The Pakistani American Hunt

Uhmm,
Sameenasha must be a product of low-income family, that is why she married Uncle MCDonald.

America is a junk country... The people, the culture, the morals, stinks

Naseem:

Thank you for acknowledging:

[This article was written for people who physically live in America but keep the Pakistani attitude.]

See, when you write an article, you should expect readers either to agree or disagree with you and provide counter scenarios. So, in a way, you as a writer deserve credit for provoking your readership to put forth examples, experiences and scenarios that they have encountered. I am sure you feel for your community and that`s why you were motivated enough to address the issues related to the ``hunting`` process. I guess I am simply not motivated enough to write about this topic. It does not do any thing for me. This is not a complex differential equation that you need to write a thesis on. This is an important but very simple matter of life. You just need to have an approach to address it. That approach can vary from person to person depending on their view of life and their personal preferences. You cannot and should not have a clannish approach here. I find it weird that educated and sane people will focus so much of their life on maintaining the cultural identity and nurturing a mindset of a villager while living in the West. It`s like taking one step ahead, but moving ten steps back. You observations addressed both valid and controversial points that I wanted to comment on and that`s it. In my view, good discussions arise from opposite povs. If everyone agreed with your way of thinking, then there was no need for anyone to respond or even comment. We could have eliminated the Interact Section. I am sure those who completely agree with your analysis, observations and recommendations must have taken a print-out of this write-up and posted it on their fridge for daily guidance :) Take Care.

Zahraj:

Your comments are becoming more enjoyable indeed when you say,

``I understand that you want to be accepted in your local Islamic Center :) So let me add a few more pointers that should have been there``

Islamic centers do not accept me and I get similar comments from other people who have never even seen the Islamic centers.


I accept this without any prejudice. This article was written for people who physically live in America but keep the Pakistani attitude. Now let me give some statistics.

Pakistani Americans in the USA according to last census are about 250000. I will add another 150000 undocumented to make it 400,000. Out of these only 10% are like people you have referred to in your email. I intereact with them without any problems. I meet them in mixed gathering where Indians, Pakistanis and local Americans meet without any inhibitions. I have many friends who have married white, brown, Latino Americans and live good lives.

However these people are not my audience. These people are highly educated professionals. They are successful in life. They have their own probelms that I would not like go into details.

After the the above 10%, comes a solid middle class that in my persoanl opinion is about 45%. These people are also successful but they have kept their links with Pakistan. These people are the pioneers who have not only built these Islamic centers but also social cultural associations. I know many of them all across America. These people try very hard to retain a link with their religious and cultural traditions. These people are tolerant and do not jump into any religious fanaticism. They want their next generation to have better lives.

Below the middle class I observe a lower middle class. This is about 35% of the total population in the USA. These people are very religious. They the one who have displaced the first generation of professional people in the Islamic centers. They go to a great length in teaching religion to their kids. They work hard and aspire to become rich and successful. These people are having tough time in the USA. You will find these people in every major Pakistani or religious functions. They even invite the Pirs, Ayatullahs and Sajjada Nashins from Pakistan and hold functions where you will feel as if you are in Pakistan.

The last 10% of the population is poor indeed. They go through the grind like every poor person in the USA. I have seen mixing of these people with Americans of all races. It is not their desire to do so. These people do not have good education or good jobs.

I have tried to communicate to the middle and lower middle class of Pakistani Americans. The 10% Pakistanis who are cosmopolitan in outlook have absoultely no problem at all. Their sons or daughters marry anyone they like and these people do not have any mental anguish. They gladly bless such unions. They may not even read any Pakistani newspapers like Chowk or Dawn. The bottom 10% may not be able to read english. So my article can not address them.

Regarding myself, I can assure you that I did not make up observations while sitting in a cozy drawing room. I have seen major American cities and observed a wide cross section of Pakistani Americans from top to bottom. I have deep empathy for Pakistanis as I still have a large number of friends and relatives back home.

So again I suggest that you write about your observations for the benefit of all of us.

Naseem:

I wanted to address a few more aspects of your article. Please do not misread me, you have brought up some good points. My concern is that you are still not acknowledging that Pakistani Americans are living in America and not in Pakistan. They will run into well educated, well-established, respectable, humorous, chivalrous, polite, decent, lovable, cute and nice Irish, Italian, Polish, Latino (from different geographic areas) and several others from all parts of the world. Often times, when you spend 10-12 hours at work and then socialize with your colleagues then obviously you develop a better rapport and understanding with them. Why should anyone(who is real serious) disregard the *beautiful* and *handsome* creation of God and run to the local Islamic Center to find a spouse(who you may not be able to associate with and vice versa). This is absurd.

[People continue their search for a perfect match till they cross over to an age where life as a single person seems more convenient.]

That`s very true. It is all about making choices in life.

[Looking deeper into this malaise, I find this problem can be easily resolved if our community changes its outlook by adapting to local conditions.]

You circle of ``local conditions`` needs to expand. I gave a few examples of the South Asian women who married outside of their culture and religion. In case of the Muslim women, I mentioned that the men converted. I wanted to elaborate that a little bit. This conversion business is very strange. The most amusing aspect is that the women in the picture were not at all religious. I think it is more to do with the social pressure their parents may receive from the community. Some parents care whereas others do not. In case of some acquaintances, they never asked their spouses to convert.

[In my opinion, parents have to broaden their horizon and include people from other Muslim countries living in the USA. They also have to relax conditions and consider Muslims from other sects within Islam.]

I understand that you want to be accepted in your local Islamic Center :) So let me add a few more pointers that should have been there:

a) Parents should let their children make their own decisions. They should let the children grow into independent adults. If a child does not know how to make major decisions in life, then he/she is being set up for major failures.

b) Parents must let the children marry in other cultures and religions. They should keep the laminated map of the US in their bedrooms all the time. The number of states should give them some peace of mind. After all, Pakistan has only 4 major states. It would not hurt to visit the local museums and libraries to learn about different cultures, races, ethnicities, and sects that reside in the US. I am sure rest of it is self-explanatory.

[I am not advocating free mixing of boys and girls like the common American social scene.]

Why not? After all, when we work, study and socialize in this society, we mix freely. I have yet to attend a segregated gathering. I will refuse to attend one if I ever got an invite. Hopefully, we are responsible and professional adults. We live and breathe in a society where both men and women exist. For years, I have managed engagements where I was the only female. The rest of the team mostly consisted of Caucasian men. As long as there weren`t any macho Italian men on board, it was fun :). Again, when we mix freely we have choices to make. It seems that in your view, our youth should not have choices in all aspects of life. In certain matters, they should lead their lives by a guided and guarded path. If there are sharp turns or obstacles, then they should run to their parents or give in. How would these people learn to be risk takers or have any experience? With every choice we make, we are taking a calculated risk. We must. I will end with a sweet quote

``Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you.`` Huxley

Re: # 40

Ras: You know yourself better. I will leave it at that :) Just make sure that you don`t impose all the conditions on your daughter(s) and let your son(s) roam around scot-free. That can become an Amnesty International issue :)

ZahraJ #39,

I am being a nice parent.

Do not over react.

Naseeb.com anyone?

Ras - I am still recovering from the disappointment I received after hearing about ``supervised gatherings``. Are these kids in jail? Are you a parent or a jailor? How could you even think of doing this to your child? It means that you do not trust your child and you also have not been a good parent to inculcate certain values and traits in her/him.

By the way, was your own marriage a result of supervised gathering? Did you ever date a woman? Were you under observation when you were dating? Please be a nice parent.

Polite wishes

Jang - Thank you for your advice. I am not in favor of bringing *that* gene pool togther. We do not want our women to experience Sati in the hands of your traditionally demented guys :) Please feel free to practice it on your own women :) Just because someone marries in his or her own culture that does not mean a good genetic pool. I strongly believe in ruffling some feathers. Life has to have some fun and frolic and adventure :)

zahraj..all i mean is the group becomes larger and hence less ghettoization feeling. hindus offcourse are very prejudiced about lineage etc..but most interesting comments i have heard from older folks is ``kisise bhi shadi karo, acha gharana ho`` (marry anyone as far as the family is good..or genetic material is good ;-) )

ZahraJ:

I enjoyed your following comments:

``When it comes to Muslim guys, I have very little respect for them. But this enlightened man is an anomaly. We need more Muslims of this mindset. ``

[Based on my observations, the divorce rate among Pakistani men and America-born women is very high. I know many instances of such failed marriages. However, Pakistan-born girls seem to adjust better in changed environments. Perhaps they are used to male chauvinistic attitudes prevalent in the Pakistani society. The girls born in the USA do not seem to adjust with Pakistani born macho males. So people thinking of going home must think about social attitudes of males and females in Pakistan. ]

``What nonsense! With this kind of thinking, I am sure you must have landed with someone of your kind. In case you are single, then I think we need to start a campaign to hide the women of the world from your kind :)``

This is one of the benefit of writing on Chowk. Since you have very good observations, I suggest that you should write about your life experiences and project your point of view. After reading your post, I admire the style and force that you use in your writing.

All of us pass through our lives and give to life what life has given to us. I accept all the faults that you have found with me and please go ahead and start your campaign to hide the women from my kind.

RE: #11 by ZahraJ wrote

``Ras: I am very disappointed to read your post. Supervised Gatherings??? Are you really serious? That is such a traditional and backward concept/thinking.``

ZahraJ, that my story and I`m sticking to it.

Whatever happens in the future, wish us (parents) luck.

Ras

Jang -

I beg to differ with you. That may become a recipe for disaster. Your guys have their own issues. And my apologies, but we have not completely utilized the positive skills imparted by our hindu ancestors. If we have not done anything good with them in 50 plus years, I do not know if we will ever remember them after another 50 years. My example never referred to any Hindu or Sikh. The men I was referring to were Caucasians. Both my friend`s son-in-laws are Caucasians.

I have seen many Pakistani friends and cousins married to Christians (Caucasians and Hispanics) and Mormons. Among the well-educated ones, the combination works very well. These guys respect our women for their talent and mettle. I also think these unions are based on mental compatibility and the desire to emotionally support each other through the professional life cycle. As a result, there is a desire to look for an equal partner who can complement. Majority of the conservative and traditional Pakistani American men are not cut out for this kind of mindset, chemistry and philosophy.

Over the New Year, I was at my Pophi`s place. To my surprise, the luncheon for 8-10 guests was prepared from scratch by my brother-in-law (a mormon by religious background who converted to Islam - a scientist and a professor by profession). This is the only exception in my family who had converted.

Another close Sikh friend married her Hispanic business school class-mate. They have 2 daughters now. And this woman despite growing up in the West is a Sikhni to the core, but decided to marry outside of her culture. She is expecting her 3rd baby. Her sister is married to a Canadian-Sikh and they are fine with each other. This is an ideal exampe that even in one family two sisters can be completely different from each other. Here I agree with the writer`s following remark:

``Once the people are aware, they can find their own solutions. ``

I know of many professional Hindu women married to Jewish men. And these guys are kind of made for each other. I do not know if you remember the famous Kalpana Chawla, the astronaut, who married a French guy. Again, you rarely find *bright minds* settling down with someone from their own culture. I want to avoid generalizations, but at certain level opposite cultures attract. I do believe that the South Asian women need to marry outside. The world will be a harmonious place.

Last but not least, another close friend`s youngest sister is getting married to a Britisher this month. Both of them are pursuing doctorate degrees in UK. Interestingly, during the process of studying together, he has converted to Islam. The couple is to get married in the next few weeks.

Note: By the way, I do like CNN`s Dr. Sanjay.
Note2: On Chowk, we have Samina and Kulharee who can enlighten us more based on their own experiences provided they care to share.

#1 by ahmedmadani on April 6, 2006 10:19pm PT

I have no much knowledge about situation in foreign how marriages faring but a general observations. If there is some value think about it or discard it. Boys when looking for wife if possible study her mother. If you like her than you will be alright as time passes daughters start becoming like mothers. Girls should study possible father in Law as your man just turn like his father. As children are grown up is good time to enjoy life and if you are not going like to partner at that age its difficult. Best wishes for hunters but sure to keep in mind hunter will be hunted also.

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i think if pakistan and india will soon merge and this problem will be non-issue ..at least less of an issue. indians are mainstream ..from dilbert-asoke to dr sanjay on cnn to apu in simsons.

Re: # 29

This post is much better than certain stereotypes and images you have portrayed in your article.


On a different note: I am kind of amused that being an engineer(hopefully with some background in math) you chose not to provide any data about different categories you`ve listed. Apparently, you went with what the maulvis and maulvans in your local mosque told you. If I am wrong in my observation, then I think you may have calculated all the numbers in your head and forgot to put them in black and white. Can you please share them with us? Trust me, the Ummah will benefit from those numbers :)