Are We The Most Racist Of Them All?

#34

It is not that complicated. At the basic level, prejudice is fueled by lack of information about the other. Learning another language and its literature and its associated cultural, geographical and historical contexts increases information about the other and opens up the different world of the other. Many educated N.Indians don`t even bother to know what languages are spoken where in India. How many N.Indians know of even one nonHindi poet or writer or classic from another part of the country?


At a more sublimal level, while learning another language is to absorb a different set of cultural idioms and to be different from a person knowing only one`s own. To encompass more than one cultural idiom in oneself is an organic way of being tolerant.

This is a great article. The worst thing to me is when Indians and Pakistanis call Black Americans as ‘Kala’ very disdainfully, although most of them ‘Desis’ are darker than the black Americans and even not physically as great as them.

Zeena is right in two ways:

1. Somebody had posted ‘Desi’ links on Pakistan proving his point, I believe Pakistanis generally do not use this word. It is too non-Urduish. At least Pakhtuns, Urdu speaking, Sindhis, and Kashmiris don’t use this word. Perahps a Punjabi on this site will like to add his viewpoint here. The origin of this word is ‘Dais’ meaning native land. Pakistanis tend to use its Urdu equivalent ‘Watan’ more often than not. The word ‘Desi’ seldom appears while we are talking to each other. It is perhaps when we refer to Indians and Pakistanis together in the USA, that we use the term. I have not heard this term being used by Pakistanis in the UAE, Bahrain, Australia and Canada.

2. In Pakistan there are ethnic biases, but generally no racism. For example, a Mohajir may call a Punjabi ‘Punj-aibi’ (referring to a religious term for a person with his 5 big religious sins), Punjabi may call a Pakhtun ‘Kho-chay’ (referring to our speaking two words very often), a Pakhtun may call a Mohajir ‘Hindustora’ (referring to the origin of the Mohajirs). However, all the 3 communities inter-mingle and cross-cultural marriages amongst different ethnic groups are common, provided they are arranged. Admittedly, there can be serious repercussions, if marriages are carved out without the blessings of the elders.

Ranjit referred to Bangladesh. Yes, that was the only example that fits the topic on racism. However, soon after BD came into being, most of the prominent members of the founding family was murdered and one party in the two party politics of that country emerged as pro-Pakistan. However, instead of Pakistan, I would attribute all of this to a general Bengali characteristic of forgiving others on their wrong-doing. I have many examples from personal experience where I have seen that Bengalis generally forgive when the wrong doers apologize. I am sure this personal trait has become national character also.

#19 sadna, #28 anil

Yours are well-intentioned comments each but (in addition to being impractical) they happen to be off-the-mark.

Chauvinism does not come through the language and it does not go away by learning more languages. Some of the most prejudiced individuals have been highly educated literary scholars (the example of Gore Vidal comes to my mind (I am not an expert on him)). And knowing many languages does not get rid of narrow-mindedness. An argument can be made that this site is teaming with chauvinists – everyone of which knows at least two languages (English in addition to their own) – what has changed over the last 7-8 years? (Go back and look at the earlier postings – the answer is – precious little.)

It’s little to do with any part of the culture. Chauvinism begins at home. And the knowledge of language (the vehicle) is not a prerequisite for the understanding of cultures – it used to be so once – but in this day and age the language is simply an appendage of the culture.

From the communication point of view – which is the original purpose behind having a language, Hindi and Urdu are more similar than different (in spite of the more recent attempts to emphasize on and to artificially and consciously build upon the differences) – people who know one of these have rarely difficulty understanding the spoken version of the other. Yet the chasm remains between the communities that claim each as their exclusive mother! The chasm remains – because its underlying poison gets injected (in my view, more among the Muslims of Pakistan, some of whom have invested too many of their emotions into what I consider a mirage and as that mirage continues to recede – such individuals continue to beat upon those hot sands in frenzy!) and then it gets reinforced through repetition – and demagogues (both in uniform as well as in civilian clothes) take advantage of it!

These are miraculous times when it is possible to learn about other cultures (or big parts of those) without what used to be the absolute necessity of having to learn their languages.

As technology evolves, enlightenment is sure to follow – the only question is will it come in a timely manner for our brethren on the other side of that border?

Some Terminologies for Chowkies

It is observed that Chowkies use many terminologies in addressing each other in the interactive forums. They are generally limited to Moron(mostly used), Stupid, Fool and Idiot.

Here are some more for them :-

Bonehead, Dummy, Dullard, Dunce, Buffoon, Duffer, Jackass, Sucker, Fathead, Nerd, Clown, Joker, Screwball, Wag, Madcap,Duckegg,Pinhead,Baboon.

Or try this subcontinental stuff :-

Ullu, Nalayak, Bevkoof, Gadha, Pagal, Khat-dimag, Pajama, Lallu, Be-akal, Akal-ka-dushman, Akal-key-paidal, Akal-key-kacchey.

racism exists where people have time to rant their neighbours, the local government, the mohallas, the chowks where people gather in the evening.
Unemployment masala is racism, into which adds the grapevine too.

Re: # 24
I second the opinion. Pakistanis in-house are never stringent inter-racist, but Pakistan has been let down by the foreign lobbies.
Pakistan is wanted to be seen deplored in crisis politically, economically, culturally. The influx of cultural entertainment is to target the ignorant masses.

Pakistanis need leadership and associated coverage - there are many Lakshmi Mittals in Pakistan, unreported. What is reported is unfound rape cases.

Congratulations Rakesh Mani.
It takes guts to show the dirt in our own belly button.
Over a century ago when people of the Subcontinant were taken to Africa and other colonies initially as indentured labourers to build the railways or what ever else the British wanted us to do, we saw the indigenous people there as Blacks, although some of them were lighter skinned than us and yet we immediately created a new race—Kaaria, Kaaley, Nehrey etc!
A century later the chicken came to roost in the form of Idi Amin and other riots against us in many parts of Africa.
Still old habits die hard!
Although I understand, scientifically there is no such thing as a Race, but racism has its own meaning. Example:
Many years ago Filip Wilson, an Afro-American comedian accidently dropped his white handkerchief on the stage floor while walking off the Stage. His manager, a white man bent to pick it up. Filip immediately turned round to face the audience and quipped “this is the first time a white man went cotton picking”. The statement was an enormous hit with the audience!
By the way are Desis and Pakis two different races? No no don`t bother to answer. The posts have made it clear.
Rashid

Yo Snarky

If Zeena says she is NOT desi - then she is not desi.... what`s your problem with that?.... let pakis be just pakis - no need to further confuse an already neurotic group of people.... it works better for everybody.....

Dudh ka Dudh, pani ka pani - Desi ka Desi, Paki ka Paki..... :)

Re: # 19

Sadna:

I agree with you on this one, my mother tongue is also Hindi. Indian identity must be defined at parity for all Indians, and Hindi speaking Indians cannot become the first among the equals, by giving Hindi any higher status than the other languages.

Anil

Re: # 11
re: Zeena:

Pakistanis are not desi, eh ? Separate culture, don`t-group-one-with-the-other eh ? ``We do not call ourselves desis Well, I respect your impulse to try and ``... save our own identity based on our separate nation and country, called Pakistan.`` but I`d be a lot more convinced of a completely separate identity if language, religion, dress, movies, tv serials, food, poetry, literature, music, and even fashion styles did not overlap so much.

Oh, and I did a search on desis and pakistan. As I thought, there are many whose Pakistani identity will not automatically dissolve and become corrupt if they continue to use a word that has been in Urdu for generations.

And a funny article, too, on the usenet group soc.culture.pakistan

Zeena, no one is trying to assimilate your identity with the Indian one. The author has made a point about racism in India and in Pakistan. I asked if you have any comments on that. Your only contribution has been to point out that you are not desi, that Pakistani nationalism subsumes all concept of race and that casteism and racism are one and the same.

And yes, casteism and racism have significant overlap - but they are not the same. Person X of Y caste and person Z of W caste will often have to consider their differing castes before marriage, even if they look similar and have been living in the same area for generations.

Re:zeena#24

[...All I am standing up for is, I am Pakistani, nothing else, no desi shesi....]

Desi is a catch-all term for all South Asians. It is does not deny anyone`s nationality. Its like calling someone a European even though he may be French, German, Italian etc.

I know you are from NWFP and probably think you are some kind of a gori superior to all of us desis. Unfortunately for you, in the west, we are all desis, irrespective of how fair or dark your skin is.

Re:Zeena#20

[...No, Pakistanis are absolutely not racists like Indians...]

I noticed how conveniently you ignored my point of Pakistani racism against Bengalis leading to 1971. Did 1971 occur or not? Did West Pakistanis treat Bengalis with extreme racial bias?

If you deny this, either you are completely ignorant of your country`s history or are so blinded by jingoism that you will not even acknowledge historical facts.

As far as Mohajirs are concerned, please ask my friend Salim Chauhan, who frequents this forum. He is from Karachi and can give you first hand account of the bitter racism and oppression he encountered growing up in Karachi.

By the way, I admire your nationalistic fervor. Believe me, I am also very nationalistic about India. However, that does not mean that I will deny the weaknesses of India and where we are lacking as a country.

harimau
Please, read my posts with clarity of your mind. I am saying pakistan is a mixture of different races chained in one identity , called Pakistani. Do you have a problem with that?
Why?
I am surprised, why?
Tell me Pakistan and India are not two different countries? yes, of course they are. Then why Pakistanis should have same identity as Indians? In that case, why all this separate nation issue? Why two nation theory?

As for as some stupid brits mixed up Indians and Pakistanis, that is their retardedness, I am not responsible for thier moronish behaviour. All I am standing up for is, I am Pakistani, nothing else, no desi shesi. I have my own solid identity, which is separate from India, Iran, Afghanistan, China, etc, etc.

Ref Zeena #14

[No, all Pakistanis are not one race. But, all Pakistanis are chained together through this beautiful chain of nationality called Pakistani, which is their only idnetity. Once, they are Pakistanis, then all other races are left far, far, far behind. Thanks]

Hey, I thought the chain was something called Ummah and you are all connected to the camel jockeys of Saudi Arabia.

No race in Pakistan, eh? How about those Sayyids, you know, the direct descendants of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) Himself?

How about all those named Taimur or Genghiz? Aren`t they the descendants of conquerors of yore? And how about people with Persian names like Pervez (pronounced in the English language as `Perverts`)?

I think you have got plenty of races within Pakistan. Ask a Sindhi or a Baloch what he thinks of a Punjabi.

Ref Zeena #11

[I don`t have any problem with this word,``desis``. The point I am making is, this word is absolutely used for Indians. I am not Indian, so, why should I use this word for my identity.]

You are right. We are desis; you are a Paki.

Now, would you make the difference clear to the skinheads of London who beat up Indians thinking they are Paki-bashing?

Re: # 20

zeena, you are right you are not a desi. You are a pakistani painDu. You belong to FATA and the panchyat culture. Non-painDu Pakis like raw_dust are trying to get you out of your goat-herding background and give you opportunities to migrate out of your backwardness. New Jersey is your new home. Be thankful and quit itraa-ying (ask an Urdu speaker what itraa-ying means).

Non-painDu Pakis are desis with close ties with Hindus and Hindustani culture. You are not a desi by virtue of your goat-herding background, but non_painDu Pakis are. You share your Paki-ness with non-painDu Pakis like MNI, who in turn share their desiness with Indians like arjun and Gandhi.

PaniDu = people from pinD.