Why Aren’t Muslim Women Converting to Christianity?

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atif mian,

.... your beautiful post brought a tear to my eye and a smile to my lips ........ i agree, life on earth would be a lot more peaceful and simpler if the pesky muslims would just go away ...... but like pesky mosquitoes and gnats they continue to breed in vast numbers and continue to make life miserable for other peace loving inhabitants of this planet ......... it seems that we will have to put up with them until evolution runs it course and the bedouin gene mutates to a more benign form ...........

............. but what do we do in the mean time ?...... since muslim men are part of the bearded establishment, or they don`t have the necessary equipment to stand up to the bearded establishment, we have to rely on our women to reform this horrible institution from within ...... that means we have to rely on people like ms ayaan, asra nomani, irshad manji, dr amina wadud, dr wafa sultan, and our own zehraj who wants to promote a kinder and gentler islam where men express their love in the form of ``slow and smooth dancing or the invigorating salsa`` instead of beating their women (gently) with a stick as prescribed in the book ............

..... happy days are ahead, so make sure you sign up for tango and salsa classes .... ole !

More about #94 concerning ``stranded`` Pakistani Muslim girls resorting to prostitution and conversion to Christianity, just to survive.

Mohajirs,
These ``stranded Biharis`` are not welcome in Pakistan by the Pakistani Punjabis for one reason. They will add to the number of Mohajirs, yes people like us. The Pakistani Punjabis do not hate these Biharis - they just despise Mohajirs and don`t want to repatriate these Pakistanis at any cost, even if they themselves look racist, selfish, unreliable, cruel, and shameless.

Re: # 94

I think you should be the last person to whine about the plight of ``stranded`` whales, since MQM has been in power for the past so many years; they also have the good ears of the dictator while he regularly assigns them the chores here and there like assassinations of political opponents and stuff. Unfortunately, your personal information about this ``free willy`` project of yours remains mired with the cheap propaganda. Please do not forget that it was Punjab Assembly during Nawaz Sharif`s first time that passed the resolution to move the stranded Pakistanis back. It was Punjabi politicians who got approval from Saudi Arabia to provide funding for their move from the concentration camps in Bangladesh. It was Punjab Assembly that proposed and allocated land near Bahawalpur for their initial settlement. But it was people from other provinces who objected to this since you people of MQM have ethnically cleansed almost every other ethnicity from urban sindh. Had you had established good relationships with your neighbors and did not treat them like red indians they would have welcomed these stranded refugees with less hostility. I think the terrorist sitting in London can still do a lot about this ``free willy`` project for a change.

hamidm2 sahib #96, {``happy days are ahead, so make sure you sign up for tango and salsa classes .... ole !``}

Hamidm Sahib,
LOL - that was indeed hilarious. One question, sir. If I really want to enjoy slow dancing and tango, cha-cha-cha, merengue, bolero, and salsa and that other dance, the cosa nostra :), (or was it the Bossa Nova?), why would I want to perform them with a abayya-clad hijabi dance partner?

#77 by echoboom on April 25, 2006 11:38pm PT
>>>>You may continue to let your hindu-head roll and toss and turn in your sleepless nights. That suits you more.
amass money, count it., & stay sleepless<<<<

Did you leave your rotten Pakistani ideology text books back home? Or do you
read them every day before coming to work?

Hindus amass money, and are sleeples and muslims remain beggars and have good sleep??? Eating from the beggary thrown by the white and yellow masters??
What`s your point?

#93 by atif2

Yes. All that. And pink elephants will fly, and pigs will bray like donkeys. And people like you will fly the flag high with the flagpole stuck up their behinds.

Re: # 99

salim mian,

....... on a more serious note - this dancing thing seems to be catching on with the sisters, so we cannot take it too lightly ........ just yesterday, as we sat on the couch watching american idol, mrs hamidm turns to me and, out of the blue, says `` i think we should take dancing lessons``....... i looked at her to see if she had mistakenly taken a sip out of my gin laced tonic instead of her sprite, but she was dead serious ....... ``are you serious?`` i asked as i shifted my eyes from paula`s intriguing cleavage .......... ``why not, it would be fun?``......... ``you must be kidding ?``, i said as i wondered whether early menopause was setting in or if she was hanging out with the wrong crowd of infidel women ..........

........ for a very brief moment a frightening apparition flashed before my eyes - i saw myslef tangoing with the mrs, dressed in a tight black tuxedo clenching a red rose between my teeth ...... i guess she must had the same horrible vision, because she said, ``just forget it, it will probably give you another hernia``................ now, even though that was an obvious challenge to my manhood, i thought discretion was the better part of valor and kept quite ....... it was a close call .........

....... we made up by voting for chris daughtry, paris and elliott even though i really wanted to vote for kelly - everyone wants to vote for her, she is cuter than a bug`s ear .............. i hope this foolishness is behind us, but you just don`t know with women - they are always coming up with cockamamie ideas ........ maybe god knew what he was doing when he instructed us to discipline them (gently) if they get out of line ............

Urstruly #98, {``I think you should be the last person to whine about the plight of ``stranded`` whales, ...But it was people from other provinces who objected to this since you people of MQM have ethnically cleansed almost every other ethnicity from urban sindh. Had you had established good relationships with your neighbors and did not treat them like red indians they would have welcomed these stranded refugees with less hostility.``}

Maulana Urstruly Sahib,
I think that you are mistaking these poor ``stranded Bihari girls`` for familiar Pakistani Punjabi women when you erroneously used the term ``stranded whales.`` The fact that most of them are starving, I doubt it if any one of them qualifies for your insulting reference. So much for brotherly ``Muslim`` feelings.

Now, your excuses for not bringing the ``stranded`` Pakis back home and your pitiful defense of Pakistani Punjabi ``sincerity and righteousness`` are reminiscent of Pontius Pilate - no one will ever accuse you of converting to Christianity.

The most important disclosure from your post is that when you unwrap all the masquerading clothing, you mullahs are basically bigoted, racist, and prone to provincialism, just like your more secular Pakistani Punjabis. Now I know that Islam is truly in danger.

#93 by atif2 on April 26, 2006 7:01am PT


After reading what pakis have posted over the past few years, I am beginning to wonder how peaceful, bountiful and colorful this world would be if only Kashmir became part of Pakistan. There will be no wars. Instead of gunfire, the streets of Detroit, Rio and Baghdad will cackle with children`s laughter. Adults will develop a habit of breaking into impromptu dances in the streets. Cities will be decked with flowers of all kind, with butterflies fluttering around. No one will go to bed hungry or without having his/her fair share of sex - a taboo in Islam. Discrimination against minorities will cease to exist. Unemployment will dip to zero and the companies will add chauffer service as part of job offer. Department of Human Services will replace Department of Homeland Security. Strippers will no longer get raped. Mothers will no longer have to discipline their children by scaring them that a sunni wahhabi jihadi or a shiite radical will kidnap them if they did not do their homework. And the poets will spread out in the vast blue and green canvass of this earth to write such poetry that would make even the most hardened heart leap into trance.

All that is possible, if only Kashmir became part of Pakistan.

#101, zeemax,

Bhai,
You are in great form after your return. Your comment was both funny and very much on target. I think that you exposed the nonsense in his Al-Kayda rhetoric.

hamidm2 {``on a more serious note - this dancing thing seems to be catching on with the sisters, so we cannot take it too lightly ........ just yesterday, as we sat on the couch watching american idol, mrs hamidm turns to me and, out of the blue, says `` i think we should take dancing lessons``....``}

Hamidm Sahib,
Sir, you should have encouraged such behavior, perhaps even with a gentle tap on the shoulder. Speaking of TV, after watching a couple of episodes of ``Big Love`` on HBO during my last visit to the States, I am inclined to convert to LDS - no not the chemical of your youth, but to the SLC, UT type of addiction - Mormonism. :) Now, if we can only convince the mominas that four should never be the limit - we should not allow us to be limited by the One Book.

#100 by bharath on April 26, 2006 8:24am PT
What`s your point?

---

Thanks for requesting for an encore:

it said:

Jaggo Pakistan is good if uttered by a Pakistani or Indian muslim!

elaboration:

jaggo Pakistan advice is good & appropriate if it is coming from a pakistani or Indian muslim or even from a hamidm2. Or, even if it comes from any white, yellow, or black muslim or non-muslim ( thanks for the tip--ribbing & rubbing is getting better)

But from a hindu?--with a ganesh memory! don`t you ever laugh?

P.S: in simple language: it is not a hindu`s station to be condescending towards muslims. kapish?

Re: # 107
and thus perform some servant duties such as bombing Waziristan
seek beggar money from the white man !!! And violently protest the same
whiteman who feeds you, clothes you and gives u toys.

Got the point.

Answer: According to some `ulema` the punishment for leaving Islam is death. Yet it is these very same `Ulema` who tell us that the Prophet (PBUH) said `There is no compulsion in Islam`.

I am not sure but I think Pakistani law forbids you to convert if you are Muslim to any other religion. If you marry a non-Muslim it is the non-Muslim partner who has to convert.

What really stood out in this article for me, wasn`t all this `Islam is superior` kind of stuff, as that`s no longer new, but the author`s `I live in the west, and know true Islam, you Pakistanis know shit and act like Indians, therefore i am a better Muslim than you jahil half Hindu half Muslim unable to pronounce Arabic properly pindos` Kind of attitude. Where due to the authors own insecurities and self worth issues, he tries to become superior to the countrymen of his origin by being what is perceived to be a `better Muslim` and according to this logic, a better Pakistani than the people who actually live there, even though the author himslef doesn`t reside there, and is completely unaware of the realities of that land and its people. He judges all Pakistanis by his (unrealistic) standards (which are divine of course!!!) and knowing most of the country doesn`t meet them he then quite smugly proceeds to look down at them.

For the sake of Pakistan, I thank God that people like this author reside outside of Pakistan. If he is in Pakistan then he must be living in a very cocooned and distanced from the majority community, in which case he must be filthy rich to be able to afford to do that, and therefore even more distanced from the normal populace.

How does the author purport to be the `voice of the majority` Has he held a consensus? Did this claim come with some sort of an election victory? Which majority is he talking about, The Pakistani majority, the Muslim majority (in the country where he resides), or the Overseas Pakistani Muslim majority?

Through which art is a mental illness being shoved down your throat? And which mental illness?

Pakistani people are constantly under attack from our neighbours in the east for not being Indic enough, and from our western neighbours (and overseas Pakistanis) for not being Muslim enough. Having become accustomed to letting such abuse pass us by, it is tempting to see this article as from another ‘holier than thou’ expatriate/child of expatriate, telling us how Un-Islamic we are (which it is) and just let this pass too. However, I feel that this article warrants some sort of a reply, if only for the fact that the author is Pakistani (at least in origin).

As Pakistan is a majority Muslim country, people there are brought up with Islam, it is part of the backdrop to everything, they do not need to think about it, it is just there, pretty much the way Christianity is in the west and Hinduism in Nepal. Therefore people in Pakistan don’t feel the need to wear their religion on their sleeves, as Islam is a given.

Now within this, there are many hues and shades of Islam. For the most part they co-exist quite peacefully. And within every hue and shade there are various levels of practice and interpretation. Some people hardly practice, some people do, some people don’t fast, some do etc. Most are quite happy and content with their Islamiat, and their level of adherence to it. They are secure in themselves, and with who and what they are, they don’t feel the need to show their affiliation with Islam at every turn, as for the most part, the people they will encounter will also be some sort of Muslim.

Regards your views on culture, Islam came to the land that is now Pakistan to a very musical and spiritual people who have already had millennia of sophisticatedly and naturally connecting with the divine spirit. Through the ages the indigenous people (us) discovered that indeed, every aspect of a person’s life can be used to form a continual connection with the divine inside and the divine omni present. Through music, song, dance, breathe, exercise, and stillness to the mundane everyday tasks of work and daily routine, each one connecting you to the One worthy of connection.

The culture, language, environment, economy, and everything else were very different from that of the Prophet (PBUH) when Islam was revealed to Him. The people of this country for whatever reason accepted Islam, and decided to follow that faith, as in its purest form it is not much different from the purest form of the faith at that time (Sanata Dharma).

The people amalgamated the two philosophies where possible, to bring about a very South Asian version of Islam, something that is natural to them, as the people of this part of the world are much less naturally austere (for want of a better word) from the people of the land where Islam was revealed. This has happened not only in Pakistan, but in every other part of the world where Islam is now dominant, and you will see it has already started in Europe and the US, where the people there are coming into their Islam, so to say, with an Islam that works for them. This is the natural process and progress of a philosophy and if it’s worth its weight this is how it survives. The something about it as you say or the kashish as I would say, is what remains and every culture and country in the world keeps it alive in their own way and the way they know how.

Think about it, if an Eskimo was to accept this faith, it would be impossible for him to practice the faith identical to the followers in say Kuwait. Islam is much bigger than people’s pettiness and practices, it is also much more flexible than the current rigidity of the land from where it originally came.

Just as poetry can be used to connect to the divine (The Koran!) so it can also be used to describe every other emotion a human being experiences. And this is the same for every other way of reaching the divine i.e. dancing, singing, music, breathe, etc. Hence EVERY country EVEN Saudi Arabia has some sort of musical and dance tradition, these are often the cultural shows that you see on TV.

Where you see dancing on Eid disrespectful, others may see it as an expression of their joy on the occasion. If it is something you do not like, then do not partake in it. The same can be said about fashion shows, if the people concerned are not complaining then why are you? A fashion show is a very important way to display the cloth and fabrics made in our country, they help our ailing industries, who in turn employ millions of people (mainly poor). You have no idea of what is in that person’s heart, their intention, their wishes, their desires, their majboorian, etc. The fact is, you cannot judge, you don’t have the Theka or contract for entry into heaven.

May Allah bless you with tolerance not only for non-Muslims but for the billions of Muslims who exist on this earth that don’t share all your views. May Allah keep Pakistan from the many like you. Ameen!

Re: # 103

Typical

It is you who accused Punjabis first for doing nothing thus being provincial; and now when you cannot contest the facts on the ground that the Punjabis have done more than anyone else for stranded Pakistanis, even more than bleeding heart Mohajirs, you started dragging my religion and religious leadres into the discussion, who have nothing to do with the topic at hand. My reference to stranded Pakistanis was not derogatory towards them but it was a derogatory title to your crusades which is equivalent of the ``save the whale`` crusades where no one does nothing to save whales except whining.

Please explain to me why MQM government in sindh is not doing anything and havn`t done anything to bring the Pakistanis back in the past 5 years? Please explain how and when Punjabis have balked any such effort in case it was ever taken by MQM; the effort that probably only angels know about.

The fact of the matter is that you people are a hateful, shamelss, and thankless people whose hands are red with the blood of thousands of Punjabis, Pakhtoons, Sindhis, Baluchis, and even your own in the past two decades. You have a bad habbit of backstabbing your own benefactors. Well for a minute I can accept that Punjabis may have done something wrong with you but what had sindhis ever done to you. You destryed their livelyhood, you destroyed their language, and you made them strangers in their own land. And most of all if Punjabis are so bad then please explain why your terrorist outfit has become more loyal than the king testicle of Punjabi fauj. The fact of the matter is that you were a product of military occupation of Pakistan and you only thrive while there is dictatorship in the country. Zia gave birth to you and this dicatator gave you the power. What happened to you when there was democracy in the country in NS and BB era is known to everyone.