Ahmer Muzammil April 25, 2006
#1 Posted by sanjay on April 25, 2006 5:10:48 am
I have a simple question: why is it that even after all this oppression we never hear of Muslim women whether they are living in Islamic countries or even in the west converting to Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism or any ‘ism’ for that matter?
You must be joking Boss that you dont know the answer of this simple question.
#2 Posted by mohar11 on April 25, 2006 5:14:11 am
what`s this - a trick question?... only if you have a death-wish will you try to convert from islam to anything else.....
#3 Posted by ballukhan on April 25, 2006 5:14:27 am
``why is it that even after all this oppression we never hear of Muslim women whether they are living in Islamic countries or even in the west converting to Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism or any ‘ism’ for that matter?``
You article is bogus because it is based upon this question whose simple answer is given in one line-
Answer- Because every muslim women faces the deterrence in the form of Death penalty for Apostasy from every zealous muslim !!!
You article is bogus because it is based upon this question whose simple answer is given in one line-
Answer- Because every muslim women faces the deterrence in the form of Death penalty for Apostasy from every zealous muslim !!!
#4 Posted by sanjay on April 25, 2006 5:21:09 am
Dear Author,
Hope you have got the answer at #2 and #3 below for your simple question.
Hope you have got the answer at #2 and #3 below for your simple question.
#5 Posted by pmishra2 on April 25, 2006 5:25:16 am
WOw, this article really takes the cake. You really want to know: because any converts would be ostracized, abused and probably murdered.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/000356.php
Egypt: Christian who married Muslim convert captured trying to flee
More of the celebrated Islamic tolerance for other religions comes from Egypt: ``A Coptic Christian secretly married to a woman convert from Islam was arrested for the second time last week while trying to leave Egypt for Canada.`` This from Compass Direct.
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14689.htm
BRITISH CONVERTS FROM ISLAM: CHRISTIAN LEADERS MUST SPEAK OUT
Some 3,000 Christians in the UK are in danger because they have chosen to convert from Islam. Some are being actively harassed and persecuted, but many church leaders seem more interested in defending their attackers than in standing up for the rights of the converts.
Nissar Hussain, a Christian from Bradford, has suffered three years of harassment, amounting effectively to persecution, from the local Muslims in his neighbourhood. His car has been torched and rammed, bricks have been thrown through his window on many occasions, there have been threats to burn the house down, and much else besides. Mr Hussain and his wife were originally Muslims, and this is the reason for the treatment they are getting.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/000356.php
Egypt: Christian who married Muslim convert captured trying to flee
More of the celebrated Islamic tolerance for other religions comes from Egypt: ``A Coptic Christian secretly married to a woman convert from Islam was arrested for the second time last week while trying to leave Egypt for Canada.`` This from Compass Direct.
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14689.htm
BRITISH CONVERTS FROM ISLAM: CHRISTIAN LEADERS MUST SPEAK OUT
Some 3,000 Christians in the UK are in danger because they have chosen to convert from Islam. Some are being actively harassed and persecuted, but many church leaders seem more interested in defending their attackers than in standing up for the rights of the converts.
Nissar Hussain, a Christian from Bradford, has suffered three years of harassment, amounting effectively to persecution, from the local Muslims in his neighbourhood. His car has been torched and rammed, bricks have been thrown through his window on many occasions, there have been threats to burn the house down, and much else besides. Mr Hussain and his wife were originally Muslims, and this is the reason for the treatment they are getting.
#6 Posted by jawahara on April 25, 2006 5:45:10 am
Apart from the other reasons, perhaps they aren`t converting because they don`t want to trade one patriarchial religion for another. Jeeze! You`re asking this question around the time when someone was condemned to die for converting to Christianity. The price of apostasy is death. Which Muslim woman unless she lives in a vacuum (with no over-zealous parents and brothers and other community members) is going to convert?
I am no fan of Christianity or any religion for that matter but few other religions say someone should die (or if they convert they must be insane) for making this basic choice. Let`s get real.
I am no fan of Christianity or any religion for that matter but few other religions say someone should die (or if they convert they must be insane) for making this basic choice. Let`s get real.
#7 Posted by sanjay on April 25, 2006 5:46:54 am
#8 Posted by mohar11 on April 25, 2006 5:50:41 am
[....(the word used should be reverting because we as Muslims believe that every human being is born in a state of submission to God, therefore revert instead of convert is a more appropriate term....]
so everybody is born a muslim by default - all they have to do is ``revert`` back to the the true faith....
++++
are you pakis running some kind m0r0n factory in karachi or somewhere - you guys produce so many blathering idiots at alarming regularity......I mean every other day - there is a new paki blabbering absolute nonsense about islam this, islam that....
Unbelievable.....
so everybody is born a muslim by default - all they have to do is ``revert`` back to the the true faith....
++++
are you pakis running some kind m0r0n factory in karachi or somewhere - you guys produce so many blathering idiots at alarming regularity......I mean every other day - there is a new paki blabbering absolute nonsense about islam this, islam that....
Unbelievable.....
#9 Posted by Raw_Dust on April 25, 2006 6:33:59 am
writer, welcome to the gallows.
mohar11:
are you pakis running some kind m0r0n factory in karachi or somewhere ``:
yea.. it is at Korangi Industrial Area.
``I mean every other day - there is a new paki blabbering absolute nonsense about islam this, islam that``
i see a plot for ``Muslim American Psycho`` where christian bale character gives himself to submission and starts doing ``my facial-hair cut is better than yours`` with other muslim yuppies in the local mosque.
mohar11:
are you pakis running some kind m0r0n factory in karachi or somewhere ``:
yea.. it is at Korangi Industrial Area.
``I mean every other day - there is a new paki blabbering absolute nonsense about islam this, islam that``
i see a plot for ``Muslim American Psycho`` where christian bale character gives himself to submission and starts doing ``my facial-hair cut is better than yours`` with other muslim yuppies in the local mosque.
#10 Posted by Urstruly on April 25, 2006 6:37:17 am
I have been attending this mosque for over six years now. I have seen hundereds of people coming to mosque and reverting back to Islam on regular basis. Normally there is at least one reversion every week and sometimes more. But over the years I have seen the trend change. The change is in the mix of people who revert. Prior to 9/11 it was usually young black males who were predominently among those wo reverted. I hardly saw a black woman ever revert. Right after 9/11 the trend changed and a healthy mix of white males add up to the blacks. That surprised me a lot since after 9/11 Muslims were a persecuted minority and hated by everyone. But in the past two and half years or so this trend further changed when now the overwhelming majority of reversions are those of white females. This is even more surprising when Western propaganda machinery in its full force and fury is trying to prove that Muslim woman is the lowliest creature on this planet.
Our Imam Sahib is a very mild mannered Arab. He is the humblest person I have ever seen. He is the main driving force behind most of reversions. I find it strange too, because he is not very fluent in English and he speaks in a very strange accent that is neither Arab nor from anywhere else I have ever heard of. I think he has invented his own accent. Same thing goes with his Arabic accent which is even stranger. He is not an orator at all but he speaks in very simple terms and softly but everything he says just gets absorbed into his audience. This is a strange phenomenon for me too. I guess it is not the oratory power that counts but it is sincerity. For example last year when hurricane Caterina hit, most of the congregation was not willing to do anything for the people whom they perceived as hating them so much. But Imam Sahib is one heck of a guy. He just gave us a five minute speach on `the victims are human beings first and then anything else` and with in a week we were sending containers of medical supplies, food, diapers, and blankets to Lousinana. On the other hand when earthquake hit Pakistan he persuaded congregation to raise an equivalent of 1 crore rupees in the first 3 or four days.
But this soft spoken man when talks about the on going persecution of Muslims he seems to reflect a persona that has nerves of steels. When a weeping mother requests him to ask congregation for a prayer for her son who just ``disappeared`` he always advices his congregation to do the right thing, obey the law, and have faith in Allah.
#11 Posted by Raw_Dust on April 25, 2006 6:43:28 am
But Urstruly, how do you explain the prediction of Mohammad saying that as the end of the world nears, number of faithfuls would decrease until the dynamic duo of mehdi and jesus would show up to re-revert everyone back and ``manage`` those who wont?
By your observation it seems the rate of reversion is increasing not decreasing which is kind of the opposite. interesting.
By your observation it seems the rate of reversion is increasing not decreasing which is kind of the opposite. interesting.
#12 Posted by Urstruly on April 25, 2006 7:00:44 am
Raw
Au contraire the Prophecy in fact says that when that time comes Muslims will be great in numbers, however, they will become the lowliest of people in this world.
It is my own assumption and I might be wrong that the promised Mesiah (pbuh) cannot do anything by himself unless he leads a large number of righteous people in the struggle against oppression. After all the affairs of world obey the natural laws of physics and common sense. Let me explain it by an example. Consider Pakistan, which is overwhelmingly a Muslim dominated state but politically the Muslims in Pakistan itself have zero political clout. Every individual in this country is either a victim of a vicious circle of oppression by corruption, crime, and state terror or he himself is a part of this oppressive machinery;(It does not matter whether he dons a beard or not. ). This despite the fact that overwhelming majority of Pakistani Muslims is righteous, peaceful, and law abiding. But these people, who are righteous have no one to lead them. They have become a flock without a shepered. The situation has gotten so worst that state machinery of terror has started assassinating whoever was left in a leacership position. The evidence of the recent assasinations of Muslim leaders in Nishtar Park and on going assassination of 150+ ulemas in the last 5-6 years alone. A similar situation exists in every other Muslim country. I believe that the words of the Prophecy are absolutely true given the situation.
Au contraire the Prophecy in fact says that when that time comes Muslims will be great in numbers, however, they will become the lowliest of people in this world.
It is my own assumption and I might be wrong that the promised Mesiah (pbuh) cannot do anything by himself unless he leads a large number of righteous people in the struggle against oppression. After all the affairs of world obey the natural laws of physics and common sense. Let me explain it by an example. Consider Pakistan, which is overwhelmingly a Muslim dominated state but politically the Muslims in Pakistan itself have zero political clout. Every individual in this country is either a victim of a vicious circle of oppression by corruption, crime, and state terror or he himself is a part of this oppressive machinery;(It does not matter whether he dons a beard or not. ). This despite the fact that overwhelming majority of Pakistani Muslims is righteous, peaceful, and law abiding. But these people, who are righteous have no one to lead them. They have become a flock without a shepered. The situation has gotten so worst that state machinery of terror has started assassinating whoever was left in a leacership position. The evidence of the recent assasinations of Muslim leaders in Nishtar Park and on going assassination of 150+ ulemas in the last 5-6 years alone. A similar situation exists in every other Muslim country. I believe that the words of the Prophecy are absolutely true given the situation.
#13 Posted by ballukhan on April 25, 2006 7:09:52 am
For someone who refuses to understand women`s plight let us accept the fact that despite all those sugar coated statements the actual policing starts at their home itself and the close relatives are the biggest threat to the women trying to follow her conscience.......
The Times April 14, 2006
Teenager killed his sister for living a Western life
From Roger Boyes in Berlin
AYHAN SURUCU was so angry when his sister started to wear make-up and date German men that he put a gun to her head at a bus stop and killed her.
The 18-year-old Turk fired three bullets into her brain and calmly walked away.
Boys at a nearby school, attended mainly by the children of immigrant Muslim families, cheered and applauded when news of the murder reached them.
The so-called “honour killing” of Hatun Surucu, 23, last year shocked Germany and sparked intense debate about a conservative Muslim immigrant community at odds with a secular society.
That anger was rekindled yesterday when Surucu, a minor when the murder took place, was sentenced to nine years and three months by a Berlin court, considered lenient by many Germans.
His brothers, Alpaslan, 25, and Mutlu, 26, were acquitted because of lack of evidence, at which friends and family in the courtroom cheered. The prosecution had sought life sentences for their part in the murder of their sister.
Passing judgment, Michael Degrif said: “It is inconceivable that someone can be killed for living a Western lifestyle.”
Although she was brought up in Germany, Hatun was forced into a marriage with her Turkish cousin in east Anatolia. The marriage broke up and she returned to Berlin with her five-year-old child to live the life of a young German woman: going to discos, renting a small apartment, taking lovers and starting an apprenticeship as an electrician. She abandoned the traditional headscarf and wore fashionable jeans. Her three brothers were upset, as was her father.
The state prosecutor had demanded that all three brothers be convicted. Ayhan, the youngest, had confessed to pulling the trigger but according to the prosecutor the two others had stood guard and obtained the murder weapon. They denied any involvement.
The evidence of a crown witness, a Turkish girl who wore a bullet-proof vest when she stood in the witness stand, was deemed yesterday to be too flimsy for a conviction. Only Ayhan, 19, was jailed after admitting that he wanted to “wipe the stain from our family”.
There are 40 “honour killings” a year in Germany and most of them result from the failure of an arranged marriage, which are illegal in the country.
#14 Posted by ballukhan on April 25, 2006 7:16:39 am
I would say that it is time for pay back- how about some women wiping off the `stain` from their family by killing these men who stray regularly..........
#15 Posted by Charlie on April 25, 2006 7:21:35 am
Q: Why aren’t Muslim Women Converting to Christianity?
A: One religion or other, it is the same garbage. So many muslim women in west normally stop practising the religion instead of changing it and creating a controversy by announcing it publically.
Also, muslim women just like muslim men try to adopt a lifestyle that fulfills their needs but doesn`t take them much away from traditional islamic framework. So, they will date, have extra-marital sex, go to disocs and nightclubs etc. But they will not drink and they will prefer eating halal. And when it will come to their interaction with their community members, they will behave exactly the same way as they are expected to do as good muslim women. After all, they have to live with their own people also...
A: One religion or other, it is the same garbage. So many muslim women in west normally stop practising the religion instead of changing it and creating a controversy by announcing it publically.
Also, muslim women just like muslim men try to adopt a lifestyle that fulfills their needs but doesn`t take them much away from traditional islamic framework. So, they will date, have extra-marital sex, go to disocs and nightclubs etc. But they will not drink and they will prefer eating halal. And when it will come to their interaction with their community members, they will behave exactly the same way as they are expected to do as good muslim women. After all, they have to live with their own people also...
#16 Posted by Raw_Dust on April 25, 2006 7:25:24 am
Urstruly:
okay. thanks for that explaination. With the repeated mentions of increase of vice(bayhayayi), i must have misread it as a total loss of faith among muslims. So, as i understand, Jesus will come to revitalize the institution of Caliphate and to rally the muslim masses. ok.
Nishter Park Tragedy:
you think it was orchestrated by Bush proxies in Pakistan, i.e., Pakistan Army? Is that your impression or you got this info from somewhere (i.e., hearsay, news reports, eyewitness accounts etc.)?
okay. thanks for that explaination. With the repeated mentions of increase of vice(bayhayayi), i must have misread it as a total loss of faith among muslims. So, as i understand, Jesus will come to revitalize the institution of Caliphate and to rally the muslim masses. ok.
Nishter Park Tragedy:
you think it was orchestrated by Bush proxies in Pakistan, i.e., Pakistan Army? Is that your impression or you got this info from somewhere (i.e., hearsay, news reports, eyewitness accounts etc.)?
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