nabendu debsharma April 18, 2006
#9 Posted by kaami on April 23, 2006 10:47:46 am
Interesting thoughts....
but i think there are a few discrepancies....
if u think that a span of 80 odd years is not enough to judge someone and commit him/her to eternal heaven or hell .... how can 560 odd years (80 x 7, assuming that by reincarnation, you are referring to the ``saat janam`` acc. to the hindu belief) be comparable to eternity....
and giving someone a miserable life just because he/she did something bad in her previous life is also a bit unjust to say the least
i believe that if someone is born in difficult and trying circumstances and he/she is judged accordingly..... islam says that the more you have, the more you will be questioned about... and for those whose ``legitimate`` prayers are not answered in this world, they are rewarded in the hereafter
and yes.... God knows what you are going to do in your life span but whatever you do is after all your own decision... whatever one does is of one`s own free will, and one will be rewarded/punished accordingly... the fact that God already knew what one was going to do doesn`t make a difference... WE make the decisions... God wants us to make the right decision but He doesn`t force it because if He does....... what about the concept of vile and virtue ?
i know i`m sounding ambiguous but that`s how i think it works.... i think i can convince you but that might require still more arguments and analogies.... but ......
on a similar note, i think a more confusing question can be: if nothing can happen in this world without the will of God, why will we be condemned for something, that God willed?
but i think there are a few discrepancies....
if u think that a span of 80 odd years is not enough to judge someone and commit him/her to eternal heaven or hell .... how can 560 odd years (80 x 7, assuming that by reincarnation, you are referring to the ``saat janam`` acc. to the hindu belief) be comparable to eternity....
and giving someone a miserable life just because he/she did something bad in her previous life is also a bit unjust to say the least
i believe that if someone is born in difficult and trying circumstances and he/she is judged accordingly..... islam says that the more you have, the more you will be questioned about... and for those whose ``legitimate`` prayers are not answered in this world, they are rewarded in the hereafter
and yes.... God knows what you are going to do in your life span but whatever you do is after all your own decision... whatever one does is of one`s own free will, and one will be rewarded/punished accordingly... the fact that God already knew what one was going to do doesn`t make a difference... WE make the decisions... God wants us to make the right decision but He doesn`t force it because if He does....... what about the concept of vile and virtue ?
i know i`m sounding ambiguous but that`s how i think it works.... i think i can convince you but that might require still more arguments and analogies.... but ......
on a similar note, i think a more confusing question can be: if nothing can happen in this world without the will of God, why will we be condemned for something, that God willed?
#8 Posted by harimau on April 22, 2006 4:42:00 pm
Ref mariam1062 #1
[.... That is one thing you will be questioned about one day, and that again God has promised. That even though the truth tried knocking on your door, you never made and effort in realizing that its there.]
Are you referring to Jehovah`s Witnesses by any chance? They are the ones knocking on doors.
Or re you talking about the Hare Krishnas who are to be found on street corners and airports?
[.... That is one thing you will be questioned about one day, and that again God has promised. That even though the truth tried knocking on your door, you never made and effort in realizing that its there.]
Are you referring to Jehovah`s Witnesses by any chance? They are the ones knocking on doors.
Or re you talking about the Hare Krishnas who are to be found on street corners and airports?
#7 Posted by Sanatani on April 21, 2006 11:49:15 am
Mr Debsarma,
Well your Macaulayite and Missionary education shows. Care to elaborate why religion is a way of life? Also enlighten us why a way of life is superior to a set of rituals?
It is a pity that people like you are so superficial that:
a) They try to interpret apples into oranges (Your way of trying to interpret karam and punar janam through a Papist education and worldview {worse still you have actually studied in a school named after that arch criminal Xavier and are flaunting it} without going deep into the exegiencies of the concept.)
b) Despite your education (or should I call it literacy) you have not even attempted to understand the Sanatani or let me be Catholic (no pun intended) the overall Hindu thought (Vichar) regarding this subject.
Sanatani
P.S. In case Laden, Zawhiri read the full truth about xavier they would commit suicide or convert to Papism and replace bendict as the next ``infalliable``
Well your Macaulayite and Missionary education shows. Care to elaborate why religion is a way of life? Also enlighten us why a way of life is superior to a set of rituals?
It is a pity that people like you are so superficial that:
a) They try to interpret apples into oranges (Your way of trying to interpret karam and punar janam through a Papist education and worldview {worse still you have actually studied in a school named after that arch criminal Xavier and are flaunting it} without going deep into the exegiencies of the concept.)
b) Despite your education (or should I call it literacy) you have not even attempted to understand the Sanatani or let me be Catholic (no pun intended) the overall Hindu thought (Vichar) regarding this subject.
Sanatani
P.S. In case Laden, Zawhiri read the full truth about xavier they would commit suicide or convert to Papism and replace bendict as the next ``infalliable``
#6 Posted by harish_hyd on April 21, 2006 12:44:39 am
Interesting. Hinduism (as do Buddhism and Jainism) talks about Karma and re-birth is linked to the Karma theory. If we choose Cricket as an analogy, God is merely the umpire, we are the players, we choose what to do and what not to.
#5 Posted by khurram on April 20, 2006 9:19:55 am
What I don`t understand about re-birth is the connection between the `self` in this life and the previous life. Since, I have no memory or any other physical connection with a previous life, why should I consider it `me` ?
#4 Posted by Ally on April 20, 2006 6:42:38 am
I second number three, Mariam i find your reply confusing.
So basically if God knows the script of your life, then you are just going along passing time till you die. You`re every little move He knows about as He pre-ordained it. So when you die you will go to God and say, `Well my Lord, i did as you had written in my Kismet`
So much for choice and free will. If you are following a pre ordianed existence then you don`t really have a choice, as all your actions God knows about. So then why would he send anyone to Heaven or Hell? Why have this world in the first place then?
Nabendu Sahib, do you really want to come back to this world?
So basically if God knows the script of your life, then you are just going along passing time till you die. You`re every little move He knows about as He pre-ordained it. So when you die you will go to God and say, `Well my Lord, i did as you had written in my Kismet`
So much for choice and free will. If you are following a pre ordianed existence then you don`t really have a choice, as all your actions God knows about. So then why would he send anyone to Heaven or Hell? Why have this world in the first place then?
Nabendu Sahib, do you really want to come back to this world?
#3 Posted by Humsab on April 19, 2006 10:17:10 pm
# 1
marium1062 ji
You have not answered the question in your first paragraph. If God knows what one is going to do in life then why punishment.
You say, `If you don`t do what God tells you to do, you are going to be punished for that and vice versa.`
Not doing what God has already decided and on top of that He also knows and taking decision on ones own to prove him wrong will invite punishment?
My Dear Lady, please try to clear up logic whether one has to go on the path that God has already seen for one even if wrong or take his /her own decisions and disobey God.? In either case punishment will be there.
Regards
marium1062 ji
You have not answered the question in your first paragraph. If God knows what one is going to do in life then why punishment.
You say, `If you don`t do what God tells you to do, you are going to be punished for that and vice versa.`
Not doing what God has already decided and on top of that He also knows and taking decision on ones own to prove him wrong will invite punishment?
My Dear Lady, please try to clear up logic whether one has to go on the path that God has already seen for one even if wrong or take his /her own decisions and disobey God.? In either case punishment will be there.
Regards
#1 Posted by mariam1062 on April 19, 2006 5:40:17 am
I am a Muslim by birth and I found your article really interesting. Here is what I believe in. God knows about what you are going to do in your entire life. But whatever you do is your own decision. If you don`t do what God tells you to do, you are going to be punished for that and vice versa. When you roll a ball on a slope you know that it’s going to go down, even when you are not directing its course. It is the same concept.
About rebirth, I do agree that you have thought out your logic well enough, but I don`t believe in rebirth into the same world. Life after death (in heaven or hell) is based on what you did in your past. In heaven or hell, I will be aware of what good I did in my life or what is it that I am being punished for. On the other hand, in the concept of rebirth that you believe in, one is punished or rewarded for something on which he did not have any control. One cannot be judged on the basis of something the he did not do on his own free will. This unjust method cannot be the way of God.
Plus, Allah has promised that everyone will eventually be tested on the basis of the circumstances he/she was placed in. Like if you study physics, you cannot be tested for biology. It’s as simple as that.
Also, you do seem to be intelligent and it seems that you do think of life and its related parameters, so I guess, for you the search for the truth is easier. That’s your choice to make here, do you make an effort to correct yourself if you find something that you or people around you believe in or activities or rituals they indulge in. That is one thing you will be questioned about one day, and that again God has promised. That even though the truth tried knocking on your door, you never made and effort in realizing that its there.
About rebirth, I do agree that you have thought out your logic well enough, but I don`t believe in rebirth into the same world. Life after death (in heaven or hell) is based on what you did in your past. In heaven or hell, I will be aware of what good I did in my life or what is it that I am being punished for. On the other hand, in the concept of rebirth that you believe in, one is punished or rewarded for something on which he did not have any control. One cannot be judged on the basis of something the he did not do on his own free will. This unjust method cannot be the way of God.
Plus, Allah has promised that everyone will eventually be tested on the basis of the circumstances he/she was placed in. Like if you study physics, you cannot be tested for biology. It’s as simple as that.
Also, you do seem to be intelligent and it seems that you do think of life and its related parameters, so I guess, for you the search for the truth is easier. That’s your choice to make here, do you make an effort to correct yourself if you find something that you or people around you believe in or activities or rituals they indulge in. That is one thing you will be questioned about one day, and that again God has promised. That even though the truth tried knocking on your door, you never made and effort in realizing that its there.
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