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Why Aren’t Muslim Women Converting to Christianity?

Ahmer Muzammil April 25, 2006

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#574 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 6, 2006 2:01:02 pm
Harimau #572 {``it is a fact that when the Mohajirs migrated from Bihar and UP to Pakistan, the IQ at both ends (UP and Bihar being one and Pakistan the other) went up by 50%! ``}

Harry,
Only 50%? Judging by the intelligence of Mulayam Singh and Laloo Prasad, also I believe the Maywati was also there somewhere, not to mention Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi, and Priyanka Gandhi, along with Mrs. Sanjay Gandhi, it is more like 75%. Altaf Bhai is further proof of that strange phenomenon. :)
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#572 Posted by harimau on May 5, 2006 5:24:49 pm
Ref Salim_Chauhan #563

[#561,
Thank you Aasif Bhai. This explains the large emigration of Mohajirs from Pakistan. I wonder if Pakistan has benefited from this brain drain.]

I wouldn`t know about that but it is a fact that when the Mohajirs migrated from Bihar and UP to Pakistan, the IQ at both ends (UP and Bihar being one and Pakistan the other) went up by 50%!
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#571 Posted by jang on May 5, 2006 3:57:48 pm
#532 for kanpur enthusiasts ;-).. its was featured recently in a hindi movie ``Bunty Aur Bubbly``.. i could not tell if it was on site shooting, but they did show a place called ``Dhaggu Ke Laddu`` where Abhishek B and Ranu Mukherjee have some chai-nashta, that made me authentic enough.
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#570 Posted by jang on May 5, 2006 3:49:53 pm
#568..yes...mulganj is now mostly foreigners (nepali). the road outside the ``Cawnpore Kotwali`` (you can almost feel 1857 there) was full of gun shops..the double-barrrel types.
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#573 Posted by anil on May 5, 2006 11:37:37 pm
Re: # 570

Jang:

In late 50s to a 10 year old that road outside Cawnpore Kotwali, one that went to Bada Chauraha, was impressive the entrance to Kotwali look very big to soon to be teenager.

I used to walk in front of it twice a day to school in 5th and 6th grade.

I did not mean Mulganj in the way you mean. I was only talking from the decay, dirt and cars being parked in the middle of Meston Road.

I certainly missed the scene in Bunty aur Babli.

Anil
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#569 Posted by HP on May 5, 2006 3:11:18 pm

#567 by jang

Now I am telling you to heel...Achaar would follow...

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#567 Posted by jang on May 5, 2006 3:07:48 pm
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#566 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 2:13:59 pm
I am glad that Behram has taken my advice and gone to Sugar`s to consume Lone Star in large quantities and become three sheets to the wind. These batliwallas have thrist too.
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#565 Posted by Raw_Dust on May 5, 2006 2:00:08 pm
RE: Urstruly:
``I am referring to the bullcrap myth that at the time of partition, the only people who were educated in this part of the world, where the urdu speaking migrants and rest were just illiterate red indians. This shit goes along with the superiority of urdu langauge over the others too. While paunjabis are quite comfortable with their own language and heritage but others are quite apprehensive. Isn`t it the fact that when urdu was in its formative years there were masterpieces being created in Punjabi as Baba farid, Guru nanak, Bulleh shah, Waris shah were penning their epics. On the other hand sindh has a long tradition of creating literature with names like Shah Bhitai, Qazi Ayaz, Chachnama etc.``






1 - The myth of Urdu speaking being Ehle-Zubaan and Mohazzab or the true inheritors of muslim high culture of inida is just a lot of hot air. And you prolly agree, that every group got its own 2-bit story about the ``grand`` traditions of their past. Every group likes to hype their own kind with certain patterns of BS. Lahoris got their own spiel and Jatts from gujrat got their own, Arayains say they were oppressed by jatts but produced the real intellectuals compared to low iq crude Jaatts who were powerful and land owners.etc etc.

2 - In my observation (very personal) karachiites/urdu speakers tend to be more sensitive to people`s ethnic background than say a punjabi. So yeah, they tend to be more prejudiced.I say it`s prolly has to do with the inherent insecurities that a migrant has to deal with. just ike pakistanis who move to the west tend to remain with their own crowd and such.

3 - I agree with you on imposition of Urdu. It was catastrophic for Pakistan (the real one that existed pre-1971). I had come across translations of sheikh ayaz and anonymous sindhi short story writers and enjoyed them alot. A little bit of Bulleh Shah too. So, definitely comparing urdu lit. with any other lit. is kind of stupid.

I have different ideas than the uncle types here who are getting all so worked up in their very ``civilized`` exchanges. I am better off with my uncivilized crew at quetta hotel @ nipa chowrangi over a chai paratha.





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#564 Posted by HP on May 5, 2006 1:56:47 pm
#562 Asif,

Excellent job...I will read them and comment on them if necessary, later..
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#563 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 1:51:42 pm
#561,
Thank you Aasif Bhai. This explains the large emigration of Mohajirs from Pakistan. I wonder if Pakistan has benefited from this brain drain.
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#562 Posted by Aasif on May 5, 2006 1:50:56 pm
[contd ]

Attracting enrollment in Sindh was probably a case of a need for better publicity. In Baluchistan, both cultural attitudes to modern education and lack of a comprehensive communication network went against the popularity of AIOU.28 Here,thequota lacked a support mechanism which would have led to intended results in remote areas. <b>The quota system as defined along ethnic lines did not operate in universities and colleges within Punjab, the NWFP and Baluchistan. However, Sindh represented a special case. Here, an urban-rural quota

reflected a mohajir-Sindhi dichotomy and therefore created a high level of tension between the two communities. It isnot surprising that students belonging to these communities emerged in leadership positions in their respective nationalist movements. <b> The mohajirpolitical party, the MQM was established by the founder-leaders of a student organisation APMSO (All Pakistan Mohajir Student Organisation), led by Altaf Hussain in both cases. In the case of the Sindhi nationalist movement, students provided the cadre and core constituency of G M Syed`s Jiye Sindh Mohaz and later formed a breakaway faction of that party. A heightened sense of alienation prevailed on both sides of the ethnic divide. Mohajir students with better grades were denied admission to Karachi University, NED University of Engineering and various other educational institutions, while Sindhi students with lower grades were able to enter on the strength of rural quota. However, the Sindhi student community remained on the margins of the large student body in Karachi and often failed to compete with its compatriots from the rival community during the period spent in colleges or universities. This further created a sense of alienation among Sindhis.

>During the MQMmovement in the decade following its first electoral victory in the 1987 local bodies elections, the issue of quotas has been at the heart of a bitter controversy. The Punjab-based public opinion and power structure which had initially adjusted to the idea of a policy of reserved seats due to the demands of other provinces, now increasingly felt that the efficacy of this policy had run out and its cost had become politically unbearable. However, national governments which were elected in 1988 and 1990, 1993 and 1997 have been in one way or another dependent on the support of smaller provinces and thus shied away from alienating them only to appease the MQM. During the 1997 elections, the MQM put pressure on its ally the PML (Pakistan Muslim League) to do away with quotas after it came to power, in exchange for its continued support. The PML obtained a massive mandate in the 1997 elections when it won 134 out of 204 seats and 45.88% of the polled votes. Its archrival the PPP sank to a mere 18 seats and 21.80% votes at the national level. In the crucial province of Sindh, the PPP was not able to win a majority. The MQM got 26 as opposed to the PML’s 15 and the PPP’s 34 seats.The dependence of the PML on the MQM for establishing a coalition government inKarachi was acute. All this paved the way for taking a step towards eliminating quotas which was the cornerstone of the MQM’selectoral agenda. While elected representatives from the NWFP and from amongst Sindhis in Sindh continued to protest against their meagre representation in services on the floor of the parliament as well as out in the press, the new government found it politically expedient tor emove a thorn on its side in the form of the quotas in the educational institutions.


The critical move in the direction of removing the quota system was taken by the caretaker government of Mairaj Khalidin January 1997. This government was ideally placed in a position where it could take a controversial decision because it was not dependent on keeping members of parliament on its side in the event of a showdown. The cabinet decided on the recommendations of a task force reviewing discretionary powers vested in the ministries/divisions that admissions to educational institutions should be regularized. This meant: no quotas; selection to be on the basis of committee decisions and not on an individual basis; and no quotas for defence services.32 Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif ordered that all federal and provincial discretionary quotas for jobs, allotment of plots, admissions to schools/colleges, and grant of scholarships should be abolished forthwith.33 There was confusion about whether the discretionary quotas listed to be eliminated included provincial/regional/district quotas as well, whether foreign and selffinancing students fell under that category, and whether any or all of these categories were ‘quotas’ or ‘reservations’ to be continued or


discontinued.34 A spirit of caution prevailed in the corridors of power on these and related issues in order to avoid a new spurt of confusion as opinion on the question of quota continued to be deeply divided. It is unlikely that the debate about affirmative action policies will disappear from public fora in the near future. First, too many vested interests ranging from university employees and teachers to various designated underprivileged communities and regions have a stake in maintaining the quota system. The government may like to take the sting out of the new policy measure by offering some ad hoc appointments to these groups or slowing down the process of implementation of this policy or being selective in categorising certain quotas which would not be abolished. Secondly, a great deal of tension is rooted in the parallel problem of issuance of domicile certificates which provide the legal basis of defining provincial/regional quotas. This involves a huge task of streamlining administration at the service-giving end and making the whole process of issuing domicile certificates fully transparent. Thirdly, in the context of Karachi, the government needs to concentrate on the roots ofinter-ethnic tension in terms of incessant waves of migration from the upcountry which puts enormous pressure on employment opportunities, civic amenities and housing schemes in general. The holding of a census to determine the demographic, professional and locational aspect of life in urban Sindh in particular and Pakistan in general is imperative under the circumstances. Only after reality on the ground is fully grasped, can policies dealing with reservations of seats in educational institutions and services be clearly formulated. Finally, the quota system in Pakistan based on affirmative action policies is inherently problematic. On the one hand, the principle of liberal democracy as enshrined in the Constitution demanded that there should be no discrimination between citizens. On the other hand, provisions for preferential policies do not neatly fall in line with the spirit of liberalism nor with the cause of national integration. And yet, communities and groups which have not been able to move ahead in terms of education and recruitment in services in the past would be permanently disadvantaged if there was open competition based on merit. Migration from the upcountry areas as well as from Afghanistan and other neighbouringcountries needs to be controlled and interests of the local population should be safeguarded against rude competition from non-locals. In this context, the fraudulent ways of getting domicile certificates and claiming jobs on that basis should be stopped.


Mohammad Waseem is Quaid-i-Azam Fellow, St. Anthony’s College,


Oxford, UK
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#561 Posted by Aasif on May 5, 2006 1:44:23 pm

from here


three major quota systems have been in operation. The first system, introduced in September 1948, provided for a regional/provincial model of recruitment.

Region / Province Quota

%

Population %

East Bengal

42

56.75

(West) Punjab

24

28.00

Karachi

2

1.50

All other provinces and princely states of West Pakistan


17
15

13.75
(9.80)


Potential migrants from India

(Included in the above)




It is instructive to see that East Bengal which accounted for56.75% of the population of Pakistan got a share which was well below its demographic strength. Similarly, Karachi which had a population of around one million in 1951actually got a share which was 50% more than its share in the nationalpopulation. While a substantial portion of the federal bureaucracy located in Karachi belonged to the migrant group, the new policyguaranteed an additional 15% share in services for potential migrants from India. ‘Local’ elements were naturally restive over thespecific provision for those Muslims in India who were planning to migrate to Pakistan. In the view of locals, this provision unduly favoured migrants considering their over-representation inservices before independence. In due course, the provision for the quota ofmigrants was abolished, while a provision for introducing the principle ofmerit as the ultimate goal of official policy was brought in. Thus, a revisedquota system was implemented in November 1949 along the following lines:

Category

Quota %

Merit

20

East Bengal

40

Punjab (including Bahawalpur)

23

Karachi

2

All other provinces and princely states

15

The provision for merit almost guaranteed jobs for candidates from either Punjab or the mohajirs.Therefore, the revised quota system changed little on the ground. It onlyredefined certain categories and rationalized the basis for categorisationof candidates in general. The quota for all areas other than East Bengal,Punjab and Karachi – which included Baluchistan, Sindh and the NWFP and various princely states ranging fromDir, Chitral and Swat to Khairpur,Kharan, Mekran and Lasbela - was internally undifferentiated, because it hadno specific quota for individual regions or provinces. In the 1949 quotasystem, the share of East Bengal and non-Punjab areas of West Pakistan was slightly reduced by 2% in each case. This loss forthe ‘local’ provinces actually represented a gain for <b>migrants of bothPunjabi and mohajir extraction who captured 20% of jobs put asidefor recruitment on merit. Their acknowledged superior educationalqualifications and skills almost guaranteed their inclusion in services underthis provision.</b>

…

adevelopment of dire political consequence took place when Yahya’s martial law government (1969-71) extended the quota system to urban and rural sectors within the province of Sindh. According to the new formula, the rural and urbanpopulation of that province was given 60% and 40% representation in bothprovincial and federal services respectively. In this way, the governmentsought to placate Sindhis who typically representedthe rural population and who were grossly under-represented in higher educationand services. The Urdu-speaking migrant community of mohajirswho were generally over-represented in these fields and who were closelyidentified with the urban sector started to feel the pinch of the new law afterthe Sindhi-dominated government of the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) came topower in the Centre as well as in the province of Sindhin December 1971. The formal provisions of law concerning ethnic preferentialpolicies now acquired a new lease of life from the popular legitimacy of thePPP government based on a mass mandate. The new policy served Sindhis well inasmuch as it opened up doors for their entryinto educational institutions and services despite their lack of performance interms of quality on a competitive basis. This policy greatly alienated mohajirs as it effectively closed the doorson many of them for entry into these institutions and services. This created awidespread feeling of despair among the mohajiryouth who took to a

militant form of nationalism under the leadership of AltafHussain within a decade and half of the extension ofthe quota system to the urban and rural sectors in Sindh.The 1973 Constitution not only kept the quota system alive but also extendedthe period of its enactment by another 10 years. It provided for theaccommodation of hundreds of thousands of people in Sindhwho had come from Punjab and the NWFP and who had acquired a domicile on thebasis of a residential status for three years in that province. This providedprotection to a large number of people who had settled in Sindhduring the One Unit period (1955-1970) and who had now become bonafide residents of the province. They wererecruited into the services, especially the police, in large numbers. That wasbound to hurt mohajir interests.Additionally, the 1973 Constitution had scaled down the provision of seats tobe filled on merit from 20% to 10%. That meant that the mohajirswho generally filled these vacancies in Sindh onthe basis of their higher educational qualifications were less privileged thanbefore. The 1973 Constitution rescheduled the share of the constituent parts ofpost-Bangladesh Pakistan. Under the revised rules for prescribing ratios ofmerit and provincial/regional quotas following the new constitution, variousquotas were reserved for direct recruitment to posts filled on an all-Pakistanbasis.6 The new commitment to giving proportionate representation tounderprivileged communities was reflected through the provision that allprovincial/regional quotas were ‘to be worked out to the 1000th fraction’.

Category

Quota %

Merit

10

Punjab

50

Sindh

19 (Rural 11.4, Urban 7.6)

NWFP

11.5

Baluchistan

3.5

Northern Areas and

4

Azad Kashmir

2

….

The quota for jobs for these regions was meant to bring their elites into the national circuit in education and jobs and thus keep their perceived grievances from developing into hard political demands. In regional terms, this represented a slow but steady current of opportunities moving in the direction of the upcountry areas in terms of new jobs at the expense of the southern part of Pakistan, especially urban Sindh. Itcontributed to the emergence of a politically restive mohajircommunity in Karachi and other cities of that province

The new quota system did not provide a separate share for Karachi. That city was no more a separate administrativeentity and had become the capital of the province of Sindh after the dissolution of the One Unit in 1970. The mohajir nationalist elements represented bythe MQM maintain that the population of Karachi has grown from one million in 1951 to an estimatedtwelve million in the 1990s which would require a massive increase in the quotafor that city. The MQM leadership condemned what it considered a grossly unfairquota of a mere 2% for Karachi instead of one that should be many times higher. Itmobilized the mohajir community on thisissue and thus made political capital out of it. However, it is generally notrealized that there is actually no more a separate quota for Karachi or any other city of Pakistan. Instead, what is really at stake for the mohajirs is their representation in theprovincial and federal services at the level of Sindh.In recent years, certain mohajir activistelements have abandoned their outright opposition to the quota system and haveaccepted the logic of proportionate representation in education and employment.They now demand that their share should be fixed according to their increasedratio in the population of Sindh and Karachi. They claim that the 60:40 ratio of rural-urbanpopulation in the province of Sindh which hadprovided the basis for the provincial quota system had now changed to 40:60 intwenty years because of successive waves of migration into urban Sindh from the upcountry provinces of Punjab and the NWFP,from interior Sindh and from the neighbouringcountries such as Iran, Iraq, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Afghanistan. Thepremier mohajir party, the MQM, hasdemanded a new quota according to the latest population figures and claimed thatthe results of the censuses held in 1972 and 1982 were grossly tampered with inorder to bring down the number of mohajirs.9 It demanded thata new census should be held as soon as possible and a new schedule for quotashould be provided on the basis of findings of that census. Unfortunately, whena preliminary effort in this direction was made in the form of a householdcensus in 1992, both mohajirs and Sindhis allegedly returned grossly inflated numbers.

Successive governments in Pakistan have failed to hold a census ever since 1982. The Benazir Bhutto government (1993-96) constantly balked overthe issue of holding a census. The current Nawaz Sharif government announced that a census be held inOctober 1997 but then postponed it for six months. As long as actual figuresfor urban and rural sectors in Sindh are not known,no change in the current structure of the quota system can be visualized. Theproblem was compounded by the fact that hundreds of thousands of mohajirs lived in small cities and townsoutside the three main cities of Karachi, Hyderabad and Sukkar which weretogether designated as urban areas for the purposes of quota. Therefore, theywere unable to use the urban quota and were effectively disenfranchised foremployment purposes. A large number of Sindhis wholived in the three mohajir cities’managed to get a share in the rural quota

In this context, the relevance of the wide abuse of domicile certificates for appointment of jobs against provincial/regional quota needs to be mentioned. During the first decade after partition many of those who migrated from India were able to enter the civil service, thus shuttingout local candidates from their due share in these services. Often they madedeclarations that they had resided for over a year in such provinces as Sindh, East Bengal and the NWFP where competitive conditions were easier. Later, they generally did not have any connection with their domiciled province. In 1956, the government of Pakistan tried to check recruitment of migrant candidates ‘on spurious grounds’ by requiring them to provide ‘proof of three years’ residence/education in the Province against whose quota they claimed to be considered.10 However, the condition of a stay of three years was deemed to have been satisfied in various cases such as foreign education, parents’ domicile in the province, parents’ residence outside the province due to ‘exigencies of service’ and so on.11 This allowed awide abuse of the provision for domicile by migrant candidates even after theofficial move. Two decades later, when the quota system based on a regional anda sectoral basis had been already implemented in Sindh, the abuse of domicile by new migrants from Punjab and the NWFP turned tables against the mohajirs. The practice of getting and usingcertificates of domicile in Sindh for entry into theservices by residents of other provinces emerged as an explosive politicalissue. The provision for a three years stay in the province for the purpose ofdomicile was misused to scandalous proportions, especially by the upcountrymigrants. This made the political situation potentially volatile. Therequirement of belonging to the region pushed the potential candidates for jobsfrom outside the region to getting fake domicile certificates showing that theywere local inhabitants. The fact that the higher bureaucracy was recruited onan all- Pakistan basis and Punjab got the lion’s share in the administrativehierarchy meant that Punjabi civil servants, especially police officials, couldbe easily approached for providing the ‘service’ of issuing fake certificatesto Punjabi immigrants into Karachi. This has led to the MQM’sdemand for a requirement of stay in the area for 20 years along with the familyas a prerequisite for issuing a domicile certificate.12 In this way,policies of ethnic preference combined with the relatively lax conditions forgetting a local domicile involving all kinds of corrupt practices created anexplosive situation as far as representation of mohajirsin the services was concerned. It is instructive to see that between 1973and 1983 all ethnic groups identified with their respective provinces increasedtheir representation in the services with the only exception of the mohajirs whose share declined from 30.1% to 17.4% for all grades and from 33.5% to 20.2% for senior grades.13 As thefollowing table shows, this trend continued during the years except that theshare of Punjabis insenior grades grew even higher.

Ethnic Group

1973

1983

1986

All

Senior

All

Senior

All

Senior

Punjabi

49.3

53.5

54.9

55.8

55.3

57.7

Pathan

10.5

7

13.4

11.6

12.6

12.1

Sindhi

3.1

2.7

5.4

5.1

7.2

6.7

Mohajir

30.1

33.5

17.4

20.2

18.2

18.3

NA

2.6

1.3

3.6

3.4

1.4

1.5

AJK

1.8

0.5

1.9

0.9

1.7

0.7

Total

100

100

100

100

100

100

Source: Charles H.Kennedy, ‘Managing Ethnic Conflict :The Case of

Pakistan’, Regional Politics and Policy, Spring 1993, no1, p 138.

A few years later, the situation on the ground changed further. Punjab now enjoyed a share in services which was more thanits designated share in the quota. The mohajirs’margin of overrepresentation came down from three times their designated shareto only a fraction above that. Sindhis representedthe other side of the same coin as they moved up from a mere trickledown to afigure approximating their quota.

Region

Ratio of Jobs (%)

Quota (%)

Punjab

62.36

50

Sindh (Urban)

9.51

7.5

Sindh (Rural)

7.63

11.4

NWFP

12.41

11.5

Baluchistan

3.01

3.5

NA/FATA

3.69

4

AJK

1.29

2

Initially mohajir officers occupied the highestpositions in the bureaucracy. Under Ayub, many ofthese officers made a horizontal move to become executive heads of the emergentpublic corporations where the recruitment basis was not necessarily as rigidand as regionally defined as in the mainstream bureaucracy. Here, the situationwas different both in a negative sense in terms of patronage and nepotism andin a positive sense in terms of merit. Thus, mohajirrepresentation in the officer grades in the autonomous/semi-autonomous bodies and public corporations of the federal government was far higher than in the civil bureaucracy.

Representation inAutonomous Bodies/Public Corporations : 1993

Province

Number

Percentage

Quota

Punjab

25,772

49.94

50

Sindh (Urban)

13,815

26.77

7.6

Sindh (Rural)

4,213

8.16

11.4

NWFP

5,249

10.17

11.5

Baluchistan

1,255

2.43

3.5

NA

-

-

-

FATA

638

1.24

4

AJK

664

1.29

2

Source: EstablishmentDivision, Government of Pakistan, Islamabad,Statementshowing Number of Employees, Province and Grade wise, in BPS 17 and aboveworking in the Autonomous/Semi-Autonomous Bodies/Corporations of the FederalGovernment, 1January 1993

The regional/provincial quota, implemented under the pressure of politicians from provinces other than Punjab, was applied only to vacancies filled by directrecruitment at entry point. It was not applicable to promotion or even transferof government servants to posts in equivalent grades either on deputation orotherwise on secondment.14 This means that even though recruitment into serviceson the quota basis may benefit candidates from the underdeveloped regions inthe long run, the dominant power in the short run remains in the hands of thedeeply entrenched bureaucratic elements from traditionally privilegedcommunities of Punjabis and mohajirs whocan exercise their authority to screen out the former from powerful positions.While politicians operating on the floor of the parliament have generallysupported policies of regional balance, the bureaucracy has continued toexercise its authority in favour of the previouslydominant ethnic communities in the self-serving framework of merit. Sometimespolitical governments in provinces other than Punjab showed keenness torecommend the appointment of ‘suitable candidates’ if and when candidates withthe required qualifications domiciled in those provinces were not available.15 In Baluchistan, a special cell was established in the Services and General Administration Department (S & GAD) for finding employment for ‘the large number of simple BAs/MAs being jobless in the province’.16 It was also recommended that selection teams should visit various divisional headquarters so that a fair chance could be given to all the districts of Baluchistan.17 Similarly, itwas acknowledged that there existed a sense of deprivation among the residentsof the Bahawalpur Division and instructions wereissued to give preference to that division of Punjab in the matter ofrecruitment to the services in order to compensate for its under-representationin the administrative apparatus of the country. Thus, once the principle ofpreferential recruitment was accepted, the quota system tended to move from theregional/provincial level downwards to sectors, divisions and districts. Apartfrom this vertical pattern of expansion of quota, one can also observe ahorizontal pattern inasmuch as this principle was extended to autonomous andsemiautonomous bodies including public corporations, banks and insurancecompanies.

An offshoot of these affirmative action policies was the provision for relaxation of rules relating to age, qualification and experience for candidates from the underdeveloped regions. This happened as elected governments were installed in the federal and provincial capitals in the 1970s and again after martial law was lifted in 1985.18 Democracy in the post-military state of Pakistan has shown a tilt in favourof a dyarchical pattern of authority, formallyrepresented by a parliament but informally and selectively operated byextra-parliamentary forces. Macro-level policies of national interest remainedthe preserve of the militarybureaucraticestablishment, especially those relating to security, finance and foreignpolicy. Parliamentary politics increasingly operated in a nonissueand non-policy framework. In this situation, politics was based on patronagewhereby local, regional and provincial politicians were able to get certainconditions for entry into the services relaxed for their coethnics.The upper age limit in the case of tribal candidates was relaxed by three yearsin 1968. The ‘recognized tribes’ for this purpose in (W) Pakistan wereresidents of Quetta and Kalatdivisions of Baluchistan, Lasbeladistrict and Nasirabad sub-division of Khairpur division in Sindh aswell as parts of the FATA, the D G Khan district in Punjab and Hazara district in the NWFP.19 Later in 1984, the upper agelimit was relaxed for the whole of Baluchistan, ruralSindh, the FATA and the Northern Areas.20 This was anobvious response to the 1983 MRD (Movement for Restoration of Democracy)agitation which had taken an aggressive, indeed even violent turn in Sindh. The mohajir communitywhich was electorally weak as a minority in Sindh and was thus unable to form a government or play a crucial role in maintaining a government in power failed to keep its relatively strong position in the services from constantly declining. Provincial governments reflecting the ethnic sentiment of their respective core constituencies occasionally tried to shut the door on migrants by requiring that candidates should state the place of birth of their fathers on the application forms. A notification of the federal government in 1978 declared that no candidate was to be asked this question.21 However, in the following years, the MQM was able to usethese cases to mobilize its constituency on the issue of alleged discriminationagainst the mohajirs. Throughout the Bhuttoperiod (1971- 1977), mohajirs feltalienated from the government because of the sectorbasedquota system which discriminated against them. However, as  opposed tothe mohajirs’ expectations, Zia ul Huqarbitrarily extended the ten year period for the quota system provided by the1973 Constitution by another ten years. Not surprisingly, the MQM effectivelymobilized mohajirs on the issue of adverse effects of preferential policies. Literacy rates for Pakistan in general and Karachi, the premier mohajircity, in 1981 were 23.3% and 55% respectively. That meant a greater demandfor jobs for the latter. However, quotas for the two provinces were 19% and 50%respectively.22 These quotas were based on the census figures which werethemselves obsolete. Within Sindh, the officialpolicy of positive discrimination in favour of Sindhis according to the 60:40 ratio for rural and urban sectors, combined with the increasing number of the domiciled upcountry migrants eating into the urban quota to produce a high level of accumulatedanger in the mohajir youth. The political wisdom of implementing the quota system in the past, at least in terms of placating Sindhis, was increasingly questioned by the articulate sections of the population. The political cost ofkeeping the quota system in terms of alienation of mohajirs was considered damaging for political stability. The MQM effectively de-legitimized the quota system at least in the way that it was implemented in Sindh even as it was considered politically difficult for a government to roll back the quota system.


Various other forms of reservations in the services operated which were less controversial and were therefore not on the agenda of political parties. For example, it was required that one percent of the total number of jobs should be reserved for disabled persons.23 Similarly, the upper age limit was relaxed in the case of released/retired officers/personnel of the Pakistan armed forces upto a maximum of 10 years for both ex-cadre gazetted posts and non-gazettedcivil posts filled outside the competitive examination.24 In certain other cases where admission into the pensionable service of the state without the sanction of the head of department was not allowed after the age of 25, employment in civil capacities of reservists and pensioners of the Pakistan army was permissible.25 In this way, early retirement from service in the armed forces was considered a valid ground for providing preferential treatment to the affected people in their search for alternative jobs. Under Zia ul Haq, at least 10% of jobs in both public and private sectors were reserved for the personnel from the armed services.


The quota system operated in educational institutions along regional as well as other lines. For example, the University of Arid Agriculture reserved seats along the following lines: rain-fed districts (bypassing canal irrigated districts of central and southern Punjab); provincial quotas for provinces of SindhBaluchistan and NWFP to be nominated by their respective governments; the district of Islamabad; and FATA, Azad Kashmir and Northern Areas, to be nominated by itsdirector agriculture, Azad Kashmir government and the director education Gilgit respectively; sports quota; children of agricultural graduates; self-finance scheme whereby students paid a heavy fee and thus ‘bought’ their way into the university; foreign students; Pakistan army; Pakistan air force; children of the university employees; and vice chancellor`s quota.26 Similarly, the University of Agriculture, Faisalabadprovided quotas for admissions for the following categories: sports quo; district quota; employees quota; graduates’ children quota; co-curricular quota; and children of overseas Pakistanis/minority communities.27Federal universities such as Quaid-i-Azam University (QAU) Islamabad and Allama IqbalOpen University (AIOU) Islamabad followed the same schedule for reservation of seats which operated in the job sector, ranging from 50% for Punjab to 2% for Azad Kashmir, along with sectoralquotas for Sindh. The QAU experienced a keen competition among students from all over Pakistan with the possible exception of Baluchistan. However, AIOU was unable to recruit students from Sindh, especially Karachi, as well as from Baluchistan.Attracting enrollment in
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#560 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 1:44:14 pm
Behram,
You are rapidly disintegrating. I am afraid for your continued presence. Please desist from this typically ``Pisser-e-Zameen`` behavior of discussing motherhood. We all have mothers and they are all good - so keep them out of the discussion. Thank you. Go, go to Sugar`s as I told you. Cool down. As the Aussies say, you appear to be pissed. Nothing about being angry, just don`t post while you are pissed.
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#559 Posted by HP on May 5, 2006 1:36:08 pm

Okay guys...it is getting out of hand now...

Behram calm down...no need to get dirty....

No more posts please....

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#558 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 1:32:20 pm
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#557 Posted by Godot on May 5, 2006 1:28:20 pm

Behram

Dude, what’s up with your “mother” attack? Can’t deal with me so attack my parents, especially my mother! You are a true ball-less coward and live up to your title of batli-vala! You call yourself “a man of integrity”? You forgot to add “dignity”!

You may be good in science but certainly are not in manners and definitely lack self-respect.

Yes, I’ve gone through life with all sorts of hashish and it was a lot of fun (yummy) while you were burning you jhant back then as you are now.

“Abay jhantu pichkari!”

That’s hilarious…especially coming from an “educated” person and “a man of integrity,” and of course a man of dignity!

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#556 Posted by Behram1 on May 5, 2006 1:06:05 pm
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#555 Posted by jang on May 5, 2006 12:00:48 pm
heh heh..you lucknowis are so polite..if it were good panjabis, much more colorful language would be on the display.
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#554 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 11:51:07 am
#553, Godot,
This must be Batliwalla`s lucky day. He has met at least two Mohajirs who can carry on in proper English with him. Just wait till Raw_Dust and Aasif Bhai show up. Should we form a circle now?
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#553 Posted by Godot on May 5, 2006 11:45:57 am
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#552 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 11:43:19 am
Behram1 #548 {``Did you mother taught you ...``}

A few days ago you were yappin` about not having met a Mohajir from Karachi who could carry on a decent conversation in English with you. No wonder, first you should learn proper English yourself. The correct word in this case should be ``teach`` and not ``taught.`` Perhaps they are wondering the same thing about you.
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#551 Posted by jang on May 5, 2006 11:41:34 am
i am getting really pissed..i can deal with all kinds of abuse, but please live innocent pan ki giloree alone.
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#549 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 11:35:33 am
#547, Behram1 {``Are you suggesting that urdu-speaking bhayas are afterall idiots that they would continue running away from progress and development in their home India. ``}

Behram Brader-e-man,
Bebakhsid, nakheir, I can understand that you guys don`t remember Farsi, but even your English comprehension has dwindled. :)

That is why I said ``Pray that India`s economy keeps getting stronger and communcal harmony is maintained...`` Let me translate that for you into Texese:

Y`all betta hope that the bidinez in Injiaa keeps on gaiting betta and betta and thar`s piss `N harmonium in da laained, so that the Ooodoo-gibberin Mooozelims simma down an staay theya n nawt cum to Karaaachee n piss on tawp uf yaar boots.

Kapish?
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#550 Posted by Behram1 on May 5, 2006 11:40:42 am
Re: # 549

LOL..now that is funny

Thanks
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#546 Posted by HP on May 5, 2006 11:16:15 am


What is mubasharat?

Is it what I think it is....

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#545 Posted by Godot on May 5, 2006 11:11:17 am
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#548 Posted by Behram1 on May 5, 2006 11:34:20 am
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#544 Posted by Behram1 on May 5, 2006 11:09:54 am
Salim and Godot:

Why do you think that all those urdu-speaking mohajir Doctors who come to the US end up given internship as a psychologist (shrinks)? Is there some truth that most urdu-speakers are so depressed in the west, hence they are better served, if they understand human psychology first. Then, maybe, they can qualify and bring their other brethren to the enlightened masses of the world. Regardless how long All Tuff remains in the west, he has an inherent psychological problem, and sooner or later, one of ya`ll will figure it out.

But, you must first recognize that killings of over 20,000 Karachiites can only be done by those who have a built in hate.

Your nation (if there are any) of urdu-speakers have been debunked now. I am sure any Karachiite who is following this would come to realize how lunatics behave whether on Honda 50 or in a limo on the streets of Chicago. I am sorry for your ilk, who follow the gangsters of the All Tuff goonda brigade.

Have you ever read any political agenda or manifesto of your leaders? What do they want Pakistan to be in the next 20 years? Heck, besides hate, murder, and mayhem, these people have not come forward with any political agenda. All their values are negating others, and they stand for nothing. Now, that is what you get by discussing anything with a paan chewing peeing urdu-speaking mohajir from Karachi.

Respectfully submitted,
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#543 Posted by Behram1 on May 5, 2006 10:53:27 am
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#542 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 10:51:56 am
#541 Godot {``If you are short of cash to print those flyers, the Mohajirs of Chowk will be happy to chip-in to pay for them.
The question is, do you have the balls to do that or you are just talk and no action? ``}

Godot Sahib,
LOL. :)

Behram Rustumji Sohrabji SaRakdhonewlla, ``Sindhu Desh Kithay Ahay?`` HP, and Mahapunju Tahmed16 Doghlawalla have been babbling that Mohajirs are only approximately 15 million in number and constitute less than 10% of Pakistan`s population. These ``gentlemen`` better pray that India`s economy keeps getting stronger and communal harmony is maintained next door. What they don`t realize is that there are many millions of Urdu-speaking Muslims right across the border - many many more than all the Punjus, Sindhis, and Pathans in Pakistan put together. They might just flood into Karachi and piss them all off. Then the ``stranded`` Biharis in BD will be the least of their problems. :)
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#547 Posted by Behram1 on May 5, 2006 11:25:19 am
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#541 Posted by Godot on May 5, 2006 10:32:10 am

Behram

You seem to have problem with the Mohajirs in Karachi in general and “All Tuff” in particular. You are wasting your time at Chowk where a handful of people do not really matter, and those in power in Pakistan have no clue about the interacts at Chowk.

I suggest you printout on flyers your grievances you posted on this board verbatim, and flood Karachi with it. I’m sure it will catch the attention of “All Tuff” and his goondas, not to mention of the Federal Govt. currently run by a paan-chewing, pichkari-spitting bhayya. Don’t forget to have your full name, phone number, and your address on the flyers. If you are short of cash to print those flyers, the Mohajirs of Chowk will be happy to chip-in to pay for them.

The question is, do you have the balls to do that or you are just talk and no action?
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#540 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 9:04:39 am
#539, OK, Agha Behramji Rustumji Sohrabji SaRakdhonewalla,
Now you are really pissing me off. :) Just because some paan-chewing Mohajir dude, originally from Bareilly, swiped your cell phone and urinated on your shoes, after having passionate sex, while you were walking near Empress Market on Preedy Street, on your way to Zaibunissa Street (sorry Elphinstone St, or was it Victoria?), with your sugarcane handled umbrella to keep you all gora gora, you are all over Chowk with your racism, bigotry, and class-action lawsuits. Please get over it. I am sure he did not shoot that paan pichkari on your horn-rimmed glasses on purpose. Please come back to Karachi from Hooooston, or Awwstin, or Dullllaaaaaaaaas, or Sssan Antaaanio, or whereever you are - cussing at wetbacks as they pee in the Rio Grande on their way across the border.
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#538 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 8:35:38 am
#533 ahmadzai {``Yaarro perhay likhay loggo, Allah ka naam lo, ghussa thooko aur koi aur kaam kee baat karo. Kyon apna mazaq urwatay ho? ``}

Janaab Ahmadzai mohtaram,
Agar aap aur aap ke humumr, Janaab Mahapunju Doghlawalla Sahib, itni taassub ki baateN na shru kartay, to yeh din na dekhnay paRtay. Afsos ki baat yeh hey, ke jab aapko HinduoN, IssayoN, YahudioN, ya SikhoN se laRna hota he to hummari yaad farmaatey heN - jub mulk meN aman hota he, to aap log MohajiroN ka qatl-e-aam munaqid kartey heN. Jab koi wabaaaen ya zalzale aatey heN, to phir MohajiroN ke madadkhwa hotey heN. Jab sab kuch theek lag raha hota he to behr-e-Arab meN hum logoN ko Dibo ke rukhsat karney ki koshish shru kardetay heN. Sharam aani chahye aap ``Pisser-e-zameen`` logoN ko. Mazaq to aap ka uR raha he yahaaN par.
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#537 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 8:15:03 am
Saeen ``Mahajir Na Khappan`` HP:

Maan Karacchiia maan aahiyaan. Peshab khano kithay ahay? :)
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#536 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 5, 2006 8:12:09 am
Aasif #491 {``Salim:
Look closely, it is batli vala who has spewed the most bakvaas. He must have had a few too many of his batlees... ...(ps: i said goad not gored ! :) ``}

Aasif Bhai,
Nothing like knowledge and wit to refute the lies and generalizations of Shri Behram Rustumji Sohrabji SaRakdhonewalla. :) Thank you for stepping in and rectifying matters by restoring the sugarcanes to their proper resting place. Before being goaded and thankfully not gored, I was trying to highlight the plight and desperation of ``stranded`` Pakistani women in BD as they convert to Christianity to feed their families. I did not mean to start this pissing contest with Behramji Batliwalla, Mahapunju Tahmed Doghlawalla or Saeen ``Mohajir Na Khappan`` HP. My thanks to Godot Sahib, Raw_Dust, and Echo Bhai for contributing to the attempted enlightenment of Behram, HP, aquaris, and Tahmed16.

While on the topic of public urination, may I remind Behramji that we Muslims piss in mosques. So do the right wing Hindus, but they use the main building. Everywhere in the Muslim world, people use the wazoo facilities of mosques to relieve themselves without pissing off people like Behramji. In Turkey, there are so many mosques that there is no need to search for McDonald restaurants and their normally clean facilities. Can Mohajirs help it if downtown Karachi has always lacked a sufficient number of mosques?

Also, I do want to object to high buildings that attract large birds of prey. Apparently, a Belgian tourist was savagely attacked prematurely while getting a real suntan on top of a high-rise hotel in Karachi (or maybe it was Mumbai).
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#535 Posted by tahmed32 on May 5, 2006 4:34:52 am
ahmedzai #233 sangaii!! i too tried to cool down our friends in my post below, but was sadly ignored. :-(

Now all I want to know is: what the hell is a batli wala?? behram?? aasif??
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#534 Posted by jang on May 4, 2006 7:55:06 pm
behramji,

in india a parsee has a nice social net thanks to the parsee trust fund fed by our tatas and wadias. you can get stuff like nice homes in parsee colony or education assistance etc. do you have that in pakistan? if yes, as a pure zartrusti, do you get to dip in that? maybe if you had that you wont feel so lost. and if you feel lost inspite of that that is tough thing, and i feel really bad for you.

anyways, how are the dark ugly hindus girls these days? long time no mention?
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#533 Posted by Ahmadzai on May 4, 2006 7:51:08 pm
The interactions here are simply proving Pakistan`s military and Muslim Caliphs` / Sultans` / rulers` of the yore philosophy correct, i.e. keep commoners involved in wars against Christians (crusades), Hindus (Kashmir) and infidels (Afghanistan) so that they don`t turn against each other.

Yaarro perhay likhay loggo, Allah ka naam lo, ghussa thooko aur koi aur kaam kee baat karo. Kyon apna mazaq urwatay ho?

:-D
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#532 Posted by jang on May 4, 2006 7:49:53 pm
#522 by kaalchakra

mr blackwheel, i have lived in UP and among UPites almost all my life, and kasam se, i love the place and its people. they are so real. i am just telling what rest of the country thinks of it. i loved saharanpur, agra, ranikhet, kasauli, rishikesh, gonbindghat, bithoor, orai, unnau, lucknow, cawnpore kotwali, even moolganj-kanpur ;-)

i have had the pleasure and fortune of attending daroga-ki-nautanki, and listened to nauch-girls singing ``sayad mere sadi ka khayal`` as well as young shubha mudgal sing the most beautiful kajris there. UP (and bihar) absolutely rock. i have seen with my own eyes Sita Mayee adjust the stuffing in his bra while smoking bidis during Ramleela and sat thru some serious all-night bhajan sessions after some shiv-shambhu prashad.

so, no, i will never think low of UP

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#568 Posted by anil on May 5, 2006 3:08:20 pm
Re: # 532

Jang:

I was born and lived in Kanpur for first 11 years of my life. i had great and fond memories of Kanpur, even Mulganj of those days. I was shocked to see it a few years ago after about 25 years.

Anil
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#531 Posted by echoboom on May 4, 2006 7:35:07 pm
teshah:529

You`re welcome.

If I were you, I would accentuate the exhilirating, positive and true s, rather than the frivilous, corrupted and manufactured .

Thereis a reason the dubious ones were left there. How else could the corrupt ones be exposed. If in the age of instant-messaging & news-as-it-happens one gets spinned & doctored what to say of whatever was established as ``precedent``.

Thanks again, but I believe this all I can contribute for now.

Maybe later.

wassalaam!
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#530 Posted by Aasif on May 4, 2006 6:26:21 pm
behram:
i know that u r proud zarthusht and not a lowly brown parsi, god forbid. and yeah u speak exquisite english and have impeccable manners too. You have repeatedly referred to all mqm supporters and urdu speaking mohajirs in very unflattering terms the least i could do is refer to how the largesse of the british have been very kind to those you admire along with dog bathers of british. Whether the dispossessed pakistanis who were forced to migrate twice in a quarter of a century were the cause of the tensions or the feudal ahole and his so called populist antics to consolidate power (nationalization, urban vs rural divide, language issues, refusal to repatriate east pakistanis) and the preceding 15+ years of military intervention is anyones guess. There were educated ppl in what is now pakistan before partition but they belonged to 2 categories. Those educated in missionary schools and those who knew urdu as a second language. As they say lahore had a sizeable population who spoke urdu along with punjabi. The overwhelming majority as it was as it is now was uneducated. The percentage of illiteracy far higher than those of the immigrant who had a sizeable middle class and descendent of the erstwhile salariat. It is no wonder that urdu became the national language of pakistan....
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