Are We The Most Racist Of Them All?

hmm.. well these racist issues are everywhere, no society is racist free. Every country you go to, there will be differences. I would say.. myself being from overseas.. when i go to pakistan i feel superior then those around me, and try to say.. ``how pindu this person is``.. its natural.. we all want to feel better then the rest.

The question of are we racist.. yes indeed we are.. there is racism problem within pakistan. People though should call themselves pakistani and be proud, inside the country they judge according to race.. sindi, pujnjabi, balochi, mohajir, pakhtoon etc.. Bt then its natural. But the problem occurs, when you work your ass off to fit into the local society of an alien socitey, then you have the right to complain.. because you atleast tried. But then they are just being humans..

Allah hafiz..

Re: # 161

people are entitled to go for what they want. Thats without question. But i think that what the writer is questioning here is the reasoning. And the inability of a lot of people to question their reasoning. Its not objectable for one to prefer a blonde over a brunette......or a brunette over a blonde for that matter. However when you come out with a vague, universal statement....alomost a law.... such as ``fairer girls are prettier than darker girls`` surely you can see there is a problem with this. It seems to be taken for granted. If not...then u probably wouldnt have any problems with a statement such as ``it is better to be born white than asian``...or ``it is better to have a baby boy than a baby girl``

basically our world does not change unless we change. It is probably no wonder that your ``very dark complexioned friend`` wanted a ``very fair bride``......he probably had personal experience of the negative bias that people carry....only problem is that he succombed to it rather than challenging it.

[We`re so racist that we have the heaviest biases within our tiniest microcosms. Even within our own race and our own country, we`re so fond of discriminating based on community or colour of skin. Just take a peek at the matrimonial columns that feature in the Indian newspapers, they`re awash with ads for potential brides being touted as having, ``fair complexion.`` Ever seen any that proclaim dark skin? At best, you`ll see, ``pretty girl with wheatish complexion.`` Wheatish, of course, being the local euphemism for being not too dark, in a country where just being fair-skinned automatically translates into better marriage prospects and where get Consider the much talked about craze for fairness creams: Fair & Lovely, Emami Naturally Fair, Himalaya Herbal Cream.. the list is endless. Seems like the best business to get into in India today, everyone`s jumping on the bandwagon. The fairy-tale promotions for fairness creams on television often show a pretty, dusky girl opting for such-and-such fairness cream because she isn`t happy with her skin colour. Not getting enough attention. Uses the cream then, turns her white as a ghost and ta da! Cut to the girl walking around a college campus armed with a bouquet and blushing around a bunch of swooning guys going ga-ga and banging into lamposts.

Now what is this but pure racism? ]



No, I don`t think this is racism at all.

Everybody has a right to marry whatever kind of person they want. And if they prefer lighter complexions, that is their choice. In the Western societies, the overwhelming majority of people prefer the ``whiter`` or the ``more blonde`` complexion. No one thinks twice about it. There is a reason that in the English language the word ``fair`` is synonymous with beauty.

I think people like this author have to get over their complexes.

In fact, amongst my darker complexioned friends, there is a MUCH higher bias against darker complexions. At the same time, they complain how people are biased against darker complexioned people. One of my friends (who is very dark complexioned), and had an arranged marriage, confided to me ``I told my parents that my ONLY requirement is that she be VERY fair complexioned``.

Complete hypocrites.

Get over your own limitations and complexes, and feel free to like what you like.

#147 by hasanmahmood

[....because I have been to India and I know what good looks mean in your country and trust me that is the reason why it is considered a previlige for you guys to get married to someone in Pakistan. ]


I know of a couple of cases within my friend circle amongst American Born Indian guys where Pakistani girls wanted to marry them but the families on both sides came in the way.

Also, I found out from my Iranian friends how it is considered in Iranian society a ``step down`` if they marry a Pakistani. If an Iranian marries a Pakistani, his/her family tries to keep it discreet from other Iranians. It turns out that Iranians consider Pakistanis less cultured than them as well as less ``white``.

I have also heard from Russians (from the provinces bordering Iran) that for them it is a definite step down if they marry Iranians who they consider less ``white``, whereas Iranians themselves consider Russians ``truly white``.

In many parts of the Indian Hindu society, for example, it would be considered a SERIOUS step down if someone married a Pakistani SOLELY because they are considered less ``cultured``.

Funny, isn`t it, how the world works.


And by the way, although Pakistan started the Kargil War, they did lose the war rather badly. Don`t listen to the Pakistani dictators - read the reports from around the globe.

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#148 by hasanmahmood

[Secondly you really think you broke the country. No dude, the Bengalis broke the country. You just helped them. We actually did break your Baharat maa.]

The why did 93,000 of your brave soldiers endure a humiliating surrender? Was your dad one among them?

#148 by hasanmahmood

[lol, the whole world knows that India lost in Kargil but of course you won`t know that. You have too much pride. The only reason soldiers were brought back from the ``Indian Occupied Territory`` was because nobody wanted a full-fledged war.]

Which world? The alternate world in which Pakis are well respected without being subjected to humiliating strip searches, where Pakistan is not THE hotbed of terrorism? That `world` sadly exists only for Pakis. Others live in the real world.

If India lost, why did Nawaz Sharif run uninvited to Washington DC on July 4? To beg a reprieve for India? LOL! Why were bodies of dead Paki soldiers left behind? As souvenirs for the Indian Army? LOL!

[Secondly you really think you broke the country. No dude, the Bengalis broke the country. You just helped them.]

OK, if that doesn`t hurt your ego, but FYI, the Mukti Bahini, the Bengalis who broke Pakistan, were armed, trained, and financed by India.

[We actually did break your Baharat maa. If you guys would not have killed millions of Sikhs in the riots you probably would have lost more.]

When and where did Pakis break Bharat Mata? Please let us know, we`re waiting with bated breaths.

[By the way can you really ask the women you know from India whether or not they were raped by the so-called goras who they die to imitate nowadays.]

I have no clue but ask your mom, she`ll know.

#147 by hasanmahmood on February 17, 2006 6:57am PT

[I have been to India and I know what good looks mean in your country and trust me that is the reason why it is considered a previlige for you guys to get married to someone in Pakistan.]

I`m sure you`re after an Indian gal who refuses to give you time of the day which is why you fantasize about Indian women dying to marry Paki `hunks`. But yeah Paki `hunks` like Maulana Fazlur Rahman, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam Ul Haq, Abdul Razzaq, Mohammad Yousuf and Danish Kaneria with their looks would really do any woman proud.

146, 147, 148, 149

You are right that the Bengalis broke Pakistan and they were helped by India. Any patriotic Pakistani would have died of shame before saying this. Probably in your lifetime you will also have the chance to say that first the Baluchis, followed by the Sindhis and then the Muhajirs and finally the Pakhtoons broke up Pakistan and India helped them!

It is also good to be proud of good looks of Pakistanis (although I have seen several ugly and filthy specimens). Just stop for a moment and think of your origins. You have neither fallen from heaven nor airdropped from Arabia. Just go back a few generations and you will find that your forefathers were a biproduct from rape of Hindu women, mostly from menial class, by the Muslim invaders. This progeny was forcibly converted to Islam. So you are just a convert having enough low caste Hindu blood( may be mehtar)and cow urine in your system. With that revelation you do not feel so proud any more, is it? Just take it easy with the superiority bit and remember you are just Indians what turned paki and you will be a more content man.

re: #149 by hasanmahmood
(ol, the whole world knows that India lost in Kargil but of course you won`t know that...)
It is always a pleasure to educate morons like you.
Go to the Kargil Timeline link and see what it says.
The following is from the above link:
Url: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/391361.stm
(....Mr Sharif will have to explain to Pakistanis that they have not suffered a defeat in the two-month conflict, and that support for Kashmiri separatists has not suffered a blow.

Pakistan began putting pressure on the infiltrators to leave after Mr Sharif agreed with President Clinton a week ago that ``concrete measures`` should be taken to restore the Line of Control which divides Kashmir.

On Sunday, Pakistan and India agreed on a plan for the infiltrators to withdraw from their positions, bringing a halt to the fighting....)
Sridhar

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re:#146 by hasanmahmood
Ha, ha, ha.
I strongly recommend the sample i sent Beharam. He may have some left (the stuff is costly and specially prepared for Pakis). It is guaranteed to improve your I.Q level.
Sridhar

re:swang 142
More on Islamic tolerance: as told by a muslim
(re: From the pages of the book: Leaving Islam-Apostates speak out (by Ibn Warraq)
( Why I Left Islam

I am often asked, Why I left Islam?. As absurd as it may be, some Muslims cannot even allow themselves to think that leaving Islam is an option, or even possible. They rather think that those who leave Islam are paid Jewish agents than accept the fact that people have freedom to think and some may even think that Islam is not for them. The following are my reasons.

Not until few years ago I used to think that my faith in Islam was not based on blind imitation but rather was the result of years of investigation and research. The fact that I had read a lot of books on Islam, written by people whose thoughts I approved of and delving into philosophies that were within my comfort zone, emphasized my conviction that I had found the truth. All my bias research confirmed my faith. Just like other Muslims I used to believe that to learn about anything one has to go to the source. Of course the source of Islam is Quran and the books written by Muslim scholars. Therefore, I felt no need to look elsewhere in order to find the truth, as I was convinced that I have already found it. As Muslims say “Talabe ilm ba’d az wossule ma’loom mazmoom”. The search of knowledge after gaining it is foolish

Of course, this is a foolish idea. What if we want to learn the truth about one of these dangerous cults? Is it enough to depend only on what the cult leader and his deluded followers say? Wouldn’t it be prudent to widen our research and find out what other people have to say about them? Going to the source makes sense only in scientific matters, because scientists are not “believers”. They do not say something because they have blind faith. Scientists make a critical analysis of the evidence. It is very much different from religious approach that is based entirely on faith and belief.

I suppose it was my acquaintance with the western humanistic values that made me more sensitive and whet my appetite for democracy, freethinking, human rights, equality, etc. It was then that when I read again Quran I came across injunctions that were not al par with my newfound humanistic values, I was distressed and felt very uncomfortable to read teachings like these.

Q.3: 5
”But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have gone astray”.

Q.16: 106
”Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.”

One may think that the dreadful penalty mentioned here pertains to the next word. But Muhammad made sure that these people received their penalty in this world as well. See the following:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:

I heard the Prophet saying, ``In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection.``

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 63, Number 260:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn `Abbas, who said, ``Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, `Don`t punish (anybody) with Allah`s Punishment.` No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, `If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.` ``

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 63, Number 261:

Eight men of the tribe of `Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, ``O Allah`s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.`` Allah`s Apostle said, ``I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.`` So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.

And from Partial Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4339

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu`minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) Said: The blood of a Muslim man who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah`s Apostle should not lawfully be shed except only for one of three reasons: a man who committed fornication after marriage, in which case he should be stoned; one who goes forth to fight with Allah and His Apostle, in which case he should be killed or crucified or exiled from the land; or one who commits murder for which he is killed.

The following is very disturbing. I dare to say any man who read it and is not taken aback with disgust has a long way to go to become a human.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348

”Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood``.

I felt the above story was a manifest injustice. Muhammad condoned a man killing a pregnant mother and his own unborn child just because he said that she insulted him!?

(Arabs used to sleep with their maid slaves. Quran perpetuates this tradition Q.33: 52 “It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens): and Allah doth watch over all things.” Muhammad himself slept with Mariyah the maid slave of Hafsa his wife without marrying her.)

Forgiving someone for killing another human being just because he said she insulted Muhammad is unacceptable. What if that man was lying to escape punishment? What dose this story say about Muhammad’s sense of Justice? Imagine how many innocent women, were killed by their husbands during these 1400 years who escaped punishment accusing their murdered wives of blaspheming the prophet of God and this Hadith has made them get away with it.

Here is another one.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4349

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

It was not easy to read these stories and not be moved. There is no reason to believe that all these stories were fabricated. Why should believers, who have tried to depict their prophet as a compassionate man fabricate so many stories that would make him look like ruthless tyrant?

I could no more accept the brutal treatment of those who chose not to accept Islam. Faith is a personal matter. I could no more accept that the punishment of someone who criticizes any religion must be death.

See how Muhammad dealt with the unbelievers.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4359

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The verse ``The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite side or exile from the land...most merciful`` was revealed about polytheists. If any of them repents before they are arrested, it does not prevent from inflicting on him the prescribed punishment, which he deserves.”

How could a messenger of God maim and crucify people on the account that they resist accepting him? Could such person be really a messenger of God? Wasn’t there a better man with more moral an ethical fortitude to bear this mighty responsibility?

I could not accept the fact that Muhammad slaughtered 900 Jews in one day, after he captured them in a raid that he started. I read the following story and I shivered.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4390

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:
I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair

Also I found following story shocking.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4396

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off. He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his foot.
So his (left) foot was cut off.
He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his hand. (So his (left) hand was cut off.)
He was brought a fourth time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off.
He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him.
So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him.

Seems that Muhammad passed judgment before hearing the case. Also by cutting a thief’s hand he is left with no other means to earn his bread except begging, which would be difficult since he is defamed as a thief and so hated by people. Therefore re-offending becomes his only means of livelihood.

After living many years in the West and being received kindly by people of other religions or of no religion, who loved me and accepted me as their friend; who let me into their lives and their heart. I could no more accept the following mandates of Quran as the words of God.

Q.58: 22
“You will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger…”

Q.3: 118-120
“O you who believe! Take not as (your) bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made clear to you the aayaat (proofs, evidence, verses), if you understand. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e., you believe in the Tawraat and the Injeel, while they disbelieve in your Book (the Qur’aan)]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly Allaah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’ If a good befalls you, it grieves them, but some evil overtakes you, they rejoice at it…”

And

Q.5: 51
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…”

I also found the above statement false. The evidence is in the Bosnia and Kosovo crisis; where Christian countries, waged war against another Christian country, to liberate Muslims. Many Jewish doctors volunteered to help the Kosovar refugees, despite the fact that during the WWII, the same Albanian Muslims took side with Hitler and helped him in his holocaust against the Jews.

It became obvious to me that Muslims are accepted by all the people of the world yet our prophet wants us to hate them, to disassociate ourselves from them, to force them into our way of life or kill them, subdue them and make them pay Jizya. How silly! How pathetic! How inhumane! No wonder there is so much inexplicable hate of the West and of the Jews among Muslims. It was Muhammad who inseminated the hate and the distrust of the non-believers among his followers. How Muslims can ever integrate with other nations while holding these hateful massages of Quran as the words of God?

There are many Muslims who immigrate to non-Muslim countries and are received with open arms. Many of them get into politics and become part of the ruling elite. We suffer no discrimination in the non-Islamic countries. But see how our holy prophet tells us to deal with non-Muslims were we are the majority.

Q.9: 29
”Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

I also find the following verses completely against my conscience. I love all humanity and wish everyone to be happy in this world and forgiven in the next. But my holy prophet bade me not to seek forgiveness for the unbelievers even if they are my parents and beloved ones.

(Interpretation of the meaning by Muhsin Khan):

Q.9: 113
“It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allaah’s forgiveness for the mushrikeen, even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the Fire (because they died in state of disbelief).”

Quarn and Ahadith are full of outrageous verses like these that to me are clear proof that Muhammad was not a prophet, but a cult leader. To force people to denounce their own family is what cults do. He was an impostor who lied so loudly and so forcefully that the ignorant people of his time believed in him. Then the following generations echoed this lies passing it to the next. Philosophers and writers were born in this atmosphere of lies and elaborated on it, embellished it, and made it credible. But when you go to the core of it, when you read Quran and study the Ahadith you see it is nothing but lie.

I know my words can be upsetting. But I urge you, to take control of your anger, read my other articles and muse on them.

As you see my rejection of Islam is not based on the bad deeds of Muslims but on the bad deeds of its author. All the cruelties and heinous acts of violence, perpetrated by Muslims throughout the centuries were inspired by Quran and Sunnah (the example of the prophet) That is why I condemn Islam for the bad things that Muslims do. I know any effort to humanize the Islamic community is a waste of time. The enemy is Islam and that is the target of my attacks. I do that despite having become the magnet of the hatred of all fanatical Muslims. There is no gain in this for me. The only reason I am so adamant against Islam is to liberate the world from the claws of this satanic cult and restore peace and prosperity, love and amity amongst the children of man.

By. Ali Sina)
Sridhar
P.S: Any comments Swang?
Jakey apney shohar ka bistar garam karo. Aur tum muslim khawatoonon ko aata bhi kya hai?

149/hasan

nah - we reserve the spicy smelling spit for muslims these day..... you know being evil and all that - we have to do all that stuff to make sure muslims are oppressed properly....

Re: # 145
if you dont know what she means then ask a Hindu girl. She will tell you. By the way do you guys still talk to people from different caste or do you still throw the spicy smelling spit their way - lol

Re: # 141
lol, the whole world knows that India lost in Kargil but of course you won`t know that. You have too much pride. The only reason soldiers were brought back from the ``Indian Occupied Territory`` was because nobody wanted a full-fledged war.
Secondly you really think you broke the country. No dude, the Bengalis broke the country. You just helped them. We actually did break your Baharat maa. If you guys would not have killed millions of Sikhs in the riots you probably would have lost more. LKike I said you really dont know how to rule anything. By the way can you really ask the women you know from India whether or not they were raped by the so-called goras who they die to imitate nowadays. I really hope they have some shame left but listening to you I highly doubt that.

Re: # 140
lol where did you get the history lesson dude. Most women converted because they saw nothing good in your kaali mai. And I dont say so but I know so for a fact because I have been to India and I know what good looks mean in your country and trust me that is the reason why it is considered a previlige for you guys to get married to someone in Pakistan. But you wouldn`t know that because your Bollywood tells you in most of the movies that Hindu men marry Muslim women. Would it be surprising for you to know that actually more Hindu women want us then they want you guys lol

Re: # 139
first of all an Indian guy making a six figure salary and not working in Dunkin` Donuts. What kind of a physician are you? Lol..I can never see Hindus as doctors. Anyway, Hindu religion is something that will go away soon anyway as they are all trying to become the cool goras so they might even convert to Christianity anyway. But what the hell will they do about their skin color or the smell that comes out of them. By the way if you are a physician do you give a mask to your patients to wear when they are sitting too close to you.

Re: # 142 swang
[...My husband and work needs my attention Whink!!. Gals you know what I mean....]

Nobody knows what you mean.....you are a nut-job lady - get some therapy :))))

Swang

Enjoy your personal life. May it be long and happy. But, if you are a normal person, exposing it to scrutiny and attacks on Chowk isn`t a swell idea.

#142 by swang

[OR its just you are toying with me because I am from lower caste.]

Enough already, stop playing the victim! How would the guy know you`re from a lower caste? Please use your head once in a while.

Re: # 139
Look who is talking!!
You first brought the religion by posting a letter on interact #114.

Latter in # 136 you said

Full of Bull.

You fell in love with a muslim. That is reason enough to marry. Now, don`t try to justify our conversion to Islam. You may want to ask your husband if he would have accepted you (with warts and all) if u had not converted.

In Islam, it is imperative that a girl convert.

About Islamic tolerance, u do not have to try convince us. We see it everyday. Shops etting gutted, embassies burnt, etc etc all because some stupid guy published the picture of your prophet!


with warts and all where did this come from. OR more appropriately should I ask when did I got warts before or after marrying a Muslim. Or did I contracted it while sleeping with your mother who got it from you. Just give it up you don`t have the balls to take it like a man that Hindu girl got married to a Muslim guy. OR its just you are toying with me because I am from lower caste.
Don’t go into this burning thing over stupid cartoon. Come again, why Indian Hindus killed innocent fellow Indian Muslims in Gujrat.

Need I have to give more proof about your ignorance or its enough?

P.S. Anyone who is enjoying this graphic discussion should know that I wont be online for a while as I have a life outside Internet. My husband and work needs my attention Whink!!. Gals you know what I mean.

#134 by hasanmahmood

[Well actually most of the muslims are taught by their religion to not be violent.]

Of course yes, we’re seeing evidence of that almost everywhere.

[The only time people strapped bombs on themseleves against Hindus was in 1965 war but nowadays in Bollywood the Hindus talk about doing it to themselves to save their country. I guess they were not brave enough in 65 but now they are]

We didn’t have to do that actually. We broke your country into two without strapping ourselves with bombs. 93,000 of your brave soldiers were caught with their pants down (doing what only you guys can do best) and had to endure a humiliating surrender. I’m sure your father must have been one of them, which is why that angst in your tone.

[They used to take the Hindus women out naked and rape them.]

That explains the fair color you Pakis are so proud about.

[You need heart, and intelligence and reading your rhetoric I can safely say that Hindus have none. I guess Pakistan is safe from you guys for a long time.]

Is that why you guys piss in your pants whenever India buys sophisticated weaponry? Your soldier-President, the one who fled Kargil leaving behind the bodies of your soldiers, promptly issues statements claiming that the purchase will alter the arms balance in the subcontinent.

#127 by hasanmahmood

[well, Bollywood represents the cream of Indian people (especially in looks).]

Why? Just because you say so? Please remember most Pakis are the offspring of Hindu women converted and married by Muslim invaders, so no matter how much you crow, you have Hindu genes in you.

[Lollywood (or whatever term is there) represents nothing but prostitutes and the scum of our society.]

They are Pakis nevertheless aren’t they? That’s what I said if you didn’t notice “Pakis copy Indians”.

[So basically they were expected to come up with nothing more than an idiotic response.]

So you confess that you Pakis did copy us.

[Don`t you feel embarassed when mothers come on television and all they want their daughters to do is to dance in front of everyone. I am pretty sure now it is considered a talent to be as naked as possible in front of everyone.]

What do we do when even Pakis like Salma Agha and Meera make a beeline to India and want to dance naked in front of Indians and impress them? In short, apart from terrorists, is Pakistan exporting prostitutes to India these days? Don`t you have anything better?

re:#138 by swang
The woman converted by her choice. A hindu man can marry a non-hindu but will not force her to convert. Not so with muslim men.
I have been in chowk for many, many years. You can call this a hobby in itself. I have other hobbies too but i don`t care to share it with u.
BTW, i am a physician in US earning a 6 figure salary. Now, go and eat a humble pie!
Sridhar
P.S: If u had just said love made u do what u did, i would accept that. Do not bring in religion here.

Re: # 136

In #114 you have copied an article in which Muslim woman is converted and married a Hindu guy. Can you tell me why it is alright to convert from Islam to Hinduism but vice versa is ridiculous? I can sympathize with you. You don`t know what love is about.

Do you have any other hobbies or interacting on Chowk is the only past time you had. Wow 4235 interactions. That must be a record. On the other hand what a single jobless guy with no friends and NO friend (forget girlfriend/wife who in their right mind would like to be with you) would do, besides throwing his shit at others.

#128 by hasanmahmood
( Licking Gandhi`s balls like every filthy Indian does. Go out and make something of yourself dude. Just having an atomic omb does not make you a super-power. You need heart, and intelligence and reading your rhetoric I can safely say that Hindus have none)
Ha, ha, ha.
Hilarious post!
I advice u to take the same medicine that i sent behram dude from the website: www.iam apakiandiwantindianshit.com. Some Pakis have improved their I.Q level by eating that stuff.
Sridhar

re:#121 by swang
Ha, ha, ha.
Full of Bull.
You fell in love with a muslim. That is reason enough to marry. Now, don`t try to justify your conversion to Islam. You may want to ask your husband if he would have accepted you (with warts and all) if u had not converted.
In Islam, it is imperative that a girl convert.
About Islamic tolerance, u do not have to try convince us. We see it everyday. Shops getting gutted, embassies burnt, etc etc all because some stupid guy published the picture of your prophet!
Sridhar

134 hasan
[...only time people strapped bombs on themseleves against Hindus was in 1965 war ....]

Really? hmmm....I thought the muslim suicide bombing is a recent phonomenon... born out frustration after years of oppression by external forces.....

Anycase - that didn`t stop the hinuds though - I mean, they are still killing muslim as we speak - in kashmir for example..... and then what about those other guys I told you about- jews, americans etc?.....I mean, americans have killed 100,000 muslims in iraq[or so I hear].... and the chinese - they kill muslims in xinxiang - or so we hear.....

+++

[....I dont have to prove to you about Hindus killing Muslims...]

Of course not....you don`t have to prove nothing - I am on your side here dude :)... I understand you completely....

Re: # 133
Well actually most of the muslims are taught by their religion to not be violent. But just like you there are fundamentalists in every religion. The only time people strapped bombs on themseleves against Hindus was in 1965 war but nowadays in Bollywood the Hindus talk about doing it to themselves to save their country. I guess they were not brave enough in 65 but now they are....Your history is also a little askewed. ``The gentle Europeans`` that you so lovingly refer to were the ones who used to rule you dude, or does England somehow is referred to a non-European country nowadays. They used to take the Hindus women out naked and rape them. Maybe those were the ones who gave birth to all the dancers in your country today....These same Europeans were involved in not only one but 2 worst wars called ``World War 1`` and ``World War 2``. These Europeans were involved also in the genocide of millions of Jews. But maybe your limited intelligence does not allow you to go that far back. How about Milosovic or do you love that guy too.
I dont have to prove to you about Hindus killing Muslims. The fact is out there. Outside India you guys are pathetic pieces of crap who say nothing but ``Thousand Apologies`` , but inside there is no one badder than you. Maybe I am whinning but what are you doing. Licking Gandhi`s balls like every filthy Indian does. Go out and make something of yourself dude. Just having an atomic omb does not make you a super-power. You need heart, and intelligence and reading your rhetoric I can safely say that Hindus have none. I guess Pakistan is safe from you guys for a long time.

131/hassan

Nah - ``dirty`` is too kind a word to describe hinuds, they are evil people - your references from Boston Globe and elsewhere proves it..... I mean, hinuds kill muslims - right?

These days everybody seem to out to kill muslims - hinuds, jews, americans, russians, chinese kill muslims with abandon.....and now, it seems even gentle europeans are out to get you guys..... Seems like - you muslims are just third-class people being killed/dominated by everybody these days....

SO what are you going to do about it?.....I mean - you are sitting here whining like a girl while your people are being killed all over the place.... shouldn`t you be strapping bombs to your chest and blow up some kaffirs?...

Re: # 130
``looks like you have learnt your ``pakistan studies``

If these links to The Observer, The Chronicle, and The boston Globe plus mumbai.indiemedia.org look like Pak Studies to you then what can I say. If I would have been referring to Pak Studies I would have said something like ``Gandhi was a British agen who was sent from South Africa - he was living in South Africa because he did not even want to live in a place like India`` but I am not qouting Pak Studies - am I?

Re: # 130
They re not evil - just dirty. But I am glad that you called them evil after reading the articles I mentioned in post 128.

128/hasan
[....Because Hindus could never be trusted to rule anything and we knew that. ...]

Yep - these hinuds are evil people.... looks like you have learnt your ``pakistan studies`` well :)..... Hook up with HP - he has more material on hinuds and their evil ways..... he will make your day.....

Re: # 113 read by post q128 and then go and convert to Islam...Your kali mai is not gonna save you....

Re: # 114


www.rediff.com/news/godhra.htm
I really have to slaute you for respecting Muslims before this cartoon row happened at least. But I never respected Indians (especially Hindus and below are some of the many examples because of why). I am surprised that people from your religion have the audacity to say that they dont like another religion. I can understand that you were taught that because you were ruled for so many years by us. Now you wanna take it back. But seriously if you wanna take anything back, then it should be your integrity. Your actors dancing like idiots on the streets of USA does not portray you to be an open-minded race (for a lack of a better word). It shows you to be subservient to the goras. Go ahead be like them but dont try to lose your identity (not that there was any to begin with) in this process. I know it is a fad to hate every Muslim but now you know why we got a separate country. Because Hindus could never be trusted to rule anything and we knew that. Unfortunately Muslims who still live in India did not, which is why they are going through the pains that we did not have to. I would rather be killed by a Muslim than to have to go through the shame that every Muslim has to go through in your so-called country.

(1. Over 100 accused in post-Godhra riots acquitted
2. Gujarat mass grave: CBI recovers 7 skulls )

http://mumbai.indymedia.org/en/2002/06/1664.shtml
(ROLE OF POLICE IN GUJRAT CARNAGE)

http://www.geocities.com/shrawan_k_s/Communalism/Gujrat/
( 1.Militants seek Muslim-free India - Observer, UK
2.Rising threat of Hindu extremism - Boston Globe
3.Divide widens for Muslims, Hindus in India - Chronicle
4.Muslim women and the Gujarat holocaust - Tehelka.com
5.We are Muslims, we are Muslims, please save us. Let us in )

Re: # 125
well, Bollywood represents the cream of Indian people (especially in looks). Lollywood (or whatever term is there) represents nothing but prostitutes and the scum of our society. So basically they were expected to come up with nothing more than an idiotic response. But from such esteemed people who every Indian imitate, it was kind of surprising. By the way you guys do anything else nowadays other than dance and sing? Don`t you feel embarassed when mothers come on television and all they want their daughters to do is to dance in front of everyone. I am pretty sure now it is considered a talent to be as naked as possible in front of everyone.

Re: # 120
[I am glad that you are a fast learner…Seems like you were working overtime to figure out my habits or it is just a new nick for convenience? Nai jam lai purany shikary! ]
Nope I get to the computer on odd occasions. Spend more time soldering things in the lab. No I`m new to chowk. Naya Shikari , Naya Shikar. You brighten up my day HP . I`ll miss you if you go away.
[So those racist Persian called Hindus darky or dorky (just my spin) and you are gladly taking that as a badge of honor.]
Of course Hindu can mean dark in Persian or as in Hindu-e-Falak (google got this for me ain`t that good) or black of the sky. But apparently it`s supposed to also mean Saturn. Isn`t that good then? We are up there above the poor Persians frowning down on them . Besides some of us like being black you know. ``Krishna`` is the dark one just as his other name Shyam. We like different colours. White is so banal. Like those little worms that scurry around under stones don`t you think. Don`t be colour conscious. If you didn`t have black how would you know what`s white. And white has to be composed of other colours you know. VIBGYOR and all that sort of thing.

[Basically, Hindu, as we call them now, had no precise word for their religion because there was no one religion. It was all about pagan rites and rituals.]
Don`t you understand this HP. This is the good part. Our god (if such a thing exists) is nameless , formless,
exists , does not exist. Isn`t that great.
Now calling things pagan is very bad. You are learning things from Judaism and Christianity once again as you r co-religionists did before . Tch Tch.....I suggest you go off and read Maxime Rodinson.. You might learn a bit more of your own ilk. Paganism is good. Wasn`t it those pantheistic pagan Greeks that gave the world Democracy or some such thing. You know , off with the people, 4 the people (very Malayalee pronunciation) , buy the people. etc etc... And look such monuments to Diana, Meenakshi , Aphrodite, Menaka lovely women all......

If malt is not your style what is... Lassi. I could drink to that too. I could offer you South Indian payasam or even our own country hooch made from palm toddy. You`ve got to admit some of these Hindus sorry Darkies cooked and brewed well.

As the famous Shoba De of Stardust used to say in Neeta`s Natter, Miaow from one cat to another till the next post.

Keep smiling.

Re: 117
By the way rshridhar , the Asiatic Society in Bombay has some really good books on languages etc. The bit about Avaghana was in a book written by some Brit . I can`t remember which one but its also quoted in the Encyclopaedia Brit ..

S

#91 by hasanmahmood

[Does the term ``Bollywood`` ring a bell. Maybe hindus came up with it and the word ``Hollywood`` came later :). Truth is you guys will always try to be like the people who ruled you.]

And you guys would always imitate Indians, even though you wouldn`t want to talk about it in public because that would negate everything that Pakistan ever stood for. Care to explain why the Paki film industry is called ``Lollywood``?

Re #120

We will take with good grace whatever you choose to call us - dorky, kaffir, butparast, hanud, bipolar factoid junkie

Regards

Re: # 120

``Hindu in Persian actually means dark.``

Should not you learn Sindhi vocabulary first before venturing into Persian vocabulary?
So what it was spoken by your darkie ancestors!

Re: # 114

I donot have time nor energy to find out when did this article become forum for hatred between Hindus vs Muslims or Indians vs Pakistanis. There are some misconceptions spread about Muslim women which I thought should be removed.

Anyway to get a full picture about women in Islam see this site

MUSLIM WOMEN ON THE MOVE

For one thing Qadiani`s don`t like to be called one. They are like to be mentioned as Ahmedi.

For Meher Unnisa, I am glad she found love. It dosen`t matter what religion he belong to. If we are going to believe in her logic then tehre will be no progressive Muslim can be found in the world. Well we all know its not true. I happen to be an Indian hindu and there is a lot of pressure from my family to get married to a guy who speaks our regional language. Somehow I fell in love with a Muslim man and now converted as I hate the caste system. There some defects in Islam like all religions but educated persons and families can find a way around. IMy husbands family put great emphasis on women progress. In his family women work along side by men. Where did she found that four women = One man I guess she is reffering to witness in which saying of two women equals one man. Well Modern MUslim is not that naive to follow the Nomadic traditions. Look at Turkey, Indonesia, Eatern European Muslims and see what are they following. They don`t have to abandon Islam to be progressive. For once and all I have to clarify full pardah is not a requirement for a Muslim women. It is cultural thing and it was followed by all locals at the advent of Islam. See Prince of Egypt where all people Jews and others are wearing similar clothes like Arab national dress. In which religion nudity is tolerable. You have to cover your head if you go to religious place. Don`t you?

The life Meher Unnisa talks about is not due to being a Muslim but must be imposed by her family.

#119 by swarrier

I am glad that you are a fast learner…Seems like you were working overtime to figure out my habits or it is just a new nick for convenience? Nai jam lai purany shikary!

Anyway the point I was making was that there was no name for what we today call Hindu.

Hindu in Persian actually means dark. Since you can really Google the non existing “I” in Urdu and in Pakistan, then it should not be hard for you find that out. My Persian is little rustic but I know Hindu=dark.

So those racist Persian called Hindus darky or dorky (just my spin) and you are gladly taking that as a badge of honor.

I am glad you can identify with word Hindu that is okay for you as a person but how a religion is called “Hindu” or dark? Unless you know....

“The use of the word `Hindu` in connection with a particular religion is of very late occurrence (Nehru, The Discovery of India, (New Delhi: 1983), pp.74-75).”

Now if this religion existed as ONE religion before Muslims took over the beloved India, what was it called? Obviously, it was not called Santana Dharma or some Vedic Dharma or even Baharat Dharma.

Basically, Hindu, as we call them now, had no precise word for their religion because there was no one religion. It was all about pagan rites and rituals.

Btw, malt is not my style….

Re: # 104

HP cutie
I mean there is an I in Pakistan . Even you write it so. Now why do I care whether PayAlifKafStan has an I or not. Though I`d say Alif has an I. You know as well as I do that the land of the pure never contained such things. Be nice you made it up right now....

Googling is good for the soul. It enables one to find mines of information. They even invented a new type of ball in cricket. It`s and off break bowled with a leg break action ... Even you figured out what Sanatana Dharma was.... Isn`t that nice. Did you do your googling today. And no poor invading Afghani gave us such words. We figured it out ourself. Not like your Alif Bay Gulf of Cambay Aleph Null etc etc... Even that script had to be picked from Arabic and Persian. Be original child. Follow your own dream

Now why should Hindus have any identity crisis. You call us Hindus. We are free to call ourselves what we want. We are free spirits. Look no priests if we don`t want them, no gods (yes we have atheist philosophies) if we don`t want them , no books setting rights or wrongs.
Just some meanderings of old folks ..... Its a free for all. And Indians have never had one identity. Why would you be satisfied with one.? Variety is the spice of life old chap.

We`ve at least been trying for one identity since 1947. Seems to me you depend on us for yours. I am not Indian, not Hindu etc. boo hoo hoo......
Now come on be a good boy and admit that you are trying to find an ``I`` in identity.

Have a single malt, have two ... three..... Warm the cockles of your heart.
I raise my glass to you.

Salut.

S

re:#107 by HP
You are just being stupid.
At least hindus, despite their varied religious practices, do not kill each other on religious grounds. Shias and Sunnis regularly kill each other in Paksitan.
Most of the religous texts of hindus have been interpreted and reinterpreted and brought to modern times. You will hardly find any hindu going nuts over depiction of their Gods in bad light (barring some nutcases in RSS/VHP). The diverse views and opinions as well as practices has endowed tolerance that is found in few other religions.
Sridhar

re:#84 by swarrier
I am impressed by your knowledge!
You are right in saying that Afghanistan was fomerly called Avaghana (during the Vedic times). It later was or formed a part of what was called Bactria. It was a place where sages congregated once a year for a spiritual marathon! Later, it became a great center of Buddhism and Gandhara art.
Look what has become of it today!
Sridhar

re:#81 by jang
I do agree with your post but believe me when i say: it was tough for a Tamilian like me growing up in Delhi surrounded by Punjabees. Today (living in US) all that is a pleasant memory to be cherished but it was difficult.
Sridhar

re:#73 by kaalchakra
I also do hope Bollywood has grown out of stereotypes but such stereotypes (getting fun by mocking at other`s appearance or way of speech) are common in India. I do find Bollywood slowly growing out of this tiresome habit!
Sridhar

re:#90 by hasanmahmood
I used to respect Islam but after this cartoon controversy, i need to revise that opinion. Hindus may smell of spice but they do not go around killing people and rioting just because somebody portrayed caricature of hinduism (which, btw, is rampant).
You guys are just pathetic. There is no other word.
For people like u, the following letter should be an eyeopener. The letter is written by a Paki woman now living in USA.
(Pakistani viewpoint
Letter to the Editor

Dear Editor,

I was saddened to read the letter of Javed Altaf in the Milpitas Post dated Feb 2, ``Text clashes extremist, moderate Hindus.`` As a woman from Pakistan who immigrated to the United States, I would like to tell everyone that there are people in Pakistan who do not show such hatred toward others.

I grew up in Pakistan and we were always taught to hate India, Israel and America. Our school books described Christians, Jews and Hindus as evil people, and unfortunately most Pakistanis exhibit a lot of hatred because of this. I was ashamed when Pakistanis celebrated on the streets after innocent people were killed in the Sept. 11 attacks. Even when I got my passport, I had to sign a statement on the application form that I consider the leader of Qadiani group of Muslims to be an imposter and his followers to be non-Muslim. I felt uncomfortable signing it as I somehow thought it is a hateful thing to do. To all Qadiani brothers and sisters, I wish to apologize on behalf of Pakistanis and say I am truly sorry I signed the statement.

Fortunately, I had the chance to leave Pakistan and find freedom in America. Now, I do not have to cover myself with a burqa.

I learned that one can be a good person even without being a Muslim and I got the confidence to question Islam. Islam is an artificial religion of medieval Arabs. Why should I accept any religion that forces me to wear a burqa and prevents my education?

Mr. Altaf`s letter talks about caste system in India. I want to point out that the caste system is alive and well in Pakistan as well. It is hypocritical of Pakistanis to talk of a caste system.

The people of Pakistan are no different from the people of India except that we are born into Islam. This unfortunate difference gave birth to Pakistan, which has the dishonor of being created as the world`s first religion-based country. We should never have left India because forming a country based on religion tells the world that we are hateful people. Please tell your readers that not all Pakistanis are hateful people.(my comment: where is Manto? He should read this!)

Ironically, my own life has been one where the differences between Indians and Pakistanis have been buried. After leaving Islam, I searched for spiritual peace and met a wonderful man who is a Hindu from India. Today, he is my husband and I find that I have a lot of freedom. Women in Islam do not have any freedom and four women are considered to be equal to one man. I realize that I would not have had the opportunity to meet my husband had I not come to America and got my freedom. There are many women like me who long for freedom. I sincerely wish I could do something for my sisters or that America would liberate my sisters but without hurting the people.

Meher Unnisa

Upland, Calif.)
Sridhar

nothing special. i was thinking of Americans` efforts in reforming Shintoism half a century back. Here is a time fragment :

---

6 Aug 1945 Hiroshima.
9 Aug 1945 Nagasaki.
15 Aug 1945 Failed coup attempt.
2 Sep 1945 Foreign Minister Mamoru Shigemitsu signs the instrument of surrender aboard the USS Missouri.
27 Sep 1945 Emperor Hirohito of Japan meets with SCAP Douglas MacArthur.
1 Jan 1946 Hirohito publicly renounces his divinity.

---

Pakis destroying pakis in protest against Denmark.... this is what madrassa education does to people.....:)))


http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 02 16 story_16-2-2006_pg3_1

School and college boys had entered the streets with clubs in their hands. It was obvious that the march was planned to be violent. The way they set about breaking the cars and then setting fire to them was no spontaneous response to provocation. ......The destruction was planned and the boys knew what they had to do. Many had handguns, which they fired. On Davis Road in fact they got together in a phalanx and fired their guns in volleys.

Re: # 110 raw
[...japanese are intimately familiar with this dilemma...]

Huh? please explain...

Re: # 109 shish

Distributed computing?.... LOL .... but then HP, the madrass-educated paki wouldn`t know anything about that - would he? :))))

it is zillion times better to be told by a human about one`s existence than by a ghost in an incomprehensible language.

doubting that ghost jeopardizes the existence hence the anal-retention and all these fireworks......

japanese are intimately familiar with this dilemma...

Re: # 107

That is called distributed computing, even if one node fails/falls, others keep chugging.

Re: # 107 HP
[....are still looking for one something; history, culture or religion, and buildings ....]

You are wrong as usual..... hinuds have all the history, culture, religion, buildings that anybody ever needs......

Only people who need an ``identity`` is muslims.... a people who get riled up by a cartoon are in serious trouble - the inferiority complex is just too much - it`s killing the community..... :)))))

Since there is no history of Hindu being one religion, what we have is an accumulation of zillions of rites practiced in many parts of ancient India. That also explains the worshipping of millions of objects anywhere from insects to lizards to animals to body parts.

If the invaders had not called people living east of Indus Hindu, chances are Indians would not had one identity. That is why I say Hindus have a serious identity crisis because they are still looking for one something; history, culture or religion, and buildings to identify with.

Now I am sure Red Fort was constructed by some Hindu Raja…

Re: # 91 hasan
[.....No sir this culture is made into this mystic choo chhoo kaa murabba by the so called Western geniuses .....]

Yep - Blame it all on the West.....that always seems to work for you guys.....:) Everything can be explained away as a Western conspiracy.....

Ref: #103 by shishapa

Hello cousin,

OK...how about Bhagvan ditta, Bhagvan rakha, Bhagvan Baksh, Farhat Bhagvan, Neimat Bhagvan, Iman Bhagvan, etc.

#100 by swarrier
“And Urdu is a Deccani language or was it invented in Arabia.....-) Don`t go too far to have fun....”

Now whether Urdu is a deccani language or not does not matter (and that debate will not take you far) but the point was there is no “I” in Pakistan.



“#99 by shishapa”

“Hindavya Jaat Sarvaa”

Congratulations Shishapa! You have done it…. Now Hindu is a hindi word… or was that sanskrit?

I think Bhagvan Hafiz sounds as good as allah hafiz...

``I mean nobody had heard of Allah in the land of Pakistan before Mohammad Bin Kasim
showed up in 712AD or 732 AD! ``

Did anyone say that Islam is an Indian or Sindhi religion?
You are just making a pathetic point.

Okay, Bhagvan Hafiz!

At least Hindus call their gods with hindu names.

How about Pakistanis, do they have native name for god? Why do they call Allah,
a foreign name? Should not they be calling Bhagvan Hafiz instead of Allah Hafiz?
I mean nobody had heard of Allah in the land of Pakistan before Mohammad Bin Kasim
showed up in 712AD or 732 AD!

HP
[....That is stupid Santana Dharma just means eternal religion. ...]

So?..... it`s the name given to that religion..... The word ``Islam`` is suppsoed to mean ``submission``, but it`s the name of that religion......

Hindu is as good a name as any other - so what invaders gave it?......

Re: # 92 hassan
[....But hey we might be the camel jockeys or whatever but we still dont smell of spices :)...]

Fine - so you smell of camel p!ss :)..... anyway - I thought only arabs are known as camel jokceys.... are you an Arab?

Re: # 96

Of course. Invaders did it. Some village idiot said so recently in some post not so long ago. Or was it a savant? And Urdu is a Deccani language or was it invented in Arabia.....-) Don`t go too far to have fun....

Re: # 96

My knowledge of Rugveda has become rusty but I think there is a sholk in proto Rugved
that was composed on the banks of river Sarasvati (before it dried up) by sage Vasisth,
(the Pouresheya part in Apouresheya Veds) something like this

Hindavya Jaat Sarvaa

(Hindus went everywhere)

So there, Hindu is not a word invented by Invaders, rather foreigners, it is indigenous.
And I say foreigners and not invaders because Persians at that time did not invade India
(or Sindhia or Hindia whatever you want to call it) and even if they did, they were
not foreigners, but cousins and we do not fault cousins for pronouncing s as h.
Indians did not object when they changed Sapta to Hafta, Asura to Ahura, did they?

There, you have it.

Re: # 89 hassan
[...I am a Pakistani and I can tell Muslims don`t have an identity crisis....]

Muslims may not have an identity crisis, but the identity ``pakistani`` has been in a crisis from the beginning... at least that`s what we have been hearing from pakis themselves....

The first name derisively coined for the Indian commercial film industry was Follywood, most films were then associated with follies. In the word Bollywood that later came into usage, the B stood for Bombay and therefrom Lollywood in which L came from Lahore.
The word Hindoo was used by the goras to refer to natives of the Indian subcontinent. They did not use Indian because that description was reserved for the natives of America. Although in most countries people from India are now refered to as Indians, yet the word Hindoo is still prevalent in Western societies.
Recently I heard an East European telling me that when he was stationed in India his driver wsa a Muslim Hindoo. Now that should sound really odd, but he was actually refering to him as an Indian Muslim.

#95,
Okay Jang....

Just admit it and move on ... Hindus are hindu because invaders said so. That is all there is to it.

..But I need more fun... Okay I will pick on asadi now!

HP sain..stop scaring us ;-)

..we like being indoos (as distinct from being pakis)..dont mind if someone else gave us the name, but now everyone knows who are indoos, there is no identity crisis..unless you keep at it.

Hasanmahmood,
The word Bollywood was coined by Shoba De when she was the editor of Stardust magazine. mosy Indians dont like the word but it has stuck because its easier to say than Indian film industry. by the way Pak also now uses Lollywood. if Indian are always imitating the west [ your believe ] than Pakistanis are always aping India.

Kaurasach, there is a diff between desi and desh. Indians will say mera desh refering to India, but not desi when refering to each other except maybe in n.america.

#84, 86, 87, 88

That really burned up some behinds big time.

I knew the whole tribe of nincompoops is going to jump up to defend the ``dear old no name religion`` named by afghan as Hindu.

“The religion is also known as Sanatan Dharma....”

Village idiots will always come up with some idiotic explanation.

That is stupid Santana Dharma just means eternal religion.

“Santana Dharma is not circumscribed by the confines of a single country. It does not belong, peculiarly and for ever, to a bounded part of the world. It is a universal religion which embraces all other religions as it is eternal and everlasting. A narrow scheme of sectarian or exclusive religion can live only for a limited time and for a set purpose. At last it has to go away .one day but not so with the Santana Dharma.
Santana Dharma has no beginning. No body can say when it started. It is without a beginning and so without an end. It is eternal and everlasting. That which has a beginning, has also an end, as all beginnings have an end also. “

“Hindu is a word of recent origin. It has not at all been mentioned in the Vedas or other authoritative scriptures. The word is not even Indian in origin.”

#84
“Yes the I is supposed to stand for Iran.”

Idiots just keep coming in different colors.

There is no “I” in Pakistan…..Pakistan is in URDU “I” only comes in when you write that in English. That’s why I say these idiots have no knowledge of history and Google does not make anyone brilliant.

P=pay, A=alif, K=Kaaf and stan for Balochistan.

“It`s a corruption of Sindhu.”

Ghaday! Whether it’s a corruption of Sindhu or any other word, it is not Indian. It was given by invaders afghan or Persian whatever.

And who cares where ``stan`` came from it is not a religion....

Re: # 23
Ask a Pakistani what he thinks of as Punjabi and you will get a hateful response. As a Pakistani I can tell you there is a lot of racism in Pakistan and anyone who says otherwise is absolutely 100% wrong. But hey we might be the camel jockeys or whatever but we still dont smell of spices :)

Re: # 88
lol you really think that the culture is rich and diverse. No sir this culture is made into this mystic choo chhoo kaa murabba by the so called Western geniuses who love to sit and do the mantra all the time. This culture was not rich. Hindus were always ruled by other people and they always will be. You really think you are not that suservient then look at your media. Everything you do shows the whole world that you guys just wanna follow the goras. Does the term ``Bollywood`` ring a bell. Maybe hindus came up with it and the word ``Hollywood`` came later :). Truth is you guys will always try to be like the people who ruled you. Because you hate Muslims you chose goras to imitate. Dont worry. We all know that if Muslims were ruling most of the world you would be imitating them. ``Thousand Apologies`` from a Pakistani Muslim - :)

Re: # 87
Actually yes. Being called a hindu is the worst insult. Can you think of anything worse than being called someone who smells of spices all the time. I mean c`mon Indians; at least look around you when you are walking in a public place. Other people`s expressions will give you some clues...

Re: # 86
Well I am neither an idiot not a Bharatiya. I am a Pakistani and I can tell Muslims don`t have an identity crisis. The whole world knows that Hindus have that problem. ``Thousand Apologies`` must be ringing a bell to you; or do you want me to point out your love affair with the West and how you guys always tend to emulate the worst of the West. Calm down dude. Are you trying toi prove to the world that Hindus are better? Lol

Re: # 84 sw

HP is a known jack-a$$ and considering the paki brigrade here - that`s saying something.....

The rich and diverse Indian/Hindu/Buddhist civilization spans thousands of years and was also prevalent in the areas that is present-day Afganistan and Pakistan.....So to think that indians/hindus didn`t have an identity before the invaders came in is sheer stupidity.... but then - that`s how madrassa education works.....

kaura
[....Pathans/Afghans call Paki Punjabis ``Hindus``....]

That must be really galling to pakis - being called a ``hindu`` is supposed to be the worst insult to a paki..... I mean - look at this guy HP - he is already burning up his a$$ :))......

HP
[....What would have been the name for the religion now called Hindu?...]

The religion is also known as Sanatan Dharma.... that identity has always been there - with or without the invader-given name.... Similarly, The Indian subcontinent has always been known as Bharat and the people as Bharatiyas....

Either way - indians do NOT have an identity crisis regarding who they are and where they belong and where they are going.... And coming from a paki - that`s really rich :))

Are you stupid or just a paki?.....

#83 many forts were built on top of pre-existing forts..so elephants etc is not a big deal.