Why Aren’t Muslim Women Converting to Christianity?

further to #429 Quetta is not Karachi, and your mujahir carpetbaggers came stole hindu property in Karachi, not in Quetta. So the truth is that you never let out a peep on chowk about hindus who fled karachi - and these hindus have a right, by any reasonable standard, to be allowed to enter Pakistan, unlike these Biharis you keep presenting as examples of how evil the panjabis are for not letting them into Pakistan.

#426 all muhajirs who came to pakistan were not losers like the MQM thugs either. Many of them have contributed much to pakistan - and they include people like Edhi whose non-profit medical and ambulance services in Pakistan is recognized world-wide (including in a front page article on the washington post a few years ago). my own people were refugees from india in 1947, and (unlike the MQM thugs) have nothing but appreciation for the refuge and opportunities Pakistan provided to us at that time, and will never bad mouth the community we live in (unlike these MQM thugs).

Salim: So this is the best you can do in response to my challenge to cut and paste anything you wrote to back your claim that you have always spoken out on behalf of the hindus whose properties and businesses your muhajir elders rushed to Pakistan to take over in 1947!! That is, the best you can do is have your pal delhiwala vouch for you that you have in fact spoken out for restitution for sikh properties (in the panjab!!).

This proves that not only are you a liar, but a shameless liar. Like the rest of you MQM thugs.

Re: # 421 by jang on May 2, 2006 11:06am PT

{ e.g. behramji clearly feels he lost. }

Yes, and I am mad as hell. My beautiful city of Karachi was destroyed by the All Tuff goonda brigade. They showed us how to pee on the streets of Karachi, a city that used to be washed right upto the mid-1950`s. The thugs and goondas know how to steal and rob people`s cars and cell phones and dignity but do not know how to show leadership. The Governor of Sindh, a ganster of the All Tuff brigade was himself on the British Government payroll.

And yes, Jang....I am pissed at the lack of balls these press wallas have for not exposing the shaninigans of those who destroyed my city of birth.

Respectfully submitted,

And the Karachi that I remember had the cool breeze from Arabian Sea. It did not have the violence except those who used to live on Burns Road, burning tires once a while, and sending choorians to people living in Goli-Mar. Their claim to fame was always to be more violent than the other community.

And then in mid-1970`s the depressed people from East pakistan showed up, and all hell broke loose. In mid-1980`s gangsters from the All Tuff brigrade started killing anybody who was anti-hate machinery that they created....Hate this and hate that.

O! and these young ones, talk about civility in public debate. How can they know any civility, when all they knew was violence? By not getting into English medium schools, a sense of insecurity was installed in their thoughts from early childhood. Most of them have self-esteem problem. They can barely function in the knowledge based society of the enlightened west. No wonder they are unable to understand and appreciate the goodness and wellness of the enlightened world. This new world is where they can shine, and see life. Those who chose to live in darkness want all of us to get back to darkness.

Music is out and maatum is in. Songs and poetry is out and massive demonstration is in. Honesty and integrity is out and rumor mongering is in, to such an extent that it must be the Jewish conspriracy to get all those chickens killed because of the bird flu.

Karachi has been destroyed, and by none other than the thugs and goondas of the All Tuf brigade. These people have not given hope to the people of Karachi. All they have given is mud-slinging, and on a drop of a hat, their rhetoric is anti-Pakistan and anti-Jinnah. And O! but they have sacrificed so much to get the land for the muslims. People who sacrificed should not destroy what was already built. People who sacrificed would build more and not less. People who sacrificed do not take away from the society that has given them so much.

Mohajirs of early days were decent people. Only in the mid-1980`s those who claimed to be united were united to show the street power as in hate for everyone. In the US, blacks who were mistreated for over 400 years have not shown that much street power and hatred as these goondas and thugs have shown to the city of Karachi that gave them refuge.

O! and these people are the liberals and the secularists. At the drop of a hat they are with the anti-religious factions of Pakistan. At the drop of a hat they are collaborating with the oppressed nations of Pakistan. At the drop of a hat they are promoting futher bifurcation of their country. Their thoughts are the more we divide others, the more our quantity would be. Just like a mobster, they think in terroritories. Maybe they have read too much into Mario Puzzo`s Godfather.

Respectfully submitted,

i would like to toot the indian horn at this a point.
those who were displaced by the muhajirs were sindhis. they settled in many parts, in and around bombay. while the richer went to marine drive etc, poorer went to sindhi colonies in chembur and ulhas nagar. they made ulhas nagar famous as a manufacturing hub..with the brand made by USA (ulhasnagar sindhi association). sindhis offcourse also dispersed all over th e world as well..in hong kong and singapore and africa.

while there may have been some friction, there is no army in sindhi colony, no quami movement. the chief of sindhi underrworld, pappu kalani, always gets elected to maharastra assembly, many times from his jail cell. he co-exists happily with other goons from shivsena or agrisena (sons of soil poolitical parties). they have enhanced bombay with some excellent educational institutes like the Jai Hind college, KC College and a very good Pharmacy college and many schools. and offcourse they are one of the top builders, vying for primacy with muslims like the lokhandwalas for bulding software parks and upmarket residences.

muhajirs should have come to mumbai like other bhaiyyas, and prospered alongside all the other communities who prospered in a competative environment ..no guns, rangers..

Re: # 424

There is ugliness in all kinds. You will never appreciate the beauty till you see the ugly side. All the more reason, you do have to recognize and appreciate ugliness to have some sanctity for beauty. It will be very naive of you to assume otherwise. What needs to be appreciated has to be appreciated. It`s known as giving the enlightened one its due. I do not think anyone needs your blessings to do that. I detest the bhai this and bhai that way of talking. Your clannish approach can also considered weird and annoying. Did anyone tell you that?

Behram has made quite a few excellent points to put certain things in right perspective. To begin with, all Muhajirs were not direct disciples of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan so they need to get down from their high pedestal. There are all kinds of people in all ethnic groups and divisions. All Punjabies are neither angels nor enlightened. Similarly, all Muhajirs are not peaceful, cultured and capable of contributing to their surrounding in a positive manner. Just accept it and grow up!

Thanks.

“#407 by behram1
All of them were busy producing 12 to 15 babies. And most of them were transported to Korangi to become gangsters, movaalis, and daadageers. They never learned to eat food with spoon or talk in an enlightened tone. They never learned how to talk in English, and yet these badmash cultists has taken refuge in the bossom of the west.

#408 by ZahraJ
Behram,

Thanks for some enlightening posts on a controversial subject.”


Salim Bhai

When I first came to chowk, almost a week ago; I initially thought that you might be gratuitously harsh towards these people. I failed to contemplate that how come several people who are targeting one specific person can be wrong. I thought that maybe it is you who is responsible for all this mess.

But I was outrightly wrong, evil speaks out for itself. The ugliness of their mentality will always sneak out to show its demonic face. The more they will bash Muhajirs the clearer their face will be seen.

The personalities of these uncles have been accurately depicted by Schopenhauer in the following line “The closing years of life are like the end of a masquerade party when the masks are dropped”.

I support your cause and want to let you know that you are merely paying the price of speaking out the truth. Truth is bitter and the hate replies you have been entertaining is the reaction of that bitterness. May Allah(swt) help you in your cause.

Ibn-e-Jafar

Urstruly; Zeemax
Do you see some relevance here?

Tabdeeli
Transformation



hUm voh ma`asoom thhay
We, who once had babe-innocence
jin kay liyay, ilhaam, hur ikk fiqra thhaa
who once revered every word, as reveletion
hUr chamaktaa hua, chehraa thha khuda
Every glowing face haloed, as if of a god
hUr mehkta hua daman firdaus
every bosom, as if a retreat in heaven
hur nazar, gosha-i ummeed-O-khabar
every viewpoint , inspiring; know-all
hur qadam, muszdaa-i, tumheed-ijaza
every footstep, towards hope, a reward
hum nay jub aank kee tehreer ko paRRna seekhha
Once we learned to read the eyes
hur chamaktay huay chehray ki jibbalat dhoondee
we looked past the haloed faces
hur mehktay huay daman ko pakaRRna chaha
tried to tag onto the bosom-retreat
hur naey naqsh say qismat ko samajhnaa chaha
tried to tempt fate with fresh omens
jazb-i mohoom thha paevast-e guloo
nameless emotions choked the throats
shauque zanjeer thha
and the passion had made us its prisnoer
ummeed saza thhee upnee
and Hope our condemnation
chahataiN daam thheeN
Love, that snared us
aahat bhhee sada thhee upni
sound of eerie footsteps, our own
lub naa hiltay thhay
Lips not even quivered
Naa aankhoaN meiN diyay jultay thhay
Nor did the eyes lit up
baNhaiN mur-mur kee siloaN kee tarah yukh basta thheeN
arms, marble-like; cold
Lamhay sehmay huay chupchaap guzar jaatey thhay_
Moments wafted by, mute; mortified
Naqsh-e mehboob abul-haul nazar ataa thha
the beloved`s visage, as if a sphinx
Ubb toa farkhanda jafa kaar haiN hum
Now we our selves: smile--& oppress
hUm ney ik umr guzaree hai nihaaN khanoaN meiN
we now know, gave a lifetime to learn
Ubb toa pUrR laitay haiN hur sada varq kee tehreer__now we can even read blank papers
Ubb naheeN krtay vafaa kee taqseer
Now we do not lay blame on the betrayers
Ubb hUr ik shaks sey miltay haiN bada l kar shaklaiN
now we meet with our masks on
upnay quaboo maiN haiN ubb fitna-e shub kee soachaiN
Now we have reined in dirty thoughts
Ubb humeiN khauf-e halakat bhhee nahiN
now we not scared of even dying
maut aaegee toa chehraa bhhee badal laiN-gey humm
For Death too , we`ll have a new mask!

Tahmed16, come out from your hiding place and face the music, now

In the past few days you have posted a lot of things that are not true. By now your nose must be longer than the line of Biharis waiting to come home. You made a specific charge that I had never voiced anything concerning the restitution of property confiscated from departing Hindus and Sikhs in 1947.

Mr. Dillidost, our honest and decent friend, just stated:

{``#12 by delhiwala on May 2, 2006 1:28pm PT
Salimdost:
Why are you so angry today?
You are taking out the frustration on everyone today.

Do you really think Pakistanis will give a Dudly Squid(I really dont know the proper expression, please replace the correct one here),
about Sikhs?

My house in Quetta is used as a Officers schools for Police.

So, why dig graves for no reason, unless you are grave robber and there is some gold with the mummy????

Yes, you did support Sikhs restitution for the 1947 atrocities.
There are many such restitutions waiting in line hold a ticket all over the world, so what is the big deal. ``}

An apology for your intentionally malicious lie would be appreciated.

i get a sense that pakistan created a whole bunch of winners and losers in a kind of zero-sum game, and some changed places over time. e.g. behramji clearly feels he lost.

Urstruly #414 {``But basically, the Punjabi mentality is that of being assholes themselves - the unconditional vassalage of British has absolutely stripped them of any attributes of a decent, proud and law abiding nation. I think, abot 80% of British Indian Army was from Punjab. These were the people who had no qualms shooting at their own brethren rallying in Jalianwala procession of Khaksars in Lahore; they had not qualms shooting at Ottomans in the Mecca right inside the house of Allah. Basically a Punjabi has a slave mindset - oppress the weak and kiss the ass of oppressor. That is the reason Punjabi army is killing people all over Pakistan , in Baluchistan, in Wazirstan while licking American testicles. Sometimes it makes me ashamed of myself that I am a Punjabi. I wish I could scratch this punjabiat off my skin. Currently, Punjab provides the bulk of the muscle to the corrupt ruling class that oppresses the rest of the country. Punjab lacks basic tennants of human dignity and self-respect. And I write it with a heavey heart and God forbids but I think it is no more a matter of `if`, but it is the matter of `when` that the next biforcation of Pakistan that Na Pak fauj has in plans will be done in full complacence of Punjab.``}

Urstruly Sahib,
Thank you for an honest and sincere confession. But, please don`t be so harsh and don`t generalize to include all Punjabis. There were plenty of Urdu-speaking people who sold out to the British all the way from the early 1700s down to this day. I believe that Mir Jafar, many of the Muslim Leaguers, and a lot of AligaRh graduates were all Urdu-speaking. In fact, AligaRh in UP, unfortunately, was the first ``capital`` of Pakistan. Many officers in the British Indian Army, several ICS guys, and even today, Mushy and that ``temporary`` military president before him, I forget his name, were all Urdu speakers. Nevertheless, thank you for recognizing the main malaise afflicting Pakistan today. You are a very honest person. If it makes you feel any better, I don`t endorse the MQM wholeheartedly either.

Ibn-e-Jafar #400, {``Godot sahib thanks for your advice to Salim bhai, it also touched me.
... But people do know that it was the anti-Muhahjir camp which started this ugly cycle of hate replies. ...Further more I hope that our young age will make these uncles think twice about their ridiculous behaviour. Even though I am not hoping them to apologize from us (after all it would be against their egos) but hopefully the tehzeeb and tamadun instilled by our Muhajir parents in us would teach them some lesson.``}

Jafar Bhai,
Thanks to your post and Godot Sahib`s advice, I too feel sorry for the useless exchange of hateful posts. Like you, I want to apologize to anyone for some of my very racist and hurtful rebuttals. You are right about who started this cycle of hatred. Also, our legacy of tehzeeb, based on our Lucknowi Hindustani traditions, needs to guide our actions. You mentioned Bharatpur in one of your posts. I did pass through Bharatpur on my way from Jaipur to Achnera near Fatehpur Sikri on the way to Agra. My own grandfather`s ancestors had land holdings in southern UP which they lost in 1857, when they escaped to Jaipur from the British and their supporters.

I was only interested in helping the poor Pakistanis ``stranded`` in Bangladesh. Their plight and economically-driven conversion to Christianity has really touched many people, especially among the Mohajir diaspora in the west. I did not mean to start a Punjabi/Mohajir free for all. Frankly, I am appalled by the racism and bigotry exhibited by our so-called Muslim ``brethren.`` On the one hand they talk about pan-Islamism and Muslim virtues, and then they expose their true nature by their heartless rhetoric against their own Sunni co-religionists. Both the victims and the perpetrators of the Darfur genocide and the ``stranded`` Pakistanis` situation are Sunnis. In Iraq these Sunni extremists are blowing up Shia holy places and sending suicide-bombers to kill Shias in mosques and other public places. In Afghanistan, they have killed and raped Shias at will. In Baluchistan and Karachi, more of the same - killing of innocent Shias by extremist Wahabbi Sunnis. Even in Gligit and Baltistan, they are oppressing the native Shia population. This nonsense needs to be stopped.

Now, people are coming out of the woodwork calling MQM all sorts of names such as criminals, thugs, and terrorists. I offer a few facts as a rebuttal:

MQM has consistently won free democratic elections from Karachi. Some people harp on about democracy and yet when the people of Karachi vote for MQM, they want to ignore the will of the people. These are the same people who complain about the hypocrisy of the west in not recognizing the Hamas victory in the Palestinian elections.

MQM has effectively organized and conducted charitable donation campaigns to alleviate the suffering of the earthquake victims up north and the tsunami victims in the Indian Ocean. Several Chowkies, including some Punjabis, were praising the amount of relief donated by the citizens of Karachi with the donations organized by the MQM.

Maybe, our Punjabi ``brethren`` prefer the image of the docile Mohajir, willing to die and suffer at the hands of anyone. Thank God for MQM, killing Mohajirs is not considered routine. We can fight back and inflict a heavy punishment on those who dare to conduct genocide against us.

The ``stranded`` Pakistanis will Inshallah come to Karachi soon. It can happen earlier with the cooperation of the Pakistani Punjabis and Sindhis, or it can happen later with bribes that we will pay to four sets of border guards (BD, Indian, Indian, and Pakistani) as we get our people back the ``other`` way. This is money that could be used for humanitarian purposes. They need to think about it. Thank you for speaking up for the truth.

#417,

I used the term ``foreign mercenary``. It has nothing to with ideology. These mercenaries should not be allowed to use Pakistani territory.

Poor folks in Machar colony and bhains colony are hard working folks...They don’t attack Pakistani property and jeopardize the nation.

Re: # 416

HP

Lets be honest here. You support the extra-judicial murder of citizens of Pakistan under the establishment`s propaganda terminology ``foreign mercenaries`` because of your ideological slant towards the crusading invaders and not because some foreign pests have invaded our country. Why in every case, the victims are always turn out to be helpless women, children, and old men and not the `foreigners``? . Shouldn`t there be a law in this country to deal with illegal foreigners so that government doesn`t have to resort indiscriminate bombing of its own citizens? Should NaPak fauj also bomb Machar colony and bhains colony in Karachi to root out Bengali and Bumese illegal intruders?

#414 by Urstruly

“and Jay Sindh (though I reluctantly put JS in this category).”

I don’t agree with your analysis and I think every single foreign mercenary in the tribal area should be either killed or made to leave that area and the army should talk to Pakistani tribesmen but I am not in a mood to discuss that now.

However, I can tell you that a couple of Jiya Sindh groups were also created by the army and the agencies. At least one of them was supporting the MQM until recently.