Where are the Questioning Minds?

#239 by Mantolives

[My diagnosis is that you suffer from what I often describe Post Gulf-war I Saddam Syndrome... which resurfaced as the Iraqi-information-minister syndrome of claiming victory when there is none. Anyway... that is between you and your shrink.]

In addition to being a lawyer, writer, economist, journalist, you are now a shrink too? Is it any wonder you`re one helluva confused man?

[Well in that case I am glad that you have finally seen the truth about Gandhi who was a misogynist, Hindu fundamentalist freak.]

Aww, how you`d love it if I just agreed with you on the above. But dear Yasser, Gandhi was notches above anything that Jinnah could be. Gandhi`s thoughts and actions were minutely scrutinized by millions if not billions around the world, and the verdict is overwhelming: Gandhi is one of the greatest icons of the 20th century, while Jinnah is a nobody.

[Now there is the simple matter of reciprocation vis a vis Jinnah ... which is just not possible.]

I know honesty is not your forte, just like Jinnah, nor am I expecting reciprocation. I know I have created enough doubts in your heart and that is enough for me. Someday you`ll be brave enough to admit that your hero had feet of clay, but even if you don`t, I know you wouldn`t be so cocksure about his infalliablity. Increasingly, these days I see you wriggling your way out of Jinnah-Gandhi debates and that`s a sure sign of the discomfort you`re feeling about having to defend him.

[FTR- I have not ``falsely`` attributed anything to you.]

Yaar Yasser, I know you are a lawyer, but this one takes the cake. Like politicians who accuse the press of misquoting them, you`re denying what you said not many posts ago. Those who have followed the discussion know how you`ve twisted words, but a lawyer is trained to do that, so no issues on that count.

[If your claim is that Jinnah merely opposed and did not stop his daughter`s wedding- then to a reasonable person that is no argument. Like I admitted in my previous post... I have no counter-argument to such specious reasoning that only you are capable of. I only feel sorry for you.]

Specious reasoning...hmm..I`m glad you know what the word `specious` means. Now if only you were a tad more honest, you`ll admit it.

re:#257 by tahmed32
Instead of calling Indians nuts, would u care to explain why there is such an uproar about the cartoons of your prophet? It has hit prime time in CNN now.
Sridhar

232 by Ramanujan on February 7, 2006 9:43pm PT
#155 by rashid_s

”[My friend if you mean the later, let us join hands in stacking all such books that retard this maxim and set them ablaze. I will start with the Hadis corpus for that makes me ashmed!! ]
Okay. Could you start with the Quran instead of the Hadith?”

#232 Ramanujan
Logic demands that I start sifting the reason for the shame with a fine sieve to remove the voluminous material first before moving on to the Gem.
If you remember the argument on my part was the interpretations, and if I may add, interpolations that have been made to the original. Hence on the basis of that I invited you to join me in setting ablaze this extraneous material, where I would start with Hadis.
It is this corpus written and collected by people, often on the behest of the rulers of the time, from about the eight century onward and has been repeated ad nauseam by the vested interest, namely the “clergy”, which institutionalised the “church” for their DAAL ROTI.
I therefore maintain that it is imperative to pull the carpet under their feet by destroying (figuratively speaking) that material which has put the Khimar (cover) on the common man’s thinking.
Now it seems you are NOT ACCEPTING the invitation TO DO YOUR PART and are unreasonably asking me to throw MY Baby with the proverbial bath water. So be it!
Rashid

re:#237 by Mantolives
The whole world is taken by storm due to this cartoon controversy. Over CNN, it is all about this and the rise of militant China.
And u say u are not interested!
O.K, keep jerking off in front of Gandhi`s picture and dream of Jinnah.
Sridhar

re:#233 by Ramanujan
Why don`t u fukc off and stop all those excrements on this board. At least i am not impressed.
Sridhar

#246 by Urstruly

Legally Blasphemy Law is perhaps applicable to Paky blasphemers only, the citizens of the citadel of Islam. Actually Sharia condones punishment of blasphemy by lynching which is often resorted to even in the case of the accused being tried under the law. A hadees which is often quoted, not very correctly, perhaps, as the basis of the Blasphemy Law is a given hereunder:-


``Sunnan Abu-Dawud
Book 38, Number 4348:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother (A slave woman who bears children without regular marriage) who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.``

It is a universal law of Islam and can be applied any where perhaps. Invoking any secular law for the purpose would be deemed unislamic.

Mantolives:
learn to ignore me - not pity me. pity is like a notch up.

Best.

fuzair & tahmad

Personally, I do not want Muslims in West to pursue a goal to change the free speach laws here and that is the consensed position of those at the helm of the affairs. It is agreed that Jewish model is not suitable for Muslims. Since jewish people have committed a grave crime agaisnt people of Palestine with the help of Europeans and Americans, they want to and they have to stifle all debate under cover of anti-semitism; and holocaust is an excuse. On the other hand Muslims have commited nothing wrong and therefore we have nothing to hide. But at the same time in order to promote our religion in the West we have to direct all questioning and debate within the boundries of civility and mutual respect. That is the reason at this time we must nip the evil in the bud.

Lets not forget that the greatest crime in the history of mankind, that is holocaust, started by the caricatures of Jews and their ways. Lets also not forget that the latest genocide in Europe, and that was religion based genocide of Muslims, happened only ten years ago. Which means that despite two world wars, cold war, and holocaust the vicious animal mindset of Europeans is still raging albiet being apparently nascent at the time. Hence, we have to be on our heels.

One more issue is that what would be the limit for the bigotry and intolerance of Europeans. Today it is just cartoons, who can tell how low they would go if this is allowed to happen. You flip channels here on TV and what you find on every other channel is someone humping someone; even in the ads for chewing gum for crying out loud. Husband wife, brother sister, father daughetr are force fed this garbage day and night by atheists who call themselves liberals. Therefore, we as Muslims are drawing a line with our protest that this debauchery stops here.

I and overwhelming majority of Muslims do not condone violent outbusrts like embassy burnings. These are counter productive. Although this reaction can be explained because of the unrelenting military and cultural offence of West on our way of life in Muslim lands. At most half of middle east is under a brutal Western military occupation and rest is undersiege with threats of nuclear attacks. So what do you expect.

Muslim lands are also occupied by a class and rulers that are cutodian of Western interests. They are brutal, torturous and lawless. They have full backing of the West. In this situation people are left to fend for themselves. In the recent embargo of Danish products, it has only become clear that no one can stand the power of the people. If people want they can bring the beast of Western aggression to its knees. This is the way of the non-violenet passive resistance which West always wanted. Now that they`ve got their wish, we must thank Danish for doing us a favor.

Re: # 254

tahmed:

this is what you write:

``Netizen: Others are not reading the Quran. They are listening to the Dr. Israr Ahmeds of the world. But since you dont consider yourself to be a muslim anyway, I am not going to get into a discussion on the Quran and instead will say to you and to these ``muslims``: to you be your way and to me be my way. (this is what the Quran advises one should say, rather than getting into arguments and fights on religious matters).``

as i understand,

only you are reading quran, isn`t? the rest are listening to the likes of israr.

so their understanding of islam is a violent, bigoted, intolerant one, whereas yours is not (which you don`t elaborate on it).

now we are on the same page, isn`t?

Mr Ahmed, If you ever read the Mahabharata, pay particular attention to the character of Dhritarashtra.

hasanmahmood #255 Welcome to chowk. If you had been here as long as I have been, you would not be wasting time trying to reason with these Indians who come to chowk. There are a handful of reasonable ones among them (like Krishna below), but the vast majority are complete nuts.

What kind of an idiotic comment is this. What are you - a 3 year old kid. First of all Muslims don`t pay to kill innocent people. Hindu Military is doing a very good job in OCCUPIED Kashmir. And secondly why would muslims want to kill Hindus. Muslims ruled them for a long time, Muslims think and know for a fact that they are better, and frankly dont even care about Hindus one way or the other. You guys can hide in this one corner which you so fondly call ``Maa- Baharat`` or whatever and keep qouting Gandhi ji (the joker) but the fact of the matter is you will never be as important as Muslims. So you dont you try to hold onto Christians and Jews coattails so they can help you out - Oh wait, you are already doing that.

Re: # 248
Whaqt kind of an idiotic comment is this. What are you - a 3 year old kid. First of all Muslims don`t pay to kill innocent people. Hindu Military is doing a very good job. And secondly why would muslims want to kill Hindus. Muslims ruled them for a long time, Muslims think and know for a fact that they are better, and frankly dont even care about Hindus one way or the other. You guys can hide in this one corner whcich you so fondly call ``Maa- Baharat`` or whatever and keep wouting Gandhi ji but the fact of the matter is you will never be as important as Muslims. So you dont you try to hold onto Christians and Jews so they can help you out - Oh wait, you are already doing that.

Netizen: You can keep ignoring what I wrote in #212, and I will keep referring you to it. (yawn).

Urstruly: Please explain to Fuzair why you speak Gibberese and not english - after all, the english language is riddled with words of the Evil Danish origin. When the Great Muslim Hero Alfred the Great of Englandistan beat the Dane Guthrum (also known as the Evil Cartoonist) at the Battle of Ethandun in the late 9th century AD, he did his best to declare all Danish words non-muslim. Unfortunately, despite Khalifa Alfred`s great efforts, the english language remains riddled with the evil Danish words. So, like a Good Muslim of course you must speak Gibberese. (See: Tahmed understands, even if Fuzair doesnt).

ha! ha!

Urstruly,

Get a grip on yourself. While the published cartoons were in mild bad taste, given Muslim sensibilities and refusal to adapt to other rules than their own 7th century ones, the ones that were truly disgusting were never actually published by anyone. The Danish Imams, the insane beardos that they are, included them in their portfolio because they knew that no one other than nutjobs like yourself would get seriously worked up about them.

So, why did the Danish Imams, lovers of the Prophet that they are, include such obscene depictions of the Prophet? Do they secretly think of him this way? OR should they be taken out and shot for incitement to riot and murder?

I await your gibbering.