Iran, Geopolitics and the Bomb

Nobody in the world wants you crazy jihadists to have The Bomb. In fact, I wouldn`t be surprised if Pakistan has already been de-fanged.

Camel jockeys on horses and camels were bad enough. The world doesn`t need you fcukers to have missiles and The Bomb.

Well Pakistan has already got missiles (as do a lot of Muslim countries) and we have The Bomb already so there, you bovine-phile.

An attack on Iran for enriching Uranium whilst leaving Israel alone despite it having a deadly arsenal of 200 plus thermonuclear bombs will further alienate the Muslim world and create more sympathy for al-Qaeda and other such groups.



Nothing short of praying 5 times a day in the direction of mecca ``alienated`` the muslims world and creates ``sympathy for Al-Qeada``..

The fact that muslims have sympathy for AQ, a terrorist group, should never be questioned...If they support a terrorist group, it`s someone else`s fault....Muslims are always above reproach.

Yet when there is backlash against muslims in the US and Europe, it`s the fault of the other side...muslims, with their theo van ghoghs and london bombings, are beyond reproach..

Why Iran and not Israel: Because Israel isn`t likely to use the weapons against the west..

#2 by Naqshbandi on January 22, 2006 5:24am PT

The west has your leaders...so the arab/muslim street can do squat... just look at mushy`s neutered reaction to the bombing in bajaur..

@harimau..
being a Muslim and having a bomb is not a threat..shun this notion implanted from the West that the Muslims are terrorists. If this would have been a case, no patch on earth would have been without being engaged in petty battles.

The one who oppose the concept have already tried it on the Japanese. Much more annihilation has been carried out in Iraq and Afghanistan, and when one Muslim T.V channel tries to cover it, it is threatened to be bombed. Is this not heart aching for the Muslim world. Although West shuns and opposes Muslims to have the bomb, yet it takes all the resources of OIL. Double standards?

Majority of the world population is either the product of media or illegal sex. What is painted is true, what lies within is illogical and irrelevant.
Mere puppets dance to the tunes made from fire in which they are to burn and dwell.

Pakistan has the bomb - the only Muslim nation to have it. If Pakistan would have been devoid of it, India would have usurped it back in 1998. And moreover the West fears the Islamic bloc.
Moreover, why does West throw a banter of a Muslim nation having the thing, when that country is third world. Can`t the west rely on its technology and innovate counter measures? Why would an elephant be threatened by an ant with iron armour?

When the west has double standards, so does Pakistan, one to safeguard its special interest and second to keep the west under the inflated notion that Pakistan is its ally. Can`t believe the west has been drawn into day dreaming.

Moreover, the West need not fear Iran, rather Pakistan. When Russia adventured with Pakistan on the Afghani soil, it had to see its last. The world should fear not terrorist but Pakistan!!!
For a second to be in the boots of an atheist, Russia was God. Pakistanis are breakers of Gods.

America should take heed of this.

The central thesis of this article - that Iran has the right to develop nuclear technology for peaceful means - is beyond any debate. However, one critical element that has not been given due credit in this article is the central role of Israel in creating this current crisis. America government and the american public are too exhausted, bloodied, and spent after the ill advised invasion of Iraq. They are not interested in starting another war. Europe too has its vested interests in the current setup of Iran. Europeans are doing brisk business with Iran in the absence of american competitors.

But there is ONE entity which is working day and night to make a war happen - and that entity is the illegal state of Israel. This tiny racist entity is pushing all its muscle on the impotent american congress and presidency. Hardly a day goes by when a senator or a congressman does not add fuel to the ``iran controversy`` by uttering jewish lobby fed words on Iran.

This illegal state of Israel has caused much damage to America and its prestige. Young boys from Detroit, Kansas, Vermont, New York were thrown into Iraq war for the security of Israel - not for the security of America. Billions of dollars that could have funded education and welfare of poor americans were instead diverted to a war that served NO ONE but Israel.

The sooner the middle america realize that their country has been held hostage by a foreign entity, the better it would be for protecting their way of life.

Ref Naqshbandi #2

[Well Pakistan has already got missiles (as do a lot of Muslim countries)..]

Actually, missiles with liquid fuel deteriorate over time. So the missiles that Saudi Arabia bought from China are pretty much useless; or, will soon be.

[.... and we have The Bomb already...]

Well, that is the questionable part. How much of the CIA snooping inside Pakistan is for the purpose of locating Osama and how much is for finding out where Mushy keeps his nukes is not known but you can be sure that the CIA is doing the latter more seriously than it is doing the former. After all, all RAND Corporation studies point to the disintegration of Pakistan in the next 30 years no matter what anybody does. And I am sure that Mushy has been told that Pakistan will be the next open-air nuclear testing ground if Pakistan so much as threatens the use of its nukes against any targets that the US considers to be in its vital interests. No matter what you guys may think of India, from the US viewpoint there is only one country that can be a counterweight in Asia to China and no, it ain`t Pakistan.

I am actually for selling fully developed nuclear bombs to North Korea and Taiwan, just to piss off Japan which will then develop its own nukes which will piss off China. Not at all a bad scenario, in my opinion. Somebody ought to put a few chillies up the Chinese butt.

Shouldn`t world community be more cautious of these neo-colonial thugs who actually possess the nuclear weapons and consider it their birth right to use it against any nation:



France defends right to nuclear reply to terrorism

BREST, France (Reuters) - France said on Thursday it would be ready to use nuclear weapons against any state that carried out a terrorist attack or used weapons of mass destruction against it.

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Reaffirming the need for its costly nuclear deterrent, President Jacques Chirac said security came at a price and France must be able to hit back hard at a hostile state`s centers of power and its ``capacity to act.``

Chirac`s speech pointed to a change of emphasis to underline the growing threat France perceives from terrorism.

``The leaders of states who would use terrorist means against us, as well as those who would consider using, in one way or another, weapons of mass destruction, must understand that they would lay themselves open to a firm and adapted response on our part,`` Chirac said at a northwestern nuclear submarine base.

``This response could be a conventional one. It could also be of a different kind,`` said Chirac, his most explicit linkage of a threat of a nuclear response to a terrorist attack.

Chirac, 73, who as president is commander-in-chief, said France`s nuclear forces had been reshaped with the new strategy in mind and the number of warheads on nuclear submarines had been reduced to allow targeted strikes.

Experts believe the French arsenal comprises some 300 warheads.

SECURITY TIGHT

``Against a regional power, our choice would not be between inaction or annihilation,`` Chirac said in his first major speech on France`s nuclear arms strategy since 2001.

``The flexibility and reactivity of our strategic forces would enable us to exercise our response directly against its centers of power and its capacity to act.``

Critics have questioned the role of France`s nuclear deterrent, which accounts for some 10 percent of the overall defense budget, in a post war world. Especially as France is struggling to haul its public deficit to below EU limits.

The Le Monde daily said Chirac was reaffirming nuclear deterrence ahead of 2007 presidential elections which could usher in a new leader less attached to the policy.

Barthelemy Courmont of France`s Institute for International and Strategic Relations, detected no major policy shift, saying: ``This is a development which is in line with the development of the international context.``

France has tightened security since Islamist suicide bombers killed more than 50 people in attacks in London last July and 190 people died in Madrid bomb attacks in March 2004.

Despite its strong opposition to the U.S.-led war in Iraq, France remains a target for Islamic militants because of its intelligence links with the United States and Britain.

France believes a radical Algerian Islamist group, the GSPC, has been in contact with al Qaeda`s leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, about launching attacks in France.

But Communist and disarmament groups said Chirac`s comments were irresponsible.

``Far from ridding France of nuclear weapons, the president is, on the contrary, considering the actual use of nuclear bombs,`` the Sortir du Nucleaire group said.

The revolution in Iran, way back in the late `70s, and culminating with the deprture of the Shah in the spring of 1980, was certainly not ``Islamic``. That is the first mistake the author makes.

If anything, the Iranian revolution was an example of how disparate elements from the extreme left through to the extreme right, and all points in between, got together as people from a country to get rid of a by then hated monarch. Even the Kurds co-operated, and that is saying something, with the Iranian revolution.

How this Iranian Revolution then brought forward an Islamic State, is something else again.

+++

I do agree with the analysis that the author presents, on the state and State of modern day Iran. If anything, in addition, this is a country where science and culture, books and movies, lifestyle and values, and more, have come together like in no other Islamic country in that part of the world.

+++

But will this alienate Israel?

Think again. That is the second mistake the author makes.

In a changing world scenario, is it difficult to imagine Israel partnering with some of its erstwhile foes? If the presence of an Emirates jet in Tel Aviv is any indication, as well as the diploamtic and other relations that Israel has with Qatar, then the backwards in the ``Muslim countries`` have more to fear than does far-away USA.

I would think that Iran having a bomb is less of a worry for Israel (even with all the outrage expressed by the Israelis), than it is to the Sunni world. The chance of Iranian nukes flying into tel avaiv are a lot less likely than Iranian nukes flying into Riyadh or Islamabad. The schizm within the muslim world is more dangerous to the counterparties than the supposed enmity towards the ``occupiers``. Iran knows that it will get spanked like a red headed stepchild byt he Israelis and the west but it can certainly play the ``me too`` card with the sunnis.

Someone mentioned CIA in Pakistan. This is not new. SInce 2001, one of the primary responsibilities of the ``Bin-laden`` desk at the CIA (same desk that wrested control of the predator program from Air force intelligence). WHich sits, not at Langley but across the street adn prepares a daily breifing to the state, CIA and the cabinet has been active in locating, tagging, and decrypting the mobile launching capabilities of Pakistan. Moreso, the desk with operatives now running on the ground know exactly how many and where the nuclear assets of Pakistan are.

Until 2003 Paki and US intelligence authorities worked together and apart for collective and individual interests. Since last year, US has enough operational depth in Pakistan that it doesn`t require the official Standard operating Procedures for information relay and vetting through official Pak army and ISI relationships. Even if the Pak army didn;t know about the Bajur strike, ISI did. We are back to the 80`s in Pakistan/US relationship.

I for one am looking forward to see how this unfolds.

chalta.

``The chance of Iranian nukes flying into tel avaiv are a lot less likely than Iranian nukes flying into Riyadh or Islamabad`` ...........

...........dreaming doesn`t make your wishes come true - all it does is wet your pajamas .......

#11: No one wants misiles flying anyway, my friend. But the enmity between riyadh and tehran runs pretttttty deep.

#11 by hamidm2 on January 22, 2006 8:42am PT


...........dreaming doesn`t make your wishes come true all it does is wet your pajamas .......


going by that, you should change the name of the land of the pure to wetpajamaistan..

If this happens, monthly parking for a GMC Tahoe in NYC will be worth more than the Tahoe..

Israeli Hints at Preparation to Stop Iran
Email this Story

Jan 21, 9:00 PM (ET)

By JOSEF FEDERMAN

JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel`s defense minister hinted Saturday that the Jewish state is preparing for military action to stop Iran`s nuclear program, but said international diplomacy must be the first course of action.

``Israel will not be able to accept an Iranian nuclear capability and it must have the capability to defend itself, with all that that implies, and this we are preparing,`` Shaul Mofaz said.

His comments at an academic conference stopped short of overtly threatening a military strike but were likely to add to growing tensions with Iran.

Iran`s nukes are ok as long as they do not use it against someone. The real problem is the reaction of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria and Egypt to Iranian nukes.

arjun_m said

````...........dreaming doesn`t make your wishes come true all it does is wet your pajamas .....

going by that, you should change the name of the land of the pure to wetpajamaistan..````



What do you know about Islamic Revolution? As far as i have read and understood your comments in chowk, you are just targetting any one with your eyes close ( that explans your name) without even thinking and understanding the topic.

It is nothing but apartheid to deny some nations what others possess and flaunt. Ideally, there should be nuclear parity on a global basis, with everyone from Nicaragua to Newzealand allowed there own weapons. If one takes the killing power of nukes, this parity should be achieved by everyone not opting for these deadly weapons. This is what India under Pt. Nehru tried to put across to the great nations of the world for nearly 3 decades after her independence. During that period, we got nothing but disdain from the great powers. The moralistic posture was inferred as a strategic weakness and we were dismissed as a bunch of sissies :-)

I read sometime back about a similar scenario in the 1920s. Tagore after getting Nobel Prize was touring Japan and lamented the excessive militarization and demonization of the other. He opined that such attitudes will goad the nations into war and bring unfathomable destruction and grief. A leading Japanese paper contemptuously dismissed his sermonizing as the `poetry of the defeated people` :-)

India learnt its lesson the hard way. We were impaled by an unexpected invasion from a country we professed friendship with. The same country pursued and got nukes while the great powers looked the other way. If there were any doubts, they were cleared when nuclear-tipped Armada of a superpower landed at our shores when we were liberating another country from the clutches of our sworn enemy. We had no choice but to arm ourselves, morality be damned. There is no option but to obey the universal law of jiski laathi uski bhains.

++++++++++

It doesn`t matter whether Iran is errant as per this or that provision of some unjust treaty. What matters is the fact that Iran is disliked by US and big powers of Europe. My hunch is that they`ll be attacked before the term of current US president gets over, the nuclear sabre-rattling providing a convenient excuse.

From Indian POV, this would be yet another setback. Friendly regimes in our neighbourhood countries are being replaced with puppet governments who are inimical to our interests. The secular Shah helped Pakistan during ’71 crisis, while under ‘Mullah’ Khatami, we held joint operations with Iranians. Besides, this warlike atmosphere in middle-east will cause the oil prices to sky-rocket, punishing our economy in the process.

Last week I was watching a talk show on BBC on the Iranian nuclear issue. A correspondent relayed the Russian mood thus, “The Russian media is sympathetic to Iran and they feel the oil prices are too low”. When the hostess pointed that it was in the excess of 60$ per barrel, he said Russians don’t think so. A barrel of Coke (retail) costs 400$, so oil is under-priced and a volatility in the market will help improve the prices. Russians have discovered a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose scenario. If Iran is not attacked, they’ll take credit for averting the disaster, further cementing their relations with the Islamic republic, else they’ll benefit from spiralling oil prices.

Iran is doomed!

Long post but the topic needs a good discussion...


A timely article though trivial and perhaps naïve conclusions. The problem between the US and Iran is almost 28 years old now. The US was irked not by Iran becoming an Islamic country but because it lost an important post in Iran. If the Islamite had turned pro-America at any point after the Shah, the US and Iran would have been in the best of relations like Suadia and the US are now. So it has nothing to do with Iran being an Islamic country.

All wars are about resources and especially the wars where western countries are involved. That’s what history tells us beginning with the rampage the western countries went thru the world for capturing colonies. In the 21st century, it is in no one interest to colonize a country forever to control resources. Surgical strikes and establishing pro west governments would do the trick.

It has nothing to do with nuke or the new Iran president with weird statements. The US was looking for an opportunity to get to Iran way before it was thinking of Iraq. In fact, Iran was the main motivating force for attacking Iraq. The idea was to establish a beachhead in Iraq and use the same forces to enter Iran. The two other places one can enter Iran are Pakistan and Afghanistan. Pakistan is too far away from Tehran for an infantry to use. The terrain in Afghanistan is unusable for mounting a quick strike with a rapidly moving small force like the one used in Iraq. Iraq was the only location for the US to use ground forces against Iran.

The US did not plan for a long control of Iraq until it met an unexpected resistance that was mounted by the Baathist and now being actively supported by Iran. Iran has effectively bogged down the US forces in Iraq. Many people forget that the disbanded Iraq army consisted of majority Shia conscripts and they are still out there and are probably controlled by Iran’s secret services.

The US cannot pull out of Iraq until it resolves the Iran problem and the problem with Iran is getting tricky with every passing day. The US attempts in Iraq to raise the Iraqi army to free up the US army have been successfully thwarted by Iranian by constantly attacking the new recruit and training facilities.

The Iran crisis also needs to be looked at from the internal political situation in the US. The conservative US government is currently in a serious decline and might possibly lose the control in both US houses. To arrest that situation, the Bush admin will have to act during the summer and will have to increase the volume in the next couple of month. The strikes on Iran this coming summer may not be large scale but would be enough to ensure status quo in both houses in 2006 elections.

So, we may see an incessant talk of WMD, nukes etc. in the coming month though nobody has a good handle on whether Iran has any nuke or not. The argument as in the case of Iraq would be the same. Should the US wait to find out whether Iran has the WMD or nuke or assume that Iran has the capability? It is the “mushroom cloud” argument and I think the US public would take the bait again.

What would be Israel’s role? Israel can mount aerial strikes against Iran but unlike Iraq, Iran’s nuke facilities are spread over at least 14 areas. How many can Israel attack and incapacitate in overnight surgical attacks? Israel can get in Iran easily but getting out would follow missiles to main Israeli cities and inevitably destroy any further US action in Iran.

So Israel is just talk and the US would never allow it to attack Iran. The US may use Israeli facilities. Israel will keep the rhetoric to help the US in mounting the case for attack on Iran for the US public consumption.

What would be the consequences for the area in case of the US attacks on Iran? In the Middle East setting one element in motion can trigger some other elements too.

There is one other factor that needs to be looked at. Who is behind Iran? Why would Iran President do the trash talk unless he wants to provoke the US and allow the US to make a case for the US attack in the US public?

Isn’t he making the case for the US with some boneheaded but very pertinent diatribes against the US and Israel?

Lastly, what would be the “fear premium” on the oil prices before and after the hostilities break out?

The irani president needs to take Diplomacy 101 before his another outburst.

By seeking to wipe off israel from the face of earth or disbanding it to alaska or europe, he is embarassing nations willing to support irans cause.

malik thinks that it is israeli ``conspiracy`` and may be the ``jewish lobby -controlled`` congress is acting on israels behalf. but what about Chirac`s warning?

I was rather surprised that the ``old europe`` and bush are speaking the same language.

Other point is why does oil and gas surplus iran need electricity?

anyway, maybe iranis would heed to russias plan and do uranium enrichment in russia, satisfying all the parties.

re: 19

correction:

``Other point is why does oil and gas surplus iran need electricity? ``

should read

....need nuclear power to generate electricity.

HP #18

`` It has nothing to do with nuke or the new Iran president with weird statements. The US was looking for an opportunity to get to Iran way before it was thinking of Iraq. In fact, Iran was the main motivating force for attacking Iraq. The idea was to establish a beachhead in Iraq and use the same forces to enter Iran. The two other places one can enter Iran are Pakistan and Afghanistan. Pakistan is too far away from Tehran for an infantry to use. The terrain in Afghanistan is unusable for mounting a quick strike with a rapidly moving small force like the one used in Iraq. Iraq was the only location for the US to use ground forces against Iran. ``

Iran is too big whether you attack from Pakistan or Iraq. Iranian oil fields are closer to the Iraqi border than the Pakistani border. I will give you that.

`` The US did not plan for a long control of Iraq until it met an unexpected resistance that was mounted by the Baathist and now being actively supported by Iran. Iran has effectively bogged down the US forces in Iraq. Many people forget that the disbanded Iraq army consisted of majority Shia conscripts and they are still out there and are probably controlled by Iran’s secret services. ``

Iraqi Shites are too smart to be controlled by Iran. They will work with Iran as long as they have mutual interests.

`` The Iran crisis also needs to be looked at from the internal political situation in the US. The conservative US government is currently in a serious decline and might possibly lose the control in both US houses. To arrest that situation, the Bush admin will have to act during the summer and will have to increase the volume in the next couple of month. The strikes on Iran this coming summer may not be large scale but would be enough to ensure status quo in both houses in 2006 elections. ``

I doubt military strikes on Iran are low risk and worth the political trouble.

Re:Netizen#19

[...The irani president needs to take Diplomacy 101 before his another outburst...]

I am convinced that the new Iranian President Ahmedinijad is a long lost cousin of our favorite Parsee Paindu - Behram Atashband!! Maybe they had a common zoroastrian ancestor or maybe they are brothers who got separated at childhood in a mela!! :-)

How else can one explain the absurd, moronic statements he is making every day? It is ``Aa bail mujhe maar!!``. I thought the Iranians were smarter than that. But I guess, every race produces black sheep like ahmedinijad and behram.

you don`t take a razor out of man`s hand......only a monkey`s.......


Jews aren`t fanatics who destroyed other civilizations (they have been victims since the dawn of history).......muslims did.....latest madening threats to wipe out Israel doesn`t help the cause either.......

The answer is simple...Israel because of it`s overwhelming Military power does not invoke the Samson option except as a matter of last resort. It is a well known fact that Israels security is underwritten by the US, one only has to look at the Yom Kippur was to confirm that fact, after all the US went to a Nuclear alert & launched one of the biggest ever military airlifts in history to ensure Israel could turn the tide.

That is not unusual, India does much the same..the US policy during the Cold war was more akin to Pakistans policy..that is one of refusing a no first strike agreement which would give the Soviets with their numerical superiority an advantage. In fact the US has considered Nukes as an option even in low intensity conflicts like Korea and Gulf war mark 1..

Ahmedinajads comments aren`t something new, one party states tend to use propaganda quite often, and when they are hardliners like him they tend to use it even more. Focussing on his comments this time seems more like something which suited those opposing Iran.

I like Persian pussies.

kaura # 23 ``you don`t take a razor out of man`s hand......only a monkey`s....... ``

you dont trust chimps and sikhs with their own countries...only humans

I have a feeling that Iran has already achieved its targets minus an actual detonation. I think the current pressure is to force Iran to declare itself officially so that a calculated strategy wrt Iraq could be detrmined viz a viz Iran. The issue is that Americans are itching to bomb some Iranian towns like they did Bajore Agency in Pakistan and killed innocent women and children - but unlike Pakistan which is ruled by neutered faujis and 450K transvestites, Iran is a proud nation and probably the only nation so far in the third world who have not only successfully uprooted colonial powers and also the social class that is usually the custodian of western interests in such countries. So Americans and its European neocolonial allies want to assess where Iran stands wrt its defense. If this is true then Ahmadinijad is a cunning fox, probably more cunning than late Hafiz ul Asad.

Well said, unfortunately well meaning folks like you need to acquaint or re-acquaint yourselves with a concept called ``realpolitik`` coined by Bismarck of WW I era. Means that the West assert its will because it can, yes I know, tis hypocrisy!!

Unless Ahmadinijad tones down his crap and Mullahs make nice with the West, bad stuff is about to commence.

Alternatively, make nice, continue to make nice, keep buliding nukes, make damn sure to keep playing China and Europe against each other, neutralize the US. Because the we have no stomach left for figthing a land war, much less an appetaite for $5.00 a gallon gas!!

Abdul Arif

the question the US Iranians are asking -- from where did the native Irannians find this stupid illiterate ignorant foot-in-mouth idiot -- Ahmednejad for the presidency of a country like Iran at this critical juncture......who did not deserve to be even the mayor of Tehran in the first place.......how he became the President ....

.....but then again you come to think of it -- couldn`t be a worthier nemesis of an equally ignorant man from Texas ......and how he became the president of a country like the Jeffersonian United States......

nasah #29

`` the question the US Iranians are asking -- from where did the native Irannians find this stupid illiterate ignorant foot-in-mouth idiot -- Ahmednejad for the presidency of a country like Iran at this critical juncture......who did not deserve to be even the mayor of Tehran in the first place.......how he became the President ....

.....but then again you come to think of it -- couldn`t be a worthier nemesis of an equally ignorant man from Texas ......and how he became the president of a country like the Jeffersonian United States...... ``

that was hilarious

The difference is that there are no Ayatollahs in the US narrowing down the lists of possible contenders for president to the nearest 1.

#27 by Urstruly on January 22, 2006 5:46pm PT



The issue is that Americans are itching to bomb some Iranian towns like they did Bajore Agency in Pakistan


Maulana urstruly...the US has bombed Pakiland 3 times before this bombing..and that`s just since may 2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10966809/site/newsweek/

Despite the ethics—and public relations—issues, U.S. officials involved with the hunt for bin Laden and Zawahiri said they`re quite sure that the benefits of the Predator campaign outweigh the costs. According to two former officials, several groups of missile-armed Predators—some of which are equipped with laser-guided gravity bombs—are based in the region. And a Pakistani official privy to intelligence says the January Predator strike was the fourth inside Pakistan`s borders since May 2005 (two more than have been reported previously). Beginning earlier this month, the military and CIA have also begun to use the first production models of the Global Hawk unmanned recon aircraft, which can survey distances of more than 100 miles from 65,000 feet and direct the lower-flying Predator to precise targets.

re: this article
This article builds up a weak defense for a nuclear Iran.
Let us look at this logically.
Iran has surplus gas as the energy source. So, clearly it is not building nuclear facilities for an alternate source of energy. That would be a stupid thing to do.
It is building (or trying to build) a nuclear arsenal in the belief that it would somehow give Iran the kind of political mileage that North Korea has. After all, N.Korea was able to thumb its nose at the West and get away with it mainly because nobody wanted a nuclear conflargration with a crackpot dictator ruling that country.
That is the simple logic that dictates the quest for nuclear weaponry in Iran.
There is then the civilizational angle.
Iranians are peeved (or, shall i say, pissed off) that a vastly inferior race (and Sunnis to boot) that Pakis are have yet managed to become nuclear and get away with it. If Pakis can, why can`t we? That is how the argument goes.
Then there is the civilizational arrogance. Darius was given a sound thrashing by Alexander and his great city of Persepolis was burnt down beyond recognition by the latter and yet the present day Iranians think of themselves as children of Darius the great. There is little resemblance. Present day Iran is a sham democracy with mullocracy at the top. Women have very little rights. I have posted many articles to prove my point in another forum. Yet, Iranians would like us believe it is a great civilization, inheritors of legacy of Darius the great. There is a lot of hypocrisy here.
Iran is no friend of India. Like Pakistan, Iran too is an ideological state. It changes its tunes to suit its ideology.
A denuked and humbled Iran would be better for world peace.
Sridhar

The new emerging ``Iran threat`` (just like the earlier ``Saddam threat``) that the US elite are touting now, and their corporate media is hyping in its usual fashion, is mere steam (hot air). In Iraq and Afghanistan the US helped Iran`s agendas in the region and now Iran is paying back the US by the idiotic rhetoric of its president Mr. Ahmadenijad. To me it seems like a classic, ``you scratch my back I scratch yours`` scenario. The US gets to keep a perpetual threat in that region alive now that Iraq has turned sour, while Iran gets to feed off of the US doing its bidding and sending that bank robber Ahmad Chalaby to visit with the Iranian elite time and again. Something smells awful in this ``love/hate`` relationship between Iran and the US.

To find out what the US elite are upto at the current time, I often visit their main thinktank, Project for the New American Century. Many of its founders are now the leading Neo-Cons in this administration. A while back this thinktank put out an article on Iran and I wrote a rebuttal of it back in September of `05. It is reproduced below. Sorry for taking the extra space, I`m reproducing it here instead of submitting it because experience tells me it will be censored by the editors.



The Incoherence of the Incoherent
The Neo Cons and their ``Project for the new American Century``

Tuesday 13th September 2005, by Muhammed Asadi


The Neo-Conservative movement wants Iran to emerge rapidly as the new military threat facing the U.S. in order to advance their ``Project for the new American Century.`` Being worried by the ``time-delay`` the Washington Post gives Iran in acquiring nuclear weapons (not before 2015 will Iran have them according to the report), Gary Schmitt of the ``Project`` states that because US intelligence, by its own admission, knows very little about nuclear weapons development in Iran, their conclusions on the ``time delay`` might be wrong. Iran (according to Schmitt’s personal intelligence) could have a weapon before that time. How he arrives at that implied conclusion and how his intelligence capabilities are worthy of greater trust than national intelligence estimates, were not stated in this ``memo``, which was written to the highest opinion leaders in the US. He reminds the ``opinion leaders`` in the article that just as national intelligence estimates were wrong on Saddam Hussein’s WMDs before the first Gulf War (they underestimated the threat according to him) and the current Iraq war (they overestimated it this time, according to him), they might well be underestimating Iran’s nuclear weapons capabilities.

What is alarming about these incoherent conclusions coming from the Neo-Conservatives, more so than their blunt hypocrisy (note that this is coming from the same camp whose friends in the establishment were pressuring the intelligence community to practically cook the WMD ``intelligence`` on Iraq ), is the fact that such incoherence is what dictates the foreign policy of the U.S. power elite, and justifies the hundreds of billions given to the military industries, while millions of Americans go without adequate food (37 million) and health care (47 to 82 million during any given year). Little wonder that such ``leadership`` has resulted in a world where over 40,000 die everyday due to preventable causes, and the ecological conditions to sustain life itself are being destroyed by a mad grab for profits. This is the kind of ``leadership`` that the ``project`` seeks to advance.

Why is a time delay in Iran’s alleged acquisition of nuclear weapons causing problems for Gary Schmitt, William Kristol and the rest of the neo-conservatives that run this organization and practically this country? Not being satisfied with the mess and human misery they have created in Iraq, and not concerned at all with the half a million people displaced by hurricane Katrina (their Project for the ``American`` century site does not even make a casual mention of it), Kristol’s gang wants a new ``military threat`` to emerge, in the area they are most interested in, the Israeli neighborhood. They feel the necessity of a new threat at this time because the public is getting weary of their widely advertised ``Iraq threat``, that is being recognized as nonsense by the previously duped masses (as poll numbers reveal). At the same time their banal ``war on terror`` terminology is starting to cause problems for a leadership that rushed into implementing this ideologically inspired ``project``. Busy inventing new threats, the Neo-conservatives have found a comfortable home among Democrats and Republicans alike, in the ``organized irresponsibility`` (as C. Wright Mills put it) that describes the American political establishment. The consequences of that ``organized irresponsibility`` are what the displaced in New Orleans are confronting today.

Gary Schmitt informs us in his concluding paragraph: ``There are numerous practical problems we would confront in carrying out that decision (to attack Iran militarily), even if that were in theory the right one to make. But it does mean that we have no reason to relax, nor can we postpone difficult decisions indefinitely.``

Unconcerned about the carnage and human misery their ``right decision`` caused in Iraq, Schmitt concludes that war (with Iran) in the not too distant future, might still be ``the right decision to make``. PNAC’s sister ``patriotic`` organization, the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) mirrors these concerns about keeping the flame of perpetual war burning (Report #514) when it says ``Hurricane Katrina is an unmitigated disaster for the people of the Gulf Coast. It shouldn’t turn out to be a look into the future for the rest of us.``

As we read Schmitt’s advocacy of a new war even though such a war might have ``practical problems`` according to him, we are reminded of these prophetic words from the 1950s, by C. Wright. Mills, from his book, The Causes of World War Three (1958):

``The expectation of war solves many problems of the ``crackpot realists``; it also confronts them with many new problems. Yet these, the problems of war, often seem easier (for them) to handle.(compared) to political policies that are distasteful to many politicians...The terms of their long term solutions, under conditions of peace, are hard for the capitalist elite to face.`` (page, 87)

What is distasteful to these Neo-Conservative ``crackpot realists`` is peace in the Middle East, and the resulting effect that might have on regional development in the Arab world. In their uneasy alliance with corporations, whose leadership positions they normally hold when they are not posing as politicians, the Neo-Cons have found a dual fulfillment of purpose. The terms of the ``long term solution`` to the ``Palestinian problem`` are what they do not want to face. If that can be avoided, any ``practical problems`` that a new war might bring are easier for them to handle. The civilians who get killed in the thousands and the US soldiers (chosen by the way from the lower socioeconomic classes) that become casualties of war are of no consequence to them. These are all ``practical problems`` that they feel they can handle. In all such alliances to further power and wealth, human suffering and misery become at best, background noise justified by moral symbols, over used excuses, media distractions, and stage management.

re: Israel`s response
While long range missiles of Iran can reach Israel, Israel gets ready to take on a
nuclear Iran
Sridhar

Instead of power politics Muslim nations should start playing cricket as this Indian rate of scoring will put bowlers to sleeping. Cricket is good game and Pakistan can spread popularity in Muslim World. Do not make nuclear bombs but play cricket. The match is 100% draw useless game and useless pitch.

Korea which is more amenable to christianity, Iran is fast becoming a threat to Israel, the right hand of the christian USA.

Religion, once again, takes precedence in US foreign policy, over common sense.

#5 by kaptain

[@harimau..
being a Muslim and having a bomb is not a threat..shun this notion implanted from the West that the Muslims are terrorists. If this would have been a case, no patch on earth would have been without being engaged in petty battles.]


This was a gimme...


India - Any PETTY battles with Islamists? Anybody?

Pakistan - ANy Islamic bombings in Churches? Minorities oppressed?

China - Chinese Muslims of Western China vs. the rest of the Chinese population.

A little bit of background:

``Islam flourished during the Ming dynasty (1271-1368), when all religions were tolerated and missionaries from Central Asia entered the country to engage in da`wah. Soon Nanjing, the Ming dynasty’s first capital, became famous as a major center of Islamic learning. The Islamic scholar Wang Daiyu wrote the influential Zhengjiao Zhenquan (Righteous Commentary on True Religion) and several other treatises in that city.

The Chinese Muslims’ peaceful existence dramatically changed during the Qing dynasty (1644-1911), however, when they increasingly asserted their demand for independence.``

It is the same story everywhere - tolerance is interpreted as weakness.


Myanmar (Burma) - Muslims vs. the rest of the Buddhist population.

Malayasia - Muslims are the majority, so only Indian Hindus are discriminated against.

Indonesia - Bombings in Hindu majority Bali. Christians killed on a routine basis.

Australia - Australian tourists targeted in S.Asia. The Australian Govt. is on the hit list of Al Quaeda.

All of the Middle East, North Africa, Central Africa - Muslims vs. Christians and Jews.


France - Riots by Muslim immigrants.

Germany - Local population vs Muslim immigrants from the Middle East.

Belgium, Holland, Sweden - Local population (once the most liberal and generous) now anti-Muslim after Theo Van Gogh was butchered.

England - Train bombings.

USA - 9/11.

#38 Ajeya writes

<<< Myanmar (Burma) - Muslims vs. the rest of the Buddhist population.

Malayasia - Muslims are the majority, so only Indian Hindus are discriminated against.

Indonesia - Bombings in Hindu majority Bali. Christians killed on a routine basis.

Australia - Australian tourists targeted in S.Asia. The Australian Govt. is on the hit list of Al Quaeda.

All of the Middle East, North Africa, Central Africa - Muslims vs. Christians and Jews.


France - Riots by Muslim immigrants.

Germany - Local population vs Muslim immigrants from the Middle East.

Belgium, Holland, Sweden - Local population (once the most liberal and generous) now anti-Muslim after Theo Van Gogh was butchered.

England - Train bombings.

USA - 9/11.
>>>>>

We should pay attention to such writings because this is how illiterates write. No facts just claims or sensationalized cases. The SUM total of what he mentions, the sum total all over the world does not come to be a small fraction of the 19000 people that are murdered every year in America according to the FBI, and ``MUSLIM`` is NO FACTOR in those murders. The fully one third of young African American males involved with the US criminal justice system, that by itself far surpasses any discrimination against minorities in Muslim lands, given the sheer proportion of the population.

Now, will he provide documentation of his claims or merely reproduce rhetoric like and I quote ``Germany - Local population vs Muslim immigrants from the Middle East`` what the hell do these quotes prove? Take another one ``Australian tourists targeted in S.Asia``- what is he writing for the National Enquirer now? He might as well write ``Aliens predict End of World in June 2006``. Or take this one, ``Malayasia - Muslims are the majority, so only Indian Hindus are discriminated against.``- what discrimination and where is your data and how does it compare to the discrimination against African Americans in USA or against Native Americans or against Muslims in France? Give me the facts not nonsense.

Ref:#33 by rsridhar on January 22, 2006 8:22pm PT

{Let us look at this logically. } And what you would know about logic? Have you solved a sudoku puzzle yet?

{There is a lot of hypocrisy here. } Yes, and that is what India has perfected.

{Iran is no friend of India.} Tell that to your leaders, why don`t you?

{A denuked and humbled Iran would be better for world peace.} Iran does not want nuclear technology to gain world`s respect and credibilty. It already has one. And what would you know?

Ref:#25 by Kulharee on January 22, 2006 5:22pm PT

{I like Persian pussies.} Thank God, you have some class. Persian pussies are a whole lot classier than those smelly and ugly looking Indian pussies, eh!

Ref: #17 by rahulmal on January 22, 2006 11:39am PT

{Iran is doomed!} Yeah, right!

Ref: #34 by masadi on January 22, 2006 8:37pm PT
{Something smells awful in this ``love/hate`` relationship between Iran and the US.} That something is the Hindoo India`s @ss, not sure which side to turn their @ss to get their sugar cane therapy. As usual, these Indians will try to please their new masters the MNC`s and then at the same time would want to keep Nehru`s socialistic ideology alive. In the upcoming debate between Iran and the West, India would be the loser, once again in the world political arena.

Over 300 million Latin Americans are under some sort of a leftist government, and almost every where you see India is becoming a pariah nation. India is in favor of the MNC`s and there is a war against golbalization raging on. But, heck if Hindoos had any brains at the right place they would use it. Most Hindoos` brains are located between their legs. Hindoo mouths are independent of their brains. And that is one major reason they developed Yoga. In Yoga, they can bend over and bring their mouths closer to their brains, when they are shoving it up their stinking @ss. And all the more reason for them to be squatting on railroad tracks.

Indians are strange creatures for humans to understand.

Dear Chowk Staff:

This is going to be an explosive site. Shortly, factoid junkie Arjun_m is going to innundate us with his cut & paste technolgy and his venom against Pakistan. For what Pakistan becomes the topic of discussion only his corrupt mind would know.

And then that other danger to humanity creature who calls himself rsridhar. He can never make up his mind (as he himself has acknowledge that his brains are in his b@lls), whether he likes or hates Pakistanis. This creature has continuously be seen spewing hate on these chowk sites.

And of course there is yet another creature that has been spotted who calls himself Ajeya. He is still a novice in this world, but is fast learning the hate from his mentors at the RSS.

And this has become the quality of your Chowk. No wonder, we do not see any new names coming on to your site any more. You must seriously consider your interact policy and not allow those Indians who are smelley, ugly and brainless on this site. You must be vigilant in allowing member privilages to interact with some modicom of decency.

Well, this is your site and you can make a decision. But, who soever I have personally invited, consider this site as junk yard, where Indians come and spew their hate CONSTANTLY against Pakistan and against muslims.

Obviously this should not be tolerated.

Respectfully submitted,

Your artcle raises various issues, American hegemon policies, Israeli axis, complete subjugation of western press and Persian civilization. Lets take them one by one.

American policy of preemption (better described as hegemony) has been the major source of unrest, states like North Korea have added to the perception that the only way to defend is offence and to ward off American unilateral policies the only option is nuclear capability. This counteroffensive can only succeed when states can deliver a comprehensive and definite threat, unfortunately for Iranian Govt they are decades away from that capability and surrounded by sunni dominated states who would like nothing better than a neutralized shia power.

At the center of this entire controversy is the state of Israel, no doubt about that. It is their sense of state security which considers Iranian technological advances as a threat which needs to be neutralized. Both, the Iranian and Israeil states are dominated by a religious doctrine which cannot enter into a dialogue with the other, they are both mutually exclusive rendering any chances of finding a solution null and void.

Iran has clreic dominated/directed/vetted democracy which can never be a good thing for anyone, especially the Iranians. Democracy in its true spirit cannot be cloned for a particular school of thought or group of people. Mullahs/Ayatollahs are also responsible for bringing Iranians closer to this situation, instead of choosing the path of moderation and particiaption they have opted for exclusivity and hardline approach. Whether they succeed or fail has yet to be decided, but dark clouds of American preemption are gathering over Iranian skies.

masadi:

could you please reply to #125 and #127 on ``Digital Giant`` board.

re: rf786 #45

``Both, the Iranian and Israeil states are dominated by a religious doctrine which cannot enter into a dialogue with the other, they are both mutually exclusive rendering any chances of finding a solution null and void. ``

iranian govt. does even consider israel right to exist. they call it an ``illegitimate`` country which should be destroyed. thats the problem. israel will be more than happy to have relations with muslim countries as they have with egypt, turkey, jordan. (and now pakistan trying to befriend it for ammo.) as having diplomatic relations will give further strenghten israels right to exist.

also, isn`t the shia-hezbollah supported by iranians.

The country where the national slogan is “Marge-ba-Amrika” (death to America) should be bombed the hell out of. Why don’t they say Marge-ba-Iraq or Marge-ba-Wahaibis who killed over a million Iranians not too long ago? Iran wants to be the big bully in the region full of morons (bar Israel). Hope they wake up from this dream and face the music. They should concentrate on making carpets (which they are good at) before they are carpet bombed by Israel.

re: Netizen #47

Illegitimate because it was imposed upon the Arab majority for sins committed by European christians. Frankly speaking, theocratic governments thrive on rhetoric and xenophobia, why doesnt the world feel threatned when Israeli leaders make equally provocative statements regarding Iran or other Muslim groups? Iran has yet to act on its empty threats, whereas Israel has demonstrated intent and ability, yet no remorse.

Israel has found peace with Egpyt, Jordan, Turkey, Morrocco, all of them can be best described as US client states or US sponsored/approved Governments.

Hezbullah are supported byt he Iranians, that maybe true, then again it was the American support to Afghan religious right which led to the creation of taliban and Al Qaeda. Hamas was supported by Israeli intelligence as a counterweight against PLO, so where does this take us? No where. States such as Israel have caused more human tragedies than the armed militias mentioned, does anyone bother to question state of Israel?

#49 rf786

``Israeli leaders make equally provocative statements regarding Iran or other Muslim groups?``

Muslim groups like hamas, fatah, al jihad???
are there other muslim groups i missed.

regarding iran, what provocative staements were made by them? i would like to know.

regarding israel-egypt peace, my point was irrespective of how it happened israel would like to have diplomatic relations with any nations including muslims. it is iran which doesn`t want it. do you remember the judo athlete who refused to fight an israelis and got a lot of admiration back home.

you are right, many mistakes were made by u.s., israel, india in the past. but does that give hamas, taliban, LTTE the right to continue? these groups are no longer in their control.

{``An attack on Iran for enriching Uranium whilst leaving Israel alone despite it having a deadly arsenal of 200 plus thermonuclear bombs will further alienate the Muslim world ...``}

Asif Sahib,
Good article and a very pertinent topic for the times. While I have concerns about the proliferation of nuclear weapons, there are some powerful issues of fairness, racism, historical accuracy, and jingoism that need to be recognized:

Nuclear weapons are bad for everyone, not just Iran, Pakistan, and India.
Why are people of Asian, African origin not capable of handling nuclear weapons?
The same thing was said about China in the 60s.
The same thing was said about India and Pakistan in the 80s.
Who was the first and only power to use nuclear weapons on human victims?
Why should only people of European origin be trusted with nuclear weapons?
Israel has been involved in more than three wars and several skirmishes since it was founded. Can it be trusted not to ever use nuclear weapons?

re Kalharee #48

``The country where the national slogan is “Marge-ba-Amrika” (death to America) should be bombed the hell out of. Why don’t they say Marge-ba-Iraq or Marge-ba-Wahaibis who killed over a million Iranians not too long ago? Iran wants to be the big bully in the region full of morons (bar Israel). Hope they wake up from this dream and face the music. They should concentrate on making carpets (which they are good at) before they are carpet bombed by Israel.````

hey amrica ka pituu, If you realy know the circumtances could you tell us who Wahaibis are? Some people really don`t know history? I am beginning to understand your problem don`t worry you`ll get your visa.

#51 salim

Thanks to the enthusiam shown by osama and co. the developed world is very apprehensive of nuclear states mushrooming around the globe.

india and pak, i guess were fortunate enough to get slapped by sanctions only by u.s.

now the scenario is such that even if the peaceful and white finland were to acquire nukes, the ``haves`` would go against it. or would it? i think so.

also, the nation which openly supported a militant group involved in massacres and has declared annihilation of israel as its birth-right doesn`t make anyone happy about it aquiring nukes.

the sad part is, only the powerful states ``haves`` write the law and theres no much the ``haves-not`` can do about it.

Re # 52

Poochie, Wahabis financed Iraq-Iran War.. all the ammu to Iraq was unloaded at Saudi Eastern ports (you probably wouldn’t know where that is until you take your head out of your molvi’s ass), and Iran has always expressed disdain for the Saudi Wahaibs for oppression of Shias in the Eastern Part of Saudi Arabia. Now go back and put your head back where it was. Good boy.

infact the iranians and the taliban were heading for a showdown.

Two assertions have been made here and it would be a good idea to address them.
1. President Ahmadinejad’s remarks about Israel
2. A comment about Noora Kushti or feeding frenzy between the US and Iran

President Ahmadinejad remarks about Israel. He is not a lunatic or making some off the cuff comments. We may differ with the Islamic ideology but Iranians have vast experience in managing and running their country. Strategically, politically and diplomatically Iranians are far smarter than any country in that region. Iranians have a rich culture and barring a short period of time in their history, they have always been able to maintain sovereign and independent governments in Iran for more than 4000 years. The change of ideology does not change the habits and culture of a country.

Even today, with a hostile US breathing down their neck for the last 28 years, they have been able to maintain some strong relations with different countries in the world and still have enough clout to make it difficult for the US or make the US think twice before any knee jerk reaction about any issue. There are huge differences in Iraq and Iran situation. Iran is a much more powerful country with more population and military strength to be taken lightly by anyone. The US knows that and would not venture in there without months of preparations.

What Ahmadinejad said was with full knowledge and approval of the Iran foreign ministry.

Presidents of any country never talk or issue statements without clearance form the foreign ministries first. Every policy statement or a radical statement goes thru a process. Iranians are astute diplomats and would not allow Ahmadinejad to say something ridiculous until they have some purpose behind it.

There is an audience for his remark in the ME and in Eastern Europe. There are many people in the world that have said exactly the same things that Ahmadinejad said. His remarks have a context and a purpose. There is no reason to call him lunatic or crazy because he made some political statements.

Second issue: #34 masadi comments, “ To me it seems like a classic, ``you scratch my back I scratch yours`` scenario. The US gets to keep a perpetual threat in that region alive now that Iraq has turned sour, while Iran gets to feed off of the US doing its bidding and sending that bank robber Ahmad Chalabi to visit with the Iranian elite time and again. Something smells awful in this ``love/hate`` relationship between Iran and the US.”

This is a plausible scenario. If the Iranian threat is removed, Israel becomes just another country in the ME. With Iraq gone and Iran threat taken care of Israel’s strategic position would take a nose dive immediately. Contrary to Some suggestions, it is the US which has more control over Israel than vice versa. Jewish lobby firms have clout as long as they are allowed to have that.

If there is no Iran, who would the US have to boot around? Anti Americanism helps the Mullah internally too.

Hp:

``There is an audience for his remark in the ME and in Eastern Europe. There are many people in the world that have said exactly the same things that Ahmadinejad said. ``

eastern europe? isn`t this the ``new europe``. I understand about ME but who are these people in eastern europe who want to dump the jews into the mediterranean? also people in ME may want to throw the jews out but their gov. can`t even think about uttering such words except for maybe syria.

i think his remarks were for domestic consumption.

Re # 56

>>>>Presidents of any country never talk or issue statements without clearance form the foreign ministries first. Every policy statement or a radical statement goes thru a process.<<<<

HP Sahib, I would like to know who in the Foreign Office gave Mushy the go ahead to ridicule MukhtaraN Mai and other rape victims in an interview to the Washington Post?

58/kul

That muat be Mushy`s own idea - the guy yaps a lot and is in love with his own voice ....... I don`t think anybody in paki foreign office would be that stupid.... but then, who knows.....

Kulharee,

I made a distinction between ``policy and radical`` statement. Mukhtarian bai comments were not ``policy`` statements. But Mushy`s comments about India and Kashmir are always cleared by the foreign Ministry.

Neti,

New Europe in Rummy’s book. I am talking about some eastern European countries that still have biases against the Jews. I think my reference is clear and your guess about the ME is right too, their govts may not, but people can.

#60 hp:

i have met eastern europeans who have anti-jew biases, but they are fine with jews leaving for israel/america. but at the same time they really don`t care about kicking them out of israel for palestanians nor do they cheer when hamas bombs them.

No.50 Netizen
Enclosed please find some official statements and policy initiatives expressed by various Israeli officials.


Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz has hinted Israel is preparing for military action to stop Iran`s nuclear program, but says international diplomacy must be the first course of action.

``Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches.`` Ariel Sharon

In 1998, the Sunday Times reported that Israel, using research obtained from South Africa, was developing an ``ethno bomb; ``In developing their ``ethno-bomb``, Israeli scientists are trying to exploit medical advances by identifying distinctive a gene carried by some Arabs, then create a genetically modified bacterium or virus... The scientists are trying to engineer deadly micro-organisms that attack only those bearing the distinctive genes.`` Dedi Zucker, a leftist Member of Knesset, the Israeli parliament, denounced the research saying, ``Morally, based on our history, and our tradition and our experience, such a weapon is monstrous and should be denied.``


In 1983 Sharon proposed to India that it join with Israel to attack Pakistani nuclear facilities; in the late 70s he proposed sending Israeli paratroopers to Tehran to prop up the Shah; and in 1982 he called for expanding Israel`s security influence to stretch from ``Mauritania to Afghanistan

Rabin told Israel’s Knesset (parliament) in 1993 that Israel’s “struggle against murderous Islamic terror” was “meant to awaken the world which is lying in slumber” of the dangers of Shi’a fundamentalism. “Death is at our doorstep”, Rabin said of Iran – though he only five years earlier dismissed Iran’s rhetoric as inconsequential.

Mossad head: Nuclear Iran is worst-ever threat to Israel,`` Haaretz, November 17, 2003, .

Ross Dunn, ``Israel threatens strikes on Iranian nuclear targets,`` The Scotsman, November 23, 2003, .

``Israel ready to launch preemptive strike on nuclear sites in Iran,`` AFP, 11 October 2003, .

#62 by rf786 on January 23, 2006 11:51am PT

Here`s the reality...The predominant world order considers Iran a threat..you can choose to ignore that world order and go it yourself..then you`ll be like North Korea.. or you can choose to live with the predominant world order..

The predominant world order considers Iranian nukes a threat and doesn`t consider ISraeli nukes a threat...Is that fair? Maybe not...but is the US bombing Paki territory or forcing AQ Khan into house arrest fair to most pakis..surely not..yet you have no choice but to live with it because you choose to live with the predominant world order..

in short...life`s not fair..if the west says Iranian nukes are a threat and you choose to live in a system dominated by the west, you have no choice but to accept that..

It’s really interesting that One and a Half Million (1,500,000) Iranians (including thousands upon thousands of kids 14 and under) were killed (a lot of them gassed) by fellow Muslims, and now all of them are wishing for Iran to acquire nukes? Are you out of your tiny little minds? Do you think that Iranians have forgotten the rotten eggs that were served to them by the Islamic world at large? Hello people. Please wake up.

The only thing that unites muslims is hatred.

Arjun No. 63
True, this is a unipolar world and odds are stacked against Iran. But that should`nt prevent us (the masses) from voicing our dissent or presenting counter balancing arguements.

I disagree on accepting harsh realities as the fiat accomplie, realpolitike maybe the only choice for states, but civil society has a responsibility to express its views based on universal principles of fairness and equality.

Netizen #53, {``the sad part is, only the powerful states ``haves`` write the law and theres no much the ``haves-not`` can do about it. ``}

Netti,
Thanks for being so honest. Yes, the west, especially the US, is very apprehensive about any country, friend or foe, all except Israel of course, acquiring nuclear technology. But to be fair, for a long time after WWII, it was the US using subtle blackmail about using the ``hydorgen`` bomb against adversaries from Korea to Vietnam. I do agree with your ``LaaThi and Bhains`` principle.

#62 rf786:

Israels hostility to anything threatening itself is very well known.

Sharon himself (just days before his stroke) had declared that his neighbourhood is a very dangerous place and to survive they need to be ready for any eventuality.

Israel is a threat to iran`s nukes not to iran itself. they are not thinking of throwing iranis into caspian or persian gulf. do you think a 6 million naiton will subjugate 60 million iranians? They havn`t even acquired any iranian land and don`t want to. but they do percieve iranian nukes as a threat to their existence. and its no brainer why iran wants a nuke.

so did mention about a left-inclined Knesset member who objected to israels ethno-bomb activity. do you think the mullah-gatekeeper would allow any person, who doesn`t hold similar views as him, into the Majlis? thats why you have a person like Ahmad at the helm of affirs. hearing him, lalu seems atleast 10 times better.

regarding pak, may be mossad already had a thick file on the father of paki nuclear bomb. and if 9/11 would not have focussed khans ``charitable`` activities, may be in a decade there would been a dozen islamic nations wielding nuclear bombs. this aspect may have been a welcome change for muslims in general, but not to the developed world.
also, initially it was also regarded as an ``islamic`` bomb whatever it meant.

even now i am pretty sure, some one has a blueprint of how to nuetralise paks nuclear asset, in case mushy is blown to bits.

#65 rf786

``True, this is a unipolar world and odds are stacked against Iran. But that should`nt prevent us (the masses) from voicing our dissent or presenting counter balancing arguements. ``

no one wants iran to make nukes.

the most people want is instead of referring to UNSC, it should be resolved outside it, maybe IAEA.

as i said earlier may be iran will take russias services to enrich uranium outside iran.

or it will end like saddam, who inspite of not having any weapons kept on delaying the entry of inspectors thereby playing into the hands of bush.

nice article

kashkin

i was listening to some program on radio about irani bum, and the talking heads from washington think-tanks were of the view that
1. iranis are far far away from any real-threat bum(s)
2. they want to get an enrichment cycle going for the sake of pride
3. given 1 and 2, they would be ``allowed`` to do it, with more observers IETA etc..keep feet on the street. a nice enrichment cycle does not hurt anyone, as far as it makes a few grams a year was the view.
4. israel is down with 1-3, but still may make noise.
5. all ``sunni`` neighbor countries (KSA, emirates, turks, azeris, khurds..) are scared of irani regime
6. most iranis (in and out of the country) want nuke tech but not necessarily nuke bums

basically the claim was as far as iran allows inspection regime, they will be ``allowed`` some nuke tech. they will be offcourse be sent the second-strike plans etc..

Taqdeer ke qazi ka yeh fatwa hai azal se
Hai jurm-e-zaifi ki saza marg-e-mafajat

I guess Iran is trying to break the ``zaifi`` by making the BOOOM, atomic that is.

Asfand Siddiqui

Some idiot on this forum said that Paki ``mizaile`` are liquid fuel based and probably obsolete. Well just check the web ``shite`` called

http://www.missilethreat.com

And educate yourself. India has more liquid fuel based missile systems than Pakiland. Russian technology is dying buddy. Wake up and try to get chinese weapons or just come to uncle sam and get the goodies by selling the left over dhotis.

India
Agni 1 Solid/Liquid
Agni 1A Solid
Agni 2 Solid
Agni 3 Solid/Liquid

Dhanush Liquid

Pirthivi 1 Liquid
Pirthivi 2 Liquid
Pirthivi 3 Liquid

Suriya Solid/Liquid



Pakistan
Ghauri Liquid
Hatf 1 Solid
Hatf 2 Solid
Hatf 2A Solid
Hatf 3 Solid
Hatf 4 Solid
Hatf 5 Liquid
Hatf 5A Liquid
Hatf 6 Solid

Asfand Siddiqui

#65 ``based on universal principles of fairness and equality. ``

we are not talking ghulab jaman where everyone needs a fair share in the interests of fairness and equality. we are talking bombs, or bums as jang puts it!! wake up and smell the coffee. what earthly need do the iranian mullahs have for the bum? the mullahs callousness towards human life is well proven by the 10 year iran-iraq war where they fought like a bunch of incompetents, achieving nothing but killing a million ``soldiers of islam`` (read: fools) on both sides. in pakistan, qazi hussain ahmed was openly wondering after 1998 what good a bum is if you dont use it!! and you are talking about giving these nuts the bum in the interests of fairness and equality!!

you talk about civil society?? then talk about getting the world free of bums, not adding more to them.

Naqshbandi: you write ``It was only a matter of time before they came after Iran. `

after 7 years on chowk, you are as stupid as the first day you came. and still living in the west (the sinister ``they`` above) , while pining for iran where they would kick your naqshbandi ass from tehran to zahedan if you ever chose to go an live there!!

re:#39 by masadi
Masadi dude,
I told u already how to get hard facts.
Don`t pester others about hard facts anymore.
Sridhar

re:#40 by behram1
I wont answer your post but thanks for a courteous post (probably the first) where u did not humilate me or humiliate my religion/culture.
Sridhar

re: Beharam`s various posts
I think Chowk staff should take note of Behram`s obscene posts. The guy is sick minded. If he continues, some of us may have no reason to visit this site. That would be chowk`s loss.
Sridhar

Ref:#77 by rsridhar on January 23, 2006 5:33pm PT
{If he continues, some of us may have no reason to visit this site. That would be chowk`s loss.} No, actually it will be chowk`s gain. Pakistanis want to have some civilized discussion and disagreements. It is you who have attacked me first and have done constantly. You must acknowledge that.

Ref: #76 by rsridhar on January 23, 2006 5:20pm PT
{I wont answer your post but thanks for a courteous post (probably the first) where u did not humilate me or humiliate my religion/culture.} Once again, it is you who have constantly attacked Islam and muslims. Once, you understood that I am not a muslim, you