Where are the Questioning Minds?

For general information:

Dr. Zakir Naik is an Indian, but no one in India cares much about him. That is, if they know who he is.

H.M.Seervai -- Indian Parsi. Has written one of the most definitive books on the subject, `The Partition of India`.

re: this article
(Islam, we are told by Muslim leaders, is a religion that orders full submission from its followers without allowing them the ability to ask questions while still remaining within the faith. Such is the structure upon which most modern day Muslim societies have been formed.)
Very true
(Just like any other society, religion has permeated into the social, cultural and familial traditions in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, a society dominated by religious fanatics and opportunistic leaders, authority is conferred upon some individuals and groups of the society, and it is not considered appropriate to ask questions.)
Pakistan as a nation evolved as anti-India. Add to this a substantial dose of Islam and u get an explosive mixture.
Few Pakis even on chowk can question the problems that confront their nation. They mostly toe the official line. Nobody questions why a Paki passport says Islamic Republic of Pakistan and asks for a person`s religous affiliation? Why should Pak continue to confront India when that has only resulted in its own dismemberment and slowed down its economic progress? Why must mullahs have the last word on everything that pertains to religion?
We also see pseudo-intellecutals like Manto who think Gandhi was a racist because some South Africans today are saying so and quotes some goddamn Seervai (who the fukc is Seervai anyway?) to argue his case.
Now-a-days, most muslims around the world are throwing a fit because some Danish newspaper published a cartooned caricature of Prophet Mohammad.
Now, i know Islam says there should be no idol worship. Does it also say there should be no caricature drawn? Pity the nordics did not know muslim sensitivity in the matter. I am told they regularly publish cartoons of Mary and Jesus but nobody in the christian world has thrown a fit so far.
All this makes me feel muslims are all in a mass delusion.
Just one sample from the following Url:
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=443832
Sridhar

rsridhar,

Your stupid comment about my view on Gandhi (which btw has NOTHING to do with this thread) is indicative of poor reading comprehension.

I call Gandhi what I called him based on what he himself wrote in his collected works. I have given exact citations and you may check them... I don`t wish to start a Gandhi-bashing thread here...

Late H M Seervai, an Indian Lawyer and jurist of frontrank, has said nothing about Gandhi`s racism... I quote him on what happened at partition and how it was brought about. He wrote an excellent book which is a must read.

Your claim that no Pakistani speaks on the issues outlined is wrong ...

1- I have often spoken against the idea of an ``Islamic Republic``

2- I have written against the concept of having a state religion.

3- I have often outlined the Mullah`s historic role against Pakistan as a counterweight to their efforts to be the the final voice of Pakistan...

For these stances I have won nothing but the worst kind of abuse from people like Urstruly, Atif2 and Malik99... That you missed all this is indicative of a sick mentality on part of people like you...

But ofcourse a Pakistani who doesn`t allow Indians to self righteously claim that they are better... and who gives Indians as good as he gets... is obviously not to the taste of those who think India is the land of milk and honey... Furthermore I have never claimed to be an intellectual... but you are definitely a dishonest individual with no sense of integrity whatsoever.

Farzana,


``H.M.Seervai -- Indian Parsi. Has written one of the most definitive books on the subject, `The Partition of India`.``

He is also the author of perhaps the best constitutional commentary in South Asia ... which is considered to be a bible for all those studying Indian constitution in particular and constitutions in general...

If you recall.. I wrote an article on the great man.

re: Militancy in Kashmir: where is the questioning islamic mind?
The world perceives militancy in Kashmir as terrorism while Pakis thinkg it is a case of Kashmiri nationalism!
http://www.hindu.com/2006/02/04/stories/2006020420131400.htm
( ``Pakistan militants a threat to stability``

Washington: Pakistan-based militant groups that are active in Kashmir pose a persistent threat to regional stability and U.S. interests in South Asia and the Near East, said a U.S. top intelligence official testifying before the Senate Intelligence Committee here.

National Intelligence Director John Negroponte on Thursday told U.S. lawmakers that India would be a ``reliable ally`` in the fight against global terrorism, in part because it had been a frequent target of Islamic terrorists, mainly in Kashmir.

The intelligence chief, while examining the activities of various jihadi groups, said, ``some of the Pakistan-based militants also posed a potential threat to our interests worldwide.`` Mr. Negroponte said a network of Islamic extremists in Lodi (California), for example, maintained connections with Pakistani militant groups, recruited U.S. citizens (of Pakistan origin) for training at radical Karachi madrassas and according to FBI information, allegedly raised funds for international jihadi groups. The leader of the network and some others were deported to Pakistan recently.

On Pakistan, Mr. Negroponte said even though it remained a frontline State in the war on terror, Islamabad also remained ``a major source of extremism`` that posed a threat to Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf, the United States, India and Afghanistan. He also regretted that despite promises Gen. Musharraf had ``not done enough`` to promote democracy in Pakistan where many of ``our most important interests intersect.``

Noting that New Delhi sought to play a key role in fostering democracy in the region, especially in Nepal and Bangladesh, Mr. Negroponte said that India would continue to be a reliable ally against global terrorism because it had been a frequent target for Islamic terrorists, mainly in Kashmir. He said rapid economic growth and increasing technical competence were securing India`s leading role in South Asia. — UNI)
Sridhar

re:#33 by FarzanaVersey
(H.M.Seervai -- Indian Parsi. Has written one of the most definitive books on the subject, `The Partition of India`.)
Well,
Here is the dude:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_M_Seervai
(HM Seervai: Indian Supreme Court Lawyer and constitutional scholar of great renown. Advocate General Maharashtra and a prolific author. He was Advocate General of Maharashtra from 1957 to 1974 when he resigned on account of denigration of the High Office by the then Minister for Law & Judiciary.

The President of India conferred on Seervai the Padma Vibhushan in 1972 primarily for his Magnum Opus - Consitutional Law of India. Seervai was also selected to be a member of the British Academy in 1981. In 1994, the International Bar Association awarded Seervai the ``Living Legend of Law`` award for recognition of his services to the profession of law.

Wrote ``Partition of India: Legend and Reality`` in 1990 which challenged the existing view of history in India, which blamed partition on the Muslim League. He argued instead that it was the latent bias on the part of Indian National leadership which resulted in partition.)
So, the dude was actually a constitutional expert. I had never heard of him and i suspect most Indians have not. But most of us have heard of Nani Palkhiwala.
Seervai wrote a book that is making many Pakis and some IMs (like Farzana bibi) very happy because it actually shows muslim league in good light. No wonder Manto goes into ecstasy whenever he mentions Seervai`s name.
BTW, try google with the heading: partition of India, Books
See how many Seervai`s u get. I got zilch, nada, zero.
So much for his popularity. If the book is a definitive one on parition, it should find a place among 200 other books when u google, dont u think?
Sridhar

re:#35 by Mantolives
Wokay, wokay (in my south indian accent!)
I get it.
Gandhi wrote stuff that throws him in poor light and u think because of that he is a racist!
And u actually wrote an article on this in the Daily Times!
Now, do u think i or any Indian will ever take u seriously after this?
This is the question u should have asked before accusing Gandhi of being a racist:
How does the world perceive Gandhi?
Is it possible that may be, just may be, i am biased here; that Gandhi was not a racist at all but he had many weaknesses that any mortal can possess?
I have already said in my last post that many Indians have not truly heard of Seervai but most have heard of Nani Palkhiwala who too was a constitutional expert (both were Parsees!)
Sridhar

Dear rsridhar...

I don`t care if a dishonest crook like you takes me seriously or not. After all you are so ignorant as to deride a man like Seervai - so what is the point? This thread is not about Gandhi... but if a person says that an entire race of people (African) are of inferior racial stock then it is taken to be racism.

From your own quote:

HM Seervai: Indian Supreme Court Lawyer and constitutional scholar of great renown. Advocate General Maharashtra and a prolific author. He was Advocate General of Maharashtra from 1957 to 1974 when he resigned on account of denigration of the High Office by the then Minister for Law & Judiciary.

The President of India conferred on Seervai the Padma Vibhushan in 1972 primarily for his Magnum Opus - Consitutional Law of India. Seervai was also selected to be a member of the British Academy in 1981. In 1994, the International Bar Association awarded Seervai the ``Living Legend of Law`` award for recognition of his services to the profession of law.


Yup this person is really very unimportant...

Farzana, as far as religious leaders go, Naik is an international star. He is fairly well-known in some places, where he takes part in discussions on TV, TV channels telecast his programs and radio stations broadcast his speeches. Naik heads the so-called Islamic Research Foundation (irf.net) and has other websites dedicated to promoting his stellar wisdom.

To enhance one`s chances in afterlife one can download and listen to Naik`s speeches from all over the Internet, including

http://is.aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.aspx?TitleID=2054&TitleName=Zakir_Naik

And to remind everyone, the Naik IS an Indian, born, bred, and probably educated in India, living with and around Hindus. People shouldn`t go around blaming Pakistan for everything.

re: Muslim protests over cartoons!
For Pete`s sake, why lose your sleep over some goddamn cartoons?
An Indian muslim genius by name M.F.Hussain regularly draws sketches of Indian Gods and Goddesses, often nude pictures of the latter. These pictures are sold at high prices at auctions and often make up a good coffee book addition.
Well, some VHP nutcases did throw a fit. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/128728.stm)
Nothing much happened and Mr Hussain carries on with his work of painting pictures as he has always done.
caricatures of Mary, Jesus have often appeared in the western world. Some were criticised, but mostly tolerated.
Why is it then that the muslim world is in turmoil when someone in the Nordic country paints a caricature of Prophet Md (it is not even his nude picture, mind you!)
http://opinionated.blogsome.com/2006/02/04/british-muslims-protest-over-cartoons/
Sridhar

And now the dishonest crook is off on another tangent.

What rama ... cat got your tongue eh?

A man/code coolie your age should be a little more mature...

I saw Zakir Naik on TV in Lahore last year (not on a Pakistani channel; something Indian or Malaysian, I think) and he was incredibly funny because he was such an obvious idiot and only one step removed from the Fazlur Rehman ilk. Thank God he is not a Pakistani, although I do admit he could cite the Bible and Hindu scriptures chapter and verse.

There is a real problem with Muslims who think that the Koran is God`s dictation instead of merely divinely inspired like the Bible. Admit the Prophet was fallible and we can move into the 19th century!

Fuzair..

Very poignant observation about the 19th century...

Questioning ANYTHING is forbidden in Islam. You have to submit.

Therefore why write useless articles like this?

This is Ajeya.

As most of you have probably noticed, ALL my posts are being filtered.

There cannot be ANY basis for filtering ALL my posts, since irrelevent and offensive posts are abundant on this website - starting with Behram. The other point, of course, is that ALL my posts are in RESPONSE to other posts.


This is a good illustration of why democracy will NEVER come to ANY Islamic country (Turkey, for example, is not a true democracy).

This is a low-class site with pseudo-intellectuals like Mantolives spouting endless garbage about topics like an ISlamic, Secular, and Modern Pakistan. Talk about contradictions!

The editor, of course, takes the cake - left wing radical Islamic nutcase with a zero talent in English writing skills.

Anyway, carry on your endless garbage.

And Arjun, carry on the good work!

Goodbye