Mohammad Who?

#361 by nasah on February 18, 2006 10:10pm PT


the crypto-racist author is implying that the entire Muslim community of one billion combines to raise the few suicide bombers..!


No...it`s actually true, not racist at all..the majority of the one billion muslims pull the whole ``we condemn the (insert terrorist act) but we understand the root cause of (same terrorist act).``..In a way, they rationalize it..tell me something, do we care about a root cause in the case of rape..perhaps the person was too ugly/poor to get laid..no, we don`t..they why are brit muslims talking about the ``root causes`` of the london suicide bombings? shouldn`t suicide bombing be condemnable whatever the root cause?

By pointing to the Islamist(always Islamist) root cause, the muslims of the world create conditions where sympathizing with the islamist cause is just one step away from doing ``something`` about it..

There is no racism here..The message is targeted towards the adherents of a particular religion..

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with the ``feelings and motives`` of the suicide bombers who attacked London last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.

``it takes an entire village to raise a single child`. Similarly, it takes a very large community, often entire nations, to raise a single suicide bomber.``(KPS Gill via Arjun miaN)

this is one of the stupidest over generalization I have ever read -- (besides being the corruption of one of the most beautiful Indian American sayings) the crypto-racist author is implying that the entire Muslim community of one billion combines to raise the few suicide bombers..!

by this criteria every community including the Hindus the Sikhs the Christians and the Jews are responsible for laying and raising all the bad stinking eggs of their respective communties --

if applied universally accordingly to Gillian Law every community in its entirety should burn in a very cramped hell ...till eternity.

.....absolutely ridiculous -- it`s literary bigotry and intellectual dishonesty of the third rate bazaari kind......

Re: # 361 nasah

Well - there is some truth to it..... when you start dressing up toddlers as suicide bombers - then you pretty much have crossed the rubicon.... you have ``institutionalized`` the hatred and the paranoia....

KPS Gill is not too far off the mark there....

#359 by Arjun

Bravo dear Arjun! Keep it up.

In fact the institutionalized obscurantism, which signifies almost all dogmatic religions, is based on so childish a comlex of fallacies that it must be protected by rigid system of taboos, else even a half-wit would argue it to pieces. Its first concern of necessity be to penalize the free play of ideas which pose a challenge to its survival and that of the vested interests dependent upon it.

Tolerating Islamist intolerance

KPS Gill

A great deal has been written on the `cartoon controversy`, but it is far from enough. The current storm of orchestrated violence and intimidatory protests across the world is symbolic of a deep and sustained intolerance among Muslims, and of rising levels of tolerance of Muslim intolerance, that jointly undermine the possibility of freedom in large parts of the world.

Crucially, it is precisely this tolerance of intolerance that has allowed vocal and violent radicalised Islamist minorities to silence Muslim majorities and to transform the global image of Islam into the grotesque parody of the faith that the Danish cartoons sought - perhaps indelicately - to reflect.

Offensive though these cartoons may have been - and they were not offensive to at least some Muslims, who saw in them, not an insult to the Prophet or the faith, but rather a critique of the unrelenting violence that has become the defining character of much of the Muslim world - the criminal incitement and calls to `butcher/kill/behead those who insult Islam` have only reinforced the images the cartoons reflected, ``allowing mass hysteria to define Islam`s message``.

What dishonours Islam more? A few irreverent cartoons? Or the acts of remorseless murder, of relentless violence against people of other faiths, of the intimidation and abuse of all other faiths and communities, which the Islamists - including states adhering to the Islamist ideology, such as Pakistan - routinely engage in? Why, then, does the Muslim world not rise up in rage against these fanatics and political opportunists who are bringing disgrace and disrepute to their faith? Why are the voices of criticism against extremist Islam and Islamist terrorism so muted?

Indeed, why is it that all occasional and invariably qualified criticism of these terrorists is accompanied by vague justifications of the need to `understand root causes` and the `hurt` caused to the `Muslim psyche`? Is the `Muslim psyche` uniquely susceptible to injury?

Venomous characterisations of Hindus, Jews, Christians and, generally, all kafirs, are the stock-in-trade of the discourse in some Muslim countries, often communicated through official media, such as national television channels. The ideologies of hatred against other faiths are systematically propagated in so many Muslim states - we in India are familiar with the Pakistani case, where school curricula routinely demonise non-Muslims.

And do the words or pictures or caricatures by non-Muslims do more injury to the `Islamic world` than the hideous acts of terrorism that Islamists have been inflicting on non-Muslims - and, indeed, on so many Muslims - all over the world? Worse, after so many Muslim-majority states have simply wiped out their own minorities, or are, even today, in the process of doing so, these very states go shrieking around about `hurting the sentiments of minorities` when something is said against Muslims or Islam.

Indeed, `Islamic` states oppress even their own sectarian minorities - be they non-Wahabbi Sunnis in some cases, or Shia, Ismaili, Ahmadiya, or Sufi, in others - not only through systematic denial of elementary religious rights to these sects, but, as in the case of Pakistan, through state sponsored terrorist movements against such minorities - recall that the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan was set up by General Zia-ul-Haq to target Shias in the wake of the Iranian revolution, and continued to enjoy the support of the state under successor regimes, till it got mixed up with the Al Qaeda and anti-US terrorism, and lost its status as a sarkari (state supported) jihadi organisation.

Many `Islamic` countries have institutionalised this intolerance, outlawing the public practice of any other Faith, and made the possession of any religious icon, other than Muslim, a punishable offence. Non-Muslim minorities live in abject terror of blasphemy laws in Pakistan, as in many other Muslim countries.

The truth is, the state lies behind much of the Islamist extremism and frenzy that we are witnessing today. To return to the case of the Danish cartoons, there was no `spontaneous outburst` of popular sentiment; it was only after the Organisation of Islamic Countries decided to whip up emotions around the issue, and states like Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Saudi Arabia began to incite the rabble through official statements and actions, or statements by religious leaders tied to the regimes there, disseminated through official media, that the violent street protests commenced.

In Pakistan, the protests and the violence have principally been led by the Jamaat-ud-Dawa - the reincarnation of the purportedly `banned` Lashkar-e-Toiba - which has flourished under state patronage, and that was cast by the Musharraf administration into a `leadership` role recently in the relief operations after the earthquake that devastated parts of Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

But the `cartoon crisis` is not unique. Even while this controversy was raging across the world, Shia minorities were being attacked by Sunni terrorists in Pakistan; in the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir, a case was registered against the local chapter of the Bible Society of India for the `grievous crime` of distributing ``gas cylinders, three water bottles, audio cassettes and a copy of the New Testament in Urdu`` to earthquake victims in a village in Uri.

In Ladakh, riots were engineered between Muslims and Buddhists because some torn pages of the Quran were recovered, leading to allegations of sacrilege. In the Aligarh Muslim University, a young girl was being threatened with collective rape for daring to protest against a diktat against wearing jeans and a T-shirt. These are only a few current and proximate examples of a remorseless oppression over the decades.

Such thuggeries are, of course, not unique to Islam. There are extremist groups drawing dubious `inspiration` from other faiths who ape such conduct as well, and Valentines Day this year - as in the past few years - attracted the ire and violence of Hindu extremist hooligans. But these remain - fortunately - aberrations in the larger context of conduct among adherents of other faiths. They have increasingly become the dominant form of public articulation in the Muslim community.

There is an American Indian saying: `it takes an entire village to raise a single child`. Similarly, it takes a very large community, often entire nations, to raise a single suicide bomber. For far too long, extremist Muslim discourse has been tolerated - to the point of incitement to murder - in the belief that acts of terrorism are distinct from such ideologies of hatred. But it is the wide acceptance within large sections of Muslim communities in many countries of these ideologies of hatred that produce the environment within which groups can mobilise, recruit motivate, train and deploy terrorists and suicide bombers.

Muslim liberals have long advocated `understanding and tolerance` when dealing with Muslim sensibilities, but have seldom been known to aggressively argue for greater `understanding and tolerance` for other faiths in `Islamic` countries, where the record of intolerance towards and oppression of religious minorities is utterly revolting. There is a great `Muslim exceptionalism` at work here.

The `Muslim world` demands an absolute freedom without limits, but confers no freedom whatsoever, either on other faiths, or on dissent within its own faith. The `tolerance` advocated by certain passages in the Quran is only something to parade at inter-faith conferences, and constitutes no part of the practice of most Muslim majority states - no doubt with occasional exceptions.

The demand, today, to impose a selective censorship in Europe on speech that is insulting to Muslims - when similar speech against other faiths enjoys full freedom - is an effort by Muslim minorities to impose, through mass violence and intimidation, their belief systems within the larger systems they have come to inhabit.

Europe would be, not only foolish, but suicidal, if it succumbs to this terrorism and coercion to invent new curbs on the media and on the freedom of speech. The democratic world must remain committed to its enlightenment values and ideals, and to the rough-and-tumble of free discourse in the `marketplace of ideas`. All communal thuggeries, whatever faith they may claim to `represent`, must be brought to an end, and every available means must be bent to this purpose.

Personally, I think, the more fun we make of our own religions, the better it will be for the whole world, and, indeed, for our respective Faiths. I am immensely proud of being a Sikh, and am confident that no jokes or cartoons can ever undermine the eternal verities of my religion.

#357 by mohar11 on February 17, 2006 12:27pm PT


Me and urstruly in same place?


Northwest flights usually have a layover in Detriot..so same place physically as maulana urstruly is quite possible..same place mentally, no chance..

#355 by Mantolives on February 17, 2006 7:45am PT


I passed by the ``Jamaat-ud-dawa`` office late at night... and it was still open uncharacteristically...


The fact that there is a Lashkar-e-toiba office at all should be uncharacteristic, non?

Dear arjun...

The reality is as always nuanced.

Lashkar-e-taiba was indeed behind it... but in fuelling these hooligans ...

I passed by the ``Jamaat-ud-dawa`` office late at night... and it was still open uncharacteristically...

#346 by Mantolives on February 16, 2006 9:55pm PT


Well... it was hooliganism and nothing more really


Umm..Your own rag, the daily times, says the riots were orchestrated by the banned jihadi group Lashkar-e-Taiba..you know ,the jihadi groups pakis tell us don`t exist.

Also we now learn that the riots were spurred by poverty, poverty pakis tell us doesn`t exist..

Pakistani riots about more than cartoons
Violent protests may have been influenced by poverty as much as religious fervor.
By David Montero | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

Over the past week, Islam and religious fervor have been fingered as the source of the spreading violence. But to some analysts, the erratic nature of the demonstrations points to different root causes.

The flash conflagrations, they argue, highlight a profound discontent in Paki-stan over economic and social inequality that has deepened over the past five years, sparking alienation and resentment.

While the attacks on Western restaurants, cars, and banks have been read as an attack on the West, those targets are potent symbols simply of privilege and status that is beyond the reach of much of Pakistan`s population.

``In Western society, only the common man eats at KFC. But in Pakistan, these are eateries of the most privileged,`` says Rasul Bakhsh Rai, a professor at the Lahore University of Management Sciences.

``And he ain`t the only one living in there :)......``

You mean you share the eternal abode with Urstruly?

Re: # 352 YLH

Me and urstruly in same place? No chance of that happening.....:)

I meant YOU, my friend.... In many ways urstruly is mentally close to the paki reality - the land of thousand jihads - jihad for kashmir, jihad for cartoons, jihad for anything at all..... YOU, on the other hand, is way removed from the reality of pakistan....

The irony is that - you live in land of jihad where as Urstruly lives in land of the kaffir..... Ah well - life is full of such ironies :))).....

Urstruly`s ``BASTILLE DAY``... as if the richest people ride on motorcycles...

What did my motorcycle do?

LAHORE: Union Bank employee Muhammad Haroon found his motorcycle burnt by the mob that robbed businesses and banks and set vehicles on fire to express solidarity with the Muslim world against cartoons published in European newspapers.

Haroon, who gives credit cards for commission, went to his office at Associated House Metropolitan Bank on Edgerton Road on Tuesday. He parked his motorcycle (LXT-7763) outside the building. He and his colleagues were working when they heard loud cries and looked outside to find violent thugs burning vehicles outside the LDA plaza and destroying and robbing McDonalds and Habib Bank.

The mob then turned to the Associated House and began taking out petrol from motorcycles parked outside the building. A guard tried to stop them when they tried to enter the building. He opened fire and killed two hooligans. The mob first set all motorcycles and cars in the building on fire and then burnt the Metropolitan Bank. Several members of the staff could not come out of the building for about ten minutes and were suffocated by heavy smoke. The police then dispersed the rabble to allow them to escape.

Talking to Daily Times, Haroon said he earned a few thousand rupees a month and had saved for long to buy a motorcycle. He wondered what his motorcycle had to do with the issue and how he would overcome the loss in his modest income with which he also supported his family. “I cannot visit my clients using public transport,” he said.

Haroon said more than twenty motorcycles and five cars were parked in and outside the building, and were completely destroyed.

Hassan Khan, a World Link Travels employee said he and other travel agents held a peaceful protest outside Lahore Press Club, but in the afternoon some violent protestors burnt his travel agency. He said the protestors seemed to be from some banned militant organisation because they seemed trained. He said 15 such people were leading a group of about 100 thugs, mostly madrassa students.

Over 400 markets and business centres were closed and the violence caused damage worth billions of rupees to public and private property.

On another note... only a disgusting freak applauds the burning of motorcycles of the working class people, the clerks and poor fellows who got their motorcycles on lease and who didn`t have their motorcycles insured...

Hooligans from the city- young boys aged 15 - representing the moral and character decay in our educational system- got out of their colleges and destroyed private property, poor people`s shops and motorcycles...

They didn`t care about the prophet... social change etc... these little college kids only wanted destruction and they destroyed the means of transportation of lower middle and middle class folk... while the rich and the richer and the richest took a day off and shook their head at the stupidity of the idiots... And this fool Urstruly... the evergreen expatriate chuddoo ... is celebrating Bastille Day...

Fools` paradise... thats what I call where Urstruly lives.

Re: # 349 YLH
[....Fools` paradise... thats what I call where Urstruly lives....]

And he ain`t the only one living in there :)......

Oye Mullay...

Still dreaming big I see..

Like I said... that when Bastille Day actually happens in Pakistan... I`ll be your Robespierre...

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