Why is Bush so Keen on a Nuke Deal ?

Yaar Nabendu, didn`t I say that the US still hasn`t approved of the IPI pipeline?

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 03 08 story_8-3-2006_pg1_4

``The White House said on Tuesday it still opposes a proposed natural gas pipeline linking Iran with India, clarifying remarks by President George W Bush that seemed to soften US opposition to the project. Bush had seemed to suggest a shift in policy when he said during a visit to Pakistan on Friday that “our beef with Iran is not the pipeline, our beef with Iran is the fact that they want to develop a nuclear weapon.”``

re: Talking about double standards
Pakis are fond of talking about double standards when it comes to the nuclear deal between India and US. Paki newspapers are telling the worlds how Pak has not been rewarded with a similar deal even though Pak has been an ally of US in fighting terrorism.
The fact is: policies of a nation are dictated by strategic interests and not by altruistic motives like ``being fair to everybody``.
When India became independent more than 50 years ago, it faced a belligerant US that said: you are either with us or against us. Nehru chose not to align with either superpower during the cold war and this resulted in India being out of the strategic radar of US for many decades.
In recent years, post 9/11, India and US strategic interests have converged. While India is seen as a strategic ally in the area, Pak is seen as a ``necessary evil`` to fight terrorism from Al Qaida. Pakis may term this double standard but that is how the world operates.
This Washington Post article talks about double standards.
(The Israeli bomb threatens nobody. An Iranian bomb does. India has transferred its nuclear technology to no one. Pakistan has. No one worries about India or Israel making the technology available to terrorists. Everyone worries about Iran doing that. These are distinctions with great differences. They are, as critics charge, double standards, but to apply a single standard to both friend and enemy, while it might be fair, would be singularly stupid.)
Sridhar

#101 by soysauce on March 7, 2006 10:51am PT


why do you think Fred Kaplan`s opinion is any more worthwhile than, say, your own?


The sky doesn`t stop being blue just cos Kaplan says it is purple..

He makes a very good point..Dubya was banking on this deal to make news..I posted an article earlier about how Rice called up MMS and told him his negotiators were playing hardball...MMS backed up his negotiators and as it went down to the wire, the US caved.

some of my favorit Indian friends...:) -- in the exuberance of India`s nuclearization -- are so enamored by the Bush`s `surrendering deal` they have lost the bone for comprehending serious critical satires -- the two articles quoted are no compliments to India but serious criticism of Bush`s Buffoonery in India --

hence not a good omen for the approval of the `deal` by the American media and American Congress........:)

some of my favorit Indian friends...:) -- in the exuberance of India`s nuclearization -- are so enamored by the Bush`s `surrendering deal` they have lost the bone for comprehending serious critical satires -- the two articles quoted are no compliments to India but serious criticism of Bush`s Buffoonery in India -- hence not a good omen for the approval of the `deal` by the American media and American Congress........:)

arjun
just a general observation - why do you think Fred Kaplan`s opinion is any more worthwhile than, say, your own?
I don`t see in what he wrote anything new or insightful. It`s just a bunch of cliche`s strung together. I have nothing against Kaplan, not having read him much, but in general, why are the OPINIONS of some people more valuable unless they contain some new insight or some such.
As they say, opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has them. Why are some a$$holes more important?

#95 nabendubabu,
Jang paraphrased Blackwell as saying the quickest way to empty a drawing room in dilli is to mention india as a buffer against china - so one may surmise being a buffer state for amrika is not on india`s interest.
Bush wants india to open up to the walmarts selling cheap chinese manufactured goods? What`s in it for the USA?
At any rate, it all boils down to our need to show up pakistan (& pakistan`s desperation to show us up) - at least that`s what your post suggests. The last time the darkies were fighting among themselves and got the white man to pick sides we ended up with a 200-year overlordship...
So hasanji is on to something.

re: Why are Indians happy about the deal
Some Pakis who are wondering may find answers in the following article:
Why are Indians happy with this deal
(A lot of people in India like this bargain, too. Not because they have any interest in ``counterbalancing`` China on America`s behalf. As former U.S. Ambassador to India Robert Blackwill explained last week, Indians aren`t anti-China. They want China to get richer so that the Chinese can buy more of what India`s selling. No, they are glad to strike a favorable deal with the United States because of what it symbolizes. After decades of being scorned by the United States as a friend of the Soviets and blacklisted for refusing to accept the non-proliferation regime, India was finally invited into the club of world powers -- indeed, India was whisked through the VIP entrance. A happy Prime Minister Manmohan Singh heralded ``India`s emergence as a full member of a new nuclear world order.``)
Sridhar

India Giver
Why was Bush so generous in New Delhi?
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Monday, March 6, 2006, at 6:09 PM ET

Many epithets can be hurled at George W. Bush`s foreign policy, but I wouldn`t expect ``weak-kneed`` to be among them—until his nuclear deal last week with India, which is looking more slack and supine with each inspection.

A cardinal rule of negotiation, whether for labor talks or international diplomacy, is don`t be afraid to leave the table. Bush broke this rule.

India needed this deal more than the United States did. Yet it was India that got everything it wanted—and Washington that caved. The deal was wrapped up less than two hours before Bush was scheduled to hold his press conference in New Delhi with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Bush reportedly ordered his negotiators to give in on the final disputes rather than defer the accord and mangle his timetable.

As I`ve written in Slate twice before, it`s very much in America`s interest to form a grand alliance with India—the world`s largest democracy, one of the fastest-growing economies, an Asian counterweight to a rising China, and a vast market already inclined toward the United States. It`s also long been clear that an alliance would have to entail some sort of nuclear partnership. India`s energy needs are enormous; its energy resources are slender; and, as presidents from Richard Nixon to Bill Clinton have realized when they tried to strike a deal, India just isn`t going to dismantle its nuclear arsenal or sign the NPT, which would require it to do so. And so the earlier attempts collapsed.

re: a lot of controversy to the deal


Sridhar

Businessmen disappointed by outcome of Bush visit

By Aamir Shafaat Khan


KARACHI, March 6: Industrialists and businessmen felt highly disappointed over the last week’s visit of President George W. Bush and termed his stopover in Pakistan a “mere courtesy call.” They believed that India had been the main beneficiary of the visit during which nuclear and other business deals were inked.

Businessmen were expecting the signing of a Bilateral Investment Treaty (BIT) between Pakistan and the United States that could have paved the way for greater market access for the local exporters besides, expansion of bilateral trade.

Commenting on the visit on Monday, Chairman Site Association of Industry, Ameen Bandukda, said that actually, the US president had made a courtesy visit to Pakistan as his main focus was India and signing of a number of agreements there during the South Asian visit.

He said that there was some lacuna in signing of the BIT on issues like proper implementation of Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) in Pakistan and indirect expropriation and compensation mechanism which means that Pakistan commits to compensate the US investor for any loss that he may incur due to a change in policy.

He said that negotiations could have been held on these issues and assurances could be given that these issues would be addressed in a due course of time.

However, the US president should have offered some concessions to the business community as a proof of its commitment to support the development process in Pakistan.

If US can give Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nepal, Jordan, Madagascar, and Kenya market access and zero-rated duty on import of goods from these countries, then why it had ignored Pakistan, he said.

Ameen said that Pakistan’s export to US is $3.4 billion per annum, with better market access it can easily cross $five billion mark.

Chairman Korangi Association of Trade and Industry (KATI), Gulzar Firoze said that perhaps Pakistanis were expecting more from the US, but being the KATI chairman he was not expecting a major breakthrough from the US President’s visit to Pakistan in terms of greater bilateral trade.

“It was just a friendly visit of Mr Bush to show that Pakistan is a friend. It was not at all a purposeful visit from the business point of view,” he said.

Perhaps, neither the Pakistani nor the US government had done any spadework for business negotiations, BIT and market access. “I can say that the US president was actually not ready for any breakthrough in expanding business with Pakistan,” he added. Briefly, KATI chief said, “He would say that he (Mr Bush) came, he ruled and he left.”

President Karachi Chamber of Commerce and Industry (KCCI), Haroon Farouki also termed the Bush’s visit as symbolic.

“There might be some political headway in talks with the government but there was no specific economic agenda for expansion of business activities with Pakistan,” KCCI chief said.

It was presumed in the business circles that there would be a comprehensive dialogue on BIT, greater market access and agreements on energy needs of Pakistan with the US, but unfortunately, nothing had happened. In India, Mr Bush had a wide range of negotiations and agreements on agriculture, IT, atomic energy, fuel and energy needs, but in Pakistan he came out with general statement like appreciating Pakistan as a frontline state in fighting terrorism and agreeing on giving aid rather than boosting trade with Pakistan, Farouki said.

Chairman F B Area Association of Trade and Industry, Rehan Zeeshan said that actually expectations were very high from the US president’s visit regarding giving more market access to Pakistani products especially, textiles.

“We are disappointed that nothing materialized with reference to fostering business with Pakistan,” he said.

“Mr Bush has actually bowled a googly on Pakistan’s visit as he appeared more interested in playing and learning cricket,” he added.

Re: # 94

Indians are neither gullible nor easily taken in.

The British Sahibs did rule our sub-continent for two hundred years. But things have changed.

The whole Nuclear deal has very little to do with Nuclear Power, and nothing whatever to do with Nuclear Bombs.

Everyone knows that Nuclear Power will, at best, provide a very small fraction of India`s energy needs over the next decade.

Everyone also knows that India has Nuclear bombs, Prez Bush did not offer newer or better bombs.

The real meaning of the Nuclear Deal was :

1. Bush said that India was OK, i.e. even though India refused to sign NPT, it was a reliable and responsible holder of Nuclear technology, unlike Pakistan whose ``scientists`` peddled it all over the globe for personal profit, with the tacit support of the Pak Military. That is what the word ``history`` in Bush`s speech in Islamabad meant.

2. Bush wants US business to get a strong foothold in India, where there are 300 million consumers. He wants WallMart and the likes of it to come to India. Big Business is pushing him.

3. Bush wants India as a buffer against China.

4. Bush told Pakistan ; ``OK, you helped fight terror, but you did not do enough. Step up the action``. Sure enough, Mush did so - killing 100 Talibans in Waziristan - what a coincidence !! Even then, Prez Bush was not willing to give the Pakis more nuclear technology.

5. Pentagon offered F-16s and F-18s, with spares etc, and an offer to manufacture them in India.

The Indian Government is not fool enough to trust Bush. All it does is to extract advantages, one by one, from the US, without giving up anything, by waving the lure of 300 million affluent customers for US products.

In the meantime, other countries are drooling at the prospect of selling stuff to India - after George W Bush has ``blessed`` India, e.g. Australia (Uranium), France (Nuclear reactors) etc. More will follow.

India will squeeze the next US Prez in the same way.

Pakistan will look on, and maybe kiss China`s ass - which will mean losing the friendship of Uncle Sam - a heavy price to pay.

Indians are such gullible, trusting, so easily taken in fools -- if they were not -- the British sahibs wouldn`t have ruled us for 150 years --

the Indians believe in the `wisdom, `integrity`, `farsightedness` and truthiness of the pious pronouncements of that Crazy stupid George -- the Bumbling Buffoon of the American craziest Foreign policy -- based on deceit subterfuge and WHITE LIES.....

you guys hang on to each and every word the moron uttered while in India don`t you -- I bet our moron does not even remember today if he was in India two days ago...

this man is a lame duck president -- soon to be trashed in the dustbin of American history -- a man who did so much damage to this country of ours -- in such a short time -- killing and pillaging all over the world -- destroying cities and villages killing thousands of innocent men women and children -- a cruel man who never felt an iota of remorse in destroying the lives of thousands of his OWN American families and households -- and bankrupting the country in the process --

He LIED to his own people -- he lied to the Iraqis -- and he LIED to the Indians -- and he LIED to the Pakistanis -- today with a straight face he again lied to us that how great Afghanistan is doing -- he saw with his own eyes --

the village idiot goes on promising everybody the MOON where ever he goes -- knowing full well that he neither has the time nor the money nor the intention to fulfil any of those goddam promises that he makes -- either to the people of New Orleans -- to the people in Baghdad, to the people in Kabul to the people in Delhi or in Islamabad...

.... for this ignorant man his `words` in broken English with damaged syntax are his cheapest commodity that he can freely dispenses where ever he goes -- without any cost to the us Taxpayers.

with his counterfeit words as coins he thinks he can purchase the loyalties of the naive and the trusting -- in poor third world countries -- in fact he fully well knows that any of his worthless promissory notes...will NOT be cashable by US Treasury ....because the dollar doesn`t grow on trees in the United States,

the `nuclear deal` is a worthless piece of promissory note that he knows he has no time or inclination to fulfill it -- and he knows the Congress knows it is an internationally illegal immoral trash --

only the naive stupid UPA Nukies don`t know it -- that what they have is a piece of worthless hyper inflated junk bond.

Nuclear deal or no nuclear deal -- India and the United States are natural allies and solid partners -- the trade and the exchange of intellectual properties and scientific know how will occur between the two -- with or WITHOUT the Nuclear `deal` --

everybody knows in the US -- the two great democracies have nowhere to go but come closer and work together -- with or WITHOUT George Bush -- in coming decades because we are so similar and share similar values.....

a ittle foresight and patience should have told the eager-to-become-the-nuky-vassals Indians -- that the two countries are and will be together even without the improper aggrandizement and even without shaking the bloody hands of a War Criminal -- who is nothing but --

a temporary Presidential nightmare and anomaly......that is soon to be thrown in the trash can of American failed presidencies....

re:#87 by nasah
(with humongous ONE BILLION population suffering under the Himalayas of poverty and deprivation -- primitive roads -- primitive electricity -- primitive health care -- primitive social, cultural, religious norms -- )
Depends on where u look. Much of Orissa, Bihar i agree is like Pakistan: primitive.
But a lot of development is happening in other areas. The important think is India is going to see some real investments in future. Since agriculture is still the main income generating area in rural India, it is significant that President Bush made a commitment (after visiting the Agricultural University in Hyderabad) that there will be collaboration in Agriculture technology to try usher in a second Green Revolution. This has a potential to make significant impact on the rural economy.
The kind of grinding poverty that u describe existed before this deal and will exist after the deal but what has changed now is that some Pakis like u are jumping up and down like jacka$$es like, to use PGWodehouse`s favorite phrase, cat on hot bricks. I suggest u guys take some deep breaths, do yoga or take a cold shower or something.
Sridhar

re:#82 by nasah
I don`t think Pakis have understood the implication of this deal. It is not about nuclear deal alone. Whether roads are potholed or somebody somewhere is starving is not the issue. These social problems have existed in India and will get less and less as economy grows. This deal is a way Bush is telling the world that India is coming out of its nuclear pariah status because he thinks India deserves to be in the big league. Investments in Science and Tech, Agriculture, etc will follow but nuclear deal has attained prominence because this was the bone of contention between India and US for a long time, with Indian diplomats telling the American counterparts that if US is serious about India, it would stop penalising her for not signing NPT.
Well, now Indians have gotten what they wanted and guess what, some of them are not happy even now!

BTW, from what i have heard so far, this deal will have a very, very tough time passing thr` the congress. I just heard objections principally from Ed Markeey, co-chair of the Bipartisan Task Force on Nonproliferation and senior Democrat on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, who has already formed a coalition opposing this deal.
The Link
Sridhar