Love Ya, Dubya

Imprisonment without trial, torture, border controls,identity cards, controlled media, telephone tapping, internal security services. Is this Hitler`s Germany? Cold War Russia? North Korea? - all the bad countries ruled by dictators we were taught to fear? No it`s the Bush and Blair 21st century `democracy`- it`s good for us and they never stop telling us so on the TV. The trouble is, the poorly educated masses our capitalist system produces are ready to believe anything if they can be kept scared.

netizen,

On the contrary, Gujarat is definitely in context. it helps in understanding why Bush is being welcomed in India only by Hindus. This is obviously a religious problem. There is a religious affinity for Bush among hardline Hindus, while even moderates do not like the man for his war mongering and religious fanaticism. I am unable to comprehend what affinity, if at all muslims have for the Saudi king, or why they should protest in `order to be unbiased`.

Guantenamo Bay is the making of Bushs camp. It is a pressing need that hundreds of prisoners, handed over by despots close to Bush are being `interrogated` and `tortured` in camps in Cuba.

I am sure that the Indians will have to respond to these unfortunate world events. Otherwise, it would appear as if we are pretending to be a `secular` country, while actually shaking the bloodied hands of fanatics, out of economic rather than religious reasons.

#251 by parthaab on March 3, 2006 10:25am PT


Bush is hated by muslims specifically as he is now bombing muslim countries


So Indian muslims hate bush because he`s ``bombing`` iraqi muslims but mushy and the saudi king are fine because they`re just responsible for killing indian citizens...

Commie parthaab and Islamist Farzana sitting on a tree....

Re: # 253

parthaab:

now your post is getting from evasive to irrevelant.

its sad but what has it do with bushes visit??? and the leftist and islamist protests????

Re: # 251

parthaab:

``I still dont see what the Saudi king - as an autocratic ruler of an oil rich country, and propped up by the CIA, can do anything about Gujarat or Gauntenamo.``

it seems you have some problems comprehending #249 post.

let me help you to understand, so that you can reply:

what masanamuthu wants to know is, if a barbaric and despot ruler like the saudi shaikh is given a warm welcome by the indian gov. without any protest from the leftist and the jihadis, then why can`t the ``barbaric`` ruler like bush be given a similar welcome without any protest from the leftist and the islamists?

the question has nothing to do with gujarat.

There are so many countries where severe forms of torture are a part of everyday life. Occupying forces are responsible for the persecution and murder of innocent people in places as diverse as Tibet, the Middle East, and the islands of the Pacific; and public policy has long supported the `disappearance` of street children in Central and South America. These are not people who are, in the main, rebels or revolutionaries; they are just people who happen not to fit into the designs of the powerful.

The following cases are real. The people involved are real... and so is their pain.

Five Tibetan nuns committed suicide in Drapchi Prison, near Lhasa, after being beaten, electrocuted, and forced to stand in the sun for four days, because they refused to sing Chinese patriotic songs2.

According to Amnesty International, a 16-year-old Roma3 boy was beaten unconscious and burned while in police custody in Bulgaria. He suffered third degree burns to 15% of his body.

According to Amnesty International, prisoners, including women and children, continue to be beaten, raped , and tortured by Russian security forces in `filtration` camps in Chechnya.

The International Committee of Lawyers for Tibet reported that children in Tibet as young as six, detained and tortured by Chinese police, have been beaten, shocked with electric cattle prods, and hung from the ceiling by the knees.4

Human Rights Watch interviewed children in Turkey, who described being subjected to electric shocks, hosed with cold water, and beaten with truncheons. One 14-year-old boy reported being beaten on the soles of his feet with a pick axe handle.

The practice of torture has been with us since man`s earliest days. Many of the world`s religions speak of a hereafter promising endless torment for heretics; and many religions have openly espoused torture in the here-and-now, as a means of ensuring devotion. Conquerors of all persuasions routinely tortured subjugated peoples and prisoners of war. Those who wield power have a long history of using torture to keep it. Governments all over the world, all publicly deploring the use of torture to various degrees, still find it an expedient way of dealing with dissent.

But what drives an individual to torture another human being? From the Nazi tyranny in Europe, to the tragic conflict in the former Yugoslavia, those who have been arrested and tried for torture have often used the defence, `I was only following orders. Look at me... I`m not like that!`

What turns someone`s gentle son or loving husband into a remorseless torturer? The desire to dominate, subjugate, and impose one`s will on another person is a basic component of the personalities of all human beings and, wherever social and political climates nourish that streak of nastiness, there will always be people who cannot resist the call. Studies have shown that any of us has the capacity to perform acts of unspeakable cruelty on those who are helpless1. There is a real danger in calling torturers inhuman... because, sadly, they`re not.

Severe torture is used as a matter of course in almost two-thirds of the countries of the world; but torture, in some form, takes place virtually everywhere. It is the nature of societies that they must protect certain viewpoints, and limit the expression of dissent; and it is how societies respond to dissent that defines them.

The citizens of the world`s great democracies enjoy a level of freedom that is only dreamt of elsewhere; and yet, even in our `open societies`, dissent often takes the form of violent protest, and physical conflict with the representatives of state authority results. This is where one has to watch very closely, because the line between the legitimate right of societies to maintain order and the brutalization of individual protesters is a hazy one.

Pepper sprays and gels, tear gas, and electric shock devices are increasingly common means that police forces use to pacify protesters. These `Non Lethal Neutralizing Agents` were originally intended to provide policemen with an alternative to shooting people or beating them senseless. Their use has subsequently broadened to the point where they are now often used merely to disperse crowds. At what point does the use of such tools cease to be legitimate? At what point does interrogation become torture?

Bush is hated by muslims specifically as he is now bombing muslim countries - next online is Iran. I still dont see what the Saudi king - as an autocratic ruler of an oil rich country, and propped up by the CIA, can do anything about Gujarat or Gauntenamo.

Re: # 248

``What has the Saudi kings visit got to do with Bushs barbarism and the reasons why almost half the world hates him? ``

yeah and the same world loves the fountain head of religious intolerance ......

Parthaab:

Why don`t you give a direct answer??.. :-))

What do you think about the ``welcome given by the Indian government`` for the ``Saudi king``?? and the protests/lack of it by the people who are protesting Bush now..

This is relevant to the viewers to see where you stand on your ``principles``..

Thanks..

Re: # 247


What has the Saudi kings visit got to do with Bushs barbarism and the reasons why almost half the world hates him?

Do you know of any leader from recent memnory as hated as Bush? MS? Sonia? Musharrrraff? Blair? I wonder...

Parthaab:

And still no response on the ``Saudi king`s royal treatment`` in india??

Re: # 244

yeah, the lucknow riots are also accidents caused by rss and bjp conspiracy.

Re: # 243

`` have already said about the nuclear deal - its probably good for India. ``

then thats enough of reason for you to shut up.

a powerful india is better than a weak and fractious india (even if ``peacefull``).

what do you mean by peaceful anyway??

we too have many muslims locked-up under terrorist laws.

and yeah osama had nothing to do with islamic terrorism, pakis and indian muslims like him just because he is a ``saudi-dissident``.

just replace usa with china and guantanamo with police-run mental hospital, doesn`t your eyes see an analogy??? so why didn`t karat jump like a monkey when jiabao was in india???
or you didn`t argue about not letting him land in ``peaceful`` india???

http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=Gujaratviolence&slug=Godhra+train+fire+an+accident%3A+Banerjee&id=18883&callid=0&category=National

http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=Gujaratviolence&slug=Godhra+train+fire+an+accident%3A+Banerjee&id=18883&callid=0&category=National