Are We The Most Racist Of Them All?

Re: # 83

You should be flabbergasted you know....
The Sanskrit word is Sindhu. The word Hind came from the Persians. It`s a corruption of Sindhu. The Sindhu to you now is the river Indus. And if you are so worried about etymological issues the word Pakistan has part of its origins in Sanskrit. ``Stan`` comes from the Sanskrit ``Sthana`` meaning place. It also is also related to the English stance, stand and the Latin stare..
And don`t give me that stupid explanation by Chowdhury Rehmat Ali about it being the initial letters of Punjab Afghania ...etc etc. I don`t think the Iranians would like it very much. Yes the I is supposed to stand for Iran.

And if some poor lisping Persians unable to form the word Sindhu and had not confused it with Hindu we would we have been nameless irreligous people.? Unfortunately it wouldn`t have been so good. -) Pity.

Officially in Sanskrit the Dharma would have been called Sanatana Dharma or Vaidika Dharma perhaps. Now that would have been a mouthful for some people.

By the way the most common usage of the word Afghan is dated after 928 AD. The origins of the word are murky but there is one version that seems to say that it comes from the Sanskrit word Avagana at it was used by the Indian Astronomer Varamahira in the 6th century (check the Encyclopedia Britannica). Similarly the word Pathan seems to come from either the Persian word Parsava or the Sanskrit word Prathisthana.
Now is the boot on the other foot?

“Pathans/Afghans call Paki Punjabis ``Hindus``....”

Indian knowledge of their culture and history is just flabbergasting.

Historically, the afghan called everyone East of River Indus, Hindu. Hindus are Hindu because afghan said so some thousand years ago before that Hindus had no idea what they were.
This is a major tragedy for a culture or even a religion that it is defined by the invaders.

What if Afghans had not called Indians, Hindu…What would have been the name for the religion now called Hindu?
Can someone take a guess?


I heard that now they are claiming that Hindu is a Sanskrit word, a compound word to hoot. The identity crisis in Hindus is so acute that some Hindu after claiming that Taj Mahal was actually a mandir, are now claiming that Red Fort was built by some Hindu raja too. The evidence is in couple of elephant statues guarding the gates and kaalchakra in some arch.

re: jang # 81

Exactly. My prejudice of the day: One shouldn`t easily trust people who claim to harbor no prejudices at all. :)

indians love to stereotype because in india distinct identities are fiercely maintained.

punjabis will be loud and madrasis will eat with their entire hand. biharis/poorbhaiyyas will be crude ganwar (my panwala would always express a sentiment ``hi re garmi`` and fan his dhoti whenever a female passes by) and gujjus somehow are always in proximity to khaman dhokla.

and its like a fractal, in each larger nationality, there are sub-nationlities..e.g. tamil brahmins have sterotypical characteristics for iyers and iyengars..harimau and sridhars are expert on this but rarely bring it out ;-).. and ghatis talk of konkan brahmins as being cheap..

i however dont see anything negative in this..its all fun. no melting pot here..every flavor is distincly maintained in this khichadi.

aman,

the Punjabi spoken in the last 15 years is not the Pbi I was brought up on................


Pathans/Afghans call Paki Punjabis ``Hindus``.... there is an Afghan pizza owner family in the neighborhood whose past time is bashing Pakis esp. Pbis.

I have found that racism and prejudice comes from ignorance and lack of education. One of the biggest factors in racism is fear. People in the 70’s feared that South Asian people were taking over Britain, but now ‘Curry’ is the national dish and South Asians contribute so much to the economy. If you call up a call centre and say your name is Ahmed, more than likely the person on the other end will ask if it is spelt with an A or an E at the end. South Asian culture has become amalgamated itself into British culture and it’s no longer exotic, just normal. Most white British people wouldn’t really be too bothered if their child was dating an Asian or non white person. The people with the problem would be our very own Asian people.

No matter how hard the white person tries they will never be good enough, many see them as caste-less, with lower morals, and less God fearing, than our own people. Even if the person converts and starts to speak our language. But then, who is ever good enough for your child?

The inter-race prejudice comes, I feel, mainly from our own insecurities, our lack of self confidence, our lack of self esteem, to make ourselves feel good or better we put down our own people. And we will use any and every means, ‘they are darker’ ‘they are stupider’ ‘they are uglier’ ‘they are cow worshippers’ ‘they are cow eaters’ they are this that and the next thing.

These things are further compounded by stereotypes, Sindhis are chalak, Baluchis will rob you, Punjabis are loud and over emotional, Pathans are dangerous, Kashmiris are lazy, The bhaias are kunjoos etc. Over the recent years I have seen Pathans from Afghanistan come into the Punjabi countryside, which for Punjabi people is quite daunting, they live in their own bastiaN away from the villages and a million and one stories are spread about them. My Baji doesn’t like us to stop at the adda that is across from their basti as she feels the men look dodgy, untrustworthy and shifty (yes can you believe it, there is are people that look dodgier than Punjabi people!) Contrary to belief, not all Pathans are fair skinned sturdy people. Their women never come out and mingle with other women and in the soaring heating they still wear that all encompassing dress.

In Faisalabad there is a Pathan family that lives in my massi’s neighbourhood, all they do is have kids, every second day you would hear gunshots being fired into the air because they had another kid (tho that I hear has calmed down). They don’t speak Punjabi or even much Urdu, and my little cousin puts stones in a shoe box and shakes it around to imitate the sound of their language. Again even in the city they don’t mingle with other people as much and over the years, I have never got to know any of them but many of the other mohalla vallahs. Their lack of integration has encouraged even more prejudices, and my aunties openly wish them back to Afghanistan or NWFP. Although a lot of prejudice in Punjab against Pathans can also be due to historical reasons, with the Pathan invasions where they didn’t even spare Muslim people, so there is an historical lack of trust.

Even my sister who was born and brought up here, on a recent visit to Kohat to visit her Jeth, Jethani, said to me ‘…when I seen the sign Welcome to Punjab, I felt relief…’ though I think that was more to do with language and home comforts, although it has to be said that coming from Punjab, NWFP seems very conservative, intimidating, and unsafe, partly from the stereotypes we have and partly from what we see there.

Despite this at the end of the day we know its in our advantage to stick together as a nation, and we do co-operate and get on with it, one of the best examples of this would be the very dull and boring city of Islamabad. My cousins there have friends from all provinces, communication is in Urdu, but they have taught each other a word or two of each others languages and my cousins have explained a lot to me about Sindhi, Balochi, Pathan, etc. cultures, their similarities to ours and the little quirks that they have. I often enjoy meeting their friends as there are so many different kinds and always so many questions to ask. However, these are all people of a certain class and education level and probably represent the more refined parts of their provinces and culture.

An interesting twist to this is when Indians come to Pakistan, there is no prejudice just an amazing amount of curiosity, a curiosity that’s not so strong when people from two different provinces meet. Its almost like India (old des) is the new valait version 2 (but the valaities speak our language too).

Re: # 76
At the risk of being pedantic, in Kerala the language is actually Malayalam, the people are Malayalee......-))))

Sridhar, bollywood streotypes are not just ``madrasis``, it has streotypes for punjabis, mainly sardars, biharis, bengalis, anglo indians etc , it does not discriminate.
Harimau arent you being racists by calling N.Indians stupid, I have come across south indians in delhi who believe they are the most cultured people around and make fun of n.indians.
Some of the most intelligent and gifted people come from the north, nobel prize winner hargobind khurana, the father of the green revolution, ms randhawa, our present prime minister, meera nair [ she is actually a nayar], deepa mehta etc.
my brother is married to a tamil, i dont find her relatives any more more intelligent than ours.

I left E Punjab, about a year and half ago, and I never heard the word desi used to refer to people, like Ally says it is used as desi ellaj, desi dawai, etc.
I think it is used by N.Americans to refer to people from desh i.e India.
Sridhar, just as N.Indians living in Bangalore cant speak Kannada, most South Indians cant speak Hindi, and its not confined to north/south. a Punjabi cant speak Rajasthani, Haryanvi, Bengali and vice-versa.
by the way, I am a north indian and I do know that in Tamil nadu the lang is Tamil, in Andhra Pradesh it is Telegu, in Karantaka it is Kannada, in Kerala Malaylee etc

`Desi` is not as much a matter of language as of cultural affinity, of marking out of a diffuse grouping that connotes some kind of cultural similarity. There is desi mindset, desi manners (or lack of them), desi style, desi habits, etc.

Not all Indians learn the word `desi` as a part of their native language and vocabulary. Yet, since a shared Indian culture is emerging, albeit slowly, most Indians have no major issue with the word.

In Pakistan matters could be more complex. Some Pakistanis clearly see themselves as inheriting and taking part in creating a shared Southasian culture. Some don`t. Some obviously don`t fit in that fabric. Different people have varying responses to the word `desi.`

(Often, the word is used in a purely geographical - South Asian - sense. Then, it is just a label and can hardly be controversial. One can use any other label in its place.)

anil #55 #28
Glad that we agree.

rsridhar

Those mahmood type of roles were absolutely disgraceful. If North Indians are still creating caricatures like those, then Harimau definitely has a point about the natural and innate stupidity of North Indians. I so hope we are moving beyond that ignorant mentality.

``The world NEEDS stupid people and North India is happy to supply them.``


LOL! There is and can be only one Harimau (just as there is and can be only one bjkumar) :)

re:#42 by ranjit
How many Punjabees settled in Bangalore can speak Kannada u think? The answer is: zilch.
Leave aside speaking Kannada, most North Indians would not know which language is spoken in which South Indian state.
One colleague of mine during my medical school days (in Delhi) was surprised so many people could speak Hindi in Hyderabad (the idiot was confusing Urdu with Hindi) and commented that Hyderabad rightfully belonged to the North!
Sridhar

re: racism in Bollywood
You need to go no further than bollywood to know how racists North Indians are. You will almost always find a Tamilian character in a movie who is made to look like a clown trying to speak hindi. Mehmood became famous by imitating (in utter bad taste of course) a ``madrassi`` in the movie Padosan. I think it caused public outrage in Madras and other places at the time.
Bollywood has not learnt in 50 years and neither have the Northies.
Sridhar

re:#20 by Zeena
You must be kidding when u say Pakis are not racists. It was Paki racism that caused the dismemberment of your nation in 1971. Bengalis could not take the kind of racism that was thrust on them by Pakjabi Army (Pakjabi means Paki Punjabi).
I have found Punjabis on both side of border to be some of the most racist people in the world.
Sridhar