Cartoon Clash of Civilizations
Bina Shah February 2, 2006
#25 Posted by nasah on February 3, 2006 7:43:24 pm
``well Ms Wilkinson the trouble with that tit for tat is that both Jesus and Moses happen to be ALSO the holy prophets of `humor-impaired` Islam.
There are plenty of Arabs and Sheek stereotypes and of course the cartoonist`s delight bin laden is well and alive -- why bring the prophets into the melee....``
and to my chooee tuo mooee Muslims -- so what if the Dumb Danes Did make a crummy cartoon of the prophet -- why do the Muslims care -- for Allah will surely punish them for their poor penmanship......or HE will laugh and throw the piece in HIS trash can -- mumbling basstards.....
There are plenty of Arabs and Sheek stereotypes and of course the cartoonist`s delight bin laden is well and alive -- why bring the prophets into the melee....``
and to my chooee tuo mooee Muslims -- so what if the Dumb Danes Did make a crummy cartoon of the prophet -- why do the Muslims care -- for Allah will surely punish them for their poor penmanship......or HE will laugh and throw the piece in HIS trash can -- mumbling basstards.....
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#24 Posted by sadna on February 3, 2006 7:21:16 pm
Friday, February 03, 2006 The Daily Times Pakistan
R E G I O N: Danish govt okays more Afghan troops
COPENHAGEN/ PRAGUE: Denmark’s parliament on Thursday decided to send 200 more troops to the NATO-led international force in Afghanistan.
The troops are to leave in May or June and will be based in Afghanistan’s troubled south, where NATO will take over peacekeeping from US forces. ``
``NATO-member Denmark currently has 160 soldiers based in the Afghan capital Kabul. ``
R E G I O N: Danish govt okays more Afghan troops
COPENHAGEN/ PRAGUE: Denmark’s parliament on Thursday decided to send 200 more troops to the NATO-led international force in Afghanistan.
The troops are to leave in May or June and will be based in Afghanistan’s troubled south, where NATO will take over peacekeeping from US forces. ``
``NATO-member Denmark currently has 160 soldiers based in the Afghan capital Kabul. ``
#23 Posted by sadna on February 3, 2006 7:05:22 pm
Correction #21
I think it is high time Pakistanis make up their minds whose side they stand on, suicide bombers or those being killed by them. Any selective outrage in this matter doesn`t work.
If one is under threat of being killed by suicide bombers invoking Islam then one has every right to draw cartoons of anything in Islam one well pleases before one is killed. No point in trying to have it both ways.
I think it is high time Pakistanis make up their minds whose side they stand on, suicide bombers or those being killed by them. Any selective outrage in this matter doesn`t work.
If one is under threat of being killed by suicide bombers invoking Islam then one has every right to draw cartoons of anything in Islam one well pleases before one is killed. No point in trying to have it both ways.
#22 Posted by nasah on February 3, 2006 6:49:29 pm
A cartoonist view of the present row over Danish cartoons:
One Picture, A Thousand Outcries
I draw to help prevent a world where others make decisions for me. And I’m willing to risk being called anti-Muslim for it.
By Signe Wilkinson
As someone who has been picketed and protested for her blasphemous, insensitive, anti-Islamic cartoons, I have nothing but sympathy for my Danish colleagues who have incurred the wrath of the godly by publishing a portfolio of cartoons making fun of one of the world’s great--but apparently humor-impaired--religions.
However, I also have compassion for the members of humor-impaired religions. After all, I am an empathetic Quaker.
It’s been my experience that most groups are humor-impaired when outsiders make fun of them.
On MSNBC.com, readers were asked to vote on whether they thought the Muslim protests were justified. The vote was running 82 percent against the Muslim reaction when I checked Thursday night.
But let’s just change the image.
What if it were a cartoon showing someone burning the American flag? What if it were a depiction of Jesus with a smoking shotgun as a comment on Christians shooting abortion doctors?
What if it were the Star of David used as a hoop that a politician must jump through to get elected?
I’m guessing the approval rating would plummet. Actually, I don’t need to guess because at various times in my career I’ve penned (and my newspaper has published) cartoons along those lines. Lack of humor ensued after each one. A number of my cartoons have caused boycotts, lost advertising for my newspaper, and elicited streams of phone calls and/or picketing in front of our building.
My editors have had to explain the nature of cartooning to the offended representatives of various faiths, ethnicities, and political groups. And I am not alone.
Nearly all cartoonists worth their salt have enraged some portion of their readership, often when religious symbolism was part of the cartoon. Most of the ensuing protests are loud, sometimes intimidating, but generally peaceful.
I don’t go out of my way to poke fun at the religiously faithful. I have no grounds to criticize other religions, when my own is such a quirky (though perfect) little cult.
This said, readers should know that cartoonists working for mainstream American newspapers--and there are more than 80 around the country--generally try to avoid negatively caricaturing any group just to make fun of them.
American history is filled with examples of published images that would not run in newspapers today, our most egregious sin being the racist portrayals (without comment) of black Americans in cartoons, advertising, and illustrations.
As the civil-rights movement revealed the injustice behind those racist images, those cartoons went from being humorous to hideous.
Blacks weren’t alone in trying to influence how they were portrayed in popular culture.
Long before 9/11, Arab-Americans asked for cartoonists to be more sophisticated in their depiction of Middle Easterners. Early in my career, I received a heads-up from an Arab-American group pointing out that all Arabs aren’t head-scarf-wearing sheikhs.
At several of our The Association of American Editorial Cartoonists conferences, representatives from Jewish, Latino, Arab, and other ethnic groups pled for relief from what they saw as derogatory stereotypes that we cartoonists routinely used as shorthand.
Our images have changed over the years, though many of us still draw sheikhs with scarves because they feature prominently in the news.
If you wear dresses and scarves, cartoonists are going to draw you with dresses and scarves. But I think if you did a study--and I haven`t--you`d find that more cartoons about the Middle East now feature Arabs who more resemble an American teenager at a mall.
Of course, sheikhs get to choose what they wear. Many women in Islamic societies don’t.
My encounters with Muslims have mostly come over cartoons protesting the treatment of Muslim women.
After one such cartoon, a local woman called me to defend the headscarf. I said I had no problem with anyone freely wearing a headscarf or any other religious outfit. I then asked her, ``But you wouldn’t force other women to wear a headscarf, would you?``
After a pause she replied, ``Well, if it was for her own good.``
So there you have the reason I go to the drawing board every day. I am drawing to help prevent a world where someone else decides what I must wear for my own good. And, I’m willing to risk being called anti-Muslim to do it.
I’m guessing the Danish cartoonists were trying to do the same thing. The cartoons were criticizing violence and suicide bombing in the name of Islam.
The cartoonists have the right to publish.
And, in a free society, Muslims have a right to protest and publish their own cartoons in response.
This is not a right granted to cartoonists or protesters in some Muslim countries.
I hope Muslims will come to know that they aren`t the first, and won`t be the last, to be offended by a political cartoon.
I know cartoonists will take into consideration the reaction to this caricature when drawing their next ones on Muslim issues.
If the reaction of the “Arab street” continues to be violence whenever they don’t like something they see in someone else`s newspaper, then I predict more such cartoons are on the way.
My suggestion is that instead of threatening to draw blood, Muslims should pick up their pens and draw return cartoons instead.
well Ms Wilkinson the trouble with that tit for tat is that both Jesus and Moses happen to be ALSO the holy prophets of `humor-impaired` Islam.
There are plenty of Arabs and Sheek stereotypes and of course the cartoonist`s delight bin laden is well and alive -- why bring the prophets into the melee....
One Picture, A Thousand Outcries
I draw to help prevent a world where others make decisions for me. And I’m willing to risk being called anti-Muslim for it.
By Signe Wilkinson
As someone who has been picketed and protested for her blasphemous, insensitive, anti-Islamic cartoons, I have nothing but sympathy for my Danish colleagues who have incurred the wrath of the godly by publishing a portfolio of cartoons making fun of one of the world’s great--but apparently humor-impaired--religions.
However, I also have compassion for the members of humor-impaired religions. After all, I am an empathetic Quaker.
It’s been my experience that most groups are humor-impaired when outsiders make fun of them.
On MSNBC.com, readers were asked to vote on whether they thought the Muslim protests were justified. The vote was running 82 percent against the Muslim reaction when I checked Thursday night.
But let’s just change the image.
What if it were a cartoon showing someone burning the American flag? What if it were a depiction of Jesus with a smoking shotgun as a comment on Christians shooting abortion doctors?
What if it were the Star of David used as a hoop that a politician must jump through to get elected?
I’m guessing the approval rating would plummet. Actually, I don’t need to guess because at various times in my career I’ve penned (and my newspaper has published) cartoons along those lines. Lack of humor ensued after each one. A number of my cartoons have caused boycotts, lost advertising for my newspaper, and elicited streams of phone calls and/or picketing in front of our building.
My editors have had to explain the nature of cartooning to the offended representatives of various faiths, ethnicities, and political groups. And I am not alone.
Nearly all cartoonists worth their salt have enraged some portion of their readership, often when religious symbolism was part of the cartoon. Most of the ensuing protests are loud, sometimes intimidating, but generally peaceful.
I don’t go out of my way to poke fun at the religiously faithful. I have no grounds to criticize other religions, when my own is such a quirky (though perfect) little cult.
This said, readers should know that cartoonists working for mainstream American newspapers--and there are more than 80 around the country--generally try to avoid negatively caricaturing any group just to make fun of them.
American history is filled with examples of published images that would not run in newspapers today, our most egregious sin being the racist portrayals (without comment) of black Americans in cartoons, advertising, and illustrations.
As the civil-rights movement revealed the injustice behind those racist images, those cartoons went from being humorous to hideous.
Blacks weren’t alone in trying to influence how they were portrayed in popular culture.
Long before 9/11, Arab-Americans asked for cartoonists to be more sophisticated in their depiction of Middle Easterners. Early in my career, I received a heads-up from an Arab-American group pointing out that all Arabs aren’t head-scarf-wearing sheikhs.
At several of our The Association of American Editorial Cartoonists conferences, representatives from Jewish, Latino, Arab, and other ethnic groups pled for relief from what they saw as derogatory stereotypes that we cartoonists routinely used as shorthand.
Our images have changed over the years, though many of us still draw sheikhs with scarves because they feature prominently in the news.
If you wear dresses and scarves, cartoonists are going to draw you with dresses and scarves. But I think if you did a study--and I haven`t--you`d find that more cartoons about the Middle East now feature Arabs who more resemble an American teenager at a mall.
Of course, sheikhs get to choose what they wear. Many women in Islamic societies don’t.
My encounters with Muslims have mostly come over cartoons protesting the treatment of Muslim women.
After one such cartoon, a local woman called me to defend the headscarf. I said I had no problem with anyone freely wearing a headscarf or any other religious outfit. I then asked her, ``But you wouldn’t force other women to wear a headscarf, would you?``
After a pause she replied, ``Well, if it was for her own good.``
So there you have the reason I go to the drawing board every day. I am drawing to help prevent a world where someone else decides what I must wear for my own good. And, I’m willing to risk being called anti-Muslim to do it.
I’m guessing the Danish cartoonists were trying to do the same thing. The cartoons were criticizing violence and suicide bombing in the name of Islam.
The cartoonists have the right to publish.
And, in a free society, Muslims have a right to protest and publish their own cartoons in response.
This is not a right granted to cartoonists or protesters in some Muslim countries.
I hope Muslims will come to know that they aren`t the first, and won`t be the last, to be offended by a political cartoon.
I know cartoonists will take into consideration the reaction to this caricature when drawing their next ones on Muslim issues.
If the reaction of the “Arab street” continues to be violence whenever they don’t like something they see in someone else`s newspaper, then I predict more such cartoons are on the way.
My suggestion is that instead of threatening to draw blood, Muslims should pick up their pens and draw return cartoons instead.
well Ms Wilkinson the trouble with that tit for tat is that both Jesus and Moses happen to be ALSO the holy prophets of `humor-impaired` Islam.
There are plenty of Arabs and Sheek stereotypes and of course the cartoonist`s delight bin laden is well and alive -- why bring the prophets into the melee....
#21 Posted by sadna on February 3, 2006 6:46:49 pm
Bina Shah
In case you don`t know it is French, Scandinavian, Dutch and other European troops who have been and are going to be killed by suicide bombers in Afghanistan. These same suicide bombers have killed Afghan school teachers, Afghan election workers and Afghans watching a wrestling match.
These suicide bombers are not suffering Afghans, they are those who have been ideologically motivated to think they will get n number of virgins. As a Pakistani you can afford to be flippant about suicide bombers, unlike the Europeans you are not going to be killed by them- your govt. shelters them. I think it is high time Pakistanis need to make up their minds whose side they stand on, suicide bombers or those being killed by them.
In case you don`t know it is French, Scandinavian, Dutch and other European troops who have been and are going to be killed by suicide bombers in Afghanistan. These same suicide bombers have killed Afghan school teachers, Afghan election workers and Afghans watching a wrestling match.
These suicide bombers are not suffering Afghans, they are those who have been ideologically motivated to think they will get n number of virgins. As a Pakistani you can afford to be flippant about suicide bombers, unlike the Europeans you are not going to be killed by them- your govt. shelters them. I think it is high time Pakistanis need to make up their minds whose side they stand on, suicide bombers or those being killed by them.
#20 Posted by jang on February 3, 2006 6:38:04 pm
i agree that all pakistanis must shun, ban and starve and boycott jaish-e-mohammed and its affiliated for using the prophets name...only after that they have ANY right to protest insults to the prophet.
so from tommorow onward, whenever you see a jaish chanda box, keep walking with you hands firmly in your pocket, and call your local police (or FBI office in gulberg).
so from tommorow onward, whenever you see a jaish chanda box, keep walking with you hands firmly in your pocket, and call your local police (or FBI office in gulberg).
#19 Posted by shobig_sifar on February 3, 2006 3:59:23 pm
Re: # 16 Care to throw light on `some` of these details?
#18 Posted by avkrishna on February 3, 2006 2:58:50 pm
I am glad that someone had kicked this off again;
Because hidden deep behind the cartoons is a fundamental issue; The issue of fundamental Muslims trying to live a hypocritical life in Westren countries. Muslims should know that the freedom they experience in Westren countries come at a price; that their religion and beliefs would be attacked and scrutinized.
The reaction so far, except for a few pockets, only exposed the hypocricy of extremist Muslims living in free lands. The civilized world had been silenced before. One Theo Van Gogh can be killed but what will they do when a thousand Van Goghs come up..
Having said this, I also completely support the economic boycott of Danish goods and all the peaceful demostrations on the part of peaceful Muslims.
Thanks,
Avkrishna
Because hidden deep behind the cartoons is a fundamental issue; The issue of fundamental Muslims trying to live a hypocritical life in Westren countries. Muslims should know that the freedom they experience in Westren countries come at a price; that their religion and beliefs would be attacked and scrutinized.
The reaction so far, except for a few pockets, only exposed the hypocricy of extremist Muslims living in free lands. The civilized world had been silenced before. One Theo Van Gogh can be killed but what will they do when a thousand Van Goghs come up..
Having said this, I also completely support the economic boycott of Danish goods and all the peaceful demostrations on the part of peaceful Muslims.
Thanks,
Avkrishna
#17 Posted by Raw_Dust on February 3, 2006 2:14:45 pm
``Newspapers do not call Blacks ``niggers`` to test their tolerance,``
dost-mittar sahib:
you are missing the background of fear and intimidation of last few years. Newspapers have a duty to rise upto defend the values of a society, given what was done to Theo Van Gogh, a suitable case can be made that journalists did the right thing to stand up to the bullies.
dost-mittar sahib:
you are missing the background of fear and intimidation of last few years. Newspapers have a duty to rise upto defend the values of a society, given what was done to Theo Van Gogh, a suitable case can be made that journalists did the right thing to stand up to the bullies.
#16 Posted by Raw_Dust on February 3, 2006 2:10:32 pm
Mohammad`s life details have got some real shocking and horrible details that world hasnt caught on to. Mullas have used the stick of ``Eternal Condemnantion via Blasphemy`` for Mainstream muslims and they have been quite successful in training a pavlovian response out of the Ummah.
While the so-called progressive-muslims keep mum on deaths and subjugation of non-muslims AND muslims/ex-muslims (eg. Ayan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, Taslima Nasreen, A Danish-Pakistani Muslim girl killed recently etc. etc.) in the hands of radical islamists, i doubt world in general have the stomach for their dithering anymore.
nasah sahib:
the answer is in mohammad` grotesque and indefensible Sunnah which needs a cover of Blasphemy law or else the whole intimate-church of Islam will come crumbling down. we are living in interesting times.
While the so-called progressive-muslims keep mum on deaths and subjugation of non-muslims AND muslims/ex-muslims (eg. Ayan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, Taslima Nasreen, A Danish-Pakistani Muslim girl killed recently etc. etc.) in the hands of radical islamists, i doubt world in general have the stomach for their dithering anymore.
nasah sahib:
the answer is in mohammad` grotesque and indefensible Sunnah which needs a cover of Blasphemy law or else the whole intimate-church of Islam will come crumbling down. we are living in interesting times.
#15 Posted by nasah on February 3, 2006 1:36:22 pm
well the House of Islam is NOT a house of cards and the Master Builder of that House was never a cartoon character -- the WEST fully well KNOWS it....
because it has banged its head against that Rock of a House so many times in the past.....only to get busted heads again and again.....
...West had its basic teaching in almost every field at the same Turbaned Madarasas of that Bedouin Prophet in Cordoba, Baghdad and Damascus...before growing up to learn to fight two bloody world WARS -- among each other – while colonizing the world in the after hours....
....the question is do the Muslims know it.....
instead of being in perpetually defensive state of heavily sensitized holy anger -- WHEN are they going to enjoy the lightness of being a truly confident secure good humored Muslim.....
..NEVER....EVER.....?
because it has banged its head against that Rock of a House so many times in the past.....only to get busted heads again and again.....
...West had its basic teaching in almost every field at the same Turbaned Madarasas of that Bedouin Prophet in Cordoba, Baghdad and Damascus...before growing up to learn to fight two bloody world WARS -- among each other – while colonizing the world in the after hours....
....the question is do the Muslims know it.....
instead of being in perpetually defensive state of heavily sensitized holy anger -- WHEN are they going to enjoy the lightness of being a truly confident secure good humored Muslim.....
..NEVER....EVER.....?
#14 Posted by Saminasha on February 3, 2006 12:57:10 pm
Kulharee,
I`m not apologizing for anyone here, least of all individual or state sanctioned terrorism. I am merely conveying a few points of view worth considering.
I`m not apologizing for anyone here, least of all individual or state sanctioned terrorism. I am merely conveying a few points of view worth considering.
#13 Posted by Kulharee on February 3, 2006 12:50:32 pm
Re # 12: Samina, if you have Jews with star of David Bandanas and Christians with Jesus headbands blowing up innocents in suicide bombings by proclaiming Jesus has Risen, Jesus is the Lord, Moses is the King, you might see Jesus as a suicide bomber Cartoon in the MUSLIM press. Have you seen how all the suicide bombers have Green Mohammad Headband, and how Allah-o-Akbar is so loudly proclaimed when some poor soul’s throat is cut? Who do you think is insulting Mohammad`s sanctity more?
#12 Posted by Saminasha on February 3, 2006 12:37:11 pm
re: #7
The comment that my mother had made was that the MUSLIM mainstream world does not seem to satirize Moses, Christ or Mohammad. Please read the following passage more carefully:
``Her comment was that the Muslim world did not satirize Moses, Jesus or Mohammad as they were prophets and treated with reverence.``
If there are mainstream Muslim media examples of male Judeo Christian Muslim prophets being lampooned, satirized or caricatured, I have not seen them.
The comment that my mother had made was that the MUSLIM mainstream world does not seem to satirize Moses, Christ or Mohammad. Please read the following passage more carefully:
``Her comment was that the Muslim world did not satirize Moses, Jesus or Mohammad as they were prophets and treated with reverence.``
If there are mainstream Muslim media examples of male Judeo Christian Muslim prophets being lampooned, satirized or caricatured, I have not seen them.
#11 Posted by dost_mittar on February 3, 2006 12:11:17 pm
You have the proper take on this issue, Bina.
The cartoons were definitely not meant to be funny (except the one about running out of virgins) but a dare, a provocation, a red rag to the bull, etc., etc. These cartoons were originally published in an obscure Danish journal and should have been ignored.
Newspapers do not call Blacks ``niggers`` to test their tolerance, they do not call Aficans savages to test their tolerance, they do not even question the nazi holocaust to test the tolerance of Jews. By reproducing them, several European newspapers have decided to make an issue of it and test the limit of tolerance of Muslims against the freedom of expression.
As you have indicated the Muslim reaction has been predictably counterproductive. A Danish cartoonist draws the picture of Prophet Mohammed with bomb as headgear and ``Mohammadans`` respond by issuing threats of bombing Danish and European offices. How ironic!
Jawahara:
Last year, some French Catholics protested against the drawing of a naked Jesus wearing a condom. The court ruled that the drawing was distasteful but being a secular state, they had no power to do anything about it. I think that one of the funniest cartoon (in a French newspaper?) was Buddha, Jesus and Moses consoling Mohammad that they have all been there before.:)
The cartoons were definitely not meant to be funny (except the one about running out of virgins) but a dare, a provocation, a red rag to the bull, etc., etc. These cartoons were originally published in an obscure Danish journal and should have been ignored.
Newspapers do not call Blacks ``niggers`` to test their tolerance, they do not call Aficans savages to test their tolerance, they do not even question the nazi holocaust to test the tolerance of Jews. By reproducing them, several European newspapers have decided to make an issue of it and test the limit of tolerance of Muslims against the freedom of expression.
As you have indicated the Muslim reaction has been predictably counterproductive. A Danish cartoonist draws the picture of Prophet Mohammed with bomb as headgear and ``Mohammadans`` respond by issuing threats of bombing Danish and European offices. How ironic!
Jawahara:
Last year, some French Catholics protested against the drawing of a naked Jesus wearing a condom. The court ruled that the drawing was distasteful but being a secular state, they had no power to do anything about it. I think that one of the funniest cartoon (in a French newspaper?) was Buddha, Jesus and Moses consoling Mohammad that they have all been there before.:)
#10 Posted by nasah on February 3, 2006 10:38:19 am
no big deal -- the West is just trying to de-sensitize the Muslims living in the Western world -- with another version of Looking for the Comedy in the Muslim world
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