The Pakistani American Hunt

Nasim,

Apparently, your intention is fine, but you do not come across as a vocal supporter of what you are alluding to. It does not seem that you truly believe in it.

[In my opinion, parents have to broaden their horizon and include people from other Muslim countries living in the USA. They also have to relax conditions and consider Muslims from other sects within Islam.]

In my opinion, parents who believe in controlling the lives of their kids need to go back to their caves than making the lives of their children miserable. They should not impose their views of life on their kids. In civilized countries, an adult makes the decision of his or her marriage becase it is his or her life. No one else will face, feel and experience the challenges of that life except that adult.

I am reminded of an elderly friend, a brilliant scientist and a first generation immigrant. The guy is a devout Muslim who happened to have equally bright daughters. Whenever we got together at any conference, he would always bring up his daughters. They were my age and he loved to share what they were up to. At our last meeting, he told me that both his daughters liked their non-muslim colleagues and vice versa. As a father, he wanted to be practical and not make them miserable. There were/are not that many educated and progressive Muslim men around so he was not going to let his professional daughters wait and suffer. The wise man blessed them and they are both happily married to the men they wanted to be with(and both are non-Muslims). The best part is that they are married to men who were in similar professional areas. Their ethnicity and race mattered the least. These are the educated and enlightened men who need to be saluted for their open mindedness and love for their daughters. When it comes to Muslim guys, I have very little respect for them. But this enlightened man is an anomaly. We need more Muslims of this mindset.

[Based on my observations, the divorce rate among Pakistani men and America-born women is very high. I know many instances of such failed marriages. However, Pakistan-born girls seem to adjust better in changed environments. Perhaps they are used to male chauvinistic attitudes prevalent in the Pakistani society. The girls born in the USA do not seem to adjust with Pakistani born macho males. So people thinking of going home must think about social attitudes of males and females in Pakistan. ]

What nonsense! With this kind of thinking, I am sure you must have landed with someone of your kind. In case you are single, then I think we need to start a campaign to hide the women of the world from your kind :)

Best Wishes.

Re: # 28

Salim saheb:

I agree with your ideas. However at what level this assimilation occurs will determine the ultimate fate of Pakistanis. Jews in the USA and Parsi community in India are two prime examples of minorities.

Frankly, the integration and assimilation of minorities is becoming a big issue in Europe where immigrants from former colonies flocked to their imperial masters.

I wrote this article just to draw attention to this issue. Once the people are aware, they can find their own solutions.

Our people physically live in the USA but try to preserve their own culture. That causes great stresses in human relationships.

All of us have own comfort zones. I know people who do not mind drinking, dancing, dating or gambling. At the same time, I have seen people who keep beard, force Hijab on women and then force their kids in marriages.

In this tug of war, many decent people get hurt. So hopefully we can reflect on ourselves and make rational decisions.

Nasim Hassan {``I have seen people rejecting a good match for the simple reason of being of Shia or Sunni background. In fact, it is very difficult to retain our identity even as a simple Muslim.``}

Hassan Sahib,

This is an important subject and affects the diaspora of Pakistanis, especially in the US, Europe, and Australia. You have raised some very interestiing points and offered several suggestions. As a young man growing up in the US, I too was under all kinds of pressure from family and friends regarding suitable matches, ethnicity, religion, sect, education, and occupations. In general, I found many Pakistani-American girls to be on the shallow side - mentally and socially. I never quite understood the obsession of Pakistani girls with confrontation. I often thought that if they are so argumentative as single girls, can you imagine what they would do as wives? For some reason, Indian girls, whether Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, or Muslims, are much more pleasant than Pakistani ones in soical settings. While marrying a Pakistani girl from Pakistan is the default option, I just felt that there is very little in common between western-oriented Pakistanis and home-grown ones. Also, I did not want to become another ``marriage-for-visa`` statistic. Thank God, love solved all such problems, and I ended up marrying for no other reason than the fact that she loved me and I loved her.

At least in the US, almost every immigrant group has undergone similar issues. When the ``mail order`` bride option dried up in the `20s due to immigration laws, second-generation Americans started to marry within their own communities - Italians, Jews, Irish, Polish, etc. After WWII, with increased mobility, ``white`` people started intermarrying to such a great extent that today there is a common ``European`` race. Today, there is a great deal of mixing among whites, hispanics, and African-Americans.

Whether we like it or not, whether we approve or not, history is bound to repeat itself and roughly 30% of Pakistani Americans will marry out of the community and get assimilated in the great melting pot. As you noted, the divorce rate of Pakistanis is approaching that of the native population. And why not? After all, human beings, thrown into an environment will tend to behave in similar ways. That has been the experience of the Jewish presence in America. Also, a greater number of Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs have been intermarrying in the US. I find this to be quite wholesome and hope that this mixing will bring people much closer as human beings.

I have tried to record my observations of Pakistani American people. In fact, a study on such social issues should be done by professional socialogist. However I tried to write down my observations objectively including the number of failed marriages and causes. .

I have also made a statement about inter-racial marriages among low income group. There is nothing extra ordinary about this observation. The morals, values, param para and religion are retained by the middle class in any society.

For the people who are very rich, such things hardly matter. Their focus is on money. Their kids have freedom, resources, money at their disposal. So this group does not have any problem of finding a match anywhere.

The boys and girls from low income group go through a grind at the bottom. With husband and wife working and still not making enough money is hard. This group simply can not control their children effectively. So the children are free to experiment and interact with any one.

I personally know many low income and rich people whose kids have gone into drugs and their kids have married Americans of all races. Again, I do not have statistics to show how many have married outside their ethnic group.

I have also read the comments about using eharmony, dating with whites and opening to other races.

The people who have make such statements should look a little deeper into the lives of Pakistani Americans. Pakistanis are conservative, ethnocentric and prejudiced people. I do not exclude myself from this group.

Not to talk about non-muslims, the majority of Pakistanis like to stay within their small groups. Talk to Shia, Sunni, Ahmedi or Syeds in the Pakistani community. The most liberal Pakistanis will allow their kids to marry muslims from other countries. Even here, I have seen Pakistanis very reluctant to marry their kids with African Americans.

I hope the readers of this article will look into the social issue closely. I have tried to raise passive voices of decent girls whose parents insist on various attributes of prospective groom. The parents keep on looking while decent obedient kids keep on waiting for ideal match.

Lastly, a writer looks at things from a certain vantage point. Other people see the same conditions from a different angle. This makes our life very interesting.

I wish all readers best of luck. Nasim Hassan

#21 by Raw_Dust on April 4, 2006 4:06pm PT
why cant desis go out and date and be able to make choices on their own? what does parents have to do with their children`s relationship issues?

Raw sirjee..my view is that this is one of the fundamental reasons why our society is morally corrupt..if we are meddling with the natural chemistry of mate-selection, allowing nepotism-biradari and other constructs to dominate, how can there be improvement in the gene-pool? my idea is very muddled..but i blame it on the unnatural selection based breeding.

ZahraJ #10

`` In order to solve this question, you need to know the % of ``not-so-fair`` Indians. Apparently, the results are equal to each other :) ``

5% of Indians would be ``fair``. Of course criteria for fair varies among Indians who are darker than Pakistanis.

why don`t they try eHarmony ? ;-)

`` In 2000, backed by over 35 years of clinical and empirical research, Dr. Warren transformed the way singles are introduced online when he launched eHarmony - the first relationship service on the Web to use a scientific approach to match highly compatible singles. Millions of people of all ages, ethnicities, and religious backgrounds have used eHarmony`s patented Compatibility Matching System™ to find the love of their lives.``

I have seen that Pakistanis don`t mingle with american society much. They are small in numbers here and statistics show that they won`t be able to find match easily.

Or Halal dating ;-) see..http://www.asmahasan.com/writing/archives/000124.html..

I have seen Pakistani men and women going back to Pakistan to find wife ..

But I don`t think that it is a ``social crisis`` as author is pointing out...

Re: # 22

[my mother used to say some people have no shame.]

She must be a very wise woman to know her son :)

Polite Wishes.

#20 by ZahraJ on April 4, 2006 2:59pm PT
having a younger wife is certainly more decent and moral than having a bit of hispanic a bit of black or a combination of both ASTAGFER-LULLAH.
my mother used to say some people have no shame.

why cant desis go out and date and be able to make choices on their own? what does parents have to do with their children`s relationship issues? there are libraries, bars, theatre, grocery stores, latenight diners, quaint deli shops, campuses, etc. etc. that keep things floating..

Re: # 15

Kulharee - It`s strange that you asked me about the Natives. I just got back from an exciting trip where one of my destinations was the land of the Natives. They are very interesting people. I will come back and share some observations, but if I were residing in a state where a significant % belonged to the Natives then I would have considered dating one. I truly appreciate the Native`s interest in art and culture. Hope that gives a perspective.

#19 - Not everyone believes in ordering a mail order companion who is 20 years younger.

re:#18
sorry scout my question was directed at zahraj

Re: # 17

that is not my post

#13 by scout on April 3, 2006 8:55pm PT
mixed African Americans (they can be very very very sweet - I want to point out the hispanic combination).

i take it you are speaking from experience

I recently have seen two divorces among the peoples belonging to these two cultures among the DESI cult.

The fast forward approach and superiority complex of ABCD culture and learning curve for a FOB in Amreeci-desi society is one of the issue newly wed couple deal in marriages like that. The cross-cultural clashes among marriages between ABCD and DESIS are tough to overcome consider the fact that most marriage are arrange.

Nevertheless, being different (I don’t mean being stupid and annoying) has its own charms if bride and groom take there time and develop love and respect for each other.

Rukna ho to soo bahanay
Jana ho to raastay baray hain

Re: # 14

Zahra, what about African Americans and Native Americans?