Iran, Geopolitics and the Bomb

Correction: Read ``#2 in Al-Qaeda`` as ``#3 in Al-Qaeda``

#110 by Naqshbandi on January 25, 2006 11:29am PT


no arjun, some pakistanis


some, but apparently not enough..

in any case, what YOU think doesn`t matter..The paki military applies ``might is right`` to Pakistan, having failed to apply it on India wrt Indian Kashmir..

The Paki military is a perfect example of might is right and a majority of pakis not being able to do anything about it...they get to decide who gets prosecuted for the bangladesh war..

reality is right..

#103, here is info on the world social forum for this year

http://www.forumsocialmundial.org.br/noticias_01.php?cd_news=1548&cd_language=2

Pakistan is part of the venue as well.

Ref: #115 by masadi on January 25, 2006 12:06pm PT

Thanks for the site info.

MNC comedians are meeting in Davos, Switzerland under the banner of World Economic Forum, wheras the rest of the world will meet at {Americas venue will take place in Caracas, Venezuela, from January 24th to 29th 2006}

I wonder if India is being represented with the people of the world, or as usual are they on the wrong side of the equation.

Where would India, the biggest schmoozer of the MNC`s, be?

Any guess?

Ref: #111 by masadi on January 25, 2006 11:39am PT

{I will not waste much more time living in this land of hypocrisy.} Now, now, masadi, you are just going too far. We need you to kick ass of all these Indian MNC lovers.

{Inshallah I`m returning to the real world soon.} Where would that might be? Not to the world here after, I hope.

{The plastic world where life is non existant and where people live vicariously through the movie world, when they are not playing out their roles as cheerful morons in the corporate world, is no heaven to me.} Corporate capitalism has destroyed the soul of humanity and you are correct. However, it is not the pure mom and pop capitalism. And that is where you could make a distinction. Be free, be independent, and kick corporate managers to oblivion. Now wouldn`t that be wonderful? Even George Soros, the great capitalist himself, is against this coporate capitalism.

{I detest it. I totally hate it, and do not wish the evil of staying in the West upon me.} West is not the only place where corporatism flourishes. If anywhere, this evil of corporatism can be stopped, it is going to be in America. Look at all those people getting ready and voicing their opinion against Walmart with wakeupwalmart.com.

People all across the land of the brave and of the free can only be saved by the people from the land of the pure. And that is our calling. Don`t lose hope. Just join in the struggle. First we have to get rid of the MNC @ss sucking Indians on this site, with their cut & paste technology. This is going to be a huge effort and people like you can continue educating those who are insecure with their thoughts of independence and freedom.

These bone head dead man walking stooges of the MNC`s must be saved, masadi. And you know that.

#117 by behram1 on January 25, 2006 1:41pm PT


First we have to get rid of the MNC @ss sucking Indians


MNCs like Microsoft that are investing billions of $$ in India and have research centers there..

Funny....you`ve got an expo in Pakiland right now that`s begging IT MNCs to come to pakiland so pakis can suck their ass...that the MNCs aren`t coming to Pakiland and are all going to India is a different issue..

behram1 #116

`` Thanks for the site info.

MNC comedians are meeting in Davos, Switzerland under the banner of World Economic Forum, wheras the rest of the world will meet at {Americas venue will take place in Caracas, Venezuela, from January 24th to 29th 2006}

I wonder if India is being represented with the people of the world, or as usual are they on the wrong side of the equation.

Where would India, the biggest schmoozer of the MNC`s, be?

Any guess? ``

If you are opposed to MNCs you should start cleaning your house. How about tossing out Shaukat Aziz ex-VP of Citicorp private banking ? I hope you realize he is money man for all the developing world elites who deposit their money in Citibank.

Preach what you practice

#98 masadi:

I had asked for your opinion on certain issues, it didn`t matter whether the post was ``outstanding``. lets us focus on the issues.

I still ask you:

if 100000 new jobs are created per year for indians, is it bad for the other 800 million in poverty?

``That said, yes if it integrates itself into the global economic system at the speed that it is and does not undertake socialistic programs to reduce poverty, it will face disaster. The example of Russia as a capitalistic experiment is in front of you, you do not have to wait 20 to 30 years to see the results. ``

once again, by creating jobs helps reducing poverty. don`t you agree? what other methods of reducing poverty do you mean when you say ``socialistic programs``?

Russia is a bad example of ``capitalism``, do you really think russia has become capitalist overnight. It will take atleast one generation to clean the mess left behind by communism. India which had socialism for 40 years itself is not capitalist by itself, forget about russia.
The kind of liberalisation seen in russia post-soviet was handing over state companies to a selected few loyal commies. Mikhail Khodorkovsky`s episode shows that Kremlin`s influence on russian society.

i do believe in having provisions whereby the people left behind are taken care of, given impetus to compete, develop skills. Have security for the vunerable. but where will the gov. get money to run such programs if no wealth is created in the society? you are talking about noble intentions but with no plans to back it.

``MNCs do not and have not transferred technology and skills to the locals, while protectionism to help the infant industries grow does ``teach a person to fish``. ``

A good example of our protectionism is the ambassador car. By protecting indian industries for 40 years, the gov. helped create sub-standard industries. lack of efficiency, low productivity were the hallmarks of indian industry. with no competition, indian companies never innovated, created any new technology.
how told you that MNC`s have not transferred technology or indians have not developed new skills??? GE india itself has filed numerous patents.

globalization is not a one way street. indian companies are also going abroad to compete. india pharma companies have themselves filed numerous ANDA applications with U.S. FDA. Ranbaxy, Reddys are selling/competing in u.s.
IT companies are leveraging the cost factor to their advantage.

enough of hiding behind a cocoon, we are far better running in the race rather than walk with strechers.

with the fish statement i meant, rather than living on doles ``fish`` its better to get skills (by education or job) ``learning to fish`` doesn`t matter even if you learn in a MNC.

also, the GE`s, IBM`s, MS`s, Intel`s are no walmart, they have created a job market for these skilled people in india they havn`t snatched them from a ``high-paying government`` job.

#120 correction:

``enough of hiding behind a cocoon, we are far better running in the race rather than walk with strechers. ``

should read

....... walk with the help of crutches.

Enjoy reading:

Got interesting responses on issues of the MNC`s.

MNC`s are (may be) a notch better than the socialist regimes. Both systems have destroyed humanity. Both systems are evil to the well being of a capitalist system. MNC`s true owners are the share holders who are not evil. However, the MNC`s managers or their execuitves are the evil doers, not as individuals, but as a part of a process.

Now responses to some specific comments:

{if 100000 new jobs are created per year for indians, is it bad for the other 800 million in poverty?} This is what is actually promoted. But look deeper and you will find that MNC`s have robbed actual tax base of your economy.

For example, for something made in a foreign country, the MNC hardly pays any US taxes, because the company says that the product is made in a foreign country. They get tax freedom in the foreign country as well, because that is the major incentive given to the MNC to come and promote jobs.

Also, the MNC brings in highly paid consultants to a foreign country. And where does their taxes go (nowhere) and benefits come from (from the local economy)? There is no economies of scale for the CEO of the MNC. When Ford brought Nasser from Australia, he was paid highly and was also paid when leaving. And Nasser was the one who screwed up Ford, and who is paying for with job cuts. You guessed it, the workers who had absolutely no part in the decison making process.

{once again, by creating jobs helps reducing poverty. don`t you agree?} Yes, agreed partially. However, replacing an evil with another set of evil does not make any sense.

{ what other methods of reducing poverty do you mean when you say ``socialistic programs``? } Get freedom for enterprising individuals. Pakistan loses out because of its political structure and not because of its enterprising people. India lost out in the early days because of its socialistic politics and not because of its enterprising individuals. Governments should leave individuals free to develop its economy. However, it should protect their country from the invasion of MNC`s. There is no quick fix for economic well being of a country. You can not marry your country into wealth.

Look at South Korea. Samsung is home grown, and not because of some MNC from the west.

{get money to run such programs if no wealth is created in the society? you are talking about noble intentions but with no plans to back it.} Wealth is always created by individuals. Bill Gates (the individual) created wealth and he should rightly be accepted for what he did. Michael Dell created wealth. But, when they became huge MNC`s it is now run by the Board of Directors, a cadre of screw ball politicians, who are no different from the other government bureaucrats.

As soon as these enterprising companies go for public money in the stock market, the ownership changes. And that is the distinction.

{GE india itself has filed numerous patents. } But that belongs more to Jefferey Immelt and his coterie of managers than the individual country. And that is what the problem is.

Steve Jobs invented Pixar, and rightfully sold his company to Disnaey for $6B. Now the management who takes over Pixar will continue moving forward with this investment. How would they know how to create wealth?

Remember, management has always been wealth protectors, and rarely wealth creators.

{IT companies are leveraging the cost factor to their advantage.} Name one IT invention that has come out from the Indian companies independent of the MNCs. Why do we always see Steve Jobs face?

{also, the GE`s, IBM`s, MS`s, Intel`s are no walmart, they have created a job market for these skilled people in india they havn`t snatched them from a ``high-paying government`` job.} GE`s slogan is that they bring good things to life. Do you honestly think that GE has done that to India? Why do we not see every Indian household having GE light bulbs? or refrigerator. I have always heard about Godrej`s refrigerator in India.

Grow up.

Providing a design center, is once again robbing India from the intellectual capacity and giving them pittance in return. American babies use diapers that have more value than your Indian design engineers get in a whole month. And that is a fact, go check it out.

#119 by bbabu on January 25, 2006 2:19pm PT

{ How about tossing out Shaukat Aziz ex-VP of Citicorp private banking ? I hope you realize he is money man for all the developing world elites who deposit their money in Citibank.}

Yes, I know that. Again, I am not against individuals. I am against concept of sucking up to the MNC. And this guy has not been successful so far. I am not against smaller American companies to come and open business in Pakistan. But, the paindoos in Islamabad want to get a sixer, instead of small baby steps. For example, City of Austin has sister city programes with major cities of the world, such as London, and Tokyo, Taipei, etc. Why can`t our so called smart leaders come and schmooze City of Austin leaders? But, they won`t because all the capital they spend are in Washington, DC.

{Preach what you practice } I wish I could practice, what I preach. I can only preach, right now. But, Paindoos in Islamabad are playing musical chairs with their brains that is just stuck between their legs. I sometimes wonder whose legs. Their mouth are not connected with their brains.


Ref:#118 by arjun_m on January 25, 2006 1:48pm PT

You are really a factoid junkie, with one line snippets.

{Funny....} And you will believe what you want to believe. I have always been anti-MNC`s. It takes brains to understand my posts.

#120, don`t spam this forum. Your questions asked on the other thread were answered already. When some evidence doesn`t fit in with your predetermined conclusion you reject the evidence instead of questioning your conclusion. The Russian public was better off under communism on all social indicators than they are under their capitalistic experiment. Clean up does not mean that you become worse off. Is that how you plan to clean up India? Some time back I had posted an article that documented data stating that only those countries that practiced protectionism were the ones whose growth rates did not decline in the 1980s at the rates that the decline in the Neo-libralized countries occurred. Economists today recognize that protectionism, by which the Western economic powers developed themselves, even when it sacrifices short term gain develops a base for long term sustainable development.

Please post your claims in appropriate threads and don`t spam.

#117, behram1, it is no longer possible to make a distinction between mom and pop style capitalism and corporate capitalism because, as you allude to as well, the latter has destroyed the former. Instead of culture there is marketing and the personality market that has whored everything human and placed a price tag on it.

I share your sentiments on how MNCs are destroying the world and I have tried here long enough, now it is time to return. My article ``declarations of independance`` might be handy in your toolbox as you oppose the MNCs, it can be read here
http://www.selvesandothers.org/article12202.html

The Indian government will of course be on the wrong side of the forums, the tide seems to be changing in Pakistan and hopefully during the next decade it will unalign itself from the US MNC dominated world economic system.

Re # 112
Asadi Sahib, I didn’t mean you as person, but those who hold views such as yours (e.g., the Imam of Pilsbury mosque in London) who would rather live in the West than in their own country.

Do you in all honesty believe that you can express your leftist views in the countries you see so “victimized”? #1, you are not a leftist, but a hate-monger. If you were a leftist, you would advise your muslim brothers to take their heads out of the Allah’s ass and get with the program. A leftist will stand up for human rights for everyone regardless of sexual orientation, gender, color or religious beliefs. Can you stand up for the rights of Muslim Homosexuals? They are persecuted in Egypt and frowned upon all over the muslim world. Can you?

#122 behram:

the 100000 new jobs/year I attributed were just new jobs, the creation could have been through MNC`s or indian companies like Wipro, Infosys, reddys, other bpo services.

it seems you are targetting MNC`s in particular. no where i have just promoted mnc`s.

these jobs could come by relaxing labor policies within the country or divesting huge state monopolies which are run by bureacrats eg. vsnl, since relaxation of policies so many indian and foreign players are competing in the indian market and has resulted in a huge market.

nevertheless, mnc`s end up having more resources and capital to invest for growth.

``the MNC hardly pays any US taxes, because the company says that the product is made in a foreign country. ``

i think mnc`s do have to pay taxes on money earned abroad. just last year bush relaxed that policy so that pharma industry could bring billions of it at a low tax.

``And Nasser was the one who screwed up Ford, and who is paying for with job cuts. You guessed it, the workers who had absolutely no part in the decison making process. ``

there are several eg. which will prove otherwise. but i am not trying to talk about the the workings of a mnc or the pay of a ceo. thats another topic by itself.

``replacing an evil with another set of evil does not make any sense. ``

why is creating jobs an evil?

``Governments should leave individuals free to develop its economy. However, it should protect their country from the invasion of MNC`s. There is no quick fix for economic well being of a country. You can not marry your country into wealth. ``

almost every country in the world is a signatory of WTO, how are you going to prevent some particular company from coming in? if the people of the country doesn`t want what the mnc has to offer, they will reject it by themselves. kellogs took a long time to enter indian homes.


``Look at South Korea. Samsung is home grown, and not because of some MNC from the west. ``

you can add daewoo, hyundia to that list too. but that happened in a capitalist environment. there may have been many other korean companies who didn`t make it. also do you think samsung grew under gov. protection? i would be surprised if it was given subsidies.

``But, when they became huge MNC`s it is now run by the Board of Directors, a cadre of screw ball politicians, who are no different from the other government bureaucrats. ``

but behram, who is the chairman of ms board of director?????

``Now the management who takes over Pixar will continue moving forward with this investment. How would they know how to create wealth? ``

well if they don`t create wealth (by making movies) then the stock will fall and management replaced. also, jobs is not going anywhere he is in the board of director.


``Do you honestly think that GE has done that to India? Why do we not see every Indian household having GE light bulbs? or refrigerator. I have always heard about Godrej`s refrigerator in India. ``

behram, no one starts a company for charity. you have to make money to stay afloat. is not as if there were no GE, GoI would have put bulbs in every indian homes. atleast some families are paying bills due to their GE job.

anyway, nice chatting. i will continue talking to you on this issue.

salim: I knew you would agree once you understood what I was trying to say, and what kulharee then made crystal clear. These ``west-hating islam pasandas`` are as big fakes as the latest ``islam pasand``....drum roll puhlease!!.....he-e-e-e-e-r-e`s wacko ben jacko

(no kidding. here is the link Jackson`s veiled attempt at shopping in Bahrain (cnn)

Because Israel does not threaten to wipe Iran (or any other country) off the map- publically at least.

#124, Kulharee Sahib states: <<< Asadi Sahib, I didn’t mean you as person, but those who hold views such as yours (e.g., the Imam of Pilsbury mosque in London) who would rather live in the West than in their own country.

Do you in all honesty believe that you can express your leftist views in the countries you see so “victimized”? #1, you are not a leftist, but a hate-monger >>>

Something is very apparent in Kulharee`s posts. Once he is caught in a lie, he covers that up with more lies.

Here is what he had states in his post #94 <<< Tahmed32 Sahib is making a very valid point. All these so called lefty commie terrorists sympathizers, like Asadi Sahib and Naqshbandi Sahib, would never want to live any of the countries they see so victimized by the ``west >>>

Seems very PERSONAL to me and ``lefty commie terrorist sympathizers`` tells me that he is talking about ``leftys``. Kulharee instead of jumping all over the board why don`t you stick to what you want to state. Proving yourself a hypocrite with your lips firmly planted on George Bush`s a$$ leaves you in no moral position to point fingers at anyone. And since you know ZIP about me, don`t try to imagine my biography, comprendey??