A Stretch of Analogy: National Deterrence to Individual Deterrence

``Is the common citizen not facing a jungle law? If this is the case, then why he is not allowed to have deterrence? It may seem to be an uncivilized suggestion but don’t we know that everyone is allowed to keep personal arms in America, avowedly the most civilized nation on this earth?``

``If guns are outlawed, then only the outlaws will have guns.``

``it’s a safe bet that India would never have dared to intervene in East Pakistan had Pakistan been nuclear at that time.``

look smarty - it was bhutto who gave an open opportunity to India to get bangladesh.

India has been altogether vicious in its aims and plans against Pakistan but couldn`t dare to step ahead lest its most-loved dharti doesn`t again slip into the hands of jawaans from the west.

And now her respected daughter who flaunts to have 2 husbands; Zardari and Nawaz Sharif..plans to break the ice by performing the same balancing acts her father did.
Her father even stooped to ink the deal to freeze the existence of Pakistan (Allah Forbid) and act like Yasser Arafat.

In the latter case..Soha Arafat too would have had 2 husbands.

Re: # 28 #28 by masadi on June 3, 2006 9:08pm PT

Dear masadi:

On the contrary, actually you have behaved like a stupid fool and a buffoon. You purposely stray almost all discussions away to the wah-wah land of your intrinsic hatred and bigotry of the west.

You have not addressed any point, because none was raised for your unintelligent mind. Your brains are just stuck in some commie`s @ss, and you know it.

Now, if you think that the Arabs are not stealing Pakistan`s assets at dirt cheap prices, that is all you have to post. Nothing more than that.

Is that clearly understood?

Respectfully submitted,

Asad Shah - I for one totally agree with every SINGLE word you have written here. This world and our society in particular is indeed a replica of Jungle and consequently, the laws applicable for survival are no different.

In #25 , <<< whose price is manipulated by the developing countries for exports, will put them in the marketplace with begging bowls >>>

Should read , <<< manipulated by the developed countries >>>>

Behram, you behave like an idiot. So far you haven`t addressed even one point I raised, you keep repeating your rants about Arabs, which are meaninglessly distractive and ignorantly simplistic. I have been quite generous in entertaining your queries thus far but your purpose is not to find the truth but to nourish your bigotry. I am not interested in that exercise. Not a single point in any of my posts have you even tried to address, not a single one.

Re: # 25 by masadi on June 3, 2006 6:45am PT

Dear masadi:

Most of your post was gibberish at best and does not address the issue at hand, and that is primarily that Pakistan is being sold to the lowest Arab bidder. Maybe you are academically stuck in your tracks, and have no concept of what all these interacts mean. You conveniently side step the main issue of culpability by referring all your Muslim brother`s shenanigans to the big Anglo brother which you call them capitalist elite. This what a bigot does. Your lack of knowledge is just amazing.

As usual, you will not identify who the real thieves are. I will not grant you the luxury of deflecting this subject to the global enterprise of crooks and enterprising thieves. Pakistan leaders always had a basket of thieves, ever since 1958.

All these years Pakistan has been borrowing and borrowing and has not made any effort to repay its loans. Nowadays due to the struggle against world peace, it appears Pakistan has devised a new scheme of selling its assets to bring money to the opponents of the enlightened world. By funnelling money to our enemies is not what the enlightened world needs.

And this is the main crux of your analysis that you are missing.

{ Unlike you I am not bigoted, I don`t condemn a particular ethnicity, }

Yes, you are bigoted. When you deflect issues to irrelevancy then you become a bigoted person. You are dishonest to your own self-proclaimed morals. When you remain silent on any injustices that happens, you are bigoted. When Arabs are screwing the world, it is alright by you. Why?

Why do create new vocabulary to hide your hatred against the west? You have continuously spread your hate on this chowkI am waiting for any simple comment that would indicate that you are an authentic person.

{Why the Arabs are buying assets of Pakistan is because no one else wants them, }

This shows how your convoluted mind works. The issue is not what the Arabs are doing. The issue is what the Pakistanis are doing. Why are the Pakistanis not allowing other than Arabs to bid on Pakistani assets?

{how much profits from those costly ventures have they thus far repatriated to the Arab lands and then to the US as they normally do? You have no clue as usual. }

Neither do you? or do you? Sitting is the west and pontificating comes natural to you, doesn`t it. Why are you tying all your thoughts to the US? You must develop the skill of concentrating on the thief, who are presently Arab Muslims. And please stay away from this constant notion that my views are biased because I am an Iranian Zoroastrian.

At least that is what most of your interacts seem to suggest.

Respectfully submitted,

#19, don`t confuse me with the author of this article, I disagree with his conclusions, see interact #3

As usual you are looking at the petty criminals and ignorning the structure, and institutions that produce conditions in which such crime is possible. Unlike you I am not bigoted, I don`t condemn a particular ethnicity, I point to a tiny elite that has taken control of the power state and harms not only the world but its own people as well. They do not recognize national sovereignity or nation states, the whole world is their killing field. Why the Arabs are buying assets of Pakistan is because no one else wants them, that is not the cause of Pakistan`s looting, how much profits from those costly ventures have they thus far repatriated to the Arab lands and then to the US as they normally do? You have no clue as usual.

The external debt of Pakistan is held in the very large part, by Non-Arab institutions. Further south-south FDI is around a third of, i.e. much less than north-south FDI. It is not very hard to look at this data, the World Bank`s world development report 2006 is available online. Further the $30billion figure you are touting is not going to flow in, in one year, it will probably be over several years. The FDI figures for Pakistan at around $3bn a year was a new record this year, it was $2.2bn last year and the years before 2004, less than $1bn. It wont jump to $30 billion in one year just because some Arabs say they will invest that much in Pakistan. The condition that developing countries find themselves in is not because of what countries in the south do. It is because of the rich industrialized countries, their domination of trade and their barbaric lending practices that result in a net outflow of capital from developing countries. You don`t seem to accept the fact that elites in the South are totally subordinate to Northern elites, and play by thier rules in the global economy. I am against all neo-liberalization, and for maximum protection for developing countries so that they develop an industrial base, demilitarization, and maximum social services for public development. Together they can do it, divided up and selling their assets to pay their bills because they spend too much on imports and have primary products, whose price is manipulated by the developing countries for exports, will put them in the marketplace with begging bowls that further entrap them, as beggars will never be choosers. You want to look at a small aspect of a small part of that global setup and link it with the ethnicity you hate. That is nonsense as methodology and devoid of facts, you don`t know where to place the blame, the petty theives or the ones that have setup a network for these theives to operate in.

Dear masadi:

You ask {So what`s your point? Nothing as usual, only BS.}

I only wanted you to acknowledge that in modern times, it is the Arabs who are buying Pakistani assets at dirt cheap prices. My point is that when the Arabs effectively become Pakistan`s owners then Pakistanis are effectively serving their new masters, i.e. the Arabs. As usual, using your bigoted anti-west mindset, you are trying to deflect the issue to the global owner`s of capitalism. The soldier in an army is effected under the direct command of his sargent. This sargent can make this soldier`s life miserable. In Pakistan`s case, they are relegating their duty to the Arabs.

I am quite astonished that you are unable to place the fault where the fault is. In an enlightened world, the thief who commits the crime is held accountable, and not some tribe that he belongs to. In the present discussion Arabs are the buyers of Pakistani assets, and then it becomes your moral duty to accept this with honesty and dignity. Unfortunately, you are unabble to have a clear vision.

If for some strange reason, investors from Namibia show up and bought Pakistani assets, then one would assert that Namibian`s are buying Pakistani assets. It is that clear and that simple. And if lots of Namibians are buying lots of Pakistani assets on dirt cheap prices, then clear minded individuals like myself would assert that Namibians are robbing Pakistan. Then, Pakistanis would have lots of street demonstration against Namibians.

Now that these investors are Arabs, why are Pakistanis not feeling robbed? Are they feeling some sense of a relief, that at least these robbers are their muslim brother?

Respectfully submitted,

behram writes <<< Why are you so blind when an arab screws your nation >>>

I am not blind, you haven`t dealt with one point that I have posted so far. I am not concerned with the ethnicity of the person doing the screwing, the causes of this system of screwing that is in place is not arab in origin neither is it controlled by the Arabs, nor do they ensure that Pakistan`s exports remains tied to primary products, and its assets sold due to privatization to those that are close to a corrupt government totally subordinate to the Americans. The institutions that ensure this, not only for Pakistan but for the developing countries as a whole are not Arab institutions. The Arab elite are totally subordinate to the American elite, their own countries are being plundered. All you want to do based on half baked, misunderstood and confused arguments is distraction and satisfaction of your bigotry against the Arabs. The Arab elite do not share in the social profile of the Arab masses, they are closer in this profile, regardless of ethnicity, to the US elite, whose small time clients they are. So what`s your point? Nothing as usual, only BS.

behram writes <<< So 4% of Pakistan`s GDP of $120B economy is approximately equal to $4.8B, which amounts to 22% of Pakistan`s exports of approximately $21.8B. With Arabs investing $30B in the remaining Pakistan`s economy, would you consider Pakistan owning only 70% of its economy? Pakistan`s foreign debt is 43% of its economy or approximately $50B. Heck, with only $20B money left for 160 million people, how can Pakistan expect to remain a sovereign nation? >>>>

I would like to know which darul uloom you went to to learn your economic analysis. You are thoroughly confused between inflows and outflows, debt and foreign investment. Pakistan is not a sovereign nation, if it were than fighting the war on terror wouldnt be its priority. None of the developing nations are sovereign nations The looting is done by the WTO, the WB and the IMF when they set terms of trade, structural adjustment, cutting social servies, making the plunder easier for global capital in which the Arab elite are not the major players, neither do they hold most of this debt nor do they set terms of trade for pakistan or how it is to operate, your western friends do that, the Arab elite serve as their clients.

Ok masadi: This is what our favorite paper says

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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 06 03 story_3-6-2006_pg5_1
Remittances contribute 4% to Pakistan GDP

ISLAMABAD: An IMF research paper has revealed that workers’ remittances contribute 4% to the GDP of Pakistan and are equivalent to about 22 percent of annual exports of goods and services.
.......
........During the period 2000-04, workers’ remittances amounted to about 3.5 percent of GDP in Egypt, 20 percent in Jordan, eight percent in Morocco, four percent in Pakistan, and five percent in Tunisia. These inflows compare to a trade deficit of about 7.5 percent of GDP in Egypt, 24 percent in Jordan, 10 percent in Morocco, 1.5 percent in Pakistan, and 10 percent in Tunisia. Moreover, remittance flows to these countries have been larger than foreign direct investment flows.

The paper suggests that a sudden drop or reversal of remittance flows to the countries we consider is unlikely in a foreseeable future, as many of those who are receiving this assistance are likely to continue to depend on it in the coming years. Therefore, remittances are likely to continue to be an important element mitigating the external vulnerabilities of the countries considered.

---

So 4% of Pakistan`s GDP of $120B economy is approximately equal to $4.8B, which amounts to 22% of Pakistan`s exports of approximately $21.8B. With Arabs investing $30B in the remaining Pakistan`s economy, would you consider Pakistan owning only 70% of its economy? Pakistan`s foreign debt is 43% of its economy or approximately $50B. Heck, with only $20B money left for 160 million people, how can Pakistan expect to remain a sovereign nation?

And you would still gripe that westerner`s are robbing Pakistan.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: #17 by masadi on June 2, 2006 6:31am PT

Dear masadi:

{I don`t see the point.} I understand your dilema. Like some in Pakistan, it would really take an effort on your part to learn what is actually happening in Pakistan.

If Arabs are buying all the assets in Pakistan, and future Punjabi slaves are sent to the middle east, then peopl like you will not scream foul, because their is a bigger ``cat`` in the jungle. Right? That has always been your theory, has it not?

And then as usual nonsense, use the wepons of mass deflection and have anti-west rhetoric slogans amongst Pakistanis.

{Do your research,} No sir, it is you who has to be enlightened. Day in and day out, your anti-west rhetoric is just neuseating. Why are you so blind when an arab screws your nation.

O! but you are a non-believer in nation states. Isn`t that correct?

{ and if you come up with something that supports your hypothesis that the Arabs are looting Pakistan and not the institutions like the IMF/WB who hold the vast majority of Pakistan`s debt, let us in on the info.}

Arabs are going to invest $30B in Pakistan. What are they buying? Assets and rights to future slaves? And you keep quite. How sad?

{Until then, all your rants are mere distraction from real issues} What real issues? You have no idea what real issues are. You are a master of deflection. I have just caught you on your shenanigans. Pakistan is being looted by none other than the Arabs, but you are blind to it.

Talk about some huge money laudering scheme that is going on between Pakistani government and Arabs. No wonder we have to continue this fight with the darker forces of humanity and get rid of slavery in Pakistan.

{ and I do not want to argue meaninglessly on anything. } O! yeah.

Masadi, I just want you to be morally strong and be honest to yourself.

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Re:#18 by pakfin on June 2, 2006 9:51am PT

Dear Pakfin:

Yes that is correct, when you suggest

{There is a big difference between ``buying`` and ``stealing``. If a product is up for sale and gets a willing buyer then it is not robbery, no matter who te buyer is. }

{As far as ``sweet`` deals are concerned, in most cases there is a local partner involved in the deal with the foreign company.}

With transperency, we would not have this discussion. Was Iran invited in any of these asset bidding?

Or was any other non-arab bidders invited? If not, then why not?

Just think about how modern day robber-barrons are gathered.

Respectfully submitted,

By the way are you my old friend Asad from Adamjee Science College?

There is a big difference between ``buying`` and ``stealing``. If a product is up for sale and gets a willing buyer then it is not robbery, no matter who te buyer is.

As far as ``sweet`` deals are concerned, in most cases there is a local partner involved in the deal with the foreign company.