not ready to leave that part.


Yup...bab bad India...won`t give to Pakistan on a platter what it failed to win in repeated wars and insurgencies...

YLH
[....these two will win India a lot more friends... it will win India a friend like me...]

Yep .... with friends like you, India probably wouldn`t need any enemies ....

HP/27
[.... I just don’t think Indian have any ability to even influence that area slightly. ]

Probably not..... but then don`t be too sure..... you pakis have history of making such assumptions to your own detriment.......India won`t cross border - 1965 war..... Defence of east lies in west....strategic depth....1 paki = 10 hinud.... and more

Re:faisaluno#42

Ha ha!! Angoor khattey hain.....Grapes are sour!!

What happened to hoisting Pak flag on Red Fort? Has ke liya Pakistan, lad ke lenge Hindusan? Phat gayi?

What happened to Afghanistan and strategic depth? Phir se Phat gayi?

What happened in 1971? Poor Niazi begging in front of Arora? What about Kargil? Nawaz Sharif wetting his chaddis in front of Clinton....He he.....

Go and give medals to your army!! They are indeed the bravest. They are the pride of the muslim world, after all they can conquer baloch tribes and poor mohajirs....ha ha......

Having watched the Musharaf/Thapar one-on-one on IBN television (website is ibnlive dot com . . .) I would like to put forth that the issue is more whether Pakistan can now trust Musharaf or not.

The body language and ready repartee was much better a few years ago.

It really doesn`t matter whether India trusts him or not anymore. Opinions and beliefs may differ, but the destination seems to be quite clear.

For all this talk of Kashmir, shouldn`t the pakis be concerned about a foreign army bombing and killing paki citizens in Paki territory?

Pakistan protests to U.S. over border firing

SLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan has lodged a strong protest with U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan after cross-border firing over the weekend killed eight people.

U.S. authorities had denied their troops were involved in the firing on Saturday in the restive, semi-autonomous North Waziristan tribal region, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam told a regular briefing on Monday.

Although Pakistan did not know who was behind the firing, U.S.-led forces were responsible for the area, she said.

``We have also lodged a strong protest with coalition forces in Afghanistan,`` she said.

``We have protested to coalition forces because they are responsible for security on the other side,`` she said.

On the day of the incident in the Mir Ali area, residents said they believed a helicopter gunship attacked the house of a religious scholar who supports Afghanistan`s Taliban guerrillas.

Eight people, including a woman, were killed and nine wounded, residents said at the time. The scholar was not killed, they said.

Aslam confirmed that eight people had been killed.

Pakistani authorities were also investigating reports from residents that a foreign helicopter had landed on the Pakistani side of the border on Saturday, she said.

Dear dishonest malik (and I don`t mean Veeresh who is also a dishonest malik):

Did you not read the post 2 in entirety...


The problem is that his fashion is arbitrary and therefore I am not going to put my money on him...


Sorry to disagree with you but if India really wants to make peace with Pakistan, here is what it needs to do:

1- While demonising Pakistani Military, don`t demonise Pakistan and its people.

2- Instead of clamouring for the rights of ``oppressed groups``, imagined or real, call for and forcefully call for the revival of Pakistan`s constitution and its status as a democracy...


Because these two will win India a lot more friends... it will win India a friend like me... and there are many like me.

I am highlighting it for the dishonest crook ...

Like Reagan said - ``trust but verify``.....since verification on Mushy has failed repeatedly - naturally, nobody trusts him.... I mean - pakis themselves don`t trust him [he told them something about the doffing the uniform, but enver did].... the world is puzzled over his double-faced actions on terrorism.....

so what the f*** is the lady ranting about?.....

re: this article
Another crap and like all craps are, this one stinks from a mile.
Looks like this author is clearly saying Mushyrat is good and Indian establishment is bad. AT least that is how i read it. Not surprising considering what her affiliations are.
Look at this statement:
(Let us stop this charade. If we cannot trust President Musharraf, then let us be honest and upfront and tell him, “Look sir, you are a liar, a cheat, a dictator. We are a peace-loving nation; non-violence is our anthem. There is no common ground. We’ll take a raincheck when every citizen in our country is healthy, happy and prosperous. When no bullet is fired, no innocent dies, no one is wrongfully arrested.” )
What to make of the above except that this wretched person has willfully distorted everything that Indians consider sacred.
Mushyrat is a dictator and one who wants to solve the Kashmir problem in his nation`s favor but does not know how. He tried force (Kargil) that failed miserably. So, he is now trying diplomacy, an art in which he, pardon my language, suck$.
In this interview with Karan Thapar Mushy boy looks confused as
Thapar whips Mushy A$$ into shape
Excerpts:
(President Musharraf: Yes, there are some, because we believe in the independence of the press. You are talking about The Herald. Take The Herald and read it, do you see a single positive article? Whereas so many positive things are going on in Pakistan. So, leave that aside. We have let independence be, because we hope that maturity is coming in.Now, you have spoken about Manshera and you have spoken about LeT operating there for earthquake relief. LeT is not operating, it is Jamat-ud-Dawa.

Thapar: But it is the same organisation under a new name.

President Musharraf: No. Yes, I know that but it is not a banned organisation.

Thapar: But they have just changed name and continued?

President Musharraf: Well, it has linkages but it`s not the same. It has its linkages as long as it is there. It has not even been banned abroad. LeT is a banned organisation in the UN. This one is not banned.

Thapar: But it`s the same organisation, with the same man as the head.

President Musharraf: No, If they are there and they are carrying out relief operations, and they are doing a good job, I have no reason to stop anyone who is not banned and doing a good job or relief in the people. Why should I stop anyone? So, that`s the issue. Now, when you spoke of training camps, by the way this earthquake is exactly in that area, Manshera area. There are dozens of helicopters and people from all over the world operating there. US is also flying helicopters. Have they seen any training camp in Kashmir or on this side.

Thapar: I want to quote you from US documents the November status report of the 9/11 commission, ``Two months after the earthquake, terrorists from Pakistan carried out operations in Kashmir.`` The same thing was echoed six months earlier by the International Crisis Group; I know you don’t like them so I won’t remind you what they said. I am quoting the American 9/11 instead.

President Musharraf: This is wrong. Absolutely wrong, they were sympathisers here certainly. Over the 15 years, whatever has gone on. We have come a long way as I have said. There are no training camps and there is nothing happening across the borders. And the proof of it is that in azaad Kashmir, all over azaad Kashmir, Mujafarabad area, Bagh area, Rawalcoat area, these are our forward areas. If you go and visit the places, and see the foreigners traveling around. Have they seen in training camp in Manshera. They are flying all over the place. I challenge anyone to say that comment now.

Thapar: You began this interview by saying `believe me or believe someone else`, I, for the purpose of this interview, will believe you. Others will make up their minds themselves. Let me put in like this, if there are no training camps, if you have actually done everything that you can to stop terrorism, and it’s a close chapter as you said, then what assurance can you give the Indian government verbal or otherwise so that they believe you that terror is not being used as a weapon, the Jehadi outfit are not used as weapon.

President Musharraf:I have given an assurance umpteen number of times. I have given this assurance to Prime Minister so many times and if he doesn’t believe and he believes other, well it’s a sad story. But if the gaze is what happens in your part of Kashmir, the Indian-held Kashmir as we call it, over the terrorist activity there or the bomb blast in Delhi or any other place and you blame us as having sponsored that, that is absolutely baseless.

Thapar: And they do blame you.

President Musharraf: Yes they do blame organisations here.

Thapar: And you are saying it is baseless.

President Musharraf: It is absolutely baseless.

Thapar: So you are giving an assurance to the Indian people.

President Musharraf: It may be some organisation of Pakistan here, which is banned, that may be involved. Now I can’t guarantee that. We would like to move against them. That is my assurance. We would like to move against any militancy, against any civilian, anywhere in India or world.

Thapar: You are saying that if it’s happening, it is happening without your support, without your approval. And you will continue to take effort to ban those organisations, which should be banned. But somehow manage to operate.

President Musharraf: Yes, absolutely.

Thapar: That’s a guarantee.

President Musharraf: Yes, absolutely.

Thapar: The Indian people are listening to you.

President Musharraf: Absolutely, they should listen to me and I have banned, its me who has banned all the organisations. And I am prepare to ban anyone who is involved and we are keeping watch on this Jamat-ud-Dawa, because the are on the watch list and we have restricted; we are watching them very carefully. They are only involved in relief efforts and nothing else.

Thapar: And as you said, the moment you discover they are doing something more than relief, something that’s tantamount the terrorism, you will ban them.

President Musharraf: Yes, absolutely.)
Mushyrat is a dirty pig. That is why his reliability quotient is zero. Nobody in his/her right sense will believe him. Nobody in US foreign policy desk (South asian bureau) believes him though he is needed to do their dirty job.
I want to touch on the theme of India having many insurgencies. Author of this article does not seem to differentiate between the insurgencies in India (which is India`s internal affair) and the one in Kashmir which is kept active by Pakistan. BTW, I would love this author to narrate to us the 19 insurgencies in India. Only some are of any significance. Rest, like the Telengana are easily contained. Naga insurgency is perhaps the longest lasting but even they are looking now to a peaceful settlement.
(What did we achieve by dragging the Baluchi issue to the fore? The Pakistani Interior Minister Aftab Ahmed Sherpao said, ``India is supporting the miscreants in Balochistan.`` )
If Pak is interfering in India`s internal affairs, why can`t India pay back in the same coin. Pak often talks about human rights violations in Kashmir.
Terrible human rights violations are happening in Balochistan as the above link clearly shows, with some graphic images that would make anyone shudder. India should interfere in Balochistan because of human rights issues and to help Balochis attain their dream of self-determination.
Sridhar

re:#4 by Mantolives
For Manto`s eyes only:
Why India is a better place for muslims than Pakistan
Excerpt:
a comment by a Paki (or perhaps an enlightened Indian muslim)
(The emergence of Pakistan on the map of the this world is a spot on the face of this civilized world. As long as Pakistan ia alive, there will be no peace persist in the south Asian region. Pakistan will continiue her illegitmate adventurism and nefarious design to destabilize the governments in the region. Pakistan will literally produce more fundamentalists in order to creat distrbances for India and Afghanistan as well. The Balochs are being sufferred since the unfortunate emergence of this illigitimate country and also the creation of this country became a curse for Afghanistan and India. I strongly believe that the extiniction of this useless country will be in the interest of the world in general and south asian region in particular)
Sridhar

rsridhar...

Quoting some Balochi dissident is all fine and dandy... but what are you going to tell these dead Mooslums ?

Versey is beiung true and faithful to her quam. Nothing more needs to be said. She fights for her side. We fight for our side. She has her beliefs. We have ours. And the twain shall never meet. As simple as that.

re:(#20 by Mantolives on January 8, 2006 10:22pm PT
Sadna ... look at yourself... you are up in the middle of the night trying to drive home an esoteric point about Musharraf to feel good about yourself..

Meanwhile your countrymen are brutally murdering and burning alive Christians and Muslims in India...

Shame on you.)
For Manto`s eyes only:
Atrocities against christians in Pakistan
Excerpts:
(Nuns, teachers and 23 terrified schoolgirls crammed into a small upstairs room of the besieged convent as more than 1,500 men, incensed by rumours of Qur`an desecration, swarmed outside. Fr Dilawar watched from the roof as they smashed the altar of the parish church, tore up copies of the Bible and shattered the stained-glass windows. They sprayed fuel over his house and a girls` school next door. Minutes later flames were licking the walls and black smoke filled the sky.

Article continues
Finally they crashed through the heavy convent door, sending the priest running for safety into the room where nine nuns were praying. ``They tried to break the door down but did not succeed. Otherwise we could have all been killed,`` he said.

The rampage at Sangla Hill earlier this month has shocked Pakistan`s Christian community and highlighted the fragile position of religious minorities in an overwhelmingly Muslim country. Two other churches - one Presbyterian, the other Salvation Army - and at least six Christian houses were also destroyed in normally peaceful market town about 140 miles south of Islamabad. Most worrying the violence lasted several hours but local police were unable, or unwilling, to stop it.)
While chrisitans in Pak are on the run,
Paki men are killing their own women with impunity
(Killings in the name of honour

In August 1998, Zarina 0and her alleged paramour, Suleiman, were killed in village Gul Mohammad Brohi, Larkana district, by Zarina`s three brothers.

In April 1998, a young man in the Punjab village Chak No. 65, axed his mother, Ghulam Bibi, to death after she was traced by her family and brought back home following her supposed elopement with a man.

In Kot Addu, near Multan, Naziran, a mother of six was axed to death by her brother on suspicion of an illicit relationship in November 1997.

On 29 April 1999, Shama Bibi, 16, wife of Saif Khan, living in Kahuta, Punjab, was shot by her husband on suspicion of her having an illicit relationship. She received bullet injuries in her abdomen and her condition was stated to be critical; it is not known if she survived.

On 6 January 1999, Ghazala was set on fire by her brother in Joharabad, Punjab province on suspicion of illicit relations with a neighbour. The burned and naked body reportedly lay unattended on the street for two hours as nobody wanted to have anything to do with it.

In Pakistan, hundreds of women, of all ages, in all parts of the country and for a variety of reasons connected with perceptions of honour are killed every year. The number of such killings appears to be steadily increasing as the perception of what constitutes honour - and what damages it - steadily widens. Often honour killings are carried out on the flimsiest of grounds, for instance when a wife does not serve a meal quickly enough or when a man dreams that his wife betrays him (see below). As state institutions - the law enforcement apparatus and the judiciary - have dealt with such crimes against women with extraordinary leniency, and as the law provides many loopholes for murderers in the name of honour to get away, the tradition remains unbroken. In fact, more and more killings committed for other motives take on the guise of honour killings on the correct assumption that they are rarely -- and if so, only lightly -- punished.)
Sridhar

I hope Indian politicians and indian people never trust Musharraf and never take anything he says at the face value.