Dilemma of Mixed Unions

Sattar,

I did not consider anything in your post sarcastic. You should reciprocate in kind.
Also, I do not drink any caffeinated or decaffeinated drink at the Starbucks. Thank God, I got rid of the addiction 15 months ago. Now, I am into all kinds of exotic teas. I recommend looking into products by ``Honest Tea.`` They will keep you honest whenever you are making any facetious remark :) Oh, I forgot you a kanjoos aadmi. You will fast than spend $1.99 on a bottle of exotic tea.

Re:sattar2#41

[...… over time, both partners in a marriage achieve the same degree of happiness (or misery)...]

Sattarji, at the end of the day it all boils down to sex. If by some miracle your wife makes you happy in the bedroom (and vice-versa), a man is really happy in a marriage. Otherwise, people are miserable, although they may stay together for the sake of their kids and so forth.

The problem is that monogamy by its nature becomes boring after several years. Also our desi women (and desi men) deteriorate in looks very rapidly after marriage. They let go of themselves. So take any 40 year old married desi guy. Most likely he feels frustrated and trapped in his 10 year marriage and wonders about the rest of the world. :-)

Thats where my study kicks in!! :-) Men have the means at that stage in their life to setup, (ahem!!) other alternatives. Women do not have the means for that. Thats why married men are generally the happiest guys. The want to keep their bird in hand and go for the others in the bush....:-)

Re: # 51

You are so noble.

Re:zahraj#49

[...You guys are so bloody conceited!...]

Madam, no need to get angry. I am just discussing some mid-life crisis issues with sattarji. :-)

This is hardly an issue or problem in most parts of the civilised world. It is hardly an issue with a majority of Muslims, also. Other than a few misguided fundoos, from most every religion, anyways.

Since the article does, however, specify believers versus unbelievers, I presume the author wishes to make a specific point about Muslims and non-Muslims.

Well, here again, a few backward sects, especially those with allegiance to some branches of Islam which choose to mis-interpret the guidelines for their own shallow purposes, try to make an issue about it. Ostensibly quoting the Holy Quran.

To them, the best advice one can give is:- don`t forget the ayaats while trying to memorise the Book.

+++

The author also mentions ``traditional Muslim``. Would he care to elucidate, please, on what exactly a ``traditional Muslim`` is? How, for example, does a ``traditional Muslim`` from Pakistan find similarity with a ``traditional Muslim`` from, say, Burhanpur or Akyab or even Qadian?

Veeresh:
Let me start from the bottom of your post first. The simplest definition of a traditional Muslim is the one who follows or tries to follow the traditions of his Muslim culture.
Coming to the top of your post, it is conceded that ``it is hardly an issue with a majority of the Muslims`` not for the reasons you might think of. The reason is that a majority of Muslims does not seek such relationships.
The point I tried to make (which was lost on majority of the interactors) was that those contracting mixed unions should think before hand some of the crucial issues (which they think are crucial) that are likely to crop up later, and try to reach mutual understanding about them. Circumcision was considered as one of them, not hypothetically or academically, but because it had become a real issue in the married life of the couple described in the article. Considered on a wider scale, it is only one of the issues that can mar the harmony of a mixed marriage.
Mohammad Gill

Re: # 55

Raw_Dust:

I am sure the audience would love to read an article by you on the shenanigans and insecurities of the rough ones. Don`t be hesitant to take a leap :)

Zahraj:
I was responding to a specific case cited in Dr. Sohail`s comment. I `d be more than happy to share my ``deep insights`` on topics like, muslims males and their shenanigans and insecurities etc. if someone wrote an article about them here.

By the way, the point i made earlier about the reason why a muslimah would raise her kids in islam still stands. if that is mocking then so be it.

Gill Sahib,

Any comments on the study focusing on the dillemma Asian children of ``unmixed`` parentage are facing?

Saminashah:
I have four children and all of them were born in Nigeria where I worked before coming to the US. We had domsetic help there; their (children`s) nanny(ies) spoke mostly Hausa (their native tongue) and `pidgin` English. The stewards spoke `pidgin` English. The kids went to English schools. At school, they spoke English. They had Pakistani nationality. At home, my wife and I spoke Urdu and Punjabi.
When we came to the US, they were exposed to the white culture. (They were already familiar with the black culture; white culture was not new to them because some of their teachers in Nigeria were white but they had not lived into it before coming to the US). Many a time I thought and worried that they were handicapped, in a way, because they were exposed to two/three different cultures at young age, I thought they might have had some difficulty of adjustment.
Now they are all grown ups. Yesterday, I asked my daughter if she had any problem of cultural adjustment. She said, ``None that is worth-mentioning.`` She also said that the Pakistani kids in Pakistan are more Americanized than the Pakistani kids living in the US. One of her cousins said to her when she went for a short visit to Pakistan that she (my daughter) was a ``Paindoo`` even though she was living in America.
I can not generalize this example. The kids who are living in two or more cultures at the same time may be sometime confued as to where they belong. Such cultural issues need to be researched. I will not be surprised if some graduate students are writing research dissertations on them.
Mohammad Gill

Gill Sahib,

``I can not generalize this example.``

And yet many have commented on how overgeneralized many of the claims of this piece are. Your generation seems to have a hard time understanding how adeptly second and third generation South Asian Americans negotiate several cultures-in a much more complex and sophisticated way than you have language for. Why don`t you read some of the work of these writers?

Saminashah:
You quoted from my post in which I said I don`t want to generalize from my own experience, Yet you, along with others, seem to accuse me of overgeneralization. You suggested I should read ``these writers.`` You didn`t give me any names; which authors you`re suggesting? I know the younger generation is doing fine living in multiculturaism. Human beings are very adaptable; they adjust to whatever circumstances they live in. We learn from one another`s experiences and make suitable adjustments in our own lives.
Mohammad Gill

Re: # 61

Sattar,

Thank you for sharing some bits and pieces of your adventurous life. I am sure Raw Dust is making notes to get some ideas for the requested write-up. Did Mrs. Sattar get another traffic ticket today? Please advise her to take a defensive driving course.

Zahra (#44):

… and if you think I need help, you have a lot in common with my relations. I think it goes back to my bachelor days when I showed up at an eid get together with a date who was good 15 years older than me … one of us was fucking high, and for the life of me I can’t remember which one. Apparently the evening turned out to be a disaster for the hosts and aunts with young daughters … although the cousins thought it was a riot. My relatives claim to have forgiven me … but the look in their eyes to this day tells me otherwise …

… I was losing social graces faster than was acceptable to me even. Perversions … sexual, social, and otherwise … were starting to feel quite normal. Morality and sanity, I figured, are purely contextual issues. What’s next? ... I`d wonder ... showing up at a party with an overpriced hooker? And why not?? This steady decline into debauchery had to be stopped ... before any efforts could be mounted to reverse its effects. I needed to put some parameters around my lifestyle in order to maintain semblance of civility. Surely it was time to get married …

… In most circles being a bachelor till the age 30 is considered quite fashionable … after which it starts to becomes a liability of sorts. And I now understand why. Although if one makes it to 40 without getting married, he becomes envy of the town. Men smile meaningfully when greeting you at parties … and women trapped in sexless marriages want to be seated next to you at the dinner table … but that’s another story …

… but what’s this deal with you wanting to interview guys? ... what the hell for? There’s nothing that complicated or worth looking for. We remain a lost cause … even god had to kick us out … and he tried to explain himself by cooking up the serpent story while blaming the poor woman to save face … and even after several revisions, no part of this story makes any sense. So what gives ... ???

freethinker #57

`` I have four children and all of them were born in Nigeria where I worked before coming to the US. We had domsetic help there; their (children`s) nanny(ies) spoke mostly Hausa (their native tongue) and `pidgin` English. The stewards spoke `pidgin` English. The kids went to English schools. At school, they spoke English. They had Pakistani nationality. At home, my wife and I spoke Urdu and Punjabi.
When we came to the US, they were exposed to the white culture. (They were already familiar with the black culture; white culture was not new to them because some of their teachers in Nigeria were white but they had not lived into it before coming to the US). Many a time I thought and worried that they were handicapped, in a way, because they were exposed to two/three different cultures at young age, I thought they might have had some difficulty of adjustment.
Now they are all grown ups. Yesterday, I asked my daughter if she had any problem of cultural adjustment. She said, ``None that is worth-mentioning.`` She also said that the Pakistani kids in Pakistan are more Americanized than the Pakistani kids living in the US. One of her cousins said to her when she went for a short visit to Pakistan that she (my daughter) was a ``Paindoo`` even though she was living in America.
I can not generalize this example. The kids who are living in two or more cultures at the same time may be sometime confued as to where they belong. Such cultural issues need to be researched. I will not be surprised if some graduate students are writing research dissertations on them.
Mohammad Gill ``

I have meet Indians who are more culturally conservative than counterparts who have stayed in India

Dr. Gill, this is an interesting article. I think it would have been better if you had clearly separated your own opinions from the main body.

In most cases, perhaps the children would end up growing agnostics – if the marriage does not break down first – which could happen if neither party is the compromising kind – in which case perhaps they should have seen it coming.

Are there statistics available on such intermarriage rates for desis?