Why Aren’t Muslim Women Converting to Christianity?

pakis are so colonial..

E. Panjab today is easily 25 % bihari. Many have converted to Sikhism..they all came in peacerfully to work on farms and factories..did not have any ``god given`` or ``jinnah given`` right. They are doing what Ashoka and Chandragupta started long back.

The reason that NaPak Army and blood sucking establishment of corrupt ruling class created MQM was to put an end to the ``urbanization`` of a large body of population in Sindh and make it a feudal population in unison with the rest of Pakistan. It is easier to control a population with guns rather than giving them rights and equity. So when `might is right ` becomes the law of the land, those who have the biggest guns rule the rest. Who has the biggest guns- NaPak fauj, who else? It is a fukking elaborate mind job, that people here must try to understand calmly.

It all started with the uprising in East Pakistan when NaPak fauj and corrupt ruling elite realized that there was no way they can keep the feudalized stronghold over the population of East Pakistan. So they biforcated the country without putting up any fight, to the naked aggression by India. After 1971 they realized that the next segment of population that has the potential to become``Bengalis`` was the urban sindh. So the establishment preemptivelly feudalized the population by creating the terrorist outfits like MQM, PPI and Jay Sindh (though I reluctantly put JS in this category). The -refeudalization of urban punjab started right after 1971 with assholes like Khar, Bhutto, Jehangir Badar, Hanif Ramay and bunch, when they were kidnapping women and keeping them in governor house and political assassinations were the order of the day . As a matter of fact the ``urbanization`` of urban punjab was in infantile stage and it was decades behind Karachi and urban sindh. But basically, the Punjabi mentality is that of being assholes themselves - the unconditional vassalage of British has absolutely stripped them of any attributes of a decent, proud and law abiding nation. I think, abot 80% of British Indian Army was from Punjab. These were the people who had no qualms shooting at their own brethren rallying in Jalianwala procession of Khaksars in Lahore; they had not qualms shooting at Ottomans in the Mecca right inside the house of Allah. Basically a Punjabi has a slave mindset - oppress the weak and kiss the ass of oppressor. That is the reason Punjabi army is killing people all over Pakistan , in Baluchistan, in Wazirstan while licking American testicles. Sometimes it makes me ashamed of myself that I am a Punjabi. I wish I could scratch this punjabiat off my skin. Currently, Punjab provides the bulk of the muscle to the corrupt ruling class that oppresses the rest of the country. Punjab lacks basic tennants of human dignity and self-respect. And I write it with a heavey heart and God forbids but I think it is no more a matter of `if`, but it is the matter of `when` that the next biforcation of Pakistan that Na Pak fauj has in plans will be done in full complacence of Punjab.

When people kill innocent people it really hurts. And that is what All Tuff and his goonda gurdee has been doing in Karachi. One of my Mohajir acquaintance who lives in Korangi, himself told me a place where these goondas would bring in people for indoctrination. Only some kind of a business card saved his ass. Now that is what the All Tuff gangsters have promoted for the people of Karachi.

For those of us who love Karachi and Karachiites, let us hear the agenda from the All Tuff gangsters. They have none. They want to be socialist yet they can not be. They want to be capitalist yet they cannot be. They are just like the weather cock at the Freere Hall, checking the prevailing wind, and then they suck up to the establishment to get the most for themselves. Let us know one worth agenda that these thugs have implemented in the city of Lights.

Heck, they have destroyed that city`s infrastructure. All Karachi used to be washed everyday right up to the mid-1950`s by KMC. This was under the three times mayor of Karachi, Jamshedjee Mehta.

Then suddenly in the mid-1970`s we learnt that there was no need of public toilets. Karachiites learnt how to pee on the streets. Instead of building public facilities folks at the KMC educated all of Karachi how to use roads, and lanes of Karachi to urinate.

O! and they were the enlightened mohajirs. Were they not?

Respectfully submitted,

Yes MQM is a creation of ARMY.... ISI or agencies as they are called...

But then agencies May Include the foreign Ones too....
Every One knew.... How those who were in need to get out of Pakistan during the
`` .... Operation Clean Up......`` , could get a USA`s Visa.....on a short 6-7 Hr Notice...
even in the middle of the Night... All he had to do was contact.... CERTAIN... persons in the MQM ...... and if their case is considered good enough.... would be provided a VALID USA Visa...
and within HOURs... he could be out of the country.....!!.....Every thing arranged.... even safe houses in foreign countries.....

... Yes MQM is trying to LAY a LOW Profile..... especially their ``.....Terrorist Image ...`` One..
....and in the process..... it seems they are even willing to `` ..........DISCARD............``
Their ``......... Mohajir...............`` Idendity...

[ recently Altaf Hussain.... has Disbanded the APMSO ( All Pakistan ``MOHAJIR`` Student Organization )...... and renamed it to APMSO which is Now ( All Pakistan `` MUTEHIDA `` Student organizatin ) .......]

and one of the reason .... cited for such is a need.... is again.... ``........Some element in the APMSO .....do not listen to the High Command and have gone out of Hand......``

This statement especially after a certain Incident in a certain College.... where even in the presence of Police..... CERTAIN.... element from APMSO.... strommed a college....picked up some student......and took them to a Class room....and then KILLED...One of them... ON THE SPOT......and without any fear..... simply walked out...
... it is also said.... there was a POLICE presence at the College.... when all of this was happening..... and NO one and I REPEAT no One... Interfered.....

That saya s LOT......

Also.... the allegation... that MQM May have a Hand in the elimination of the TOP..
Leadership of Sunni Tehrek ( 50 at a Go )..... in the Nishtar Park Blast..... considering the fact... ST and MQM or rather APMSO.... were at loger heads.... and their clashes had already claimed.... 7-8 lives within the last 3-4 Months....

..... I agree... MQM may have realized....to shed its.... ``........terrosist Image......``....
But for the time being.......!!

aquaris sahib:
i donot want to change the thrust of your argument just wanna add that Pakistan Army was a major supporter off and on behind this fascist organization. The agencies provided all kinds of support for these thugs or their counterpart Haqiqi to hold on to areas in karachi and terrorize the population. Without their connivance, it is kind of impossible for college going kids to get so massive that the whole city would be at their mercy.

Lately, MQM seem to be trying to shed its terrorist image by going strictly political. But i think if Amreeka and international scenario changed that favor liberation of Sindh then Altaf Bhai + Sindhi nationalists will abandon pakistan in a second. But this is just my impression.

Behram, 407

Making sweeping statements, you paint with a very broad brush. Needless to say, I’ve lost all my respect for you.

Re: # 407

...A conservative score is about 22,000 Live in about a decade...
making about 6-7 Daily.

... with some times.... the figure going into over 200 in a day..

MQM is listed among the august terrorist organization of the world...
see..

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/mqm.htm

and

http://www.satp.org/tracking/Goto.asp?ID=48%20



Briefly....

they started with Jeya Sindh confrontations [ Jamshoro University ]

Then Pathans... [ Bushra Zaidi `s case and the Sohrab goth Incidence...(which some consider pre-planned ).....] and this is the bloodiest..

Then Jumped in the PPI

Then they started the Inter factional WAR [ Mohajir against Mohajir .... MQM (h) against MQM (A)..... and this is still going on....... over 675 people killed from Jan 2005 to March 2006 ...... ]

... Inbetween.... they were coalition partners of FOUR so called ... Democratic setups...
which was marred by the Utter Lawless ness... and complete break down of Law and order.... Khaji ground, Pak colony,... No Go areas,... Gunni Bag Corpses.... were routine..... they were even sending them to the interior ....with the Word Gifts....
to a) Punjabis b) Pathans c) establishement.... depending on the Occasion...and the Number Killed..... 14 on 14 Augt ..... 23 on 23 Marches...etc....etc....

So the Army.... and then the other law enforcing forces were called in.... and then started what they called .... the `` Operation Clean Up ``
..... irrespective of the FACT.... that they have times and again admittted that Most of their ``..... Karkuns ...... `` are now beyond their controll..... so they tacitily allowed...these operations to comense.....
..... As none of these operations were unilaterel.....and were conducted.... with tacit approval..... Yet ... because ... it involved their vote bank....
so they started PLaying the victim game........... and this is their BOGGEY to Brainwash.... and Still LURE in the .... gullible polity of their vote bank...

.... MQM politics is politics of Hatred.... they Need some one... some target of their Hate.... whether Justified or Not... But they Need a Hate Target.... thats their survival....
..... they are the master of telling Half truths... twisting truths... . manipulating facts....
.... and some telling outright Lies......


...The Bottom Line is.... They have crimnalized TWO generations of URDU Speaking KARACHITIES........

....and this generation... that is the Third One... is in a STATE of Shock.......and will not come out of it... for at least.... the Next 8-10 Years....

Till then.... they will Keep enjoying the Massive Vote Bank.... they have...

Behram,

Thanks for some enlightening posts on a controversial subject. You have made a few excellent points. Regardless of the common umbrella, people will have their biases: likes and dislikes. I do not think that can be changed.

Regards.

The amount of killing that was conducted by the All Tuff group of thugs and goondas in Karachi should be the matter of discussion on this Chowk by these enlightened people. When these thugs came to Karachi, they always thought that it is their God given right to snatch away the properties of thousands of hindoos. They never for once dropped any crocodile tears. The bhayas were respectful people, yet were misdirected by the goondas who came over in the mid-1970`s.

All of them were busy producing 12 to 15 babies. And most of them were transported to Korangi to become gangsters, movaalis, and daadageers. They never learned to eat food with spoon or talk in an enlightened tone. They never learned how to talk in English, and yet these badmash cultists has taken refuge in the bossom of the west. These hate mongers continuously promote hatred towards enlightenment and progress. They supported the Jamaat-e-Islami in their campaign against development. That was all they learnt from the upheaval they went through in east Pakistan.

And that is whom I met. Most of them were depressed and cynical about life in Karachi, and they still are. No wonder they continuously promote hatred towards Pakistan and Pakistanis. They never have offered an iota of civility. They grab hold of any mechanism to destroy the fabric of soceity. Sometimes it is the establishement. Sometimes it is the jamatis. Sometimes it is being pro-India.

What the heck is their agenda? Garbage in garbage out (GIGO). Nobody knows, only their corrupt mind and their leaders know. This cult has always been anti-Pakistan and most Karachiites know them.

How can mohajirs support JI, and then suggest that they have sacrificed enormously for Pakistan? Only a demented mohajir mind can come up with an answer.

O! yeah, it must be the establishment. The establishment that they helped create themselves.

Respectfully submitted,

Anil sahib,

(Bihar, with raw materials and brains does not know how to connect the two to create prosperity yet. )

Raw materials is not true more after the creation of Jharkhand. You are right about the brains though. Bihar does not only produce IAS officers but lots of doctors and engineers too. Sadly with governance having collapsed and institutions dead, its principal export is now manpower- both of the skilled and non-skilled variety.

Regards

the amount of pure bigotary and racism on this board makes me thank Mr Jinnah. Now only if he lived 130 years..

teshah:403

If you read again what I wrote at 386, you will get the answer.

Balsphemy law has its roots, particularly, in the anglo-Indo-Pak context, in the British law. It has nothing whatsoever to do with any Islamic law. No need to quote hadith, ad nauseum,
to ``legetmise`` anything to suit the fancy & occasion. The ``unnatural`` deaths or fleeing of so many imams & noble scholars is a ``living`` testimony to that . It is ``precedence law`` which was invoked by some oppressors--just as it continues to be done even today in oppressive secular societies including the U.S or erstwhile soviet union. Constituitional rights are suspended , put on back burner, & Mcarthyism is reincarnated in all ages.

It might be a revelation to you that there can be, have been, and are thieves, robbers, prostitutes, and whatever among muslims--sometimes even in the garb of the pious, the doctors, scientists, or the do-gooder ngos.

Khudaya teray yeh sadaa dil bUnday kidhar jaaeN
kay Dervaishee bhhee ayyaree hai Sultani bhhee ayyari.......Allama Iqbal.

Please read the write-up in its Entirety. Thanks.

Re: # 386

Thank you Echboon for trying to put the discussion back on track.

I have read some of your post. I think like every religious movement Islam has a history. From the original persecuted Makki Islam it developed into a tyrannical despotic system with all the trappings of an oppressive state, with minor exceptions, before its downfall as a world power and ultimately to be associated now with terrorism of the worst type.

You say, ``Islamic law (shariah) is essentially a moral code with few legal pronouncements, and the question of which precepts are purely moral and which that have legal implications are determined through the theory of right``

I think an organized and politicised religion is essentially anti-human and anti-moral. Please let me know what moral you see in the Blasphemy lynching as related in the following Hadees:

``Sunnan Abu-Dawud
Book 38, Number 4348:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother (A slave-woman bearing children but not treated as a wife) who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood. ``

Does it not imply that any body can lynch any body by accusing him of blasphemy without going through any legal process? In Pakstan they tried to legalise it by a law called `Law of Blasphemy` but the people still prefer to lynch people by accusing them of blasphemy without resorting to any legal procedure.

Re: # 375

Bihar`s problem is tricky. It produces the largest number of IAS (Indian Administrative Services) officers, and has probably the largest deposits of minerals in India, they have not figured out how to connect the two to create prosperity. Bihar also has the logest run of the Ganges through their state. Bihar lacks a good leader.

Anil

Re: # 367

Harimau:

Boy, you are polite and quick to write off Biharis. Single largest knowledge industry in Bihar is producing IAS officers. Bihar, and U.P. have been generating negative GDP for years to come, but have the largest seat in Parliament. It can be a nightmare for India, if nothing is done, as it can send criminals to the parliament to decide the fate of India. Apparently, a minister in the Central Govt. had murder charges and was forced to leave, and an MP from Bihar had murder charges too. Bihar, with raw materials and brains does not know how to connect the two to create prosperity yet.

Anil

First off all I would like to apologize from all my elders (if some one is under 21 then to my juniors) in playing a minor role in making this discussion so ugly.

Gdot sahib thanks for your advice to Salim bhai, it also touched me.

Although my blood is till boiling after reading the vicious posts from Behram, Tahmmed, Hp and their ugly gang directed towards me and Salim bhai, but as Prophet (saws) said “ bravery is in to neglect the bad behaviour of you opponent rather then seeking revenge from him”. Being a direct descendant of his daughter I would like to set an example by saying sorry to all those Uncles whom I have hurt by challenging their egos. But people do know that it was the anti-Muhahjir camp which started this ugly cycle of hate replies.

Salim Bhai as you said “ If Behram neglected to tend his sugarcane in this trivial detail, how many other ``facts`` that he presents need to be taken with a grain of salt. Perhaps the sugarcane has been misdirected all along. :)”. Thanks for encouraging me in not replying back to a person who measures wisdom of other people on the criteria of their accent and number of children. It was very well put by you.

Further more I hope that our young age will make these uncles think twice about their ridiculous behaviour. Even though I am not hoping them to apologize from us (after all it would be against their egos) but hopefully the tehzeeb and tamadun instilled by our Muhajir parents in us would teach them some lesson.

Lastly not every one is born evil, let it be Biharis or Gypsies. It is the environment which makes them bad, let us try alleviating that bad influence from them and work towards a better and prosperous Pakistan, by engaging into a meaning full dialogue; rather then sweeping the problems of our country under the carpet.

Ibn-e-Jafar