Islam, Marathons and Choice

I think tht th marathon of women is allowed in proper dresses in closed ways where there is no chance of a men to see women due to sexual attraction between men & women which so much dangerous then not doing marathons. Islam wants a peacful & clean environment.

Extract from Country Report for 2005:

Ahmadis, who number three-four million in Pakistan, are prevented by law from engaging in the full practice of their faith. The Constitution of Pakistan declares members of the Ahmadi religious community to be “non-Muslims,” despite their insistence to the contrary. Barred by law from “posing” as Muslims, Ahmadis may not call their places of worship “mosques,” worship in non-Ahmadi mosques or public prayer rooms which are otherwise open to all Muslims, perform the Muslim call to prayer, use the traditional Islamic greeting in public, publicly quote from the Koran, or display the basic affirmation of the Muslim faith. It is also illegal for Ahmadis to preach in public, to seek converts, or to produce, publish, and disseminate their religious materials. Ahmadis have been arrested and imprisoned for terms of up to three years for all of the above acts, and they are reportedly subject to ill treatment from prison authorities and fellow prisoners. Because they are required to register to vote as non-Muslims, a policy that was reaffirmed by Pakistani government officials in February 2004, Ahmadis who refuse to disavow their claim to being Muslims are effectively disenfranchised. The one potentially positive development, the December 2004 abolition of the religion column in Pakistani passports, thereby, among other advances, enabling Ahmadis to participate in the hajj, was derailed the following March, when members of a government ministerial committee decided to restore the column. The decision reportedly came after religious parties demonstrated against the change. There continues to be no indication that the current government intends to institute any reforms to the anti-Ahmadi laws.

Prescribed penalties for blasphemy include death for whoever “defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad” and life imprisonment for whoever “willfully defiles, damages, or desecrates a copy of the holy Koran.” Blasphemy allegations, which are often false, result in the lengthy detention of, and sometimes violence against, Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus, and members of other religious minorities, as well as Muslims on account of their religious beliefs. The negative impact of the blasphemy laws is further compounded by the lack of due process involved in these proceedings. In addition, during blasphemy trials, Islamic militants often pack the courtroom and make public threats about the consequences of an acquittal. Such threats have proven credible, since they have sometimes been followed by violence. Although no one has yet been executed by the state under the blasphemy laws, some persons have been sentenced to death. Several accused under the blasphemy laws have been attacked, even killed, by vigilantes, including while in police custody; those who escape official punishment or vigilante attack are sometimes forced to flee the country. Others have died in police custody under allegedly suspicious circumstances. In December 2004, an Ahmadi was given a life sentence and a heavy fine for purported blasphemous statements. In January 2005, a Christian was acquitted of blasphemy charges; however, he remains in hiding due to death threats from extremists. Following an abortive attempt in 2000 at introducing procedural reforms, the Musharraf government has made no further effort to reform, much less repeal, the blasphemy laws. Although they were amended in October 2004 with the aim of reducing the more maliciously applied charges, the procedural changes called for will not likely have a significant affect on the way the blasphemy laws are exploited in Pakistan.

Salim (#63):

I appreciate your kind comments. But let’s not be sad. Life can be a struggle of sorts at times. Some battles are won, some are lost … and the rest is history. I am certain that over time truth will prevail over oppression, compassion over hatred, and patience over fanaticism.

As Ahmadi-Muslims (as well as I at a personal level) our love and loyalties remain with people of Pakistan. Rather, we remain committed to bringing about peace, harmony, and prosperity to the entire mankind, regardless of people’s beliefs, ethnicity, or any other distinction. A day will come when the people of Pakistan as a whole will embrace their Ahmadi brothers … and hatred and propaganda will yield to mutual affection and love. So we have to keep trying ... and Allah Almighty will do His part as He sees fit.

No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side
by side with you. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against
humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of their houses
as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable conditions
in which our women have to live. You should take your women along with you
as comrades in every sphere of life.``


-- Mohammad Ali Jinnah (Founder of Pakistan)

This is Ajeya.

As most of you have probably noticed, ALL my posts are being filtered.

There cannot be ANY basis for filtering ALL my posts, since irrelevent and offensive posts are abundant on this website - starting with Behram. The other point, of course, is that ALL my posts are in RESPONSE to other posts.


This is a good illustration of why democracy will NEVER come to ANY Islamic country (Turkey, for example, is not a true democracy).

This is a low-class site with pseudo-intellectuals like Mantolives spouting endless garbage about topics like an ISlamic, Secular, and Modern Pakistan. Talk about contradictions!

The editor, of course, takes the cake - left wing radical Islamic nutcase with a zero talent in English writing skills.

Anyway, carry on your endless garbage.

And Arjun, carry on the good work!

Goodbye

Sattar2 #61 {`` It is ironic that while you consider yourself a Muslim and me a non-Muslim, you want me, an alleged kaffir, to first follow the spirit of Hudabiyyah. Where is your spirit of Islam … ? I wonder …

- Furthermore, if you pay attention you’ll realize that in some ways Ahmadis are already following the Hudabiyyah example. By signing the Hudabiyyah Treaty Muhammad (pbuh) did not accept that he was not a prophet of Allah. Similarly, signing the passport form does not make Ahmadis non-Muslims. Neither does the constitution matter in that regard. It is forced upon Ahmadis … who have amicably agreed … just like the Prophet (pbuh) amicably agreed to Hudabiyyah. Do you see the parallels? ``}


Sattar Sahib,
It saddens me that you have to defend yourself against the stupid passport form and an asinine constitution. Just remember that it was against the law in Alabama for a colored person to drink from a white fountain and attend a white church or sit in the front section of the bus. Sometimes ``the law is an ass.`` I think your attempt to use the Prophet`s (PBUH) example was very noble. Unfortunately, the government of Pakistan is not as noble as you.
My sincere apologies to you and all our Ahmedi brothers for this great injustice brought upon you by the Paki Punjoo PainDoos. If they treat their own Punjabi brethren like this, I am not surprised at their killings of Mohajirs in Karachi and bombing of Baluchis in Baluchistan. Please don`t lose hope. To me you and most Ahmedis are more Muslim than almost all the Mullahs, all the Wahaabis, and most so-called Muslims. Good luck, brother.

Ref Mantolives #60

[``Sher-e-Bangla`` Maulvi Fazlul Haq and Sir Sikandar Hayat were naughty boys of Bengal and Punjab ... who had often broken ranks with the Muslim League... they both moved the resolution...]

With the result reasonably corresponding to their daily attempts at moving their bowels!

Urstruly,

Some afterthoughts on your post #57 …

- It is ironic that while you consider yourself a Muslim and me a non-Muslim, you want me, an alleged kaffir, to first follow the spirit of Hudabiyyah. Where is your spirit of Islam … ? I wonder …

- Furthermore, if you pay attention you’ll realize that in some ways Ahmadis are already following the Hudabiyyah example. By signing the Hudabiyyah Treaty Muhammad (pbuh) did not accept that he was not a prophet of Allah. Similarly, signing the passport form does not make Ahmadis non-Muslims. Neither does the constitution matter in that regard. It is forced upon Ahmadis … who have amicably agreed … just like the Prophet (pbuh) amicably agreed to Hudabiyyah. Do you see the parallels?

- Regarding Hudabiyyah you wrote that … ”Agreeing to this term was tentamount to accepting that Mohammad (pbuh) was not the Prophet of God …”.

Quran calls Muhammad (pbuh) a Prophet of Allah. And being truthful to Allah and his mission, he never compromised on this claim. You are suggesting that Prophet (pbuh) accepted that he was not a prophet of Allah. Are you in your senses … or have you totally lost it?

- Look … all I am asking is that violence against Ahamdis (and everyone else) should be stopped. Is that too much to ask for? You can call me whatever you want … and that’s alright. But must you condone Ahmadis being abused and attacked for their faith? Is this what Islam teaches you?

Urstruly...

Are you suggesting that you, an ignorant mullah of the Maududi kind, knew better than Jinnah who chose the man as his trusted lieutenant?

Zafrullah Chaudhry was an indefatigable crusader for Pakistan and then its status in the world... Arabs, especially Palestinians, worshipped him as the great voice of Arab world... the fact that you are so utterly and shamelessly bigoted and closedminded as to deny his role ... shows that people like you and your daddy General Zia ul Haq (the murderer of freedom fighters) are not just the enemies of Pakistan but enemies of all Muslims - despite your claims to the contrary... you are like Abdullah Bin Sabah... you are like the idiotic, ignorant and fanatical Deobandi Mullahs who stabbed us in the back... and don`t give me sh-it about you suffering under Zia-ul-Haq... you were probably on all fours... and that is not ``suffering``.

And your ignorance of history compares to your rather mediocre exposition in the English language...

``Sher-e-Bangla`` Maulvi Fazlul Haq and Sir Sikandar Hayat were naughty boys of Bengal and Punjab ... who had often broken ranks with the Muslim League... they both moved the resolution for your information... they did not ``author`` it.

As for Pakistani textbooks... I haven`t seen it being stated any other way.

Urstruly,

Even as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) agreed to Hudabiyyah Treaty, he did not stop calling himself the Prophet of Allah. The point was that … if the Meccan enemy did not consider him a prophet of Allah, that was their choice.

Similarly, you can call us whatever you want … that’s your choice. Ahmadis consider themselves Muslims … and will continue to do so.

Fair enough?

Ahmadis are not looking to be accepted as “Muslims” by you. You’ve got it all wrong. We only wish that violence directed at Ahamdis … men, women, children … their homes and businesses … should be stopped.

Even after the Hudabiyyah treaty was agree to, Meccan enemy continued to engage in hostilities against the dear Prophet (pbuh) and his followers. Similarly, despite claiming that Islam is a religion of peace, your mullahs continue to engage in violence and fanaticism against Ahmadis.

Do you see the parallels? Now that’s the spirit …

Re: # 57

That`s the spirit. The spirit of reconcilliation, that is. Since you have invoked Hudaibiya Pact as an example for the price of peace, I suggest that you set an example by acting on it first. In the name of greater good of your people and others, one thing you can do is to stop calling yourselves as ``Muslims`` and just present yourselves as Quadiani. After all, in Hudaibiya Pact the first objection that Kuffar of Mecca had was that the the verbiage of the pact should be changed from ``This pact is between Meccans and Mohmmad (pbuh) The Prohet of God`` to just ``This pact is between Meccans and Mohammad (pbuh)``. Agreeing to this term was tentamount to accepting that Mohammad (pbuh) was not the Prophet of God. This sort of denied the whole 15 years of struggle by Prophet (pbuh) and the sacrifices that his companions made during that period. But for the greater good and peace Prophet (pbuh) accepted this condition despite vocal protest from his companions.

Similarly, I must re-iterate it for the thousandth time that Muslims in Pakistan and all around world have absolutely no problem with the Quadiani dogma, as long as they do not present it as Islam and do not call themselves Muslims. I don`t think it is that hard to understand - Islam is that religion which Allah has revealed to Muslims thru Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Any other thing is a new religion.

Urstruly,

I glanced through the web-site the link to which you posted. I am not sure why you refer to it as a “quadiyani hate website”. It documents persecution of Ahmadis and provides some historic details in the context of partition of India … without being hateful or malicious. So I am not sure why it is ticking you off …

Ahmadis have adopted proper methods in dealing with persecution … and I say this as an Ahmadi-Muslim myself. They have placed their trust in Allah Almighty and the message of Quran … and have refused to counter violence with violence, hatred with hatred.

Worldwide Muslim population can learn from this. Dear Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) adopted similar methods when dealing with hatred and violent persecution at the hands of enemies. He migrated from Mecca (the holiest of all places) as was appropriate and did not hesitate to make peace with the enemy, even at most humiliating terms (Hudabiyyah Treaty). Through piety, patience, and dignity … and was able to win over the most bitter enemies of his time.

Worldwide Muslim community of this day has been wronged by other nations and political powers … I agree. But they have wronged themselves, first and foremost, due to internal conflicts, fanaticism, and corruption. The culture of hatred and fanaticism they have nourished over centuries has finally come full circle.

For someone with common sense and sincerity, it is easy to see why Islam (and all other religions) emphasize faith, peace, and perseverance over violence and fanaticism. I fail to see your point … and I guess you fail to see mine. But the difference is that ... while you want to throw me in prison for pretending to be a Muslim, I pray that you and others like you see the light. And this difference in the way we think separates us ...

This quadiyani hate website contends that Zafarullah khan was ONLY asked to look into the Lahore Resolution, assuming that he would opine due to his legal background.

http://www.thepersecution.org/50years/march23.html

I thought, sher-e-bangal Moulvi Fazl-e-Haq was the one who prepared the draft Lahore Resolution. I guess Pakistani text books have been feeding another lie to people of Pakistan since forever. Right?

sattar2..

Urstruly and his ilk are enemies of Pakistan ...

Sir Zafrullah Khan, god bless is soul, was the author of the Lahore Resolution.... infact the Jamaat-Ahmadiya was the first Muslim body in pre-partition India to conduct the geographical survey...

Jinnah trusted Zafrullah Khan more than anyone else in that cabinet... Zafrullah Khan alone understood the Quaid`s world view and effectively echoed it in the UN...

F Zamanov

life is about moderation

re: sattar # 47

49.5% and 50.5% with ahmedis counted as Muslims! The way we never hear the end of the Gurdaspur story and no child is left ignorant of the great injustice perpetrated by the British, one would have expected the Muslim population to be much closer to 90%.

Inshallah,

may your wish come true.

Brother Zamanov:

Girls from even conservative NWFP are taking to sports. The recent example is from women squash team.

Re #45 Bina....Shhhh you are not supposed to give out state secrets :) My presence here is linked via a complex web to the natural gas deal between the great states of Russia and Pakistan.
Amen to your prayer...I will give her every opportunity to fulfill any athletic ambitions....

InspirEx and Chauhan, thank you for your appreciation of what I was trying to say.

Manto, Sattar2,
Yes, the logic that the Mullahs have used with the Ahmedis is quite comical, only if the reality wasn`t so tragic. Thank you for validating the point. The reason I get so upset with the treatment given to Ahmedis is that one day, these Mullahs will do the same thing to others - Shias, Ismailis, yes even Hanafis. Finally, there will be two mullahs left and the one with the longer beard will win. :)

Yasser, Salim,

That’s a fine point regarding the Gurdaspur issue …

If I recall correctly, according to Munir Report population of Gurdaspur was split between Muslims and non-Muslims by a margin of 1%. This suggests that Muslims were 50.5% and non-Muslims were 49.5%. I was left with the impression that Ahamdis were counted as Muslims here.

Furthermore, Qadian was one of the 3 bigger towns in Gurdaspur. If Ahmadis are declared non-Muslims, Gurdaspur population-split very likely tilts in favor of non-Muslims.

Mullahs declare Ahmadis non-Muslims, but also claim that Gurdaspur should have been a part of Pakistan. Yes … heads - we win, tails - you lose.

Ironically, last time Urstruly weighed in on this debate, he claimed that population of Gurdaspur was 80% Muslim ... and that Zafrullah Khan conspired with the British to give Gurdaspur to India. When asked to validate his claim, he admitted to cooking up the 80% statistic.

Such is the sad state of mullahs of our times …

``Some of these Pakis are hilarious - ``Heads we win, tails you lose.`` Gurdaspur should have been part of Pakistan because the Qadianis were Muslims until 1974. :) Abdus Salaam was a Muslim when the discussion is about Nobel Prizes, but not a Muslim when it comes to his faith. I wonder if Pakistan would have returned Gurdaspur to India in 1974, after declaring the Ahmedis to be non-Muslims. LOL``

Excellent point... a point I have made several times.

yeah, zamanov, you russian, you!
LOL
Nice to see you up here. Hope your daughter is an Olympian athlete one day!

Zamanov:
Great article.

I just wish people in this country stop playing the roles of the custodians of everyones faith and do bear in mind that eventually, one is responsible for his/her own actions.

The other day i ran into a rickshaw driver who who was apparently reciting verses on a rosary, but behind his rickshaw, he had the traffic held up.

lost in his worship, the gentleman picked a fight with an individual asked him to move his rickshaw.

Whither patience, whiter understanding people troubles, whither the spirit of helping people.

All in the name of Islam, these and many more continue to forget that the ones around us, have been declared as beings of ``greater importance`` in the eyes of Allah Himself, in the Holy Qur`an.

What good is prayer when you keep people in pain while observing it?
What good is preaching (tabligh) when your only justifications are to denigrate the members of other religions and / or sects?

There is so much more to say...

...those who are making a big deal out of women running a marathon, i have only one thing to say, Get a Life people!!

Zamanov,
Wonderful article. I think that the fanatics would say that there is nothing wrong with females running a marathon as long as they are appropriately dressed and covered up. To them, the appropriate dress would be a ``shuttle cock`` burqa with vents for effective air-cooling. The more moderate extremists (LOL) may accede to a hijab-clad female with loose sweat pants and heavy shirt that can trap enough air to launch the poor athelete into the air. If Muslim women have to overcome such hurdles, they are bound to become the toughest competitors in every sport. It`s similar to the batter in baseball practicing with two bats in the circle and then using only one while in the batter`s box. I think the more important task is to remove the cotton hijabs from the Mullah`s ears first and pump some grey matter into the empty space.

Hamzad #1 {``Yes, we had a Qadyaani agent-scientist named Abdus Salaam who won the Olympic medal in Physics. We told him either its Pakistan or Qaadiyaan? He said Qaadiyaan. We told him to take a hike and take his Olympic medal with him. He died and lives in Jehannum now.``}

Kaka,
Some of these Pakis are hilarious - ``Heads we win, tails you lose.`` Gurdaspur should have been part of Pakistan because the Qadianis were Muslims until 1974. :) Abdus Salaam was a Muslim when the discussion is about Nobel Prizes, but not a Muslim when it comes to his faith. I wonder if Pakistan would have returned Gurdaspur to India in 1974, after declaring the Ahmedis to be non-Muslims. LOL

#14 atif2, {``Please admit yourself ASAP in some Reasoning 101 followed by Tolerance 101 class. Perhaps you can have some qadiyanis join that Tolerance class with you as well. Islam and the people of Pakistan can wait. We will be right here waiting for our ``reformer`` to come liberate us, once he has liberated himself of the hatred fed to him all through his life.``}

Atif2,
You are confirming your status as the Mad Sunni Mullah of Chowk. Also, with the above nonsense singling out Qadianis and a personal attack on Yasser`s esteemed father, you have demonstrated that you flunked BOTH Reasoning 101 and Tolerance 101. If only we could excommunicate the damned Wahabbis like you. :)

#16, Veeresh, {``Some top clerics of Pakistan are overjoyed to see the increasing numbers of veiled women spectators during the current Pakistan India cricket series and have called on all the female cricket fans to wear hijabs (veil covering the face except eyes) while watching next fixtures in the series. ``}

Veeresh,
If the Paki team ever plays as poorly as the Indian team, we Paki men will also wear hijabs at cricket matches. Until then, would you like to borrow some paper bags for your side?

Brother Zamanov,

Choice is always curtailed in public. Society always dictates a public morality. The question is, is the morality of a few being applied above and beyond the actual norms?

Note, this works either way.

Re: #32

ahsan8211, the Krgyz example was exactly to prove my point that you cannot single out Islam for what some people, who call themselves Muslims, do. There are `Muslims` in Pakistan who practice, Vani, karo-kari, nikah to Quran, and other such abhorrent acts and have their own justifications for them...The point is that such actions of a few people does not mean that everyone else should follow it. We need to oppose these acts because they are physically harmful for women and/or take away their basic human right of `CHOICE` in leading their lives.

To everyone who gave encouraging comments or constructive criticism, my sincere thanks. To those who refuse to give people with opposing viewpoints their space, you folks need to go colonize another planet because when you hold entire nations or religions hostage to your one-way or bigoted viewpoint you make us all look like idiots.

As I mentioned in my piece, my intent is not in any way to malign Islam or even your personal interpretation of what it means to you. I am just asking people to give some breathing room to another person`s alternate interpretation. I think one of the biggest problems with how Islam is disseminated to the people is this scary, fear-mongering saga of how we are all sinners and we will all be punished by God. How can a message based on the word ``peace`` and whose early proponents practiced love, kindness, honesty, and patience create so much fear in people? Why fear the Most Compassionate, the Most Forgiving, the Most Just and Almighty God?
I read the same Book and find a message of forgiveness, of no compulsion in religion and the inevitable fallibility of the human race. You follow certain principles and stay away from a certain number of things, and then pray that the rest of your actions are worthy of you entering the Promised Land. No where does it say that Maulana so and so is absolutely correct or Mr. X is the perfect translator and must be followed otherwise you are destined to hell for eternity.
So my fellow compatriots, who take a more conservative view of the word of God (which you have every right to), please allow the rest of the people the courtesy of their own interpretation. There should be no force involved in making someone agree with your interpretation as long as no physical harm is being perpetrated. Why waste so much national energy on the nuances of who can run and who cannot? Doesn`t this country have so many other pressing problems that we can help resolve? Let everyone seek their own nirvana/Promised Land/jannat.
May God show everyone the right path. May the best team win the current cricket test match :)

pakis are all fcuked up !

........ on our recent trip to the motherland we were stopped at a traffic light in islamabad, listening to some breezy girls on fm radio discussing the pros and cons of women smoking in american accented urdlish and trying to ignore the beggar banging on the window with his arm stump ........ while we stood at the red light, as others whizzed past honking their horns and giving us dirty looks, my daughter remarked:

``abu, pakistanis are so fucked up !`` ...........

``why ? just because they can`t differentiate between green and red ?``......

``no, no... that`s fine .... actually that is good; i wish we had so much freedom in michigan ..... i`am talking about these silly girls on the radio and the way some of the girls dress and act around here ......... did you see the blouse aali was wearing at dinner last night ?...... here i am, wearing loose fitting kurtas over my jeans to show deference to the local culture and here they are, flunting their bosoms in skimpy sweaters and shaking their butts in tight fitting jeans ...... and all this while their mothers are running around in hijabs and jilbabs and lecturing people on islam - don`t you see the dichotomy ?``............

`` ding, ding !... that`s a big word !... no i don`t see the dichotomy because, as you so astutely observed, we are all fucked up !``.............

`` does that mean it is okay for me to wear my kings of leon t-shirts instead of these silly kurtas that everyone insists giving me?...... how come their own daughters don`t wear this stuff ? .......you see a lot of girls in jinnah super wearing stuff that would simply kill the aunties in michigan `` ............

``sure, if you don`t mind being ogled``...........

``on second thought, forget it - the men in pakistan are like, like so creepy ...... a bunch of perverted lechers !`` ................

just then the dj put on a song by some obscure indie rock group and my daughter`s face lit up, ``this is so cool - they don`t play this kind of music even in michigan ........ pakistan rocks !``

............. yes, but it is still fucked up !

scout #33 - ``don`t know why you`re bent upon portraying manto as anti-Islam simply because he criticizes extremist views.....``

Scout, two things: I am not really ``bent upon`` it, and secondly manto does not just critcize extremists - he IS an extremist. I am all for the eradication of extremism from this world, whether it is from christians, jews or muslims.

I am simply doing my job of exposing a bigot for what he is: a tin pot bigot. It turns out that he feeds off of the most narrowminded interpretations of Islam. He then uses those narrowest of the interpretations to build his case against Islam. In fact, he would love for the interpretations to be as narrow as possible, otherwise it does not really suit his agenda of clubbing Islam till the cows come home. When I challenged him on his interpretation of adultery laws on unplugged, he claimed ``abuse`` and ran away from the board.

atif2,

don`t know why you`re bent upon portraying manto as anti-Islam simply because he criticizes extremist views.....

and in that vein, what do you think of the hudood ordinance and people fighting against it?

I have also seen the documentary about Kyrgyzstan on Public Television. The tradition that you mentioned there is not limited to Muslims in the region. This is common to all the people in that region. Please do not single out Islam in this case.

LAHORE MARATHON

Some pictures from the Lahore Marathon

F 2manoy,
nice reading .
why mulla is like this ?
press women down in every field goes back to many centuries.Prophet was the only person who gave high esteem to women and rest of his companion , from the begining were harsh to their wives and daughters.Mulla think such activities will make women confident .
why dont they not think of honor killing, marriage with Quarn and hudood ordinance.
They are satan.

ranjit,

Not just Muslim women but all Pakistani men and women (the first Pakistani was a christian- Waris Masih) all Indian men and women can also participate in Lahore Marathon... Last year some 50 or so Indians participated.

Thank you for your wishes.

Yasser

Re:manto#9

Manto, that was an impressive letter. Keep it up!!

Hope someday not just muslim women, but Indian women can also participate in the Lahore marathon.

And ignore fanatics like Atif2.

Harimau,

Well said...

The focus here, however, was Atif2`s lack of English comprehension.

What I pointed out in my response, that in Islam hardly anyone can be convicted of adultery given the stringent law of evidence- ``four pious Muslim men``

Apparently saying that equals an Ahmadi conspiracy against Islam.

Reaf Mantolives #24

[... have seen them up close and most Ahmadi pagans are as rigid as any of you Sunni pagans ... ]

Listen up, Yasser, dear boy: WE are the pagans. We are getting the party ready with a whole bunch of scantily-clad babes and lots and lots of beer and Scotch. Sunnis are NOT pagans and are definitely NOT invited to the party. Sunni women in burqas are NOT welcome either unless they come unaccompanied by their mehrem and are willing to shed their burqas upon arrival.

Zamanov. Not a real surname is it? Worried the MMA shall come knocking?

Atif2,

Seriously yaar- now you are losing it. Not everything is an Ahmadi conspiracy ...

Infact the criticism that I have levelled is the criticism I would level against the Ahmadi community even more vociferously. I have seen them up close and most Ahmadi pagans are as rigid as any of you Sunni pagans ...

I dont know what ``bites`` you refer to but yes my Islam consists of some sound bytes- equality, fraternity and justice.... Also, since your personal abuses have gotten out of hand, you`ve been on my ignore list on Unplugged... so if you want a response to any issue... please contact me here.

rsridhar,

Ofcourse I would mention minorities in that article.

re:#9 by Mantolives
Manto,
I am glad u did mention minorities in that letter. It would have been better if u had protested more transparently against the kidnapping and forced conversion of hindu women that has been happening in Pakistan and that has gained prominence oflate.
Sridhar

No reference:
It looks pindi express will indian team out of misery . Indian team has no chance again management failure of Indian captain.

This the best essay ever written on the intrinsic worth of taking Quran and Hadith out of muslim female’s undergarments. The next, and I must add overly due gesture, is form Muslim men to take their head out of Allah’s ass and realize that it doesn’t have to be written or sanctioned by Quran for females to compete in a road race.

Bipolar factoid junkie, this is how Pakistanis support their minorities:

http://dawn.com/2006/01/29/nat25.htm

Protest against arrest of minority leader

By Our Correspondent

SUKKUR, Jan 28: A large number of people belonging to the Hindu community and PPP activists took out separate protest processions here on Saturday following the arrest of Hindu Panchayat president Eshwar Lal in a theft case.

They raised slogans against police and the government.

Speaking on the occasion, their leaders condemned the arrest of Mr Lal in what they called a false theft case and demanded action against people concerned.

They warned to observe a shutter-down strike throughout the province if Mr Lal was not released in 24 hours.

Earlier, PPP activists, led by MNA Ramesh Lal, MPA Dr Nasrullah Baloch and others, staged a sit-in outside the press club for one hour against implication of Mr Lal in the case.

Speaking on the occasion, MPA Baloch termed the arrest of Eshwar Lal political victimization.

He said the government was trying to harass opposition parties’ leaders and workers through such actions. However, he made it clear that PPP workers and leaders were not afraid of such tactics.

He said the matter would be taken up in the Sindh Assembly.

#9 by Mantolives on January 29, 2006 6:07am PT
Marathon this year was an even greater success than last year... and many great Pakistani women athletes took to the stage... and will improve hopefuly with time.

Pakistan Zindabad!




http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C01%5C29%5Cstory_29-1-2006_pg7_18

January 29 — A red letter day for Modern Pakistan

By Yasser Latif Hamdani

Manto
Wonderful, your letter is master piece!!! Keep it up. We need writers like you.

Dear writer
F zamanov
Your article is an eye opener to all Mullahs. They are fanatics to the extreme, always suppressing Pakistani women for any healthy activity.

Let me introduce you to myself. I am a marathon runner myself. I used to be a sprinter, in school track team and i won so, many medals for being a very good athlete through out my school and college years. I ran so, many races. I am so, very proud runner.
Running gave me more self esteem, self confidence and of course improved my spiritual and physical health with more clear understanding of myself.

No matter what these fanatics say or do, all we have to do is, NOT to stop our women from taking part in any sports. Sports are not only healthy for our nation, but, they also show , how much we have talent to compete not only on national, but, on international level.

Don`t stop your daughter from palying cricket or running marathon.

Uh-oh, guess what the Binori guys want?

http://ww1.mid-day.com/news/world/2006/january/129619.htm

Female cricket fans to wear veils

Some top clerics of Pakistan are overjoyed to see the increasing numbers of veiled women spectators during the current Pakistan India cricket series and have called on all the female cricket fans to wear hijabs (veil covering the face except eyes) while watching next fixtures in the series.

“It shows our womenfolk are increasingly accepting the fundamental tenets of Islam, which is a positive development,” Mufti Mohammad Naeem, who runs one of some major Islamic seminaries, Jamia Binoria, in Karachi, told Sunday Mid Day.

+++

Now what about Bryan Adams?

#9 by Mantolives on January 29, 2006 6:07am PT

The 90s called..they want their bryan-adams-concert-novelty back..

manto # 12 ``the Al Huda fad, now receding mercifully after Farhat Hashmi’s allegedly forced departure to Canada, showed us how our understanding of Islam has completely gone haywire. ``


Dear Manto - Speaking of ``our understanding of Islam``, let me assert that your knowledge of Islam comprises of a collection of sound-bites and clever one-liners that have been fed to you by your ``father`s faith``. You bring up the basest of the basest interpretations of Islamic laws and the most spectacularly asinine incidents of your life in your discussions just so you can have a field day clubbing Islam till the cows come home. For example, in just your one article that you have posted in #9, you talk about religious people being ``against fashion shows``, your classmate converting his luxury car for jihad, newly religious females being ``nau so choohay kha kay billee...`` etc etc. Very simple, easily digestible matters that even a 5th grader will have an easy time parsing and debunking.

But when I challenged your hysterical belly laughter over your ``4 witness for adultery`` interpretations with a response that required some thinking (and knowledge) on your part, you ran away from the board like a fox from English hunters. Yet you have the audacity to come on FP and lecture us about ``how our understanding of Islam has completely gone haywire``!!

Please admit yourself ASAP in some Reasoning 101 followed by Tolerance 101 class. Perhaps you can have some qadiyanis join that Tolerance class with you as well. Islam and the people of Pakistan can wait. We will be right here waiting for our ``reformer`` to come liberate us, once he has liberated himself of the hatred fed to him all through his life.

Side note: I am all for women`s right to jog/exercise/walk/sit in the streets, just like men. It does not take a self styled ``reformer`` for people to know their rights.

yes Shandana -- Arjun is right...finally....:) -- Hamzad is on your side..

Dr Salam might have been given the choice of choosing between his faith and his country- but Dr Salam certainly did not allow others to dictate choices....

He continued to say he was a Pakistani very proudly till the very end.

arjun,

are you saying hamzaad was being sarcastic?!? i cant tell. his words sounded a lot like the offal spewed from the mouths of the mullahs holding forth on friday afternoons in my neighbourhood (i live between five mosques, and each one takes turns so the people around cant miss what they`re saying) and i know for a fact they aren`t being sarcastic. if he was, then countless apologies to him. and thank you for pointing it out, really, am very grateful, wouldn`t want to have false accusations or gross generalizations on my conscience.

``I would like to say a few things on the religious opposition to women`s participation in the Lahore marathon or any other healthy sporting activity. I lay no claim to liberal intellectualism or rigorous interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah. These words are just what I feel as a father who loves to play sports and would like his daughter to have the choice to do the same.``(Zamanov)

Zamanov the nice guy -- you are speaking too gently to the rabble rousing rouges like Fazoolurrahman (God`s reject) and to his his Fazool Followers doing their Fazooliats -- chasing marathon runner women of Pakistan like a bunch of yelping strays....

because ...these pathetic characters have nothing better to do.....

....the only running women they like are four of them running around their bearded beds....day and night

they don`t hear you......these schizophrenics only hear God whispering to them....in their rabbit ear antennas......go go -- go after the women -- sic`em in their heels.

and please don`t bring a marathon runner religion and its God as a referee into a mini marathon of Pakistani women in shalwars chased by hirsute canines in the streets of Islamabad...

...God is neither pro nor against the women cricket team either.....btw great gentle piece of column you wrote...

Marathon this year was an even greater success than last year... and many great Pakistani women athletes took to the stage... and will improve hopefuly with time.

Pakistan Zindabad!




http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C01%5C29%5Cstory_29-1-2006_pg7_18

January 29 — A red letter day for Modern Pakistan

By Yasser Latif Hamdani

Forgive me for being an eternal optimist, but I look forward to this Sunday as a Pakistani. Not only will Lahore once again organise a city marathon, which will hopefully show case Pakistan as a leading tourist and sporting destination, but Bryan Adams, the world-renowned rock star, will hold a mega concert in Karachi with our very own Shehzad Roy. For many countries in the world, these would not constitute major national events, but the story is different in Pakistan, or atleast the Pakistan that I grew up in after General Zia ul Haq’s military rule.

To be fair, they say that Pakistan was a different country before Zia, though very much Islamic, but being Islamic meant something entirely different from what it means now. Before General Zia-ul-Haq took over, to be Islamic meant to be just and fair, to believe in an egalitarian society, to live and let live and all that could be thought positive. It did not mean rituals, hijabs, beards, oppressive hudood laws and victimization of women and minorities. They say it was possible for good Muslims then to have a drink and show their moves on the dance floor without calling into question their loyalty to Islam.

All this changed with the coming of General Zia and the Afghan war. Islam since then has meant shia-sunni violence and jehad. The globalisation that took place in 1990s only fanned these feelings as now apart from the growing sectarian violence, Muslims also imagined themselves to be a global minority. With borders increasingly becoming meaningless, the security of a Muslim majority country was not enough. Thus loyalty to Pakistan was being eroded and replaced by a loyalty to a global jehad movement. And this seemed to affect all sections society and in fact the upper crust more than the rest. Back in high school in the mid 1990s, one of my classmates, a really rich spoilt brat, got a very expensive sports car as a present from his parents. He told me very seriously one day that he would modify it to go wage a jehad. I don’t know if it was a James Bond flick or real Islamist propaganda, but luckily he grew out of it and the car stayed as is.

Alongside the rise of this violent Islam, we have also seen increased conservatism in form of the Tablighi Jamaat- now officially an organisation with terror links on US-homeland security list. An aside: I shudder to think what would happen to our cricket team if the proposal to play India-Pakistan matches in the United States goes through. Interesting fellows these Tablighi jamaatwallahs are. One Ramzan afternoon, they came and bothered me about Islam. Their notions of Islam are very Post-Zia and certainly not what I believe Islam is. So naturally when I asked them what they had done as good Muslims for the material development of Pakistan and the Muslim world, they had no answers and these were LUMS students. One wonders why they feel so qualified to speak on Islam then?

For our ladies, of course, there was until recently Dr Farhat Hashmi and her Al Huda brigade. Many queens of the society pages suddenly went Hijabis come this millennium. It was almost as the saying goes ‘Nau sau chuhay khaa kay billi haj ko chali’ but jokes aside, the Al Huda fad, now receding mercifully after Farhat Hashmi’s allegedly forced departure to Canada, showed us how our understanding of Islam has completely gone haywire.

One must give credit where it’s due. Our Oligarch-in-chief President Musharraf, recently nominated the 17th worst dictator of 2005, has in some ways smashed Zia-ul-Haq’s legacy with his own social liberalism. The proliferation of private channels and state patronage of art and culture has made much of this irreversible. One remembers when Zafrullah Jamali tried to clamp down on fashion shows as “against Islam” our soldier statesman put him in his place. Last year’s marathon and now this year’s repeat- though one was apprehensive that this would be another one in Musharraf’s long list of one-time experiments such as the Daylight Saving Time- and also the return of international musicians of the stature of Bryan Adams to Pakistan is just one indication that maybe General Zia-ul-Haq’s 11 years are now finally behind us, even if our understanding of Islam has not reverted to pre-1977 or some would argue pre-1974 period.

This is not enough however. Musharraf must ensure that his is the last military intervention and from 2007 onwards Pakistan will become a constitutional democracy with stability and consistency and a smooth and regular transfer of power. He should ensure that the marginalised groups, the minorities and women are no longer marginalized but get a major chunk of the Pakistani political pie not just because it was one of the stated aims at the initiation of Pakistan and not just because the world now is increasingly intolerant of militarised theocracies and oligarchies, but because only a constitutional democratic path can ensure the continuity of a socially liberal welfare state which is truly, not ritually, Islamic and therefore just and egalitarian.

In the meantime, let us run the Lahore Marathon and listen to Bryan Adams for this is the red-letter day for a new, confident and modern Pakistan.

Look! Sania Mirza is a Muslim girl from India and a brilliant tennis player. People irrespective of their religious affiliation etc. go crazy watching her play. She looks pretty too in her pretty tennis shorts. So it is just an example how young people can succeed or do well in anything a man can do. So there is no need to to pray to Allah. If He had the power he would have prevented wars, famines , diseases, earth quakes and stupidity of humans.

So just encourage her to be outgoing and take interest in outdoor sports. It would give them self esteem and strength and everything.

The one of the problems is this stupid interpretation of religion.

Good to see you here.

``The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.`` : Psalm 14

I saw this advertised on a big board recently. This is the sort of misinformation EVERY religion pratices to brain wash minds. Could`nt young children become influenced by such loaded statements?

Why should`nt there be a `blasphemy` law for Atheists too?

I second your proposal.

Obscurantist ideas perpetuated by ancient patriachel socieities which have no bearing with religion are used to intimidate liberal minded ideas and the female population in general. May it be a simple marathon where women run wearing decent attire or play cricket, negative behaviour demonstrated by these telli-tubbies demonstrates their narrow minded, fetish vision of life. For them (Mullas) a five year old child begging in the streets is not considered to be ugly or repulsive, yet a healthy sport conjures evil ideas in their sick, demented minds.

Healthy societies require healthy minds, alas too much to eat can blur their vision, thus their opposition to any form of acitivity which leads to physical hardship.

#2 by shandana on January 29, 2006 1:13am PT

christ..did they take out your sarcasm bone with your appendix?

Best of luck to you.

thank you for this article. be prepared, however, for more like reply #1. people who hold extremist views cannot be swayed by arguments.

as a daughter, i admire and thank my own father for encouraging me to participate in the sports he played himself. i am sure your daughter feels the same about you

regards

Zamanov!!!

Are you a communist, atheist Russain? Why have you come to humiliate our faith and tradition? You surely are not a Muslim? State the kalima AND DON`T YOU GOOGLE IT, YOU ISRAELI AGENT!!

`If this female wins an Olympic medal or World Cup for her sporting achievement, should we disown her from our religion or country?`

Yes, we had a Qadyaani agent-scientist named Abdus Salaam who won the Olympic medal in Physics. We told him either its Pakistan or Qaadiyaan? He said Qaadiyaan. We told him to take a hike and take his Olympic medal with him. He died and lives in Jehannum now.