AMU at the Crossroads

Re : Kuhlaree # 57 & Jang#58
The issue is that the Arjun Singh wants to play sectarian politics. It does not matter if it’s a Aligarh Muslim University or some other University.

A similar issue that should be discussed is the 15% reservation in private colleges. We have very few private schools, and this will hurt them financially and will put some of them out of business. It will force Indian students to flock foreign universities. The real motivation of this law is to have govt. influence in private colleges.

Regards,

Faruk

``I already feel so proud of our PM`s eloquence, his soft spokenness, his depth of world knowledge, his vocabulary, his choice of words. He came across as a genuine world leader....... only his eyes were roaming around a little too much. He was not seeing straight.....next time his eye contact avoidance will be reduced (with the use of the horse`s blinders?). ....One more reason for us to be proud of Pakistan is our Prime Minister`` (Behram)

agree 100% -- now who wouldn`t be proud of a Prime Minister....whose eyes are roaming around too much...who was not seeing striaght.....who needs his eye contat avoidance reduced by a pair of horse`s Blinders -- indeed the fundamental requirements of a `genuine world leader`..........:)

indikad:

My reference to Jamia Milia was in response to Urstruly`s insinuation [``THE REASON PAKISTAN WAS INEVITABLE] that Pakistan was needed to protect Muslim institutions in India. As for minority status, AMU did not have a minority status at the time of the partition but was given that status by Indira Gandhi.

OU`s use of the sanskrit verse on its insignia is really interesting.

RE: #9 by Indian007
``Visit the AMU campus during an India-Pakistan match and observe which side the students are cheering for``

``Propaganda is that branch of the art of lying which consists in nearly deceiving your friends without quite deceiving your enemies.`` Well I have been to the AMU. Never noticed this ``disgrace`` being acted out. Have`nt we had enough of this `India-Pakistan-cricket-match-India lose-Indian Muslim- celebrate` nonsense. We dont need demented cases like u in India anyways.

#28 by dost-mittar
``There was only one AMU at the time of the Partition. Now there are at least two others - Jamia Milia University in Delhi and Darul Huda Islamic Academy in Kerala``

Isn`t fair to add Jamia here. JMI is a Central University and not a Muslim minority institution like AMU. In fact JMI came up in protest against the support given by AMU intellectuals to the British in the pre-partition period. JMI today is a centre for excellence for subjects like communication and history. The JMI tarana sure is all about its land of birth.

#50 by harimau
Osmania University, again, isnt a Muslim minority institution. So what if it started off with Urdu as its medium. It was the most popular language with the old timers (esp those from Punjab) still using as a medium to communicate with their peers. BTW OU has ``Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya`` (from Darkness unto Illumination) on its Insignia. And its VC tells us that it was formed in 1918 and not 1908.

#51 and #56 by bolta_aaina
Buddy this is common of most Indians from the strata that the carpenter comes from, irrespective of religion. It is a fight out there to earn two sqaure meals a day. As far as testing the GK goes, ask most educated Indians if they can name the 7 north-eastern states (and I am not asking them about their capitals at all). Why harass a simple carpenter?

``I feel it is extremely difficult to make Muslims, I mean general Muslims, believe that being somewhat modern can be good for them``
Friend I think Indians of all faiths need to realise an important fact, Indian Muslims are NOT a monolithc block. ``General Muslims``?? WHO on earth is this general Muslim?? Please don`t make blanket statements.

#30 by ahmedmadani
Did you read the sports column on 17th January? Dude cricket is just an interesting game. Let it remain so.

Dear Pakistani Friends:

I just saw Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz`s interview with Charlie Rose. This was a 45 minute interview, and frankly I am awed by this PM.

I already feel so proud of our PM`s eloquence, his soft spokenness, his depth of world knowledge, his vocabulary, his choice of words. He came across as a genuine world leader.

Only, one negative about his TV mannerism, was that his eyes were roaming around a little too much. He was not seeing straight at the interviewer. Shaukat Aziz has lived in the US for along time, he should have known better. May be his promoters will catch, what I have caught, and next time this eye contact avoidance will be reduced.

All in all for those Pakistanis who read this, I have good news for you....One more reason for us to be proud of Pakistan is our Prime Minister.

And, now here is my prediction: he may be chosen to be the next President of Pakistan, i.e. if Musharaff wants to remain the Chief of Army Staff.

Any guesses?

Rubbish from the majority always is to have a merit based system.

Minorities must always be protected and must be given special rights and privileges.

Look at in Pakistan. Muslim majorities (primarily by Jamaat-e-Islami) are screaming the loudest for meritocratic educational system. Whereas almost all higher education system in Karachi was started by Hindus and Parsis and Christians, but the rogueness in the muslim majorities gradually took it over.

Another look at the US educational system. Minorities do have special bonus points in most higher educational institutions. Only the supreme white establishment in the US (read the Southern Baptist) are advocating meritocracy under the guise of equal playing field for all. Yet, when the Chinese took over almost the whole of Harvard, they wanted some white students to be enrolled.

If minorities have established their own higher educational institutions, the majorities do not have a right to take it over. EVER.

This is the essence of democracy. This is the essence of human rights.

author says: ````The judgment has sent shock waves in the Indian Muslim community. It coincides with the cold waves sweeping the country.````

That is BS. It may have caused some angst to a minority segment of Muslims from a particular part of a region in India, known more their wish to prolong the feudal background than anything else.

It doesn`t matter to anybody else, Muslims or otherwise, Indians all.

#57 we are talking about it because its aligarh MUSLIM uni.

It’s really sad that people have to talk about one pretty unknown school in a country of over a Billion. I mean who gives a stuff?

#52 RANJIT

I feel it is extremely difficult to make Muslims, I mean general Muslims, believe that being somewhat modern can be good for them and for the future of their children. This feeling can only be imbibed on them by Muslim Upper Class.

Typically, Muslim Upper Class is divided into two segments--one, those who are Modern and westernised and the second, who are governing their religous institutions i.e. Muslim Clergy. A common Muslim is more near to the clergy than he is to the Modern Muslim.

Now,clergy will be last one to preach modernism because, otherwise it will be digging its own grave. If you force something on common muslims, the clergy will oppose it tooth and nail and no democratic setup would like to get involved in the tussle.

So overall, its a long tunnel with no end at sight at present. It will be only when ,when the leading Muslim Nations particularly Arabia, Iran and Turkey undergo massive reforms.

Zafar-ji,

I really dont know much about this AMU stuff to be able to comment.

But I do have some questions:

(1) Do you know of any muslim organizations providing tuition/training to poor kids
who are completing high school?

(2) Any organizations providing tuition/training for kids to take the JEE or other national
exams?

(3) Any organizations working with young children focussed on science/math/english?

If so, please post their URLs or address here.

- prateek

#41 by ranjit on January 14, 2006 10:31pm PT

Are there any hindus who actually want to attend AMU? For what? Can they get a job afterwards?

---

Rnajit sb.,

Moi.....and a number of my friends from Aligarh who passed out from AMU....some of them are in the US, a couple in Dubai.....they were mainly in Medical or engineering. I think they are all gainfully employed ;)

Regards,

harimou#50

Of course! How could I forget Osmania? Thanks for the correction [but I do not think that it had Muslim or Islamia in its name].

Re:bolta_aina#51

For some reason, muslims all over the world are simply incapable of social reform. We have seen the massive reform in hindu society which happened in the past two centuries from Raja Ram Mohan Roy onwards. This has laid the foundation for hindus to aggressively pursue modernity and enjoy success. Where is such a reform movement among muslims? Where is the push to go for higher education, getting rid of regressive practices like polygamy, triple talaq etc? Instead muslims seem to enjoy moving backwards in time towards the 7th century.

In such circumstances, we cannot sit by and wait for muslims to catch up with the mainstream on their own. It will never happen that way and the consequences will be scary. If France and England are suffering from problems with their muslim population, can you imagine what will happen when India`s economy truly takes off and the hindu/musim dispartities become exponentially huge? Thats why I am in favor of aggressive government action in the education sector to forcibly drag in the muslim community into the 21st century.

#48 RANJIT


A minority community can retreat into a ghetto mindset when it feels that it is not a part of the national mainstream.

Some days back, I engaged a carpenter for reparing of some wood-work in my house. He was a muslim and worked for three-four days. He was a hard-working fellow and never used to create fuss. He used to bring his 8-10 year old son for assistance.

One day I decided to talk to him to what he feels like. I invited him and his son for tea and snacks and just started talking. He told me that he earns Rs.200/- per day and is working for all 30 days in the month. He had six children and ``sab ka guzara ho jata hai jaisey-taisey``

I tested his GK and his knowledge about geography was confined to Arabia, Iran, Iraq only. About Britishers, he knew that they came from Bartania and ruled Hindustan. Where was Britain, he did not know. About India, he had the opinion that Yeh hamara mulk nahi hai. This land belongs to Hindus and he doesnt know how, when and why they have come here? Regarding Pakistan, he was not very enthusiastic only that the muslims there are in majority unlike here,-- musalmaan wehan zyada tadad main hain. So he may be more secure there otherwise it wouldnt make any difference. He did not see a better future for his children only that they will also have to slog him to earn two-flat meals. His children getting good education was out of question. He had better opinion about about Padhey Likhey Hindus than Padhey Likhey Muslims in India. Overall, its was a picture of gloom with no hope for the future.

Now if you look at this man, he first suffers from Isolation from the country and also there is a sense of hopelessness for the future. But he has confidence in Pahdey Likhey Hindus which ,in other words, would mean secular character of the country.

You are correct that the minority community can retreat into ghetto mindset if it feels that it is not a part a not part on national mainstream. If the above person whom I talked is any representative sample, the minority community in India actually feels so.

Ref dost-mittar #28

[Urstruly:
There was only one AMU at the time of the Partition. Now there are at least two others - Jamia Milia University in Delhi and Darul Huda Islamic Academy in Kerala. ]

You know, you Punjabis can`t see south of the Vindhysas for some reason.

Osmania University was established in Hyderabad (Deccan) in 1908 with instruction in Urdu.