Anatomy of a Karachi Bomb Blast

Pakistan would NEVER EVER NEVER EVER invite a US president who is on a trip to India. For all these years, Pakis have been a pain to the US, making them do a mandatory stop-over in Pakistan everytime the president visited India.

Now after a royal thappad televised live on world TV by a republican president and an admonishing sermon by a Democrat president on paki radio, the US can finally travel to India without the pain-in-the-ass pakis coaxing it to divert the AirForce One.

Great diplomatic victory for India and the US.

masadi ji

When you find time, could you please post your reply to Aha_Snark`s question in # 60? That will greatly facilitate a respectful discussion of people`s actual concerns. Thanks in advance.

#59 hamidm2 writes <<< ............ do you see the connection, or are you so blinded by faith induced hatred that you cannot accept simple facts ?............ for every idiot who is protesting in some parking lot in the midwest there are a hundred or so folks in china who are grateful to walmart for providing them with a decent living ........... >>>>

And millions who have lost their living as a result of walmart, what are they saying?

#60, I have no clue what you are getting at, do you want to know if you can claim stuff about religion x?, say whatever you want to say but be sure its not slogan but backed up with facts. Ibn Warraq and Manji and using the name and the caricatured image of Islam in order to create fear of everything Islamic, that is Islamophobia.

masadi,

walmarts and starbucks - they are at the opposite ends of the spectrum, arn`t they ? ....... and both of them probably saved thousands of lives as i was sipping my latte - coffee growers in columbia and east africa, and factory workers in china making cheap shoes and clothes for single mothers and their children in harlem ............ do you see the connection, or are you so blinded by faith induced hatred that you cannot accept simple facts ?............ for every idiot who is protesting in some parking lot in the midwest there are a hundred or so folks in china who are grateful to walmart for providing them with a decent living ........... what is your sorry jamaat doing, other than promising poor people seventy virgins in the hereafter ?

#56 Kulharee writes <<< Re: # 55

Asadi.... one word for you: MukhtaraN Mai >>>>

Yes, one highly propagandized case against the 1 million figure in America that is neatly tucked under the carpet.

#57 hamidm2 writes <<< ..... so what is so bad about this routine ?............ >>>

Pathetically narrow, detached from the real world and selfish existance. ``My man`` whatever you mean by that didn`t lay out any routines, the Quran leaves it upto the person to decide his own routine for development, just helps him or her along the way. While you were sipping your latte, 40,000 people died because of want in a world system designed by your walmarts and starbucks, so don`t give me your BS about how wonderful such decadence is.

masadi,

............ you say, ``And ``beautiful`` for you is the daily and weekly and yearly routine that those that command the institutional structure have laid out for you``............. what the heck are you talking about ?!!! ........ who are these people who command the institutional structure and what are they making us do that is so bad ?

....... every morning (when i am in town) i get up in the morning, have a bowl of oatmeal, (you should try it - it might ease the condition) and a glass of cranberry juice (that might help too), and then drive my daughter to school ......... in the interest of education and enlightenment, i make her listen to npr for the duration of the ten minute ride instead of subjecting her to koranic verses in a foreign language ...... then i go to starbucks to get my daily dose of a vente latte with three shots of espresso ..... sometimes i will dawdle to read the paper and look at the fine clientele and then drive in to work to while away the time till lunch - i must admit that deciding what to have for lunch can be rather stressful, specially if da man wants to come along ........... after a two hour lunch, a nap and doodling on a couple of powerpoint slides it is time to hit the bar ..... again, i must admit it is rather stressful if you are a little late and your favourite bar stool is taken - but that doesn`t happen too often ............. then it is home for a little tv and sex and then back to the oatmeal in the morning ..............

..... so what is so bad about this routine ?............ there is no getting up before sunrise to wash your feet in the sink at home and brushing your teeth with a twig and then again washing your feet in the sink at work a couple of times before heading to the mosque to stand in line with a bunch of men with bad breath and bad body odor obsequiously bowing before da big man in the sky ............ personally, i think the routine laid out by your man is a lot worse than the one laid out by my man ........... fo` shizzle ma nizzle !

#52 ballukhan writes <<< ..............we want to make our existence on this planet as beautiful as possible...............but you seek the opposite and want to create hell for us..... >>>

And ``beautiful`` for you is the daily and weekly and yearly routine that those that command the institutional structure have laid out for you. That is ``hell`` from which I seek to rescue humanity, not only does it rob people of their freedom and reason, it robs them of the best years of the only life they will ever have on earth. You want to justify and legitimize that hell, but I`ll never let you do it regardless of your rhetoric. You see to blind humanity, I seek to enlighten it to the reality that is constructed around them, a mirage that robs them of everything human.

Then this sob writes <<< and for that we would certainly do EVERYTHING to ensure that imbecile Islamist sympathesizers like you do not convert more gullible muslims into your path to self destruction...........................it is a battle between those who seek LIFE and those who seek DEATH...................................>>>

Converting people is the last thing on my mind and converting you or hamidm is extremely distasteful to me because I would like blind A.Hs like you to suffer in your blindness, you don`t deserve the beauty of reason, you don`t deserve to benefit from the truth. And damn fool, the Quran tells me that conversion and guidance is not the concern of Muslims or the prophet, that is Allah`s to hand or take away. I am only interested in reason and making the truth clear, and yes it is a fight alright between the tyrants those that are killing the earth and its environment and those that feel that the vast majority of humanity, living and dying in extreme want, deserve better than what these elite hand them. And in this fight the Mullah is with the Imperialist, with you and not with me or the people who place the concerns of humanity before profit making.

Hamidm writes about Ann Coulter <<< i know it sounds harsh, but who can argue with her the way she looks .........>>>> Her ugliness supplements her ignorance.

#54 dont construct straw men, my post #47 was based on what those damn fools, Ibn Warraq and Manji were stating about ``Islam-ism``, as people were doing with ``commun-ism``, they are islamophobic just like the red haters were phobic of anyone who dared utter that he or she was a communist. That is the reaction they seek today, one that mimics the image of Islam in the eyes of the crusader. Religion X, if you mean Islam by it does not place strictures on women. Your knowledge of that is based on stereotypes and not on any real study you have done of the Quran.

Society X, where X=US places extreme strictures on women, veiling everything about them except the way they look, and concentrates poverty among them-most poor in the US are women and children. It describes women through marriage alone, if the marriage breaks women suffer extreme loss of standard of living while men gain, around 4 to 5 million are beaten blue and black every year in the US several thousand of them die, around a million are raped every year yet this society blames the woman for the rape, rape has the lowest conviction rate of any crime in the US. Want more? Unlike you I do not speak from a point of ignorance.

Re: # 55
re: masadi:

Hi. My original question was ``Am I allowed to say that Religion X is counter to the same notions of humanity because it places strictures on women and discriminates between women and men? ``

The point is not whether or not Religion X is discriminatory. I`m asking whether speech claiming such is a permissible part of discourse.

Re: # 55

Asadi.... one word for you: MukhtaraN Mai.

Let me ask you something. Do your Jaws hurt after spewing so much bullshyt? In such little a time?

why we hate masadi and love maureen ...............

............... it is too cold to go outside and get the paper to see what maureen dowd has to say about our mad mullah masadi .............. most probably she has nothing to say about him, but i was just thinking of her and how she is so different from this raving lunatic who has lately infested the pristine corner of cyberspace occupied by chowk ............ well, maybe it is not so prisitne with all this talk of sugarane and people squatting on railroad tracks ................ but, in any case, here is a woman who, inspite of being a bleeding heart liberal, is still lovable and can eat crackers and spill coffee all over my keyboard if she wants to ........... why can`t mullah masadi be more like her ?........ we disagree with her tirades and rants against my main man, gw - but how can you be mad at her when she looks at you with those eyes and pouts so coquettishly ........ i will forgive her anything ........... and then there is ann coulter - my main woman !................ she is the one who offered the perfect solution to this rather pesky problem when she said:`` we should take our their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to christianity`` .............. i know it sounds harsh, but who can argue with her the way she looks .......... i, for one, would gladly let her lead me to her guillotine ...........

............ my advice to masadi : marry ann coulter and convert her to your cause ..... then we just might listen ........

`` A few decades from now when they are gone from this earth, nobody will remember their names, and what would they have achieved as far as contribution to humanity goes, absolutely nothing. ``

Listen you moron................we have no interest in seeking greatness through intellectual martydom...........neither do we seek to achieve immortality in other`s memories like you so dreadfully desire .......nor we do we want to errect theoratical dargahs like your ``Grand Unifying Theories`` with the desire that the faithfuls should bow down in some reverence whenever they recall our names.............unlike you we have absolutely no desire for the continuance of our existence in any one`s mind when we are gone................

We ONLY care about our immediate future..............we want to make our existence on this planet as beautiful as possible...............but you seek the opposite and want to create hell for us..........and for that we would certainly do EVERYTHING to ensure that imbecile Islamist sympathesizers like you do not convert more gullible muslims into your path to self destruction...........................it is a battle between those who seek LIFE and those who seek DEATH...................................

#50 writes <<< You do not fool me Maulana Saheb.......because I can clearly see the 6 foot long beard that you try to hide under your expensive western attire.............. >>>

As has been a long tradition in the line of damn fools, they say things they have no clue about based upon stereotype and prejudice. They are deaf to facts and all ears when it comes to any BS that feeds their prejudice. I haven`t ``ripped off`` anyone`s theories, when I use them I mention their names and the person whose work I use most died half a century back, so there is no ``ripping off`` going on when I expand upon his work to understand the world today. Last time I checked in the mirror, which was yesterday, I neither had a beard nor a moustache, maybe it grew over night and ballukhan received a revealtion about it`s particular length.

Take note that all his posts and hamidm`s posts are full of rhetorical, stereotypical BS and Ad Hominem arguments about me ``ripping off`` people`s work, but not one point that I raise is EVER answered by them. These damn fools are a ruined defeated lot, all they can do is come up with fiction tales about ``gabby`` and poke fun like adolescent idiots. A few decades from now when they are gone from this earth, nobody will remember their names, and what would they have achieved as far as contribution to humanity goes, absolutely nothing. It is very easy to go along with the tide, sing praises of the tyrants and the powerful, going in the opposite direction, the direction of truth, that is the hard path but these idiots lack the character and the intelligence to choose that path. I pity them even as I mock their ignorance.

``They have no clue about social structure, the interaction of political/economic and military institutions around the world and like damn fools, based upon bigotry and hate they lay the blame on Islam. Like the right wing Christian evangelical, these people are shock troops of the imperialists, mouth pieces of hate and propaganda.``

You REEK of the intellectual ELITISM you so profoundly lecture to others...........your two pence elitism has been already discussed threadbare in the Critical Theorist Tradition...........and you have just ripped off their social theories and the consequent critique of American Hegemony of Lifeworlds into some Islamist Kitch theory all aimed at what the traditionalist call as Dawah....................................You do not fool me Maulana Saheb.......because I can clearly see the 6 foot long beard that you try to hide under your expensive western attire............

My criticism is directed towards the bureaucratized social system as exists in the US that has enslaved not only its own citizens but through its globalized network is busy enslaving the vast majority of humankind. The social theorists you talk about whom I ``borrow`` from- and I have given credits on every occassion I have borrowed research from anyone, if you had spent time studying their work conclude much the same.

Your insinuation that I try to pass work by them as my ``orignal`` is a dispicable lie. Visit my site and read my articles, I cite people whenever I use their work. Bigots like Ibn Warraq and Manji, read their works as well and guage the calibre of their ``scholarship``. Those social theorists whose work I use wouldn`t spit on their work or their terms like ``Islamism``. They have no clue about social structure, the interaction of political/economic and military institutions around the world and like damn fools, based upon bigotry and hate they lay the blame on Islam. Like the right wing Christian evangelical, these people are shock troops of the imperialists, mouth pieces of hate and propaganda. Know that I will oppose them on every occassion, whenever they raise their stinking slogans, and I will oppose this global system of tyranny forced upon the world by the American elite.

``poster children for bigoted hate.``

Maulana Masadi........you spout hate and profanities against not merely the state apparatus of the US but also against the liberal institutions and its empowered secular people.....you hate anybody who can rise to their levels of affluence and technology without paying repespects to your crappy theology.....that is what fills you with hatred.........you hate them because they care a damn about what you think is the purest of all forms of TRUTH.............you hate them because by ignoring you they mock at your intellectual bigotry.....that is what pisses you off.......you cry for attention like a spoilt child ......you even steal from their social theorists and try to pass off as something ``Original`` by quoting from the books........you are actually a bigoted Islamist who is trying to find a NEW space to occupy in the already infested continuam of Islamist idiots who pass off as scholars..............infact you are the real BIGOT...................

#45, reproducing a letter by bigots writes

<<< We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of ``Islamophobia``, a wretched concept that confuses criticism of Islam as a religion and stigmatisation of those who believe in it. >>>

Islamophobia is exactly what their rendition of what they call ``Islam-ism`` is, a fear of everything even remotely associated with Islam. Would adding an ``ism`` to any other religion`s name and then equating it with all that is evil be acceptible? Of course not but now since its ``open season`` against Islam as once there was against communism, we see these fascists coming out with this BS, and look at the clowns that have signed it, Ibn Warraq and Irshad Manji, poster children for bigoted hate. The only thing ``wretched`` are the minds of these bigots.

Re: # 47
re: masadi

Hi. Am I allowed to say that the caste system is repugnant to notions of humanity ? Am I allowed to say that Judaism places strong strictures on women and deems them inferior to men, and is therefore repugnant to the same notions of humanity? Am I allowed to say that Religion X is counter to the same notions of humanity because it places strictures on women and discriminates between women and men?

Can I make Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail ? Can I make Monty Python and the Life of Brian? Can I make Jaane bhi do Yaaron and insert a blindingly funny depiction of a revered indian religious text ? Am I Christophobic if I do so ? Hinduphobic ?

hamid mia

As I said, WE need our brave men and women who can openly say FU to OBL and his gang of followers........and not get terrorized by the chavanni lumpens mobilized by the mullahs.................the popular street `rage` against Bush was a mobilization by the mullahs .

Atleast there are atleast some brave men and women who can thumb these Islamists and their ideological supporters who have been pursuing their agendas by infilterating the local masjids and inciting communal violence and hatred worldwide................

Full text: Writers` statement on cartoons
A group of 12 writers have put their names to a statement in French weekly newspaper Charlie Hebdo warning against Islamic ``totalitarianism``. Here is the text in full:


After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new global totalitarian threat: Islamism.

We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.

Recent events, prompted by the publication of drawings of Muhammad in European newspapers, have revealed the necessity of the struggle for these universal values.

This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the ideological field.

It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism between West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarian ideologies, Islamism is nurtured by fear and frustration.

Preachers of hatred play on these feelings to build the forces with which they can impose a world where liberty is crushed and inequality reigns.

But we say this, loud and clear: nothing, not even despair, justifies choosing darkness, totalitarianism and hatred.

Islamism is a reactionary ideology that kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present.

Its victory can only lead to a world of injustice and domination: men over women, fundamentalists over others.

On the contrary, we must ensure access to universal rights for the oppressed or those discriminated against.

We reject the ``cultural relativism`` which implies an acceptance that men and women of Muslim culture are deprived of the right to equality, freedom and secularism in the name of the respect for certain cultures and traditions.

We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of ``Islamophobia``, a wretched concept that confuses criticism of Islam as a religion and stigmatisation of those who believe in it.

We defend the universality of the freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit can exist in every continent, towards each and every maltreatment and dogma.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits in every country that our century may be one of light and not dark.


Signed by:

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Chahla Chafiq

Caroline Fourest

Bernard-Henri Levy

Irshad Manji

Mehdi Mozaffari

Maryam Namazie

Taslima Nasreen

Salman Rushdie

Antoine Sfeir

Philippe Val

Ibn Warraq

#44 writes <<< Are you fighting over nothing ?>>>

No, Parenti`s article mentioned Libya in a particular context, that of unjustified US alarmism, expanding that into absurd directions like you are doing does not render ``my fight``- whatever you mean by that as a ``fight over nothing``. If nothing else, atleast learn how to read and comprehend articles written in simple English instead of trying to look for excuses on how to reject something using every excuse in the book.

masadi #29

Let us assume for a comment US campaign against Qadafi has to do with oil.
Better question to ask - What has Qadafi done with $100-200 billions in oil revenues ?

He does not own hotels or palaces in Geneva.

He has a third rate army. He could not conquer a fourth world country like Chad.

Libyan society has improved since 1969. But it is still tribal and illiterate.

Are you fighting over nothing ?

#40 by hamidm2 on March 4, 2006 9:55am PT

had posted the cartoons on that site


You mean these cartoons?

Re: # 42

... thanks for the public service - you are a dependable chap ......

hamidm2
why dont u write some FP articles? You have a large fan base here. Are you scared of the wife?

#38 by hamidm2 on March 4, 2006 8:57am PT

Pakistan Blocking Bloggers Because of Bush Visit?

Over the last few days, Pakistani bloggers have been reporting through the Global Voices email list that the Pakistani government is now blocking all access to Blogger.com. This particular blogging tool is one of the most popular in Pakistan - all blogs ending with the domain name blogspot.com are managed using Blogger.com - resulting in large numbers of bloggers no longer being able to update their blogs.

Some bloggers are beginning to speculate that the virtual blockade of Blogger.com is directly related to President Bush`s visit to Pakistan this week. With so many Pakistani bloggers critical of Bush, perhaps the government decided to place a gag order on them so they could roll out the red carpet without any ``embarrassing`` critiques from the local blogosphere.

Others wonder if the timing of the move is just a coincidence, and simply the first signs of a larger censorship campaign by the government.

``Truth is - it may have very little to do with Bush`s visit,`` writes Indian blogger Neha Viswanathan on the Global Voices e-list. ``The anti-Bush protest has hardly found a voice online. I really do think this might be the first of other blocks. This might be on a very experimental basis to see how far they go. The Pakistani govt has hardly had any dialogue with bloggers at all. ``

``The other theory is of course the one on Danish cartoons- which is likely,`` she continues. ``But there is so much content on that outside of the blogosphere (the limited one at Blogpsot) that it doesnt` seem to fit together. I wouldn`t be surprised if the govt of Pakistan comes up with an IT censorship policy.``

Pakistani bloggers are still pondering the motivation behind the censorship campaign. ``I have communicated with several bloggers and friends back in Pak[istan],`` writes UAE-based Pakistani blogger Omer Alvie. ``So far there`s no resolution to this problem. Bush`s visit in Pakistan is resulting in protests, strike (in Lahore city) and curfew areas in Islamabad. The feeling among bloggers is this is all rather suspect. Neha, might be right this might be on experimental basis. I feel this a a precursor to what the government can do in the future.``

Given all the rhetoric Bush has been spouting about free and open democracies in the Islamic world, I wonder if Mr. Bush would take a moment with Pakistan`s President Musharraf this weekend and remind him of the connection between democracy and respecting free speech. If he doesn`t, I`m sure Pakistan`s blogging community will find a way around the blockade and make the point themselves. -andy

Re: # 39

arjun mian,

........ i just checked and the chowk is well and alive in pakistan ...... they tell me that blogger.com was blocked because you (or rsridhar) had posted the cartoons on that site .......... in any case, the freedom of speech seems to be okay for now in pakiland(unless of course someone makes fun of the prophet`s camel) ........ just saw a cartoon of bush adressing the pakistani people in urdu on geotv ....... he used dick cheney as an example of how america takes care of its friends and also said that he had talked to mush about his uniform and mush had, in turn, complimented him on his suit - it was rather funny .........

......... actually freedom of speech is not an issue in pakistan, it is freedom of political action ........ the military thinks that barking dogs don`t catch cars ......... but what if the car runs out of gas ?

............ has chowk been blocked in pakistan ?

masadi mian,

........ as my kids would say, ``take a chill pill`` ........ first you accuse my mother (god bless her soul) of being a female cannine and then you go on to (almost) accuse me of sleeping with her ........ so, in fact, you are accusing me of beastiality and incest - a double whammy which it don`t think i deserve ............ and why?........ all because i mentioned you in the same sentence as your pirs and murshids mullah omar (ra) and hazrat osama (ra) ........ i thought you would be flattered ........... look, in your rabid foaming-at-the-mouth rants aginst america - the great satan, terrorist and murderer of innocent children - you do sound like these horrible creatures so it is easy to conclude that you belong to their school of thought .............. but we could be wrong

......... i don`t know about the other good folks on chowk, but i am willing to give you the benefit of doubt and will take back my words if you renounce these two rascals and their spiritual advisors like maulana fazloo, qazi hussain and mullah sami-ul-haq ............ all you have to do is ascribe to them the same attributes that you have ascribed to me (and my poor mother) and i will believe you ........

............. now be honest because al-lah (and gabby) are watching !

p.s. .... oh what the heck, i am in a rather happy mood this morning, so i will go ahead and apologize any way ............. so here it goes: ``maulana masadi, i am sorry for associating your name with criminals like mullah omar (ra) and hazrat osama (ra)`` ........ i hope that satisfies you ............. no skin off my back ............ as the danish say, ``words and pastries are cheap``

Re: # 36

hamidm2 bhai bada maza aaya. Aur is masadi ki gandi zabaan ko karo ignore.

#14, hamidm2 the sob writes <<< .........now you have people like masadi and mullah omar and osama who are running away with the message and blowing up people because they think that’s what you want ........... >>>

This is a baseless accusition against me and amounts to libel. I suggest the editors remove my name from this comment by a clueless sob who cannot deal with my arguments so he thrown in baseless accusitions. Now if I were to respond to hamidm2`s posts by writing things like, `` hamidm2 sleeps with his mama, made her pregnant and sired two children with her?`` How would that sound? Now this sob is accusing me of something that I would never ever do and he is associating my name with that of criminals.

Pardon the digression:

Hamidm, please write to me at farzanaveeAtchowkDotcom and, if you think urstruly is guarding me there, then editors@chowk.com would do. Write or face the consequences!

Hamidm, may I forward you post# 14 to Mowlan Sami-ul-haq, Fazulr Rehman & that wide eyed Qazi Ahmed of Jamaat-e-Islami, I heard that they have great sense of humor.

Re: # 30

.... sure, go ahead - i think you can mail it to guantanamo where they should be headed soon ...... please include a copy for maulana masadi ........

Re: # 31

Re:14

hamidmia........that was Chowk Classic......it is historic and it seriously competes with Plato`s dialogues...................only if imbeciles like Masadi had your sense of humour??

Pardon this extra space I am taking, those not interested can pass over it

The Terrorism Hype
By Michael Parenti


The U.S. national security state and its faithful lackeys in the news media have pretty much the same double standard re-garding the question of ``terrorism.`` They designate as ``terrorist`` those individual acts committed by dissident political or nationalist groups that operate against any of the major industrial powers. But they never use the term to describe the acts of massive repression and destruction perpetrated against whole populations by U.S. forces or by the armies of CIA-supported client states, such as in the aerial assaults on working class neighborhoods in Panama City, or the bombing of civilian populations in Baghdad, or the burning of 660 villages in Guatemala, or the roundup and mass executions of democratic supporters in Chile, Indonesia, Afghanistan, South Yemen, and dozens of other countries.

State-supported, right-wing terrorism, as practiced by U.S. client states, is never defined as terrorism, though it is conducted on a far greater scale than the isolated bombings carried out by any Basque, Arab, or Irish Republican Army group. Also left uncounted is the massive terrorism perpetrated by U.S. supported ``guerrilla`` mercenaries, as in Angola, Mozambique, Nicaragua (against Sandinista rule) and several other countries, in which the countryside was devastated and massive numbers of people slaughtered by these mercenary forces.


The Larger Terrorism
As critics of U.S. interventionism have pointed out, what is reported as ``terrorism`` in the press is ``retail terrorism.`` What goes unnoted is ``wholesale terrorism,`` the massive U.S.-backed, state-supported kind. By any measure other than the peculiar one used by Washington policymakers and propagandists, the U.S. national security state is the greatest purveyor of terrorism in the world today and has been so for some time.

Estimating only the casualties inflicted by U.S. armed forces or U.S.-backed surrogate forces around the world, the death toll is estimated as follows: 3,000,000 in Vietnam, 1,000,000 in Cambodia, 1,000,000 in Mozambique, 500,000 to 1,000,000 in Indonesia, 600,000 in Angola, 300,000 in Laos, 250,000 in East Timor, 200,000 in Iraq, 200,000 in Afghanistan, 150,000 in Guatemala, 100,000 in Nicaragua, 90,000 in El Salvador, and tens of thousands in Chile, Argentina, Zaire, Iran (under the Shah), Colombia, Bolivia, Brazil, Panama, Somalia, South Yemen, Western Sahara, and dozens of other countries.*

Against the blowing up of a building or an airliner, how do we measure this U.S.-sponsored terrorism? To be sure, we must not dismiss or make light of individual acts of terror. Yet we might wonder why they are just about the only ones that receive condemnation from official circles. The wholesale terrorism of aerial massacres, death squads, mass arrests, mass executions, torture and intimidation, is a function of a rational and deliberate counterinsurgency policy orchestrated by the U.S. national security state. But it is not treated as news. Indeed, its very existence goes unrecognized by mainstream policymakers and media.

Even on those rare occasions when atrocities are reported, the corporate-owned media never make the link between such horrific events and the policies of intervention and repression directed from Washington. The question is never asked: ``Why do successive U.S. governments support this kind of terrorism? What interests are bolstered and what interests retarded when a whole village of men, women and children are slaughtered by a military that is supplied and financed by the U.S. government, trained and equipped at U.S. military bases, and directed by U.S. military ``advisors`` in the field?

Such mass atrocities are not even defined as terrorism, the term being reserved for the lone gunman or small circle of conspirators who plant a bomb. Even these latter isolated acts are subjected to a highly slanted mode of reportage. Consider the time the White House charged Libya with orchestrating the destruction of the Pan Am 103 in 1988 over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing 270 people. Without benefit of supporting evidence, U.S. officials and news organizations treated this accusation as true-thereby demonstrating that they are not unalterably opposed to conspiracy theories about assassinations. They may beat up on Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone for seeing an assassination plot in the killing of President John Kennedy, but they themselves eagerly embrace any conspiracy theory or fantasy that emanates from the White House regarding nation-states and leaders who have been designated persona non grata.

Regarding the Pan Am bombing, there were strong signs pointing to terrorist groups in Syria and Iran. No matter, the country Washington wanted to target was Libya. Two Libyan ``intelligence agents`` were named in the U.S. media as having committed the act of terrorism. In fact, all we really knew about them was that they were Libyan airline employees, yet they were repeatedly identified as ``secret agents.`` The New York Times ran an editorial demanding that they be brought to justice and that the Libyan government, particularly its leader Muammar el-Qaddafi, be held accountable. The Libyans understandably refused to hand over the two men because no evidence was ever presented linking any Libyan to the Pan Am bombing.



Everybody, Here Come the Assassins
Libya has been targeted on other occasions. In 1981, U.S. planes attacked that country and shot down two Libyan training jets. In 1985, U.S. planes bombed two cities, killing a number of people including Qaddafi`s young daughter. (They were aiming for Qaddafi.)

Another incident of terrorism hype directed against Libya and now forgotten by most people-though it had the U.S. press all hot and bothered for the better part of two months-occurred in late 1981 when the U.S. government announced that a Libyan team of assassins, assisted by ``East German terror experts,`` under orders from Colonel Qaddafi, had entered the United States. Supposedly armed with surface-to-air missiles, they were intending to kill President Reagan and ten or so top officials, including the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense.

The media`s response to this wacko story was to treat it as solid fact. On ABC-TV evening news (November 26, 1981) Frank Reynolds stated that it was ``known`` that Libyan agents were ``in this country for the purpose of assassinating the highest officials in the U.S. government.`` CBS anchor Dan Rather announced on December 4, ``A squad of terrorists infiltrated the United States on a mission to kill the President and his top aides. It sounds like the stuff of a suspense novel . . . but American security officials tonight are taking the word of an informant seriously.``

That same evening, NBC began its report by asking, ``Is it true?`` and then promptly treated it as if it were. An NBC correspondent asked President Reagan if he was ``worried about the assassination plot.`` ``Yes, of course,`` said Reagan. The camera cut to Secret Service men leaping out of cars and racing around the president`s limousine-an image which itself suggested that the president was under imminent attack.

ABC`s ``Nightline`` (December 4, 1981) presented a special on the ``Libyan Assassination Plot,`` featuring Ray Cline, a former deputy director of the CIA, who claimed that Libyan terrorist groups were organized ``basically and initially by the Soviet Union,`` and that our ``open society`` made our officials ``sitting ducks`` because ``we have been busy handcuffing the CIA and FBI for a number of years, and only President Reagan is trying to turn them loose a bit to deal with these threats.``

For the sake of balance and diversity of opinion, the right-wing Cline was joined by right-wing journalist Arnaud de Borchgrave, introduced as a ``terrorism expert.`` He, too, assured viewers that the Libyans were working for the Soviet Union and that Qaddafi, whom de Borchgrave claimed to have interviewed ``five times in my life,`` was a ``pathological liar.``

For added political diversity, the panel included the right-winger Marvin Zonis, a Likud cheerleader described as a ``Mideast expert,`` who said that ``Colonel Qaddafi had a conversation with another leader of a Middle Eastern country in which he discussed very coolly and in a rational way how he intended to go about assassinating President Reagan.`` No one questioned Zonis about his source nor asked how it was possible that a leader of one nation would openly discuss his plans to assassinate the U.S. president with the leader of another nation who might impart this information to others. No one appeared on the show to inject a cautionary note or question the remarkable statements made by these three cold warriors.

The networks did their share to keep the White House`s conspiracy fantasy alive, running no less than twenty-four evening news reports about the hit teams in one month. Viewers were told there were three, five, ten, twelve, or thirteen hit men, depending on what network and what evening you watched. The assassins had entered the U.S. from Canada (ABC, CBS), from Mexico (CBS), and not from Mexico (ABC). The hit squads-there were now allegedly two of them-were composed of three Libyans (ABC, NBC), three Iranians (CBS, NBC), two Iranians (ABC), and three Syrians (NBC). All three networks agreed that there was one Palestinian, one Lebanese, and one East German. Never before had a team of assassins received such advanced billing. It should have been enough to deter all but the wildest publicity hounds among them.

The national media were filled with accounts of FBI agents fanning out across the country to hunt the assassins and heavily armed security teams roosting on the White House roof. In addition, there was film footage of Libyan soldiers firing ``Soviet missile launchers`` to shoot down helicopters ``such as the one the president used.`` Police composite sketches of six would-be assassins, looking like sinister comic-book Third-World characters, were carried by newspapers across the country, including the Washington Post and the New York Times and flashed repeatedly across the TV screen.

The sketches were allegedly composed from descriptions provided by an unidentified informant, who somehow was privy to the whole plot and endowed with an exceptional memory for facial detail. They were distributed to the media by columnist Jack Anderson, who later regretted doing it and wrote that he had been set up by an unnamed ``intelligence agency.``

Needless to say, the nonexistent hit team never materialized. It remained for TV Guide (June 12, 1986) to admit, in a cover story entitled ``Why American TV is So Vulnerable to Foreign Propaganda,`` that the ``assassination plot`` consisted of nothing but wild conjectures. TV Guide then disinformed its millions of readers by asserting that the whole incident was probably evidence of a KGB campaign to use alarmist rumors ``to destabilize public opinion in the West.`` Or perhaps the story was planted by Qaddafi himself, who ``is no madman`` but ``a shrewd Bedouin`` ``who is sitting back and laughing over this.`` Thus TV Guide accused Qaddafi of deliberately planting stories that implicated him in assassination plots against the president of the United States, presumably so that he might give U.S. leaders an excuse to deliver a murderous military retaliation upon him and his country.

In our ``open society,`` continued TV Guide, where ``anything can get reported,`` the press should be more wary of the false stories floated by ``Soviet intelligence sources.`` This assertion was as outlandish as the original story itself. It ignored the fact that the assassination-team fairy tale emanated from the White House rather than from any foreign source. Indeed the press had been once again easily duped-by Washington, not Moscow.

The White House learned some things after it floated the ``assassination plot`` story of 1981. In regard to the Pan Am bombing, it came up with the names of two specific Libyan ``agents,`` Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi and Lamen Khalifa Fhimah, so that no embarrassment need be suffered when imaginary assassins fail to materialize. The White House also learned that it can inflict more durable pain and punishment with economic sanctions than with a few air strikes. So Libya has been repeatedly hit with sanctions.

Qaddafi`s Real Sins
Still we might ask what motivates all this hostility against Libya? Why has a country of three million inhabitants with a ragtag army of 55,000 been singled out by U.S. leaders and media as a major threat to U.S. national security? And why is Libya still targeted today with oil and trade embargoes? Is it because U.S. Policy is just stupid or mean? More likely, the attacks have been motivated by Washington`s concern that Libya is one of those renegade countries that refuses client-state status, not unlike Nicaragua (under the Sandinistas), Islamic Iran, nationalist Iraq, and communist Cuba and North Korea.

There are countries that do not want to be an integrated part of the global free market system. They do not want to open their land, labor, markets, and natural resources to U.S. investors, saying in effect, ``Come on in, it`s all yours. There are no occupational safety laws, no corporate taxes, no environmental standards, no limit to what you can carve out of our land at outrageously low prices, no minimum wage, no real labor unions. And if the workers or peasants get out of line, our police and military, who are trained and equipped by your military, will take care of them, for there are no constitutional protections either. You give us ruling oligarchs a generous cut and the rest is all yours. You make this society safe for the likes of us, and we will open it completely to you.`` The nations that refuse this contract with America run the risk of being targeted as ``terrorist states.``

After Qaddafi took power in the 1969 colonel`s rebellion, he nationalized Libya`s oil industry and set about transforming a country that resembled Saudi Arabia into a more egalitarian society, using a larger portion of its capital and labor for public needs rather than corporate greed, building health clinics, schools, and public housing, and implementing massive reforestation programs.

Independent, reform-minded Third World leaders like Qaddafi have a chancy future in the New World Order. They do not have the right politics. They do not represent the right class interests. For that reason we, the American people, ought to get to know more about what they are doing and find out how we too can produce leaders who do not worship at the altar of global free-market corporate capitalism, ``dangerous`` leaders who put public need before private greed.

Meanwhile we are not likely to see a swift end to the terrorism hype. Indeed, in 1996, President Clinton sponsored the ``Effective Death Penalty and Public Safety Act.`` Among other things, the bill authorized the president to unilaterally designate as ``terrorist`` any group anywhere in the world-without offering a shred of evidence. Any challenge to the president`s declaration will be a criminal offense. Any donation of money or aid or other kind of support to the ``terrorist group`` will be punishable with ten years in prison and a $50,000 fine. The bill would also allow the FBI to infiltrate, wiretap, and investigate groups and individuals with no previous proof of criminal activity.

With the overthrow of most communist states, U.S. leaders face a shortage of adversaries needed to justify U.S. global interventionism. ``Fighting terrorism`` now takes the place of ``fighting communism`` as the rationale for a huge military state and a repressive national security apparatus at home and abroad, the real function of which is to keep the world safe for those who own it. The real danger we face is not from terrorism but from what is being done in the pretense of fighting it.

*For details and documentation on the U.S.-imposed, post-war holocaust in the Third World, see Michael Parenti, The Sword and the Dollar (New York: St. Martin`s Press, 1989); Edward Herman, The Real Terror Network (Boston: South End Press, 1982); William Blum, Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press, 1995).

-This article is excerpted from Michael Parenti`s Dirty Truths, a collection of his writings recently published by City Lights Books.

re: Swarrier # 24

Even by hamidm`s stratospheric standards, #14 was a classic. And comparing classics is always a dicey affair :)

Re: # 26
True , true but it`s a matter of personal taste and I liked the musical theme Now if this had Gabby, Moroni and his band of Angels delicately harmonising in the background....... Who knows... ``Mecca on my mind``.........``Utah on my mind...`` .... endless possibilities.

#14 hamidm:
Absolutely genius!!!! Your first post I read was on ``Who wants to marry a millionaire dog board``. It was your earlier Avatar (hamidm). I declare and accept you as a new Hindu god (number 100, 000,000,01.) .......

#hamidm2

I would like your permission to post your post on another group. Sheer genius!!

#19 Kulharee writes <<< Don’t you? I think you waste too much time looking elsewhere because the reasons might be right under your nose. Why do you think that ills inflicted on the Muslim world are not a result of their own doings? >>>>

Moronically jumping from thread to thread and repeating your nonsense does not make your argument true. You know why it is not because Muslims aren`t a monolith, and even when the factors of the Mullah that you refer to are present, even then when social circumstance is different it does not produce the same result.

I already told you this on the other thread. The connection between the condition of African Americans in the US was repeated in the same context and to show your hypocrisy. Both points were well made. Now go ahead repeat the same BS one more time.

Hi,
#20 ...
Man! You should start writing satire! I almost died laughing as i read on ..that al-lah-gab thing!

If this site can tolerate this, there is hope for paki land yet!
Asadi and ed...catch up on your reading please..
people are having doubts already!
Jayen

#17, hamidm2, you`re an sob and a damn fool and thank you for proving that to all of us here.

Re: # 16

masadi,

..... as al-lah says in post #14, he wants you to renounce violence, period ........ stop making excuses and angling for virgins .............

#15 Kulharee writes << Let me tell you what is really going on >>

You don`t have a clue hypocrite. Let us hear you condemn the US killings in Iraq. Let us hear you condemn the fact that African American men in several regions in the US, living in the wealthiest country in the world, have a lower life expectency than males in Bangladesh. Let us hear you condemn that before you talk about literacy rates in poor countries. If there is anyone screwing the world it is first and foremost the US elite, all others are mere pawns that fall in their specialized slot once the clockwork is sent into motion.

Re: # 16

Asadi Sahib, I really don’t know what the connection of Black brothers is to the bomb that went off in Karachi which killed three innocent Pakistanis. You apply 6 degrees of separation to everything. Don’t you? I think you waste too much time looking elsewhere because the reasons might be right under your nose. Why do you think that ills inflicted on the Muslim world are not a result of their own doings? Why is it always Zionists’ fault?

Re: # 19

kulharee,

``Why is it always Zionists’ fault? `` ...... because it says so in the ``protocols of zion`` - the only other book that asadi has read in addition to the koran ....

Very in-depth (there’s another term to describe it as well) analysis. Sure, it is all India’s and Jews fault. We can never produce terrorists. Sure, a country where dictatorship is a way of political life is a result of the society in which such morons thrive in.

Let me tell you what is really going on. It’s a joke that when rallies and protests are held over stupid cartoons while there is no protests over real issues (like the yearly Mecca stampede). Why are there no protest over lack of Jobs, lack of basic enmities? Lack of decent affordable healthcare? Lack of literacy rates? Lack of gender equality? Lack of democracy? Treatment of religious minorities? Because, Mullah is well fed and sends his sons to the West for education and healthcare and other peoples’ kids to fight his holy war. That’s why. Mullha and the Dictators are together in screwing the country. Enjoy it while it lasts.

how to stop the bombing (and other bad things) ............... a conversation between al-lah and gabby

(as usual, al-lah and his favorite angel gabby are sitting are sitting on cushions of fluffy clouds eating peyote pakoras and sipping date wine made from the famous dates of mecca that gabby collects on his now infrequent trips to the desert …… actually he hasn’t been down there for the past fifteen hundred years – not since he went down to talk to mo of the quraish )

gabby (preening his wings with his beak) : al-lah mian why do you look so morose ?............ what’s with the long face? ............. are you okay – i hope these pakoras are not making you sick; you look kind of peaked; maybe it is the wine – it is almost fifteen hundred years old and I think it is time to brew a fresh batch ........... can I go to mecca .......please, oh, please ...........

al-lah (sighing): gabby, you are such a fool – all you think about is wine and pakoras ........ there are so many bigger things to worry about in all these parallel universes that even i can’t keep track of them ............ by the way which universe is earth on ?

gabby : jesus christ ! you are getting old ! ....... it is on u371a ......... why, what is the matter ?

al-lah: hey ! don’t take my son’s name in vain unless you want a good whipping ...........

gabby (sheepishly): sorry ....... i just worry about you … is there anything i can do ?

al-lah: i need to find out who set off that bomb in karachi – these suicide bombers are giving me a bad name ........... did we order these people to go out and kill and maim in my name ?

gabby (fluttering his wings in exasperation): ............ actually we did !....... look al-lah mian, no offense, but we have had this conversation many times before ............. let me remind you that i told you that we should have reigned in muhammad when he went on the war path against the folks in mecca and khyber and anyone else who didn’t listen to your message .......... i know, i know.......... it was all for a good cause and the bleeding bedouins needed to be dissuaded from burying their daughters and marrying their mothers, but we set a bad precedent ................ i told you to send down a verse or two on brotherly (and sisterly) love and understanding instead of urging mo to go on a holy war path against your enemies ........... bad move – all this would never have happened if you had told his followers that killing was bad, period ..............

al-lah : bad move ? ! .......... my dear gabby, i think you forget that a couple of hundred years earlier i had sent down my own son with a message of love and peace – telling people to turn the other cheek and love their fellow man like a brother …… and do you know what happened ?

gabby: they got the message – at least in san francisco !

al-lah: ha, ha! ......... very funny !....... no they did not … as a matter of fact the imbeciles nailed my kid to a crucifix and then went out to kill and maim for the next thousand years …............remember the inquisition ?...... I don’t remember telling my son to go out and burn people who did not believe in him as their savior ........... actually i don’t even remember telling him that he was the savior - the poor kid could barley take care of himself with the jews clamoring for his blood and that spineless man pontius refusing to stand up to these horrible people ............

gabby: okay, okay........... i get your point ........... but what are we going to do about these mad mullahs going on a rampage, blowing up cars and killing people just because they think you told them it is okay to do so ..........

al-lah (throwing up his arms) : i never said any such thing ......... the verses in the koran were time and instance specific – everyone know that ..........

gabby: no they don’t – only tahmed knows it and nobody listens to him ............

al-lah: who the heck is tahmed – i thought we were not sending down any more prophets .............. have you been talking to people without my permission ?

gabby (looking a little guilty) : you know, i would never do that ........... i know better; i don’t want to end up like cousin iblees – it is hot down there and they only serve vegetarian food ............... tahmed is just one of many sensible people that mo’s followers don’t listen too because you made such a mess out of the book – and may i remind you again that i told you this would happen .........now you have people like masadi and mullah omar and osama who are running away with the message and blowing up people because they think that’s what you want ...........

al-lah (looking tired): so what do we do now ?............. and how come they haven’t caught that rascal osama yet – i thought the americans can see a pimple on a gnat’s behind from fifty miles up in space ...........

gabby: if you want him caught, why don’t you?........... you can do anything you want ...... i don’t have to remind you that you are the big kahuna and omnieverything ..............

al-lah (smiling): don’t be silly – you know we decided a long time ago not to interfere with free will and freedom of choice ............. and besides, i don’t have the time to mess around with one little planet circling one little star among billions and billions of stars in one little galaxy among billions and billions of galaxies .......

gabby (happily munching on a pakora): you sound like carl sagan ..........

al-lah (quizzical) : who the heck is carl sagan? ........ was he a prophet ?........ hey, this peyote is pretty darn good – i think you should go down to mexico and get some more before the dea goes out and sprays the desert and kills this wonderful stuff that I have created – you know, i am tired of people killing what took me billions and billions of years to create .............

gabby (sighing): are we back to the bombing in karachi ......... if you want, we can sent down another prophet to tell these imbeciles to stop it ..........

al-lah: no, no ........ we can’t do that .......... remember the last time we tried to do it with joseph smith and mirza ghulam ahmed ?

gabby : well, the mormons turned out okay even though you sent that slacker moroni instead of me ............

al-lah (looking at gabby with a twinkle in his eye): you were sick, remember? ....... but you are right, the mormons did turn out okay even though they killed poor joe and his brother.........

gabby: aw shucks! ....don’t feel guilty – they are doing fine ........ we gave them a hundred and forty virgins each instead of the usual seventy virgin quota for martyrs ........... al-lah mian, that reminds me, we are running out of virgins .............

al-lah (frowning as if in deep thought): you know, my dear gabby, maybe we should repeal the virgin law …… i think that will cut down on the killing and mayhem ...........

gabby (looking a little under the influence): but how do we do that without sending down another prophet now that you have banned theophanies of all type ...........

al-lah: think, gabby, think ......... all you do is sit around, drink wine and complain ........... we must do something to stop these people from killing each other ......... poor muhammad is feeling really bad about this – he feels that he is responsible, even though i keep on telling him that it is not really his fault – osman is the real culprit for not hiring the right scribes ............ even emma did a better job for joe when that rascal harris ran off with the script ...............

gabby (suddenly brightening up): i know what we can do !........ we can put out a public service announcement on al-jazeerah, geo, ary, indus and al-arabia telling the people that god wants them to stop blowing up things ...........

al-lah (affectionately throwing is arms around gabby): gabby, you are brilliant !............ let’s do it !

Re: # 14

hamidm2: That was too good. I am still laughing. Thanks.

Re: # 14: hamidm2, this deserves special recognition or something...even a cartoon in Denmark. funny

Re: # 14
hamidm

Classy but ``Georgia on my mind was better``. I think that was you wasn`t it . Corn fed heifers filling blue jeans ... (what a thought).

yup...comrade masadi has it right...there was no bombing..there are no jihadis in pakiland...if you saw pictures of the bombings, that`s because you were influenced by the mind control rays coming out of langley(or is it fort meade?)

Tin foil should solve the problem...

Mr. ed as you have witnessed these dogs are barking their usual tune. Not only do they not have intelligence enough to see what is really going on, they are not even original in their barking, their antennas are picking up official washington signals that they are repeating almost verbatim, merely because it fits in with their narrow prejudiced world view. A truly pathetic way to spend ones life, don`t you think?

#6 by ed on March 3, 2006 5:52am PT


That would be a very naive stance to take. Far more complex dynamics are at work behind such occurances.


Complex dynamics don`t change reality..Which one of the following isn`t true:
1. The jihadis were created, financed, trained and nurtured by the Pakistani army to fight the Indians in Kashmir and claim AFghanistan as part of their strategic depth wet dreams.
2. The Pakistani junta supported the jihadis.Most pakis here would have told you that openly if 9/11 hadn`t sent their love for jihad back into the closet..

None of the groups you listed were created by the Indian state or supported by the Indian public.

Do you want me to post images of a Kashmir jihad collection box in Lahore in Jan?

Complex realities is just a cop-out..The poem still holds true...you created the jihadi frankenstein, abdulsteins if you will...now abdulsteins are kiling you...

It is shameful to see the contribution of freedom fighters who have made the ultimate sacrifice reduced to terrorism. This is a despicable example of following western ideas of law and order, and will lead to the destruction of islam.

When a shaheed makes the ultimate sacrifice, as recently happened in Karachi, we must all think about the ``root cause``. What could the frustration be that led this noble muslim to this great act? No one gives up their life without a cause; ignoring this, like the israelis do, is shameful and against islam.

The best bet here is to call in NATO and handover Karachi to them. In this way, a neutral third-party can gently determine the root cause. Maybe there is need for a referendum there? Who knows?

But please appreciate the great contribution the martyr has made. Every time you put money in a charity box, you are supporting these noble acts.

this is the sad thing....for all that os good in Karachi and pakistan, when you get a the following sequence of headlines in a newspaper and this is what I saw just now on the times world news page

Headline 1: US and India set seal on historic nuclear deal

Headline 2: Suicide car bomber kills a US diplomat in Karachi


Now just imagine you are a business leader (a ceo of a company) thinking of investment and growth. The previous evening think `` yep. Pakistan is a nice cheap place for my new investment will check t out in the morning``. And then either over breakfast or while beingdriven to work, you open the newspaper and see these headlines......viola there goes that investment.

Pity really!

But as The Dawn suggests today ``the concept of strategic depth has been turned on its head with the Taliban occupying Miramshah and taking over the govt building``. The sting is still there. It is time to realise the troubles ahead and the problems currently!

An Urdu verse comes to mind on this occasion:


An English verse comes to mind..

Roses are red
Violets are blue
The jihadis you created
Are now killing you....

Re: # 5
That would be a very naive stance to take. Far more complex dynamics are at work behind such occurances. The responsibility for the presence of undesirable elements in a society (whether jehadi or non-jehadi) does not necessarily rest with the society itself.

Re: # 6
[...The responsibility for the presence of undesirable elements in a society (whether jehadi or non-jehadi) does not necessarily rest with the society itself...]

of course not.... Blame it on america, india, jews, hindus, charlie and his aunt....

Re: # 7
Dear Mohar11,
Societies are often influenced in practical terms by the larger events / storms that surf the globe.

I wrote that:
``The responsibility for the presence of undesirable elements in a society (whether jehadi or non-jehadi) does not NECESSARILY rest with the society itself.``

I never denied that the society can be responsible. However, I do hold the view that the society is not ALWAYS responsible. In any case, it is overly simplistic to play verbal volleyball in such matters without an in-depth and objective analysis.

Moreover, if we accede to your apparant views that societies are responsible for such occurances entirely and that the rest of the world has no influence in such matters, then my dear friend, should we assume that you are stating that the Indian society is RESPONSIBLE for the existence of all of the following??? :

MEGHALAYA :
Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
People’s Liberation Front of Meghalaya (PLF-M)

TRIPURA:
All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT)
Borok National Council of Tripura (BNCT)

NAGALAND:
National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Isak-Muivah) – NSCN(IM)
National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) – NSCN (K)
Naga National Council (Adino) – NNC (Adino)
Revolutionary United Front (RUF)

MIZORAM:
Bru National Liberation Front

ASSAM:
United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA)
Adivasi Cobra Force (ACF)
Dima Halim Daogah (DHD)
Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)


MANIPUR:
Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)
Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL)
Manipur People`s Liberation Front (MPLF)
People`s Liberation Army (PLA)
People`s Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (PREPAK)
United National Liberation Front (UNLF)
Kuki Liberation Army (KLA)
Kuki National Army (KNA)
Kuki National Front (KNF)
Kuki Revolutionary Army (KRA)
National Socialist Council of Nagaland -- Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM)
People`s United Liberation Front (PULF)
United Kuki Liberation Front (UKLF)
Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA)

.....whew... that was a long list so I omitted a huge chuck for convenience. Moreover, I deliberately omitted the groups/parties pertaining to Punjab and Kashmir, because I know that you would be tempted to assign all responsibility for them to external elements even though you have demostrated your disbelief in the fact that ````The responsibility for the presence of undesirable elements in a society (whether jehadi or non-jehadi) does not NECESSARILY rest with the society itself.``

Wouldn`t it be convenient if everyone had a ``charlie and his aunt....`` to blame and did make good use of them for a change?

The author writes <<< In some quarters Mr. Bush is already such a popular figure that a poem entitled “The Leader” praising Mr. Bush and containing his name in a hidden format appeared mysteriously in textbooks for Pakistani school children! >>>

Things just don`t appear ``mysteriously`` in school text books. That was placed in there out of design. Reminds us of the anti-soviet Afghan textbooks that the CIA was funding the University of Nebraska to print in the 1980s. A couple of years back one person on one of these text book boards suggested my article ``Scientific Revelation`` as part of the cirriculum on Islam but the other damn Mullah-minded members shouted it down. Apparently they had no objection to the Bush poem. They compliment each others purpose the Mullahs and the Imperialists. A fine c@ck & bull tale they have spun to keep the world busy as it starves to death.

Re: # 3
M. Asadi sahib,
relax... the reference to the mysterious appearance of the poem was just an attempt in sarcasm. As it is, no one had claimed responsibility for the appearance of the poem and nobody at the Ministry of Education had a clue as to where it appeared from - A sign from God, I tell you !!!

The author writes <<< In some quarters Mr. Bush is already such a popular figure that a poem entitled “The Leader” praising Mr. Bush and containing his name in a hidden format appeared mysteriously in textbooks for Pakistani school children! >>>

Things just don`t appear ``mysteriously`` in school text books. That was placed in there out of design. Reminds us of the anti-soviet Afghan textbooks that the CIA was funding the University of Nebraska to print in the 1980s. A couple of years back one person on one of these text book boards suggested my article ``Scientific Revelation`` as part of the cirriculum on Islam but the other damn Mullah-minded members shouted it down. Apparently they had no objection to the Bush poem. They compliment each others purpose the Mullahs and the Imperialists. A fine cock and bull tale they have spun to keep the world busy as it starves to death.

One can not pin point who are terrorist but one can speculate.
Indian RAW and Afghan Intelligency can be possible to ``spoil`` bush visit.
BLA , sindhi nationalist, foreign agents or people against Iran/PK/India pipe may be doing. Some terrorist must be doing to damage General .