Islam, Marathons and Choice

Re #45 Bina....Shhhh you are not supposed to give out state secrets :) My presence here is linked via a complex web to the natural gas deal between the great states of Russia and Pakistan.
Amen to your prayer...I will give her every opportunity to fulfill any athletic ambitions....

InspirEx and Chauhan, thank you for your appreciation of what I was trying to say.

Brother Zamanov:

Girls from even conservative NWFP are taking to sports. The recent example is from women squash team.

Inshallah,

may your wish come true.

re: sattar # 47

49.5% and 50.5% with ahmedis counted as Muslims! The way we never hear the end of the Gurdaspur story and no child is left ignorant of the great injustice perpetrated by the British, one would have expected the Muslim population to be much closer to 90%.

F Zamanov

life is about moderation

sattar2..

Urstruly and his ilk are enemies of Pakistan ...

Sir Zafrullah Khan, god bless is soul, was the author of the Lahore Resolution.... infact the Jamaat-Ahmadiya was the first Muslim body in pre-partition India to conduct the geographical survey...

Jinnah trusted Zafrullah Khan more than anyone else in that cabinet... Zafrullah Khan alone understood the Quaid`s world view and effectively echoed it in the UN...

I thought, sher-e-bangal Moulvi Fazl-e-Haq was the one who prepared the draft Lahore Resolution. I guess Pakistani text books have been feeding another lie to people of Pakistan since forever. Right?

This quadiyani hate website contends that Zafarullah khan was ONLY asked to look into the Lahore Resolution, assuming that he would opine due to his legal background.

http://www.thepersecution.org/50years/march23.html

Urstruly,

I glanced through the web-site the link to which you posted. I am not sure why you refer to it as a “quadiyani hate website”. It documents persecution of Ahmadis and provides some historic details in the context of partition of India … without being hateful or malicious. So I am not sure why it is ticking you off …

Ahmadis have adopted proper methods in dealing with persecution … and I say this as an Ahmadi-Muslim myself. They have placed their trust in Allah Almighty and the message of Quran … and have refused to counter violence with violence, hatred with hatred.

Worldwide Muslim population can learn from this. Dear Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) adopted similar methods when dealing with hatred and violent persecution at the hands of enemies. He migrated from Mecca (the holiest of all places) as was appropriate and did not hesitate to make peace with the enemy, even at most humiliating terms (Hudabiyyah Treaty). Through piety, patience, and dignity … and was able to win over the most bitter enemies of his time.

Worldwide Muslim community of this day has been wronged by other nations and political powers … I agree. But they have wronged themselves, first and foremost, due to internal conflicts, fanaticism, and corruption. The culture of hatred and fanaticism they have nourished over centuries has finally come full circle.

For someone with common sense and sincerity, it is easy to see why Islam (and all other religions) emphasize faith, peace, and perseverance over violence and fanaticism. I fail to see your point … and I guess you fail to see mine. But the difference is that ... while you want to throw me in prison for pretending to be a Muslim, I pray that you and others like you see the light. And this difference in the way we think separates us ...

Re: # 57

That`s the spirit. The spirit of reconcilliation, that is. Since you have invoked Hudaibiya Pact as an example for the price of peace, I suggest that you set an example by acting on it first. In the name of greater good of your people and others, one thing you can do is to stop calling yourselves as ``Muslims`` and just present yourselves as Quadiani. After all, in Hudaibiya Pact the first objection that Kuffar of Mecca had was that the the verbiage of the pact should be changed from ``This pact is between Meccans and Mohmmad (pbuh) The Prohet of God`` to just ``This pact is between Meccans and Mohammad (pbuh)``. Agreeing to this term was tentamount to accepting that Mohammad (pbuh) was not the Prophet of God. This sort of denied the whole 15 years of struggle by Prophet (pbuh) and the sacrifices that his companions made during that period. But for the greater good and peace Prophet (pbuh) accepted this condition despite vocal protest from his companions.

Similarly, I must re-iterate it for the thousandth time that Muslims in Pakistan and all around world have absolutely no problem with the Quadiani dogma, as long as they do not present it as Islam and do not call themselves Muslims. I don`t think it is that hard to understand - Islam is that religion which Allah has revealed to Muslims thru Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Any other thing is a new religion.

Urstruly,

Even as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) agreed to Hudabiyyah Treaty, he did not stop calling himself the Prophet of Allah. The point was that … if the Meccan enemy did not consider him a prophet of Allah, that was their choice.

Similarly, you can call us whatever you want … that’s your choice. Ahmadis consider themselves Muslims … and will continue to do so.

Fair enough?

Ahmadis are not looking to be accepted as “Muslims” by you. You’ve got it all wrong. We only wish that violence directed at Ahamdis … men, women, children … their homes and businesses … should be stopped.

Even after the Hudabiyyah treaty was agree to, Meccan enemy continued to engage in hostilities against the dear Prophet (pbuh) and his followers. Similarly, despite claiming that Islam is a religion of peace, your mullahs continue to engage in violence and fanaticism against Ahmadis.

Do you see the parallels? Now that’s the spirit …

Urstruly...

Are you suggesting that you, an ignorant mullah of the Maududi kind, knew better than Jinnah who chose the man as his trusted lieutenant?

Zafrullah Chaudhry was an indefatigable crusader for Pakistan and then its status in the world... Arabs, especially Palestinians, worshipped him as the great voice of Arab world... the fact that you are so utterly and shamelessly bigoted and closedminded as to deny his role ... shows that people like you and your daddy General Zia ul Haq (the murderer of freedom fighters) are not just the enemies of Pakistan but enemies of all Muslims - despite your claims to the contrary... you are like Abdullah Bin Sabah... you are like the idiotic, ignorant and fanatical Deobandi Mullahs who stabbed us in the back... and don`t give me sh-it about you suffering under Zia-ul-Haq... you were probably on all fours... and that is not ``suffering``.

And your ignorance of history compares to your rather mediocre exposition in the English language...

``Sher-e-Bangla`` Maulvi Fazlul Haq and Sir Sikandar Hayat were naughty boys of Bengal and Punjab ... who had often broken ranks with the Muslim League... they both moved the resolution for your information... they did not ``author`` it.

As for Pakistani textbooks... I haven`t seen it being stated any other way.

Urstruly,

Some afterthoughts on your post #57 …

- It is ironic that while you consider yourself a Muslim and me a non-Muslim, you want me, an alleged kaffir, to first follow the spirit of Hudabiyyah. Where is your spirit of Islam … ? I wonder …

- Furthermore, if you pay attention you’ll realize that in some ways Ahmadis are already following the Hudabiyyah example. By signing the Hudabiyyah Treaty Muhammad (pbuh) did not accept that he was not a prophet of Allah. Similarly, signing the passport form does not make Ahmadis non-Muslims. Neither does the constitution matter in that regard. It is forced upon Ahmadis … who have amicably agreed … just like the Prophet (pbuh) amicably agreed to Hudabiyyah. Do you see the parallels?

- Regarding Hudabiyyah you wrote that … ”Agreeing to this term was tentamount to accepting that Mohammad (pbuh) was not the Prophet of God …”.

Quran calls Muhammad (pbuh) a Prophet of Allah. And being truthful to Allah and his mission, he never compromised on this claim. You are suggesting that Prophet (pbuh) accepted that he was not a prophet of Allah. Are you in your senses … or have you totally lost it?

- Look … all I am asking is that violence against Ahamdis (and everyone else) should be stopped. Is that too much to ask for? You can call me whatever you want … and that’s alright. But must you condone Ahmadis being abused and attacked for their faith? Is this what Islam teaches you?

Ref Mantolives #60

[``Sher-e-Bangla`` Maulvi Fazlul Haq and Sir Sikandar Hayat were naughty boys of Bengal and Punjab ... who had often broken ranks with the Muslim League... they both moved the resolution...]

With the result reasonably corresponding to their daily attempts at moving their bowels!

Sattar2 #61 {`` It is ironic that while you consider yourself a Muslim and me a non-Muslim, you want me, an alleged kaffir, to first follow the spirit of Hudabiyyah. Where is your spirit of Islam … ? I wonder …

- Furthermore, if you pay attention you’ll realize that in some ways Ahmadis are already following the Hudabiyyah example. By signing the Hudabiyyah Treaty Muhammad (pbuh) did not accept that he was not a prophet of Allah. Similarly, signing the passport form does not make Ahmadis non-Muslims. Neither does the constitution matter in that regard. It is forced upon Ahmadis … who have amicably agreed … just like the Prophet (pbuh) amicably agreed to Hudabiyyah. Do you see the parallels? ``}


Sattar Sahib,
It saddens me that you have to defend yourself against the stupid passport form and an asinine constitution. Just remember that it was against the law in Alabama for a colored person to drink from a white fountain and attend a white church or sit in the front section of the bus. Sometimes ``the law is an ass.`` I think your attempt to use the Prophet`s (PBUH) example was very noble. Unfortunately, the government of Pakistan is not as noble as you.
My sincere apologies to you and all our Ahmedi brothers for this great injustice brought upon you by the Paki Punjoo PainDoos. If they treat their own Punjabi brethren like this, I am not surprised at their killings of Mohajirs in Karachi and bombing of Baluchis in Baluchistan. Please don`t lose hope. To me you and most Ahmedis are more Muslim than almost all the Mullahs, all the Wahaabis, and most so-called Muslims. Good luck, brother.

This is Ajeya.

As most of you have probably noticed, ALL my posts are being filtered.

There cannot be ANY basis for filtering ALL my posts, since irrelevent and offensive posts are abundant on this website - starting with Behram. The other point, of course, is that ALL my posts are in RESPONSE to other posts.


This is a good illustration of why democracy will NEVER come to ANY Islamic country (Turkey, for example, is not a true democracy).

This is a low-class site with pseudo-intellectuals like Mantolives spouting endless garbage about topics like an ISlamic, Secular, and Modern Pakistan. Talk about contradictions!

The editor, of course, takes the cake - left wing radical Islamic nutcase with a zero talent in English writing skills.

Anyway, carry on your endless garbage.

And Arjun, carry on the good work!

Goodbye