Where are the Questioning Minds?

Re: # 191

The big bad guy is marked as being devil and he is applauding the cartoonist saying ``I am proud of you my son``. The protestors are Pakistani journalists in Islamabad.

Re: # 188
Was Jinnah an Ahmadi? May be there is a Hamdani-Jinnah connection?

#193 urstruly: great. arjun thakeray needed this translation so he could post this on some western websites to lend credibility to his demonization of muslims (by demonstrating ``inside knowledge`` of what is written in urdu). the kind of stuff he writes every day on chowk equating islam with terrorism and the constant attempts of indians (government and individuals on chowk alike) to put their own aggressive anti-pakistan agenda onto the western bandwagon.

``muslims`` like you are your own worst enemies.

#195 by tahmed32(PBUYSRR) on February 7, 2006 7:53am PT


arjun thakeray needed this translation so he could post this on some western websites to lend credibility to his demonization of muslims


right..because you need cartoons in urdu to ``demonize muslims``..

all the posters saying ``Behead those who insult Islam`` and ``fantastic 4 are on their way``, in ENGLISH and carried by muslims, don`t demonize Islam

not that muslims need any help from indians - no one can truly demonize muslims other than muslims themselves - who cry wolf at every opportunity, and then when the real wolf arrives (as in indian occupation of kashmir, as in the form of milosovic in the balkans, or more subtle forms like tightening of immigration quotas, discrimination in the job market) no one takes it seriously. as i said, ``muslim`` are their own worst enemies. (i put this in quotes since these muslims violate the fundamentals of the Quran every time they cry wolf without reason, every time they give this arrogant talk of muslims being some kind of chosen people, every time they ascribe divinity to a human being).

arjun: you are right here. i cannot disagree when you say that muslims write the same garbage in english since that is a bitter fact (at least for me as a muslim). but that does not change anything of what i wrote.

but saying you are right here does not mean i consider you to be anything more than those who enjoy spreading hatred among people.

Re: # 198
tahmed32-arjun-mantolives-urstruly quadrangle: I believe this conversation is somewhat beyond the purview of this article. At any rate Azra has forgotten us all anyway.
I know Arjun is feisty and ready with tit-for-tat, but can we try to develop a boring platform to try to understand the India-Pakistan instead of hurling insults at each other and maligning our respective countries. ``our`` is intended.
Really, people of our nations are aching for a systematic and peaceful growth of understanding so that the organized prejudices - promoted through and by our radical religious institutions - can be neutralized. The destiny of South Asia is individual and will arise only through a working rapprochement between India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri lanka. Can we take a tiny step towards it?

Re: # 195

tahmed:

``the kind of stuff he writes every day on chowk equating islam with terrorism ``

arjun doesn`t need to harp on it. the world has eyes and ears. read this from guardian:

........For centuries, English law has been crammed full of legal powers to arrest people who threaten violence or murder in public, or who go around terrifying ordinary people. On Friday, dozens of prima facie examples of such offences were committed during protests against Danish cartoons which offended Muslims by depicting the prophet Muhammad. One man was dressed in the garb of a suicide bomber, arguably an overt attempt to terrify of the kind that has been illegal in this country since at least the Statute of Northampton in the time of King Edward III, in the 14th century. Others carried placards demanding ``Massacre those who insult Islam``, ``Butcher those who mock Islam``, ``Europe you`ll come crawling when Mujahideen come roaring``, ``Britain you will pay: 7/7 on its way``, several of which appear to breach the law dating from Victorian times that outlaws soliciting to murder. A toddler on the march was dressed in a hat that said: ``I love al-Qaida.`` Many adults on political marches over the years have been convicted of breaches of the peace for much less than that......


mohd with a bomb as a turban represented the intolerance of muslims. and how did muslims react to the satire? by burning embassies/flag, threatening to kill/behead/kidnap. some even died protesting. granted that the image of mohd is blasphemous but why doesn`t the ``moderate`` muslims start to debate the meassage behind the satire.

200/
From Guradian Pages = [....``Europe you`ll come crawling when Mujahideen come roaring``, ``Britain you will pay: 7/7 on its way``, ....A toddler on the march was dressed in a hat that said: ``I love al-Qaida.`` ...]

Muslim to european: ``Ab tera kya hog re Kaliya?``...

European to Muslim: ``Saab - humne aap ko immigration diya, welfare diya, citizenship diya.....``

Muslim to european: ``Ab tera blood de.... hum ko tera blood chahiye.... Ha ha ha ( evil laugh wala icon ).....``

A very nice article, but here are some points to ponder on. First of all who ever said that you cannot question anything in islam. Of course you can. You can question it, but instead of going to Israr Ahmad or qouting sufis you should have the intelligence to read Quran. Are you going to tell me that they know more about Islam then you do? Well if you are telling me that then it is your fault to not read Quran. Don`t blame these religious zealots who have different interpretation of Islam. These maulanas are a dime a dozen and are for the weak of mind. You truly sound like an intelligent person so start reading Quran and find out for yourself what is written in there. Women have a lot of rights in our religion and just because our society is structured wrongly does not mean that we cannot correct the wrongs.

Re: # 195

I think you should keep your mouth shut. I know arjun very well. He is one of those people who think that cartoons are just cartoons and they do not cenvey messages of hate, bigotry, insult, or derogatory gestures. He along with other Hindu cohorts have been trying to tell us this thru the last 500 posts they have written. It shows their conviction to their principles; therefore I am pretty confident that they will not do any such thing as you are suggesting.

Netizen #200 What you quote from the guardian, i already acknowledged in #198 below: ``i cannot disagree when you say that muslims write the same garbage in english since that is a bitter fact (at least for me as a muslim). ``

Does that mean that as a muslim I should submit to the directives of some other man, as the author of this article has done and as too many other muslims have done? Rather than to have faith in my own ability to see and to think, and to thus be comfortable after reading the Quran carefully that islam has a great positive message of respect for all faiths and respect for the rights of the individual?? I dont think so!!

Does this mean that after seeing the jehalat of the muslim world that cries wolf at every opportunity and when the real wolf arrives (as I mentioned below) has no clue on what to do, I should throw up my hands and say that their jehalat (and not the Quran), as ably illustrated by urstruly on chowk, is the message of Islam?? I dont think so. And does this mean that arjun was right all along and islam is terrorism? I dont think so!!

urstruly: yup. i should shut my mouth. that is the only response you can give to what i wrote.

urstruly: and what makes you so confident that arjun doesnt really mean it when he equates islam with terrorism?? its not just arjun - do you have any response to the list of real wolves that I mentioned, into whose hands fools like you of the muslim world play every day when you go around puffing your chest threatening those who mean muslims no harm while ignoring those - or even pandering to those, as you just did with arjun - who spit on muslims?

Re: # 206

I think we should be more lenient and accomodating towards Hindus; all they want from us is little recognition of self-respect and dignity. I don`t think being nice to other people and extending respect to them is akin to being weak. It is a long process and needs patience, I think ultimately they will be able to reciprocate kindness.

Inquirer #199 I agree with your goals - with millions living in misery in the subcontinent, there can be no other goal for anyone with any conscience.

However, to reach this goal, you dont encourage people like arjun as ``feisty`` and those who seek such goals as boring. What is feisty in ridiculing ``pakis`` and islam every day?? And what is boring about discussing things in a respectful manner? I think you need to do some self-reflection yourself here, dont you think?