Are We The Most Racist Of Them All?

hmm.. well these racist issues are everywhere, no society is racist free. Every country you go to, there will be differences. I would say.. myself being from overseas.. when i go to pakistan i feel superior then those around me, and try to say.. ``how pindu this person is``.. its natural.. we all want to feel better then the rest.

The question of are we racist.. yes indeed we are.. there is racism problem within pakistan. People though should call themselves pakistani and be proud, inside the country they judge according to race.. sindi, pujnjabi, balochi, mohajir, pakhtoon etc.. Bt then its natural. But the problem occurs, when you work your ass off to fit into the local society of an alien socitey, then you have the right to complain.. because you atleast tried. But then they are just being humans..

Allah hafiz..

[We`re so racist that we have the heaviest biases within our tiniest microcosms. Even within our own race and our own country, we`re so fond of discriminating based on community or colour of skin. Just take a peek at the matrimonial columns that feature in the Indian newspapers, they`re awash with ads for potential brides being touted as having, ``fair complexion.`` Ever seen any that proclaim dark skin? At best, you`ll see, ``pretty girl with wheatish complexion.`` Wheatish, of course, being the local euphemism for being not too dark, in a country where just being fair-skinned automatically translates into better marriage prospects and where get Consider the much talked about craze for fairness creams: Fair & Lovely, Emami Naturally Fair, Himalaya Herbal Cream.. the list is endless. Seems like the best business to get into in India today, everyone`s jumping on the bandwagon. The fairy-tale promotions for fairness creams on television often show a pretty, dusky girl opting for such-and-such fairness cream because she isn`t happy with her skin colour. Not getting enough attention. Uses the cream then, turns her white as a ghost and ta da! Cut to the girl walking around a college campus armed with a bouquet and blushing around a bunch of swooning guys going ga-ga and banging into lamposts.

Now what is this but pure racism? ]



No, I don`t think this is racism at all.

Everybody has a right to marry whatever kind of person they want. And if they prefer lighter complexions, that is their choice. In the Western societies, the overwhelming majority of people prefer the ``whiter`` or the ``more blonde`` complexion. No one thinks twice about it. There is a reason that in the English language the word ``fair`` is synonymous with beauty.

I think people like this author have to get over their complexes.

In fact, amongst my darker complexioned friends, there is a MUCH higher bias against darker complexions. At the same time, they complain how people are biased against darker complexioned people. One of my friends (who is very dark complexioned), and had an arranged marriage, confided to me ``I told my parents that my ONLY requirement is that she be VERY fair complexioned``.

Complete hypocrites.

Get over your own limitations and complexes, and feel free to like what you like.

Re: # 161

people are entitled to go for what they want. Thats without question. But i think that what the writer is questioning here is the reasoning. And the inability of a lot of people to question their reasoning. Its not objectable for one to prefer a blonde over a brunette......or a brunette over a blonde for that matter. However when you come out with a vague, universal statement....alomost a law.... such as ``fairer girls are prettier than darker girls`` surely you can see there is a problem with this. It seems to be taken for granted. If not...then u probably wouldnt have any problems with a statement such as ``it is better to be born white than asian``...or ``it is better to have a baby boy than a baby girl``

basically our world does not change unless we change. It is probably no wonder that your ``very dark complexioned friend`` wanted a ``very fair bride``......he probably had personal experience of the negative bias that people carry....only problem is that he succombed to it rather than challenging it.

#147 by hasanmahmood

[....because I have been to India and I know what good looks mean in your country and trust me that is the reason why it is considered a previlige for you guys to get married to someone in Pakistan. ]


I know of a couple of cases within my friend circle amongst American Born Indian guys where Pakistani girls wanted to marry them but the families on both sides came in the way.

Also, I found out from my Iranian friends how it is considered in Iranian society a ``step down`` if they marry a Pakistani. If an Iranian marries a Pakistani, his/her family tries to keep it discreet from other Iranians. It turns out that Iranians consider Pakistanis less cultured than them as well as less ``white``.

I have also heard from Russians (from the provinces bordering Iran) that for them it is a definite step down if they marry Iranians who they consider less ``white``, whereas Iranians themselves consider Russians ``truly white``.

In many parts of the Indian Hindu society, for example, it would be considered a SERIOUS step down if someone married a Pakistani SOLELY because they are considered less ``cultured``.

Funny, isn`t it, how the world works.


And by the way, although Pakistan started the Kargil War, they did lose the war rather badly. Don`t listen to the Pakistani dictators - read the reports from around the globe.

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#148 by hasanmahmood

[Secondly you really think you broke the country. No dude, the Bengalis broke the country. You just helped them. We actually did break your Baharat maa.]

The why did 93,000 of your brave soldiers endure a humiliating surrender? Was your dad one among them?

#148 by hasanmahmood

[lol, the whole world knows that India lost in Kargil but of course you won`t know that. You have too much pride. The only reason soldiers were brought back from the ``Indian Occupied Territory`` was because nobody wanted a full-fledged war.]

Which world? The alternate world in which Pakis are well respected without being subjected to humiliating strip searches, where Pakistan is not THE hotbed of terrorism? That `world` sadly exists only for Pakis. Others live in the real world.

If India lost, why did Nawaz Sharif run uninvited to Washington DC on July 4? To beg a reprieve for India? LOL! Why were bodies of dead Paki soldiers left behind? As souvenirs for the Indian Army? LOL!

[Secondly you really think you broke the country. No dude, the Bengalis broke the country. You just helped them.]

OK, if that doesn`t hurt your ego, but FYI, the Mukti Bahini, the Bengalis who broke Pakistan, were armed, trained, and financed by India.

[We actually did break your Baharat maa. If you guys would not have killed millions of Sikhs in the riots you probably would have lost more.]

When and where did Pakis break Bharat Mata? Please let us know, we`re waiting with bated breaths.

[By the way can you really ask the women you know from India whether or not they were raped by the so-called goras who they die to imitate nowadays.]

I have no clue but ask your mom, she`ll know.

#147 by hasanmahmood on February 17, 2006 6:57am PT

[I have been to India and I know what good looks mean in your country and trust me that is the reason why it is considered a previlige for you guys to get married to someone in Pakistan.]

I`m sure you`re after an Indian gal who refuses to give you time of the day which is why you fantasize about Indian women dying to marry Paki `hunks`. But yeah Paki `hunks` like Maulana Fazlur Rahman, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam Ul Haq, Abdul Razzaq, Mohammad Yousuf and Danish Kaneria with their looks would really do any woman proud.

146, 147, 148, 149

You are right that the Bengalis broke Pakistan and they were helped by India. Any patriotic Pakistani would have died of shame before saying this. Probably in your lifetime you will also have the chance to say that first the Baluchis, followed by the Sindhis and then the Muhajirs and finally the Pakhtoons broke up Pakistan and India helped them!

It is also good to be proud of good looks of Pakistanis (although I have seen several ugly and filthy specimens). Just stop for a moment and think of your origins. You have neither fallen from heaven nor airdropped from Arabia. Just go back a few generations and you will find that your forefathers were a biproduct from rape of Hindu women, mostly from menial class, by the Muslim invaders. This progeny was forcibly converted to Islam. So you are just a convert having enough low caste Hindu blood( may be mehtar)and cow urine in your system. With that revelation you do not feel so proud any more, is it? Just take it easy with the superiority bit and remember you are just Indians what turned paki and you will be a more content man.

re: #149 by hasanmahmood
(ol, the whole world knows that India lost in Kargil but of course you won`t know that...)
It is always a pleasure to educate morons like you.
Go to the Kargil Timeline link and see what it says.
The following is from the above link:
Url: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/391361.stm
(....Mr Sharif will have to explain to Pakistanis that they have not suffered a defeat in the two-month conflict, and that support for Kashmiri separatists has not suffered a blow.

Pakistan began putting pressure on the infiltrators to leave after Mr Sharif agreed with President Clinton a week ago that ``concrete measures`` should be taken to restore the Line of Control which divides Kashmir.

On Sunday, Pakistan and India agreed on a plan for the infiltrators to withdraw from their positions, bringing a halt to the fighting....)
Sridhar

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re:#146 by hasanmahmood
Ha, ha, ha.
I strongly recommend the sample i sent Beharam. He may have some left (the stuff is costly and specially prepared for Pakis). It is guaranteed to improve your I.Q level.
Sridhar

re:swang 142
More on Islamic tolerance: as told by a muslim
(re: From the pages of the book: Leaving Islam-Apostates speak out (by Ibn Warraq)
( Why I Left Islam

I am often asked, Why I left Islam?. As absurd as it may be, some Muslims cannot even allow themselves to think that leaving Islam is an option, or even possible. They rather think that those who leave Islam are paid Jewish agents than accept the fact that people have freedom to think and some may even think that Islam is not for them. The following are my reasons.

Not until few years ago I used to think that my faith in Islam was not based on blind imitation but rather was the result of years of investigation and research. The fact that I had read a lot of books on Islam, written by people whose thoughts I approved of and delving into philosophies that were within my comfort zone, emphasized my conviction that I had found the truth. All my bias research confirmed my faith. Just like other Muslims I used to believe that to learn about anything one has to go to the source. Of course the source of Islam is Quran and the books written by Muslim scholars. Therefore, I felt no need to look elsewhere in order to find the truth, as I was convinced that I have already found it. As Muslims say “Talabe ilm ba’d az wossule ma’loom mazmoom”. The search of knowledge after gaining it is foolish

Of course, this is a foolish idea. What if we want to learn the truth about one of these dangerous cults? Is it enough to depend only on what the cult leader and his deluded followers say? Wouldn’t it be prudent to widen our research and find out what other people have to say about them? Going to the source makes sense only in scientific matters, because scientists are not “believers”. They do not say something because they have blind faith. Scientists make a critical analysis of the evidence. It is very much different from religious approach that is based entirely on faith and belief.

I suppose it was my acquaintance with the western humanistic values that made me more sensitive and whet my appetite for democracy, freethinking, human rights, equality, etc. It was then that when I read again Quran I came across injunctions that were not al par with my newfound humanistic values, I was distressed and felt very uncomfortable to read teachings like these.

Q.3: 5
”But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have gone astray”.

Q.16: 106
”Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.”

One may think that the dreadful penalty mentioned here pertains to the next word. But Muhammad made sure that these people received their penalty in this world as well. See the following:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:

I heard the Prophet saying, ``In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection.``

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 63, Number 260:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn `Abbas, who said, ``Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, `Don`t punish (anybody) with Allah`s Punishment.` No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, `If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.` ``

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 63, Number 261:

Eight men of the tribe of `Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, ``O Allah`s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.`` Allah`s Apostle said, ``I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.`` So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.

And from Partial Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4339

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu`minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) Said: The blood of a Muslim man who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah`s Apostle should not lawfully be shed except only for one of three reasons: a man who committed fornication after marriage, in which case he should be stoned; one who goes forth to fight with Allah and His Apostle, in which case he should be killed or crucified or exiled from the land; or one who commits murder for which he is killed.

The following is very disturbing. I dare to say any man who read it and is not taken aback with disgust has a long way to go to become a human.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348

”Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood``.

I felt the above story was a manifest injustice. Muhammad condoned a man killing a pregnant mother and his own unborn child just because he said that she insulted him!?

(Arabs used to sleep with their maid slaves. Quran perpetuates this tradition Q.33: 52 “It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens): and Allah doth watch over all things.” Muhammad himself slept with Mariyah the maid slave of Hafsa his wife without marrying her.)

Forgiving someone for killing another human being just because he said she insulted Muhammad is unacceptable. What if that man was lying to escape punishment? What dose this story say about Muhammad’s sense of Justice? Imagine how many innocent women, were killed by their husbands during these 1400 years who escaped punishment accusing their murdered wives of blaspheming the prophet of God and this Hadith has made them get away with it.

Here is another one.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4349

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

It was not easy to read these stories and not be moved. There is no reason to believe that all these stories were fabricated. Why should believers, who have tried to depict their prophet as a compassionate man fabricate so many stories that would make him look like ruthless tyrant?

I could no more accept the brutal treatment of those who chose not to accept Islam. Faith is a personal matter. I could no more accept that the punishment of someone who criticizes any religion must be death.

See how Muhammad dealt with the unbelievers.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4359

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The verse ``The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite side or exile from the land...most merciful`` was revealed about polytheists. If any of them repents before they are arrested, it does not prevent from inflicting on him the prescribed punishment, which he deserves.”

How could a messenger of God maim and crucify people on the account that they resist accepting him? Could such person be really a messenger of God? Wasn’t there a better man with more moral an ethical fortitude to bear this mighty responsibility?

I could not accept the fact that Muhammad slaughtered 900 Jews in one day, after he captured them in a raid that he started. I read the following story and I shivered.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4390

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:
I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair

Also I found following story shocking.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4396

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off. He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his foot.
So his (left) foot was cut off.
He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his hand. (So his (left) hand was cut off.)
He was brought a fourth time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off.
He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him.
So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him.

Seems that Muhammad passed judgment before hearing the case. Also by cutting a thief’s hand he is left with no other means to earn his bread except begging, which would be difficult since he is defamed as a thief and so hated by people. Therefore re-offending becomes his only means of livelihood.

After living many years in the West and being received kindly by people of other religions or of no religion, who loved me and accepted me as their friend; who let me into their lives and their heart. I could no more accept the following mandates of Quran as the words of God.

Q.58: 22
“You will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger…”

Q.3: 118-120
“O you who believe! Take not as (your) bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made clear to you the aayaat (proofs, evidence, verses), if you understand. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e., you believe in the Tawraat and the Injeel, while they disbelieve in your Book (the Qur’aan)]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly Allaah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’ If a good befalls you, it grieves them, but some evil overtakes you, they rejoice at it…”

And

Q.5: 51
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…”

I also found the above statement false. The evidence is in the Bosnia and Kosovo crisis; where Christian countries, waged war against another Christian country, to liberate Muslims. Many Jewish doctors volunteered to help the Kosovar refugees, despite the fact that during the WWII, the same Albanian Muslims took side with Hitler and helped him in his holocaust against the Jews.

It became obvious to me that Muslims are accepted by all the people of the world yet our prophet wants us to hate them, to disassociate ourselves from them, to force them into our way of life or kill them, subdue them and make them pay Jizya. How silly! How pathetic! How inhumane! No wonder there is so much inexplicable hate of the West and of the Jews among Muslims. It was Muhammad who inseminated the hate and the distrust of the non-believers among his followers. How Muslims can ever integrate with other nations while holding these hateful massages of Quran as the words of God?

There are many Muslims who immigrate to non-Muslim countries and are received with open arms. Many of them get into politics and become part of the ruling elite. We suffer no discrimination in the non-Islamic countries. But see how our holy prophet tells us to deal with non-Muslims were we are the majority.

Q.9: 29
”Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

I also find the following verses completely against my conscience. I love all humanity and wish everyone to be happy in this world and forgiven in the next. But my holy prophet bade me not to seek forgiveness for the unbelievers even if they are my parents and beloved ones.

(Interpretation of the meaning by Muhsin Khan):

Q.9: 113
“It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allaah’s forgiveness for the mushrikeen, even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the Fire (because they died in state of disbelief).”

Quarn and Ahadith are full of outrageous verses like these that to me are clear proof that Muhammad was not a prophet, but a cult leader. To force people to denounce their own family is what cults do. He was an impostor who lied so loudly and so forcefully that the ignorant people of his time believed in him. Then the following generations echoed this lies passing it to the next. Philosophers and writers were born in this atmosphere of lies and elaborated on it, embellished it, and made it credible. But when you go to the core of it, when you read Quran and study the Ahadith you see it is nothing but lie.

I know my words can be upsetting. But I urge you, to take control of your anger, read my other articles and muse on them.

As you see my rejection of Islam is not based on the bad deeds of Muslims but on the bad deeds of its author. All the cruelties and heinous acts of violence, perpetrated by Muslims throughout the centuries were inspired by Quran and Sunnah (the example of the prophet) That is why I condemn Islam for the bad things that Muslims do. I know any effort to humanize the Islamic community is a waste of time. The enemy is Islam and that is the target of my attacks. I do that despite having become the magnet of the hatred of all fanatical Muslims. There is no gain in this for me. The only reason I am so adamant against Islam is to liberate the world from the claws of this satanic cult and restore peace and prosperity, love and amity amongst the children of man.

By. Ali Sina)
Sridhar
P.S: Any comments Swang?
Jakey apney shohar ka bistar garam karo. Aur tum muslim khawatoonon ko aata bhi kya hai?

149/hasan

nah - we reserve the spicy smelling spit for muslims these day..... you know being evil and all that - we have to do all that stuff to make sure muslims are oppressed properly....

Swang

Enjoy your personal life. May it be long and happy. But, if you are a normal person, exposing it to scrutiny and attacks on Chowk isn`t a swell idea.

#142 by swang

[OR its just you are toying with me because I am from lower caste.]

Enough already, stop playing the victim! How would the guy know you`re from a lower caste? Please use your head once in a while.