Husain, Hinduism, Hindustan: Testing Tolerance

Mohar11#64:
``...Actually that`s your word -``

My word was qualified and wrt religious matters. Here is what I had said,

``During the good old days, no Hindu would have given a whit about how their gods or goddesses were portrayed; Hussain`s nude painting of Saraswati existed for twenty years before the VHP goons went after him.``

masadi: as i said, dont take isolated verses, but look at the over-all thrust of the message. here you go a step further and no just take an isolated verse, you stretch it to justify your ``harsh speech`` for some supposed ``injustice`` done to you. If this is not wilful violation of the book you hold in such high reverence, then I dont know what is!!

#66 Chowkstaff a bug in your tea - 66 was not what I posted...

this is what I posted -
Was wah wah DM sahib, that #60 had one hell of a line. You know how to cut throats with a meethi churi. Let us see how many can figure it out....

DM in 60
nasah:

I suspect that Hindus were never as tolerant as they like to believe. It is easy to be tolerant of others when you are ruled by them, the test of tolerance comes when you are the rulers. But I do believe that the Hindu religion is tolerant, probably due to necessity as pluralism is built-into it.

Re: # 65 DM

OK - gotcha.... my bad :)

queesn cut&paste:

``You know how to cut throats with a meethi churi. Let us see how many can figure it out.... ``

...even I can`t (the meetha or the churi part!)

Re: # 61

I doubt Sreesanth is Christian. His father and mother are Nairs according to what I read. That would make him a Hindu. The crossing himself might be a fashion statement. Nothing in our religion that stops us from adopting the latest fashions. -)

FV
You ask why Hussain has to be validated by members of the majority community?

Now did he ask for the validation or was it that other people like to share the limelight.

In the normal scheme of things in India as in many other countries you know that most people stay away from art. How many average people come to Jehangir art gallery in a day? Very few. After all very few of us can be uplifted by art if it requires us to spend some time contemplating it, when we have to get home and cook or eat. So Husain gets famous by being rediscovered again and again by socialites and art critics and reviled by political aspirants of all faiths. And because of that he gets validated by enlightened members of the majority community who want to show they are civilised. They have the time either because they are rich enough (Wranglers, Givenchi to boot) or some of them are itching to be the intelligentsia ( Picture the jhola carrying, slightly unkempt hair and beard , chappals , with the standard Ayn Rand or Nikos Kazantsakis in the jhola, at least they used to be). Though I admit some are in earnest.
The rest of the crowd , majority or minority are too mad with fighting in trains , buses, standing in queues trying to get home...easy fodder for anybody to whip up a frenzy. But they couldn`t care a tinkers damn about art unless somebody rubbed their noses in it and they were told ``THIS IS A BAD THING``.
Cross cultural marriages don`t require artistic licence. Nor do they linger in public memory and the people who die in those normally are normally the ones in villages far away from the public ken. Not newsworthy The ones that succeed even those of famous people ala Shah Rukh Khan, Sunil Shetty etc are hardly newsworthy. And child marraiges and devdasis are slightly distasteful aren`t they? Not fun to be associated with.

M F Hussain is news. Has any socialite tried to patronise Baba Amte? Is he considered photogenic enough...

S

Farzana is getting more criticism than is her due.

Two charges that are being `blamed` on her, are quite old, and have been invented and propogated for years by Nehru-era Hindu leftists themselves: (1) Hindus are not a tolerant people. They *have* to be or are * forced to be * tolerant because of (include conditions here, to match taste and prejudice). (2) Hindus are not a tolerant people. They * pretend * to be tolerant, engaging thus in a constant and deliberate, mass conspiracy, pursuing the collective objective of destroying other religions. Hindus` alleged tolerance is thus either unreal or is a sign of their great intolerance (with the corollary perhaps, that some others` alleged intolerance is unreal and is a sign of their great tolerance).

What led to these brilliant insights - gargantuan, almost Thaparian in proportion, and fundamental to nehruvian-leftist worldview, is not known to me. I bring them up only to protest some unfair criticism of the author.

Re: # 71 kaal

Just because leftists came up with original idea - doesn`t mean FV should be off the hook... Bullsh!t is bullsh!t - no matter who spouts it.....

For people like FV or leftists [ notice how leftist and islamists come together nicely on this :)].... it`s same old recycled garbage.... tells you looose, heads I win kind of logic... If hinuds do ``tolerate`` MF hussain nude paintings, then that means the cunning hindus are trying to hatch a conspiracy to hinduise everybody........ And if they do protest - then they are being ``intolerant``....

Stupidity of these people knows no bounds.....

Re: # 70 sw

The point is that - it`s a common for indian christians to have hindu-sounding names.....

Real Hinduism in its art form is one of the most exquisitely beautiful unabashedly romantic pleasurable natural religions of the world -- celeberating sex as one of the holiest natural acts as the creator of precious Human Life...(in this regard the JudeoChristianislamic religion is totally and sinfully f`cked up)

now in that kind of Queen of religions where do such crass creatures like the Hussain Hating Hindutva Hyenas fit.....?

well what can I say -- even a Queen of Qeens has to relieve herself -- once or twice in 24 hours.....to avoid the gastrointestinal flatulence that may lead her soft vulnerable belly -- to a surgical emergency......notwithstanding her refined beauty....

Coming back on topic, the whole point of this article is this..:So what if muslims have a fatwa on rushdie and have put out a hit on the danish cartoonists and were carrying signs demanding the beheading of the cartoonists..hindus dragged m.f. hussain`s millionaire ass to the police chowkie too so they`re just as bad..

BTW: Is there any paki artist who`s as rich and successful as hussain?


Cleric Offers $1 Million to Kill `Cursed Man`

By RIAZ KHAN, Associated Press Writer 38 minutes ago

PESHAWAR, Pakistan - A Pakistani cleric announced a $1 million bounty for killing a cartoonist who drew the Prophet Muhammad caricatures, as thousands rallied across the country Friday and authorities arrested scores of protesters.

Re: # 69

But I do believe that the Hindu religion is tolerant, probably due to necessity as pluralism is built-into it. - is what you said.

If that is not a telling statement then what is?

This one line taken in the context of the cartoon saga and other sagas indicates where you stand vis-avis cartoon saga notwithstanding the other statements you made earlier. the key words and equations you form are tolerant, religion,, hindusim, pluralism; pluraism(tolerance)=religion(hinduism)

queen_cut&paste#76:

This far fetched association is in your mind, not mine.

There is nothing hidden in that statement. It is quite explicit, namely, that the Hindu religion is really an umbrella of several faiths, encompassing several books, and includes philosophies as varied as agnositicism, monotheism, polytheism, etc. So, if they insist upon a exclusive philosophy, they will have to face a lot of internal strife. It is not a coincidence, in my opinion, that the Hindus who have created more strife with other sects and with non-hindus are Arya Samajis who have taken this exclusivist approach in Hinduism more than the other sects.

This is totally unrelated to my views re. danish cartoons.

Re: # 74 nasah
[...where do such crass creatures like the Hussain Hating Hindutva Hyenas fit.....?...]

Nowhere - hindutva creatures have no place in hinduism.....

And equally important question is - where do this ``creature`` fit in, the ``creature`` who brands Hussain as a stooge, a charlatan and wants him arrested?..... The ``creature`` who decries the tolerant people that support Hussain in his quest for freedom of artisitc expression.....?

Where does she fit in?....

in the blind land of tachy calender painters and their Blind Barouque Buyers -- MF Husain is a definitely a one eyed jack.....for my taste -- he started as a Talkie poster painter and he remains a Tachy poster painter.....

#79 by nasah on February 17, 2006 12:27pm PT

his paintings, frankly, suck...but he sells them for millions..so he`s not the fool, it`s the people buying his paintings who`re the fools

It`s like the fat guy from office space says about the inventor of the pet rock: He did make a million bucks, didn`t he?