Muslims in Infidelistan: A Ready Reckoner

In the words of dear Saima Shah, I would also say:

``How could I have missed this!. Hilarious, smart and witty!!.``

How can a Matarrua have such a sense of sarcastic humour, I doubt?

#460,
Dear Mr. Naqshbandi,
Thank you very much for your appreciation.

#459 by SaimaShah on December 1, 2006 12:40pm PT
{``How could I have missed this!. Hilarious, smart and witty!!.

I loved the 27 kids trailing behind the 6 adults.. Way to go!!. O man I do so want to wear a Burqa and pray at an airport just to watch the reactions. Alas, such joys are denied me in my liberal modern incarnation:)
Thanks for this--I will send to as many people as I know.
Rgds
S``}


Dear Saima,
Thank you for posting your encouragement. When established and talented writers like you provide their encouragement and support, novices like me can only improve. Thanks.

Effing hilarious! Brilliant Salim sahib!

How could I have missed this!. Hilarious, smart and witty!!.

I loved the 27 kids trailing behind the 6 adults.. Way to go!!. O man I do so want to wear a Burqa and pray at an airport just to watch the reactions. Alas, such joys are denied me in my liberal modern incarnation:)

Thanks for this--I will send to as many people as I know.

Rgds

S

Ustad Lush Hay.

nandan #456,
Nandan, my good friend,
Thank you very much for your encouraging feedback. One of these days we will all be able to laugh at the trivial issues that we humans have created to make lives so difficult for all of us. I appreciate your appreciation. It means a lot to me.

Salim Bhai,

That was simply brilliant.Its was the funniest and wiitiest article I read on chowk.Congrats ,write a few more of these.

Regards

Nandan Nadkarni

Zehra`s Swan Song # 448:

``The beautiful legendary song sung only once by a swan in its lifetime, as it is dying.``

Bye Zehra, the ugly duckling. So sucking on your thumb did work, walking talking poison pill. Please do not bother to get up, stay dead and do not try to sing another song.

Please sign this petition. Islamic fundamentalism epidemic has killed far too many people and gone on for a few centuries too many without decent humans doing something about it. Now is your chance. The next step will be for the UN to push all Islamic countries to legistlate these into their respective constitutions, or face sanctions.


MUSLIM MANIFESTO: Like men, women should have the right to decide how they will live, dress, travel, marry and divorce; if they do not enjoy these rights, they are clearly second-class citizens.

MUSLIM MANIFESTO: All critiques of Islam should be countered not by threats and violence, but by rational counter-argument

MUSLIM MANIFESTO: We strongly denounce anti-Semitism. We accept Israel`s right to exist.

MUSLIM MANIFESTO: We accept the legitimacy of the secular state and the secular law. Islamic law, or sharia, was developed at a time when Muslims were living in homogenous communities. In the modern world, virtually all societies are pluralistic, consisting of different faiths and of different perceptions of each faith, including Islam. In this pluralistic setting, a legal system based on a particular version of a single religion cannot be imposed on all citizens.

MUSLIM MANIFESTO: We support and cherish democracy — not because we reject the sovereignty of the Almighty over people, but because we believe that this sovereignty is manifested in the general will of people in a democratic and pluralistic society. We do not accept theocratic rule

MUSLIM MANIFESTO: we cherish religious liberty. Every human has the right to believe or not to believe in Islam or in any other religion All Muslims furthermore have the right to reject and change their religion if desired

Read the complete manifesto and sign the petition here:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/akyol_baran200603010816.asp

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Re: # 442 dear zahraj

``The surgeries could save their lives, noted the physicians who perform them, because, according to some interpretations of Islamic law, if a male relative suspects them of having premarital sex, the woman is a criminal. In some countries, such as Saudi Arabia and Nigeria, the penalty could be death``

zahraj you are a sensible women/girl but try to understand that on suspesion a crime cannot be proved anywhere in the world and specially as per islamic law the premarital sex is prohibited but if the relatives suspect of prmarital sex then the burden of proof is on the relatives and they will have to provide four eyewitnesses to attract the Hudood law for the capital punishment. it is also considered in determining the sentence whether the culprit was married or unmarried. if unmarried then the punishment is whipping but if married then the death sentence is ordered.

do you have any precedent of death for premarital sex in saudi arabia or any where just for the relatives suspected.

i dont want to be rude with you which is nowadays is a norm here but in the next time be carefull in relating anything to islam or islamic law because these are very sensitive issues and before mentioning anyhting such issues you need to study it well then should come to any conclusion. otherwise you will plague islam by your raw thinking and wrong conclusions. which has already done severe damage to islam.

ghulam haider

Re: # 442 dear zahraj

``The surgeries could save their lives, noted the physicians who perform them, because, according to some interpretations of Islamic law, if a male relative suspects them of having premarital sex, the woman is a criminal. In some countries, such as Saudi Arabia and Nigeria, the penalty could be death``

zahraj you are a sensible women/girl but try to understand that on suspesion a crime cannot be proved anywhere in the world and specially as per islamic law the premarital sex is prohibited but if the relatives suspect of prmarital sex then the burden of proof is on the relatives and they will have to provide four eyewitnesses to attract the Hudood law for the capital punishment. it is also considered in determining the sentence whether the culprit was married or unmarried. if unmarried then the punishment is whipping but if married then the death sentence is ordered.

do you have any precedent of death for premarital sex in saudi arabia or any where just for the relatives suspected.

i dont want to be rude with you which is nowadays is a norm here but in the next time be carefull in relating anything to islam or islamic law because these are very sensitive issues and before mentioning anyhting such issues you need to study it well then should come to any conclusion. otherwise you will plague islam by your raw thinking and wrong conclusions. which has already done severe damage to islam.

ghulam haider

Re: # 442 dear zahraj

``The surgeries could save their lives, noted the physicians who perform them, because, according to some interpretations of Islamic law, if a male relative suspects them of having premarital sex, the woman is a criminal. In some countries, such as Saudi Arabia and Nigeria, the penalty could be death``

zahraj you are a sensible women/girl but try to understand that on suspesion a crime cannot be proved anywhere in the world and specially as per islamic law the premarital sex is prohibited but if the relatives suspect of prmarital sex then the burden of proof is on the relatives and they will have to provide four eyewitnesses to attract the Hudood law for the capital punishment. it is also considered in determining the sentence whether the culprit was married or unmarried. if unmarried then the punishment is whipping but if married then the death sentence is ordered.

do you have any precedent of death for premarital sex in saudi arabia or any where just for the relatives suspected.

i dont want to be rude with you which is nowadays is a norm here but in the next time be carefull in relating anything to islam or islamic law because these are very sensitive issues and before mentioning anyhting such issues you need to study it well then should come to any conclusion. otherwise you will plague islam by your raw thinking and wrong conclusions. which has already done severe damage to islam.

to every one

i am monitoring this article for last five days and thinking and rethinking and reeeeeeeeethinking and now i am thin-king on the things coming out here. now it seems like cartoon network and the ``tom and jerry show`` is on air. i hope people will agree with me.

Now Everyone is invited to help me out to decide:

who is tom and who is jerry??????????????????????????????????????

by the way chuha

---

n bhai what you want to be ? mind not to be jerry it compliments your name (salim_chuha-n) sounds good.

its just a slip of typing or might be tongue dont mind chauhaan.




ghulam haider

A swan song -

Before consummating their marriage, both Mrs and Mr. Chauhan were not able to consult an ob/gyn due to their repressive upbringing and regressive surroundings. As a result, Mr. Chauhan stayed obsessed with the subject and topic of women`s body parts. Now, he is expecting a baby in the near future. It does not seem that he was fortunate enough to talk about his fascination(s) with his wife. A recipe for disaster!

We hope and pray that in the future, newly married men(or those who are still learning after being in their marriage for decades) on Chowk address anatomy related questions with their sexologist or wives vs. exposing their lack of understanding in open. Although Chowk is about learning and sharing, but some of these sensitive subject areas better be learned and discussed in the confines of one’s bedroom. In order to do that, we strongly advise (and not advice) all married men on Chowk to spend more time with their spouses to develop a healthy emotional, mental and sexual bond. This ezine was not created to generate distance between the newly weds. If you are a newly wed and have been spending more time on Chowk than you do with your spouse, then please consult a psychiatrist asap. Please learn from Mr. C’s situation. By spending more time on Chowk, he has deprived himself from the initial learning opportunities he could have availed at home. As a result, he has reached a mental state where he only utters unpleasant hysterical outbursts. Apparently, he has developed an acute sense of depravation in all matters of life. We all hope that he consults a sexologist asap. In these tough times, we wish Mrs. C the best! Sit tight, Mrs. C! We are all praying for your spouse’s sanity.

Chowk’s Junta wishes both Mr. and Mrs. Chauhan a happy journey exploring each other with the help of a sexologist and authentic on-line research material. We hope that their exploration process will not cause a population explosion in the Muslim world :))))) May the couple discover peace and harmony in each other’s company. As a result, may we get peace and harmony back on Chowk! Amen.

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#442, {``The hymen is the thin, fleshy membrane found at the opening to the vagina, long treated as a sign of virginity because it is usually torn by the first experience of sexual intercourse. ``}

So what happens to all those torn hymens? Are they recycled or simply discarded? Is there any international standard concerning their reuse or replacement?

#442, {``Hymens can also be torn by athletic activities. ``}

And all this time we thought that you were an atheletic supporter.

#442, Don`t you feminazis ever write anything that`s original? Why do you have to copy & paste everything. I refuse to read second-hand crap.

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To reduce the curiosity of devious minds, I decided to post the following from my ilog. An old article, but reveals a despicable mindset of some muslim countries. That mindset is no different from what is exhibited on Chowk by bunch of imposters.

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Restoring Virginity Becomes Risky Business
31 May 2005,

From: Women`s eNews [mailto:womensenewstoday@womensenews.org]
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 4:12 AM

HEALTH & ENVIRONMENT

Restoring Virginity Becomes Risky Business

By Sandy Kobrin - WeNews correspondent

LOS ANGELES (WOMENSENEWS)--Some doctors perform these specialized surgeries on women late at night when there`s no one else in the waiting room.

The patients are most often women of Middle Eastern descent, some with
origins from countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. They frequently give false names and pay in cash. They arrive alone, faces hidden, under
elaborate hats, wigs, scarves and sunglasses and, afraid, say doctors.

They are there for hymenoplasties, or the repair of hymens, which, when
intact, are widely recognized as evidence of virginity. The surgeries could save their lives, noted the physicians who perform them, because, according to some interpretations of Islamic law, if a male relative suspects them of having premarital sex, the woman is a criminal. In some countries, such as Saudi Arabia and Nigeria, the penalty could be death.

Although for the most part, many of the women who seek these surgeries live in the U.S. with family members or to attend school, many return to their home countries when its time to look for a husband.

Doctors say that while there are no official statistics, they have seen an increase in requests for more hymen repair surgeries in recent years. In addition, more doctors are receiving threats.

``While we have no concrete numbers, doctors have reported growth in the
number of hymenoplasties,`` Dr. V. Leroy Young, chair of the emerging trends task force of the Arlington Heights, Ill., American Society of Plastic Surgeons, told Women`s eNews.

``Yes, there has been a degree of danger to doctors from fundamentalist
groups who believe you are violating a law or culture. You can get in bit of trouble.``

Young also said that it`s not just women with Middle Eastern backgrounds
seeking the surgeries. There has also been an increase in the number of
women requesting hymen repair from both the Orthodox Jewish and Christian fundamentalist communities, as well as from women of all nationalities who want the surgery as a sexual enhancement.

``Within the fundamentalist Christian population as well there has been an apparent recent movement towards `traditional family values` and there is pressure put on women to be virgins,`` Young said.

The hymen is the thin, fleshy membrane found at the opening to the vagina, long treated as a sign of virginity because it is usually torn by the first experience of sexual intercourse. Hymens can also be torn by athletic activities.

Typical hymen repair surgery involves stitching the remnants of a torn hymen together and inserting a gelatin capsule that contains a blood-mimicking substance. After the hymen has been surgically repaired, a woman will bleed the fake blood the next time she has sexual intercourse. The surgery, which costs from $2,500 to $4,500, is performed on an outpatient basis. Healing can take from a few days to a few weeks.

Doctors Get Death Threats

The women who undergo the procedures are not the only ones who fear for
their lives or well-being. A number of U.S. physicians who perform these
surgeries have received death threats by some who identify themselves as
Muslims.

Young said that some doctors have received e-mails and phone calls
threatening them or their staff with physical harm.

The threats to the doctors shadow the greater danger faced by women who
undergo the surgery. Many live in fear of violence or honor killing, a
practice in which a woman is murdered by her family members for supposedly shaming or tarnishing the family name with ``unchaste`` behavior. The practice occurs in traditional communities around the world, including the United States and Europe.

A report on honor killings by the Los Angeles-based Muslim Women`s League says that while sexual relationships outside of marriage are prohibited, honor killings are not a part of Islam.

``The problem of `honor killings` is not a problem of morality or of ensuring that women maintain their own personal virtue; rather, it is a problem of domination, power and hatred of women who, in these instances, are viewed as nothing more than servants to the family, both physically and symbolically,`` the report said.

The Islamic law of chastity before marriage does not distinguish between men and women. But women are often uniformly singled out for punishment of sexual crimes.

Dr. Laila Al-Marayati, communications director for the Muslim Women`s League and a gynecologist, says that women seek hymen-repair surgeries to cope with cultural pressures and not to comply with Islamic law, which does not stipulate a need to check a woman`s virginity.

``While Islam requires that both men and women be chaste before marriage; it doesn`t require women to prove it,`` she said. ``The need for surgery is because of the culture in some countries. Those same cultures do not require a man to prove his chasteness.``

``It is sad that doctors are being threatened because proving chastity is not part of Islam,`` she added.

Fear of Reprisal

Many doctors interviewed who have heard about the threats or have been
threatened themselves would only talk off the record to Women`s eNews for fear of reprisal. They did not want to advertise the fact that they perform the surgeries and said they like to keep a low profile on their work with hymen repair.

Dr. David Matlock, a Beverly Hills gynecologist, was an exception. Matlock, who pioneered laser vaginal rejuvenation, said he has been performing hymenoplasties on hundreds of women for over 21 years. Most, he said, were of Middle Eastern descent.

He said he recently received death threats in the mail and his office has received numerous calls from men, identifying themselves as Muslims, who threatened to kill him and his office workers if he did not stop performing hymen repair.

``They called my office numerous times and sent letters to my office with
pictures of dead and bloodied people,`` he said. ``It was unnerving to say the least. I can now better understand when these women come in and say to me: `I must do this. I`m going back to Iran and I could be killed.```

Southern California is home to a large number of people who have emigrated from Iran. Matlock noted that, while many of patients have lived in the U.S. for much of their lives, they still need to adhere to traditional practices and often undergo the surgery before looking for a husband.

Matlock said last year he contacted the FBI, who told him to keep a low
profile and to stop advertising the procedure in local papers such as the L.A. Weekly. He said he was told by the FBI that the notes were real and the people who sent them knew what they were doing.

The local Los Angeles FBI office declined to say whether it had received
calls from surgeons reporting death threats for similar reasons.

Dr. John Miklos has been performing hymenoplasties in Atlanta for the past five years on women ranging in age from 19 to 30. ``I have had many Middle Eastern women beg me to come in at night and then ask me to destroy the records. They say they could fall into the hands of family members and both of our lives could be in danger.``

More Cautious Now

Miklos says colleagues have told him about receiving threats and he has been warned by the women coming in for the procedure. In recent months, he says, he has become more cautious himself. He no longer advertises the procedure in local newspapers and he said most of his business comes from personal referral.

``These kind of threats are no different than doctors getting death threats from performing abortions,`` said Miklos. ``It`s insane that the women are so scared but it is shocking and a shame that doctors too have to be nervous.``

Dr. Bruce Allen, a prominent Toronto gynecologist, advertises hymen repair prominently on his Web site. When contacted by Women`s eNews, however, Allen said he does not do the procedure and refused to discuss his advertising and Web site.

Dr. Ronald Blatt of the Manhattan Center for Vaginal Surgery began doing
hymen repair about two years ago and reports a slight increase in the number of hymenoplasties. In the first year, the center performed two of the surgeries. Blatt could not be specific about which countries the women were from, but emphasized that the center works to be discreet about the procedure.

``We`ve only had about six and they were women who were born somewhere in the Middle East, but we try to keep a low profile. We only do it when asked.``

Sandy Kobrin is a writer based in Los Angeles who frequently writes about the plastic surgery industry.

For more information:

More Women Seek Vaginal Plastic Surgery: -
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2067

For any comments about this and any other story, please send a letter to the editors at http://www.womensenews.org/letters/discus.pl

Re: # 433

Shut up! Make sure that you learn to spell hormones. There is no such word as ``harmone``. I hope you have some hormones and not a harmonium in your system :) As I said earlier, this ain`t your Delhi. Consult thy physician asap.

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#413, Saminasha, {``I have submitted at least three poems that werent predicated on maudling or sleazy descriptions of sex....not a word. Meanwhile, that same work has been well received by a literary awards group and two journals will be publishing it. But this work does not ``suit`` chowk.com`s purposes. Go figure.``}

Dear Lady,
It is quite possible that the poems you submitted were plagiarized from Temporal`s own vast collection of molested poetry. As for the stupidity and low standards of a literary awards group and two other journals, certainly, you cannot hold Chowk responsible for their willingness to accept bribes.

{``I don`t need my dap here-I am secure enough to know that my work is solid and appreciated in other south asian and american venues.``}

Now that`s more like it. Please take your solid waste and have it appreciated where it is valued. Oh yes, don`t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you. Bye.