Pervez Musharraf Ko Peace Do

re:#25 by faisaluno
MMS is a humble man who has risen by hardwork. He is one of the few diehard honest people in India, literally incorruptible.
He believes that Mushy wants to do something good for Pak. That may be true but Mushy does not know how to go about it. Being a dictator for a long time is the best way to repeat another 1971. Mushy thinks he is always right (see the interview with Thapar where he is saying even people like Ayaz Amir are a joke!), a sign of megalomania.
Sridhar

Rsridhar...

Yes absolutely- it is a blot on the Pakistani nation... but I thought we were talking about Muslims... Please also point out whether thousands of them were burnt alive as was the case in Gujurat... where enmasse burning was routine.

And what of these boys- they were not even Muslim... why were they burnt alive?

INDIA: Shame on India: Children Burnt Alive by Extremists

AHRC Urgent Appeal Against Attack on Religious Minorities

The Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) condemns the increasing violent killings of Christian minorities in India. The Commission calls on the Indian government to immediately stop the killings and respect human rights of the minority communities.

We are requesting the central and state governments to ensure that impartial investigations are carried out into all allegations of violations against the Christian and Muslim minorities and that anyone found responsible be brought to justice.

AHRC is shocked and seriously concerned about the increasing religious violence that led to the recent killings of foreign missionaries.

On 24 January 1999 Australian Protestant missionary Graham Stewart Staines, 58, and his two young sons, Philip, 10, and Timothy, 6, were burnt alive to death inside a van they were sleeping. Since 1965 Staines had helped treat victims in leprosy area. According to reports, the police have arrested 47 suspects who are members of a Hindu nationalist group, Bajrang Dal, in connection with the Staines killings in the eastern Orissa state.

Background Information

The existence of Hindu extremism within ultra-nationalist political parties or parties attracted by ultra-nationalism like the Bharatiya Janta Party (BJP, or Indian People`s Party), Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP, or World Hindu Council), Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS, or National Volunteers Association) and Shiv Sena is a serious threat to religious tolerance.

India is a nation of diverse religions and languages governed by a secular State. The 1949 Constitution of India declares the nation to be a ``sovereign secular State.`` Article 15 declares that ``the State shall not discriminate against any citizens on grounds only of religion....`` There is no law banning proselytism by 23 million Indian Christians, but the government has refused to admit new resident missionaries since the mid-1960s.

On 2 September 1997, in Dumka, Bihar, a Jesuit priest, Father Swaminathan Christudas, vice-principal and hostel superintendent of St. Joseph’s School, was beaten with sticks and forced to parade naked.

In March 1998, the pro-Hindu Bharatiya party gained power in Gujarat. That year alone Hindu extremists in the state launched 30 attacks on Christians. According to reports, police did not attempt to protect Christians from extremist attacks.

On 30 October 1998, members of Bajrang Dal attacked a convention of the Alpha Missionary Society. Although police were present, the delegates were beaten with sticks, belts, chains and fists by assailants. Forty people were injured. None of the Hindu extremists were arrested, instead others who came to inquire about the attack were arrested, detained and beaten.

There were also other incidents of attack that missionaries were harassed, churches and copies of the Bible burnt in Gujrat, women religious molested in Uttar Pradesh and four nuns raped in Madhya Pradesh. Two Christians, Rani Maria in Madhya Pradesh and K.T. Thomas in Bihar

re:#60 by Mantolives
Well,
Indians kill some, u guys kill some of your own. All for a good cause.
Sridhar

re:#65 by Mantolives
Human violations occur in India and they are investigaged. It ain`t a perfect world and some of us are aware of this. You will not find me trying to justify violence.
What happens in Pak is very different. It occurs in the name of religion and there is little legal redressal. Violence against women fall in a different category. There is no legal redressal at all.
Sridhar

So you are saying Indian Muslims are not Indian enough?

I knew you ascribed to Gandhian philosophy in full measure- ``I am a Hindu therefore a true Indian`` -

Rsridhar 67?

So the Muslims killed in Gujarat and the Australian Priest burnt alive were for ``Secular reasons``?

Wonderful.

re: Mushyrat on rape cases in Pakistan
Mushy says women in Pak get raped to become rich!
Only in Pak can a ruler say this and get away with it.
Excerpts:
(He said that rape was a ``money-making concern`` and many argued it was a way to get money and a visa to emigrate.

Pakistan`s most-high profile rape victim, Mukhtar Mai, told the BBC no woman could subject herself to ``such a horrendous experience`` to make money.)
Pakis must believe in what he says. Why else would they tolerate him and allow him to continue.
Sridhar

Yes- Musharraf is an a-hole. Hence my post #3

#70 by rsridhar on January 9, 2006 7:08am PT

The funniest thing about that was that he denied the whole thing and he expected the world to be in awe of his presidential status and accept his denial.....like they are in Pakiland...

The Washington Post smacked him down when they posted the audio of the interview..He had to cancel a newsconference in NZ because the reporters were sure to question him about this..

Seriously...someone tell mushy taking over Indian Kashmir isn`t as easy as taking over the paki PM`s palace...

India rejects Pakistan`s J&K demilitarisation plan

``As long as the security situation in Jammu and Kashmir and in other parts of the country is adversely affected by the
phenomenon of cross-border terrorism and violence perpetrated by Pakistan-based terrorist groups, the government of India will fulfil its responsibility to safeguard lives and security of its citizens,`` Sarna said.

He also rejected Musharraf`s proposal on self-governance in Jammu and Kashmir, saying the state already enjoyed autonomy.

The point of this article is not, if India is secular enough, or if India treats muslims and other minorities well. The article is trying to make a case for Indians to trust Musharraf and Pakistan. IMO the article does not make a convincing case at all. Musharraf is someone who betrayed his own country by usurping powers and suspending the constitution (no matter how pathetic, it is still the constitution of Pakistan and should be accorded highest respect by all Pakistanis).

Jo apne desh ka nahi ho saka woh kisi aur ka kya hoga?

Re # 3

``Because these two will win India a lot more friends... it will win India a friend like me... and there are many like me. ``

It is not a one way street. What are Pakistanis willing to do to win a lot more friends
in India?

Pakistan can gain some trust by arresting and deporting Daud Ibrahim for starters. Then we can talk about Azhar Mahmood.

re: faisaluno # 35

Glad to know that some one else also knows, what is the reality of the problems in Baluchistan. :)

re: Mantolives

Yes, Bugti does not equal Baluchistan. Incidently, the grandson of Bugti has a Ferrari, which cost the tax payer $ 600,000 and he drives it on a private track, made only for him, and which is one of few paved surfaces in the area controlled by Bugti. Every winter, Bugti starts to ask more money for gas royalties and when he runs out of money, and wants more for personal reasons, he claims oppression. He is nothing more than a small time black mailer and a bully to the boot.

The government of Pakistan has given untold billions to the trio of sardars in Baluchistan; Bugti, Mengal and Marri and yet, none of them spent a penny on the development of their regions. One gentleman told me that he was sent to Baluchistan after the problems of the 1970s, with the instructions to bring development to region and his task was to bring piped water to an area controlled by Bugti. When he asked, based on population needs, of how many pipe lines were needed in the area; he was told that only one was needed!

When he persisted and agrued that one pipe line was not enough for the region, he was duly informed that one pipe was needed to bring water to Bugti` residence only and there was no need to provide water to the people. When he complained, Bugti had him transfered out of Dera Bugti.

All of these three robber-barons have at one point or another ruled Baluchistan as governors and chief ministers and they could have done much for the province in the shape of development, but did nothing. This trio honestly thinks that the gas and the natural resources of Baluchistan are their property and personally belongs to them and not to the province and its people.

Bugti has satellite phones, which he uses to cry to to the media and yet, the people who live on his land are so poor that they cannot even afford to pay the dowry for a wife. Brothers in a family pool their money and then marry a woman; first the eldest brother marries the woman and after some time, usually after the birth of a child, divorces her and the next oldest brother then marries her and hence, the pattern repeats itself and the poor woman is handed down brother to brother. People who live in Bugti`s Dera are not allowed to have homes made of mud, because that is a solid structure and live in hatched dwellings. They have no gas to cook - they use wood to cook their meals; they have no electricity, because power only goes to the residence of Bugti and he pays no utility bills.

The trio of sardars are upset, because the recent spate of development in Baluchistan has the potential to weaken their feudal hold over the people. They are against education, development, family planning, health care, sanitition, women`s rights and any thing associated with progress. Gwadar has opened up a world to cloistered world of the Baluch and s/he is is being exposed to the world around them and the graph of expectation is increasing and the sardars are falling behind the curve and thus, are prone to violence to maintain their fleeting powers.

These people are truly the best examples of what Rumsfeld calls as the ``dead-enders``.

Baluchistan has 28 districts and the present trouble is only limited to two districts; Dera Bugti and Kohlu both controlled by Nawab Akbar Bugti. This is not an insurgency - this is the death spasm of a decayed and dying state of mind.

Baluchistan National Army is funded and tacitily supported by Iran, which sees Gwadar as a threat to its own port in the region, which it wants to access the CARs. Iran has a keen interest in fermenting problems in Baluchistan, because once Gwadar becomes operational, it will open up trade to CARs and more importantly, to western China. The distance from Gwadar to western China is less than the distance from Shanghai to western China! Furthermore, Iran is under a Congressional sanction that disbars trade with Iran and any nation trading with Iran; hence, EU and other nations wanting to access CARs will go through Gwadar, because that way, they will not run afoul of the domestic American laws that automatically impose sanctions on any nation or business trading with Iran.

Bugti favors Iranian involvment, because that stirs up the problems and slows down the pace of development in the region.

Bugti also controls the Jamboori Watan Party, which is just a political facade to Bugti`s self interests and this party represents Bugti and not the rights of the people of Baluchistan as it claims and most of the gullible Pakistanis believe.

The present problems in Baluchistan is the result of these three people not willing to accept that the days of yoke and lash, by which they have ruled are about end.

Ciao

P.S.: Sorry for the longish post...

Shishapa...

Absolutely nothing except work towards a democracy which is good for all countries of the region. Ofcourse if you were aware about the theories- democracies don`t go to war with democracies and a military firmly under the lock and key of the 1973 constitution would not be planning cross border funnelling of weapons...

Because these two will win India a lot more friends... it will win India a friend like me... and there are many like me.

What will India gain from having friends like Manto? The best they can do to harm India right now is abuse India and Indians on anonymous internet forums. Big fucking deal. I am not sure how they can help India or Indians even if India wins their friendship.