Assessing Pakistani Science

Ref: #15 by masadi on February 22, 2006 6:42am PT

{The guy has no clue about the ``science`` that he so vehemently propagates.} Oh yeah! And you do?

How can a commie mullah like yourself who is blinded with anti-west hatred know what science is?

masadi, go and snort a joint. It will make you feel better.

Dr. Hoodbhoy....will you ever learn?

The article begins well enough, identifying the symptoms. And what is the good doctor`s cure?

A healthy dose of anti-religion and ideology.

Mmmkay....now, for those of us old enough to remember the Soviets, who were steeped in authoritarianism, why was it that they managed to produce good science?

Could it be...and this may be a stretch...that good science comes from institutions dedicated to doing...*gasp*...science!

Could it be that giving new graduates work in their field would possibly help keep the wheel turning?

How does Pakistan ensure quality science in it`s institutions, and develop a system of grants and incentives for attracting/keeping the best and the brightest?

Attacking Islam, or society in general? Grow up.

We`re talking about forming an elite group here...you can`t blame society on the failure of governments and educational instituions in developing these.

So no, it`s not just money and resources. It`s also MANAGEMENT.

Solution? Let the Indian universities open up shop in Pakistan...you guys clearly don`t know what the hell you`re doing or talking about.

#64

``the answer may be that the Indians work with the split brain cortex -- like their caste system -- they have coolly assigned different jobs to different lobes of the brains -- right for the superstition and fatalism -- the left for math and science.... ``

Hail to the caste system!!...Finally, someone steps forward with a legitimate justification. India! Just follow the path shown to you by the sage...

Religions cause genetic malfunctions…I was not aware of that.

Ref: #66 by vertex on February 22, 2006 2:02pm PT

{Solution? Let the Indian universities open up shop in Pakistan...you guys clearly don`t know what the hell you`re doing or talking about. }

Keep on dreaming.

re:#15 by masad
(There is no intellectual rigor, neither is there creativity unless you consider inventions seeping into the civilan field from the military as ``creative``.)
Ha, ha, ha.
Masadi dude,
Are u for real?
What are your qualifications anyway?
USA still has the most number of Nobel Laureates compared to any other nation.
Besides, in the field of medicine (about which i can speak with some authority), US scientists have pioneered over decades.
Here is the link that has the Nobel laureates in Medicine and Physics since its inception. After 1950 or so, USA`s dominance is visible.
I attended a conference some time ago in my field of expertise (Neonatal-Perinatal Medicine). Someone (an American) presented data about intrauterine cardiac surgery for correction of complex heart defects! Made me sit up and take note. The only scientific paper from Asia was from China!
Cutting edge research in molecular biology is happening in all premier research centers in US including places like NIH.
You are obviously biased. For what reason, hard for me to guess but may be u too, like many others, spent hard time in Guantanama Bay.
Sridhar

#68 also let Indian Oil or Reliance buy the Pakistan Oil and Gas Company ;-)

By the way, I find the article to be very specific and well-substantiated in its criticism, and the critical responses are vaguely articulated complaints. Oftentimes it is not even clear if the ``interactor`` has read the article. For example, one interactor has decided to blame British plunder for the current deplorable state; ignoring the fact that the article points to adecline in standards even in the last 30-40 years. Another ``jiyaala`` cuts right to the chase and lashes out at the article for it`s ``anti-religion`` bent, where the most remote reference to religion (as ``superstition``) is made in the very end. (The only valid point that interactor has made is that authoritarianism probably has no relation to scientific achievement.)

It seems that people are just annoyed that someone gave them a good doze of unvarnished truth that they don`t like. Others have a beef with this particular author for his relentless critique, which has spilled over into this discussion; and still others don`t like this ``dehriya`` but they are embarassed to say that.

Re: # 10

I am sorry for responding to # 10 if someone has already made the point. But I think it is an important point to be clarified for the benefit of others not working in science.

Making bombs and rockets is more of an engineering enterprize. What Prof Hoodbhoy is talking about research in theoretical physics and (pure) mathematics which in no way is related to either of these technologies. yes, one needs to know both physics and math to make bombs/rockets. But the physics/math thus required is standard stuff that has been discovered/developed earlier on.

MNIPhirSay,

Nonsense.

What started off as a very nice critique of all that ails Pakistan`s efforts to foster science, quickly degenerated into a misplaced social critique.

Good scientific institutions do not ``emerge`` from a society. The development of modern science itself was the venture of eccentric aristocrats.

The institutions need to be built, the talent acquired, and retained. This is a problem of management, and part of the job is to weed out those who don`t fit the bill. Fact is, 99% of the population won`t fit the bill...Hoodbhoy would have us follow some strange utopian vision where we ``transform`` society into some liberal haven on the promise we can pick and choose from the 99%. Lazy thinking.

It doesn`t work that way...

Pakistan needs to create an effective and viable space for that elite.

Dear Interactors:
The focus of the article is future of science (research and development) in Pakistan. The writer is a professor of nuclear physics at Islamabad university. He is a scientist and a professor at a renowned university of Pakistan. I believe he has a better insight of the issues he is talking about than an interactor of unspecified qualifications or a lawyer or a journalist.
I tried to check the credentials of the first 71 interactors of this article. Most of them did not reveal them; simply wrote, read “ilog” and in many cases there were no ilogs to their credit. Of 71 of them, only one is a physicist who has an M.Sc. (physics) and a Ph.D in (nuclear engineering). His post shows appreciation of the basic issue under discussion.
One of the interactors is “Indian classical musician,” another is a journalist, another has ‘travelled all over India,’ another lawyer, yet another “story teller, a salesman and a visionary,’ and finally another is ‘a straight shooting cowboy.’
The opening line of one interactor is: “Dr. Hoodbhoy…will you ever learn?” He has not described his credentials. He says, “read ilog,” and there is not a single ilog to his credit.
Come on guys, you are discussing science, not Indo-Pakistani politics (correction: you are indeed discussing Indo-Pakistani politics which is not the subject of the article), or mutah marriage.
I wonder how many of the interactors have published one original science paper in a refereed journal. How many of them have published five such papers. Unless you have published some original work in science, you’ll not be able to determine what “good” science is.
Be honest to yourselves; if you are unqualified by virtue of your education and actual experience of doing science, stop writing meaningless interacts.
Mohammad Gill

re:#34 by masadi
(More people around the world live in misery than did ever before, amidst more suprlus than existed ever before. If people were dying at the rate they are today of want and genuine deprivation when humans were hunter gatherers, the human race would have become extinct long ago. And you so called science machines are have not only bureaucratized and directed innovation towards profit maximization (as against human betterment), they have ensured that profits from them get circulated among a narrow group. With dim wits like you working for them, we can be sure that something is lacking in the ``vetting`` process.)
This is what i call as ``intellectual masturbation``.
Much of pioneering work in fight against diseases has come from the West. Alexander Fleming, the British scientist discovered Penicillin in and around 1930s. Twenty years later, Selman Waksman discovered Streptomycin giving hope to millions of people in the third world to fight against that scourge of mankind at the time, Tuberculosis.
Now-a-days, antitibiotic discoveries are patented by big companies doing cutting-edge research. I was visiting the Exhibit stalls during a break when i was attending AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) annual conference in San Francisco when i was surprised to find an exhibit with the name Ranbaxy. I know Ranbaxy to be an Indian Pharmaceutical company. What was surprising was it was spreading its wing to foreign shores. The exhibit was manned by an American who proudly told me that Ranbaxy was doing some innovative research. When i researched on Ranbaxy, i found that it was gearing up to fight the patent clause. Per the WTO agreement, Patent laws will have to be strictly adhered to. Those who can`t innovate will lose out. Until this dawned on Ranbaxy, it was happy to do a little remodelling of the old product and called it by a different name and sold it cheaply, earning huge profits. Now, it has to be innovative to survive.
The other big life saving invention in Medicine has been the vaccines. Most of these have come from the West. Oral Polio Vaccine was invented by Jonas Salk, an American. This alone has saved millions in India and other third world countries. Recently, i was happy to read that India may finally be on its way to eradicating Polio.
Of course, masadi won`t understand all this. He will keep ranting his anti-west bias.
He does not have to bother anyway. It is all already spelled out in that Bedouin Handbook of Daily Living (more popularly called Qoran).
Sridhar

re: zeena`s post
(Scientific evidence suggests that what we call objectivity is just a generally accepted form of subjectivity.)
Hurray!
One learns somthing new everytime one visits chowk.
In the murky world of Paki science, objective can be subjective and vice versa when it suits the person.
Sridhar

Hoodbhai

Well done dear Hoodbhai. But why to talk of science in a country where obscurantism reigns so much that the Prime Minister of the country makes a show on the media of making rain by a ritual. Science, in religious parlence, means opening the secrets of God. But how can you do this when you can`t know even what AQK had been doing with his `science` to play havouc with the meagre financial resources of this poor country. So relax dear Hoodbhai. Leave this `kafirana` business of science to `kafirs`. We have our `Ulema` to look after us with the sword of BL.

re: from the pages of the book ``Islam and Science`` by Pervez Hoodhbhoy

(``About 700 years ago, Islamic civilization almost completely lost the will and ability to do science. Since that time, apart from attempts during the Ottoman period and in Mohammed Ali`s Egypt, there have been no significant efforts at recovery. Many Muslims acknoledge, and express profound regret at, this fact. Indeed, this is the major preoccupation of the modernist faction in Islam. But most traditionalists feel no regret -- in fact, many welcome this loss because, in their view, keeping] a distance from science helps preserve Islam from corrupting, secular influences.``

``Scientific development and ideology are indivisibly linked. Hence the fundamental question: is the Islamic faith in harmonious complementarity with the science of the natural world or is there, an irreconciliable conflict between the metaphysical system based on faith and demands of reason and empirical enquiry?``

Page 4:

``At the heart of the dispute is the fundamental issue: science is a secular pursuit, and it is impossible to for it to be otherwise. The secular character of science does not mean that it necessararily repudiates the existence of Divine. But it does mean that the validation of scientific truths does not rely on any form of spiritual authority; observation, experimentation, and logic are the sole arbiters which decide what is true or false. Scientists are free to be as religious as they please, but science recognizes no laws outside its own.``

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``The elites which rule Muslim countries today have shown little ability - or even desire - to address the myriad problems and challenges of a modern world. Of these, the development of science and rational culture are perhaps the most important.``

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Chapter 4/Page 28:

``Often, diabolical theories of international conspiracy, with varying degrees of credibilityj, are invoked as explanation fro Muslim Scientific backwardness. But these are not very fulfilling. Indeed, the damage to the collective self-esteem cannot be undone by such means, and thoghtful Muslims must seek sounder reasons.``

``In seeking an explanation for scientific underdevelopment, one must recognize at the outset that the environment for science in Islamic country is replete with paradoxes.``

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Chapter 4/Page 29:

``Muslim modernists and pragmatists have persistently sought to amalgamate the new with the old. But their attitude towards science is oftentimes a schizophrenic one, particularly in those Muslims countries where orthodoxy wields state power.``

``This point is exemplified by the views expressed by the Saudi delegates to a high level conference held in Kuwait in 1983. The ostensible aim of the conference, attended by rectors from 17 Arab universities, was to identify and remove bottlenecks in the development of science and techonolgy in the Arab world. But a simple topic dominated the proceedings: is science Islamic? The Saudis held that pure science tends to produce `Mu`tazilite tendencies` potentially subversive of belief. Science is profane because it is secular; as such in their opinion - it goes agains Islamic beliefs. Hence, recommended the Saudis, although techonology should be promoted for its obvious benefits, pure science ought to be softpedalled.``

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Chapter 4/Page 35:

``There are, on paper, 133 science and technology institutions in Pakistan. In size they range from large research and development organizations such as the PAEC (atomic energy), PCSIR (industrial research) and SUPARCO (space research) to small units occupying only a few rooms of office space. Equipment is generally plentiful, salaries are 30-50 percent higher than in the neighbouring India, and perks such as foreign travel are common. The organizations maintain public relations offices, have good access to the state media, send employees for overseas training, and organize conferences all year around. On the face it there are signs of busy, productive, and effective activity. But, with some exceptions, theiry scientific research output is miniscule by any reasonable standard, and the impact on the technology that exists or the national economy is imperciptible. Pakistan`s nuclear program, which is by far the most advanced in the Muslime countries, if often held up as a symbol of the nation`s technial prowess. But the only declared achievement of signficance is the reasonably successful operation of, and fuel fabrication for, the single Canadian supplied reactor located in Karachi, KANUPP. Unlike India, Pakistan cannot hope to design and construct its own reactors in the foreseeable future, which is why it entered into a deal in 1990 for purchasing a turn-key French supplied reactor.``

****
``Given that per capita income in Pakistan ($350) and India ($300) are not much different, the huge discrepancy in levels of scientific achievement must be sought elsewhere. This explanation lies in education.``

Chapter 4/Page 37:
``..., but the objectives of education were tacitly taken to be essentially universal. modernistic ones. However, following the coup of 1977 which brought General Zia-ul-Haq to power, the military government, in alliance with political parties of fundamentalist orientation, declared its intention of creating an Islamized society and a new national identity based exclusively on religion. Education immediately became a key instrument to be used towards this end. Consequently, a number of important changes were officially decreed. These include the following:

* Imposition of the chadar for female students in educational institutions;
* Organization of zuhr (afternoon) prayers during school hours;
* Compulsory teaching of Arabic as a second language from the 6 the class onwards;
* Introduction of nazra Qur`an (reading of Qur`an) as a matriculation requirement;
* An alteration of the definition of literacy to mean religious knowledge;
* Elevation of maktab schools to the status of regular schools;
* The recognition of madrasah certificates as equivalent to master`s degrees;
* The grant of 20 extra marks for those applicants to engineering universities who have memorized Qur`an;
* Creation of International Islamic University in Islamabad;
* Organization of numerous national and international conference on various aspects of Islamization;
* Introduction of religious knowledge as a criterion for selecting teachers of science and non
* science subjects;
* Revision of conventional subjects to emphasize Islamic values.

General Zia and his followers pursued their concept of Islamized education with great seriousness, and most of the above decrees were implemented at least to some degree. But zealotry was tempered with pragmatism when powerful interests were at stake. For example, the government left almost untouched the exclusive set of expensive, private, English medium schools to which military officers, bureaucrats, and wealthy citizens send their children. Elite institutions such as the Karachi Grammar School, Aitchison College, Burn Hall, and many others, boast of a content and quality of education which is comparable to the better ranking schools in the West. In contrast to Urdu medium schools - which are intended for the masses - these provide instruction of a modern and basically secular character to roughly one percent of the the population. Apart from relatively minor changes, they continued to function during the Zia era as in the years before.``

****

``The successor civilian government of Benazir Bhutto, which was not known for seeking bold initiatives, did not dare make any meaningful changes during its tenure in office. With the demise of her government and the accession to power of the Islamic Democratic Alliance, it is almost certain that the Islamization of education will be accelerated.``

****

``From colonial time onwards, the assumption had been that modern education was necessary for social progress - and that social progress was desirable. This was explicitly renounced in 1977. Instead, the restoration of past Islamic glories was declared as the goal.``

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Chapter 4/Page 39-40:

Lost and buried in the dusty archives of Harvard`s Widener Library is Ph.D. dissertation, submitted in 1964 to that university by a Pakistani student, Wali Muhammed Zaki, entitled ``The Attitude of Pakistani Science Teachers Towards Religion and Science``.

****

The results of Zaki`s research are as follows:

1. High school students in the US understood the nature of the scietific enterprise, and the methods and aims of science, significantly better than did the high school teachers of West Pakistan.
2. The understanding of science, as well as attitudes towards science, were found to have significant negative correlation with attitudes towards religion.
3. ...Ahmadis and Protestants indicated a significantly more favourable attitude towards science relative to sunnis.
4. ...teachers belonging to Sind indicated a significantly more favourable attitude....
5. Science teachers with bachgrounds in the biological sciences understood the nature of scientific enterprise better than those in the physical science.

There are several counts on which one can fault the above study. ...... But is this the reason why Zaki`s dissertation met the fate of obscurity and oblivion?

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Chapter 4/Page 40-41:

Since 1985, Pakistan`s ministry of Science and Technology has been sending several hundred students every year to the US an the Britain for Ph.D. work in scientific and technical fields.

****

For example, in 1985-86, 187 students were sent to the US for the Ph.D. work. As of 1991, only 9 had received Ph.Ds. abd 39 have been given M.Scs. In the same year, 191 students were sent to the UK. Of these, 65 received Ph.Ds. This relatively larger number indicates the less rigorous nature of the British system.

On 29 January 1986, the Centre of Basic Sciences in Islamabad administered a test designed by the Nobel prize winning physicist, Samuel Ting. About 130 students from all over Pakistan, and with qualifications ranging from M.Sc. to M.Phil. to Ph.D. took the test. Students are allowed to bring any notes and books they wanted. This 5-hour long test consisted of 200 multiple choice questions on various aspects of physics. Since each quesion had three alternative answers, random guessing would give an average score of 67 marks. Students who scored more than 160 would be granted admission to MIT.

Not a single student passed. Not one came anywhere close to the pass mark. The highest recorded score was 113, and the average score was 70 - a scant 3 points above that which a group of illiterated would have attained, had they been allowed to randomly tick off the answers.

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Chapter 4/Page 43-45:

``The de-emphasis of secular subjects, and reduced levels of performance in these, is in considerable measure a result of fundamental changes in educational priorities. The emphasis on religious and nationalistic indoctrination has caused most literary works to be replaced by moralizing essays, classical poetry by religious poetry, and the teaching of history and geography to be confined to that of Muslim periods and areas. The vision of of a universalistic world civilization remains hidden from the pupil`s view. Most importantly, the role of reason and creativity in the learning process has been denigrated.``

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The years of General Zia`s rule also saw the virtual extinction of intellectual activity in Pakistani universities. Public lectures, debates, drama, musical events and even mushairas (poetry recitals) were virtually banished from the campuses. In part this was due to the efforts of university authorities obsessed with the desire to maintain law and order, and in part to active threats by religious student groups who consider drama and music as un-Islamic. The latter force has not disappeard with Zia`s death.

****

With the intention of preserving the universities from the unwanted change, there has evolved an elaborate system whereby the university faculty is selected so that contamination by the germs of intellectual and professional competence is avoided as much as possible. This task of sanitization is one which the university selection boards are entrusted with. The means by which this task is accomplished includes, among others, forcing candidates to answer questions wholly unrelated to their subject of specialization, and which bear no relevance to any possible professional activity of the candidate.

This point is well illustrated by successive meetings in 1987 and 1988 of the selection board of Quaid-e-Azam University, which is considered to be Pakistan`s premier university. The candidates... ...were confronted with questions like this:

* What are the names of the Holy Prophet`s wives?
* Recite the prayer Dua-e-Qunoot.
* When was the Pakistan Resolution adopted?
* What is the difference between different azan`s?
* What does your [the candidate`s] name mean?
* Give the various names of God.

****

Candidates who refused to submit themselves to such questioning wer generally turned away. The government of Benazir Bhutto did not repudiate the policy, and the successor IJI government has reaffirmed it.

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``Certain exegetes of the Holy Qur`an have also attempted to derive scientific facts from the Holy Book in a manner much like that described above. Among these Maurice Bucaille is by far the most prominent and widely read.``

[1] Nem Kumar Jain, Science and Scientists in India, (Delhi, Indian Book Gallery, 1985). p.1

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Chapter 6/Page 67-68:

Maurice Bucaille:

``A French surgeon who turned spiritualist, Monsieur Bucaille shot into prominence thorughout the Islamic world with the publication of his exegesis, The Bible, The Qur`an and Science.``

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``Bucaille`s method is simple. He asks his readers to ponder on some Qur`anic verse and then, from a variety of meanings that could be assigned to the verse, he pulls out one which is consistent with some scientific fact. He thereupon concludes that, whereas the Bible is often wrong in the description of natural pheonomena, the Qur`an is ivariably correct and that it correctly anticipated all major discoveries of modern science.``

****

``He ends the discussion of each topic with the ritual conclusion that the marvelous agreement of Qur`anic revelations with the scientific fact is proof of its miraculous nature.``

``Whereas Monsieur Bucaille appears eminently satisfied with his methodology, Muslims who wish to combine reason with faith will readily detect at least two fundamental flaws in it even though` they accept the divine nature of Qura`n.``

``First it will be recognized that the proof of a proposition is meaningful only if the possibility of disproof is also to be entertained. .... Since believers know that it is impossible for the Qur`an to be wrong in any manner, all attempts at `proving` its divine nature are entirely specious from the start.``

``Second, hanging an eternal truth on to the changeable thories of science is a dangerous business.``

****

``Observe that in Bucaille`s book there is not a single prediction of any physical fact which is unknown up to now, but which could be tested against observation and experimentation in the future.``

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Appendix: They Call it Islamic Science

[This is an extended version of the author`s article published in Jan 1988 issue of the Karachi monthly Herald]

There has emerged, in recent years, a remarkable manifestation of orthodox religiousity which is, in essence. an attempt to extend the scope of Islamization in Pakistan beyond the sphere of social concerns and into the domain of natural phenomena. They call it Islamic Science.

Rising like a phoenix from the ashes of a long gone medieval age, this new science seeks to establish that every scientific fact and phenomenon know today was anticipated 1400 years ago and that all scientific predictions may, in fact, be based on the study of the Holy Book. Once again, as in medieval times, theology is being crowned as the Queen of Sciences.

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Ordinary secular science, according to the proponents of the new Islamic science, has no business being here in the Land of the Pure. Together with various other foul products of godless secular civilizations - such as capitalism or socialism or democracy - modern science also needs to be unceremoniously shipped back to the West, where it supposedly belongs.
The Scientific Miracles Conference

I had the privilege of recently observing at close range the new Islamic Science. The occasion was provided by the international conference on Scietific Miracles of Qur`an and Sunnah, inaugurated by President General Mohammed Zia-ul-Haq in Islamabad on October 18, 1987. ...... About half the total conference expenses around 66 lakh rupees ($400,000) - were borne by the brotherly government of Saudi Arabia which often subsidizes such excellent causes. ..... it had been preceeded by two others of a similar nature some months ago in Karachi, as well as many earlier ones. New ones are doubtlessly being planned......

...the following shortlist of rather suggestively titled papers presented at the Scientific Miracles Conference by itself speaks volumes:

1. Chemical Composition of Milk in relation to Verse 66 of Surat An-Nahl of the Holy Qur`an.
2. Description of Man at High Altitudes in Qur`an.
3. Cumulonimbus Clouds Description in Qur`an.
4. Have You Observed the Fire?
5. Revelation of Some Modern Oceanographic Phenomena in Holy Qur`an.

Sixty-five other papers of similar nature were also presented by the pious, bearded participants. ......I felt out of my depth, finding even the titles of some sessions to be incomprehensible. For example, one of these was advertised as a Panel Discussion on Things Known Only To Allah.... I was unable to attend, but subsequently have often wondered what secrets the panelists were privy to.
The Amazing Conclusions of Islamic Science

....A selection follows:

* Dr Mohammed Muttalib, who teaches earth sciences at the famous Al Azhar University of Egypt, presented ... paper on the relation of geological facts and phenomena to Qur`anic verses. ....... Mountains have roots in the earth, said the good doctor, and the Allah made them act like pegs which tether a tent to the ground and kept it from blowing away. Without mountains, he emphasized, the earth`s rotation would cause everything to fly apart. It would be totally catastrophic -- no mountains, no earth.
* Engineer Abdal Fequi of Egypt, drawing on his experience with armour piercing anti-tank ammunition gained during service in the Egyptian army in 1976, gave very impressive evidence that Allah intends us to use empty copper shells in order to destroy such men and jinns as may dare to venture in spaceships into forbidden regions of heavens.
* Munafiqat (hypocrisy) is certainly an endemic problem in our society. .... at the International Seminar on Qur`an and Science, organized in June 1986 by the Pakistan Association of Scientists and Scientific Professions, one intrepid scientist presented a bold new scientific theory of munafiqat.

Dr Arshad Ali Beg, a senior scientist at the PCSIR has a mathematical formula by which, he says, the degree of munafiqat in a society can be calculated. ..... So everything happens through chemical reactions such as:

Infidels + Teaching of the Prophet

---

> Religious Society
* ...Western society is calculated to have a munafiqat value of 22, while Spain and Portugal have a value of only fourteen. It is a bit of a mystery that munafiqat values are given for Pakistan society......
* In a paper read at the Karachi Qur`an and Science Conference, Mr Salim Mehmud [Chairman of SUPARCO] proposed that an explanation for the Holy Prophet`s Mairaj (ascension to heaven) be sought in Einstein`s theory of relativity.

*****

... Science and Technology in the Islamic World, this journal is an important advocate and means of propagation of the new Islamic science. ..... Here is a small sample of articles .... which have actually appeared in this journal in recent issues.

1. Some Qur`anic Ayaat Containing References to Science and Technology;
2. Symmetry of Universe and the Qur`anic Principle of Creation in Pairs;
3. Some Ahadith Containing References to Jihad;
4. The Monograms of Two Popular Pakistani Banks and Their Probable Significance.
5. Dichotomy of Insan (Man) and Jinn & their Destiny

.... the last mentioned paper above, authored by Dr Safdar Jung Rajput, a senior scientist with DESTO (the Defence Science & Technolgy Organization). ...... A summary of his principal results in jinnology, published in the above quoted article, is as follows:

1. It is highly probable that the origin of jinns is methane gas, together with other saturated hydro-carbons, because these yield a smokeless flame upon burning. This conclusion is predicated on the know fact that God made jinns out of fire, together with the known fact that no jinn emitting smoke has even been seen.
2. .... it follows that both men and jinns are similar and isogenotypes. QED.
3. .... the final conclusion .... is ... `I cannot help but say that the jinss are white races.`

*****

A senior director of Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, Mr Bashiruddin Mahmood, in 1980 has recommended that jinns, being fiery creatures, ought to be trapped as a free source of energy.)
Sridhar

#64 by nasah
It is much more than that. Read my post on what Prof Hoodhbhoy wrote in ``Islam and Science``.
If a scientist in Pak seriously believes that Jinn can be used to extract energy, i do not know what to say.
Sridhar

Just read the article, but find it basically incoherent and pointless. Not the kind of stuff one would expect from Hoodbhoy. Maybe he wrote it specially for chowk - knowing that this kind of incoherent mumbo-jumbo would fit right in.

One thing I can agree with - e.g. his pointing to Musharaff`s picture on their websites: this is idolatry pure and simple. This posting of huge pictures of the president du jour is a symbol of paganism you will find across the ``muslim`` world (including the ``Islamic state`` of iran where the ``muslim`` mullahs have their ugly faces on posters, duly idolized by their ``muslim`` followers), and in third rate countries (like north korea) across the world.