Is the American Dream Dead? Can Asians Think?

Jeremy Rifkin, titled ``The European Dream`` and with a catchy subtitle ``How Europe`s Vision of The Future is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream``.


Yup..european dream..35hr work week, 10% unemployment, cars burning in the streets, people carrying ``behead those who insult Islam`` signs and nazi salutes at Italian soccer games..


85% of Americans believe God is important to them while more than 50% of Europeans say that God is not important to them.


So? 98% of people in any society are sheep. It`s the 2% who build civilizations and do the real important stuff..the bill gates` and the Linus torvalds`


Whether it is the cold war against the ``evil`` communists, the ``crusade`` on terrorism


The stupidity of the current administration`s rhetoric aside, that`s the RIGHT way..communism was plain WRONG and capitalism was(and is) RIGHT..terrorism is wrong and bombign the cr@p out of terrorists is RIGHT..

what would you have us do? paint everything in shades of gray? So the holocaust would paint the nazis and the jews as equal victims/aggressors?



7 of every 10 children in America are born out-of-wedlock


That`s the number for African-Americans..so not only are your conclusions wrong, your facts you`re using to arrive at those conclusions are suspect too.



The relatively well-to-do areas in India are as obsessed with American-style consumerism as are the Americans.


For the more well-off members of society to consume, the more productive ones have to produce..consumerism isn`t bad..it creates opportunities..can you say, with a straight face, that India today is not better off than it was 20 years ago..

Let`s face it: As an asian, you`ve got a better shot at making it(whatever the it may be) in the US than in Europe..

I remember that when I was in school we were in awe of this guy who could ``ratta mar``
(memorize) any book or text. In the traditional school I was in, this was impressive in 5th or 6th grade but soon lost its impressive sheen.

Mr. Athar Osama is of the same calibre. He thinks that copying passages from one book or the other, he is creating the same kind of dialog. But all this is ``copy-paste``, the 21st century version of ``ratta mar``.

FACT: Americans are very religous and attend Church a lot.

OK, correct but what does that mean in the context of american culture?

In NE United states and California most of these people are extremely liberal. After attending church they go to a demonstration in support of burma or tibet and also for women`s rights. So thats one kind of ``church``. Their church probably has a women minister/rabbi/guru.

In less educated southern united states, church has a different meaning, much closer to traditional societies like poland or india. People sincerely believe nonsensical myths like Jesus is son of god and who knows what else! This is reflected in their thinking and conservatism.

For black people, church has altogether another meaning. While quite conservative, they are focussed on economic issues, state providing for basic facilities, overcoming their educational backwardness. Quite different from christians in southern united states.

SUMMARY: Shri Osama, please try to actually do some thinking vs. ``ratta maro``. You are no longer in sixth standard.

This book, when it came out was priced at 26 bucks, it can now be bought for 3 dollars at Borders.

My 8th grader can write a more convincing essay than this bullshyt.

Someone spending 6 years in this country in a student dormitory has as much clue about the American dream as an Average American about Hira Mandi. Just so you all community college middlers know that there is no such thing as an “American Dream”. Americans are busy working to make a living (Germany’s unemployment is 14%…whoa). Only some unemployed knuckleheads who are sitting on their butt hoping for things to work out for them without lifting a finger are the only ones “dreaming”. For those who work hard, it is a “reality” and not a dream.

#3 by Kulharee on February 13, 2006 7:23am PT


Germany’s unemployment is 14%…whoa


Maybe the Germans should be in church praying for a job...

they`ll end up in church anyway..in the soup kitchen run by the church..

Arjun, not just Germany, the whole EU has double the unemployment compared to the US (US has 5.1% as of today). Japan, 4.5%. This book compares US with Europe where youth are busy burning cars while kids of Desis (Asians) in athe US are attending medical schools. This whole bitchy attitude of pointing deficiencies in the American system is endemic in pseudo intellectuals and community college educated underachievers, like this author and Asadi and Shah girl who comes up with the same moronic garbage now and again. On the one hand the article is portraying American as a “religious” society, while in the same breath highlighting the “divorce” rate. Which is it?

Author,

You must feel free to pat yourself on the back if you think you have developed a fundamental understanding of what this country (USA) is all about – some of us desis (this one included) have lived here for decades and are only now beginning to scratch the surface and feel quite humbled!

And if I were you, I would not take my examples from the Europeans – many of whom still have to “discover” a race relations problem, and a few other problems, too!

My quick summary of your article – you read a book by a less-than-objective individual who starts with faulty and pre-conceived notions (in my view, it is utterly ludicrous to state that Americans think of themselves as the “chosen” people – however, many do think themselves as the “blessed” people – and there is a world of difference between the two terms) and then you use it to reinforce what you have always been convinced of yourself. In other words, both authors are less than unbiased on this issue and already have a preexisting negative view of this country. (One can only wonder why chowk editors continue to push articles along those lines – is it simply having too limited a pool of writings available or is it by design?)

I personally think the American dream is very much alive – because it rests on reality (not on pipedreams sold by demagogues of bygone times), the underlying foundation is its general population (and not an elite) and there is a strong moral core (unlike a hypocritical and anything-but-religious but very fiercely preaching and many times fanatical “religious” body, as in some other countries) which sustains it – and shall continue to do so.

Paradoxically, there is no element of geography involved with the American dream and therefore, other countries are only now beginning to catch it!

The strength of the core can not be captured through surveys of the type that the book author quotes. The results of the surveys will change over time – the dream won’t!

god bless america .............

............ as somone who spends a lot of time in europe (actually a lot more than i care to), the only thing i find better in europe is italian food and french wine .......... there is no comparison as far as everything else is concerned ......... even the people are unkempt and blatantly racist - asians are much better off in the good old usa than in germany or holland where they are viewed with derision and suspicion (and that includes code coolies from TCS, Infosys and Wipro who never get asked out for dinner even if they are picking up the tab !)............ ``we don`t like turks and indians, they are worthless.......... we`d rather get guys from poland and hungary who at least understand our culture,`` a german collegue in hamburg told me last week after three glasses of the finest cabernet sauvignon ..........

............ so my advice to osama: stay here, you will be much better off ........ god bless america

#5 by Kulharee on February 13, 2006 8:03am PT

It`s the whole ``America is doomed.. doomed!`` leftist-Islamist schtick..comrade masadi is an expert on it..

It intensified after 9/11 and America`s invasion of Iraq. It starts of with the assumption that America is doomed and then all facts are made to point to the same conclusion..countries against the Iraq war can have a 14% unemployment, immigrants who`re not as integrated as those in America and a host of other problems but still not be deemed destined for doom..

What`s strange in this case is that the author doesn`t fit the profile of the usual suspects..


Athar Osama is a Doctoral Fellow in Public Policy at the Frderick S. Pardee - RAND Graduate School for Policy Studies in Santa Monica, CA.


Surely someone who`s living in the US and has heard about the recent events in Europe should know better..

#7 Hamidm mian,

There is no need to keep repeating “God Bless America” – I think nobody will kick you out if you don’t do that.

People in this country can speak their mind – it is a fundamental right – and that is not an American dream!

That’s the American reality!

By the way, Hamidm mian, how did you con an interact index of 2.0 out of these people and how come tahmed has a 3.0?

Also, chowk staff, is it possible to display the running interact score average (to two decimal digits) – so interactors can figure out how close to “extinction” they are at a given point in time?

``The first pilgrims that arrived at the American continent in the 1600s were protestant reformers who had migrated to get away from the tyranny of the English and the Catholic Church.``

The tyranny of the Catholic Church... in England?! One word: Wikipedia. Or try a tacky Plymouth brochure.

Just a few points. Germany`s unemployment rate is not 14%, it is 11.3%. Germany faced huge problems after the reunification in 1990. West Germany poured 600 billion euros (US$ 720 billion) into developing the infrastructure of the East. Today Germany is the world`s second largest exporter.

Re: # 9

bjkumar mian,

tahmed is part of the chowk mafia and as for me, i earned a lowly 2.0 for simply being a paki ........... you know that chowk staff only tolerates the horrible hindoos on this site for the entertainment value, don`t you ? ............. anyway keep on trying and maybe now that farzana ji is the editor she will put in a good word for you even though she has been accused of being a closet paki ...........

....... as for ``god bless america`` it is a heartfelt blessing because my children live here and i don`t want anything bad happening to them ......... not that i take god seriously, or anything ...... it is just a figure of speech - free speech, if you would .............

....... but i do find this trashing of america by some ungrateful and miserable third-world immigrants rather disgusting ......... if it weren`t for america, they would be squatting on the railroad tracks in the morning looking out for an oncoming train with their rearends exposed to the elements ..............

god bless america ! (again)

Re: # 7 hamidm
[.....``we don`t like turks and indians, they are worthless.......... we`d rather get guys from poland and hungary who at least understand our culture,``.. a german collegue in hamburg told me .]

Is that a true incident - or just one of your ``editorials`` :)?.... Just curious - because I would imagine the german would be a little cicumspect saying such stuff to your colored face....your penchant for ``finest cabernet sauvignon `` notwithstanding.... :)

But again - I have heard of blatant racism prevalent in european countries towards colored people - so I would not be surprised.....

Re: # 13
I am ``coloured`` and live in Europe. I have never faced any racial abuse.

#12 Hamidm

The dig on your saying “God Bless America” was for its entertainment value – I fully understand your own sentiments (and have done so for a while) on that issue. I can only add “Amen” to those. I also have the feeling that our children (and especially their children) are not very likely to be frequenting a web site like this – it is just a fact of life that they will carry identities quite different from ours – again an American reality and no dream!

(PS: I personally think your interact index should be at least 4.0. If there is a limit on the total, perhaps chowk should take some away from Manto. Also, you may be overestimating the real clout of editors (except perhaps in their own minds.))

Re: # 13

mohar main,


...... i hate to say this but it is true - people will say strange things after a few drinks ....... and even though this type of overt racism is rare, you can sense it in many other ways specially when they speak in english and use terms like ``these people`` for the turks or you see the almost total absence of turks and north africans in the professional ranks ...........

.......... look, i don`t have statistical data to prove this feeling, but i do have extensive dealings with europeans .........even though it is much easier to get through at the airport, once you are in, you don`t feel too wlecome - maybe if you spoke the language it woud be different, but i doubt it ........ the attitudes are different ........... now i have to go and get on a call with these damn europeans ( it gives me endless pleasure to keep them up till eight in the evening!) ..... i`ll try to explain it later.........