Why is Bush so Keen on a Nuke Deal ?

Yaar Nabendu, didn`t I say that the US still hasn`t approved of the IPI pipeline?

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 03 08 story_8-3-2006_pg1_4

``The White House said on Tuesday it still opposes a proposed natural gas pipeline linking Iran with India, clarifying remarks by President George W Bush that seemed to soften US opposition to the project. Bush had seemed to suggest a shift in policy when he said during a visit to Pakistan on Friday that “our beef with Iran is not the pipeline, our beef with Iran is the fact that they want to develop a nuclear weapon.”``

re: Talking about double standards
Pakis are fond of talking about double standards when it comes to the nuclear deal between India and US. Paki newspapers are telling the worlds how Pak has not been rewarded with a similar deal even though Pak has been an ally of US in fighting terrorism.
The fact is: policies of a nation are dictated by strategic interests and not by altruistic motives like ``being fair to everybody``.
When India became independent more than 50 years ago, it faced a belligerant US that said: you are either with us or against us. Nehru chose not to align with either superpower during the cold war and this resulted in India being out of the strategic radar of US for many decades.
In recent years, post 9/11, India and US strategic interests have converged. While India is seen as a strategic ally in the area, Pak is seen as a ``necessary evil`` to fight terrorism from Al Qaida. Pakis may term this double standard but that is how the world operates.
This Washington Post article talks about double standards.
(The Israeli bomb threatens nobody. An Iranian bomb does. India has transferred its nuclear technology to no one. Pakistan has. No one worries about India or Israel making the technology available to terrorists. Everyone worries about Iran doing that. These are distinctions with great differences. They are, as critics charge, double standards, but to apply a single standard to both friend and enemy, while it might be fair, would be singularly stupid.)
Sridhar

#101 by soysauce on March 7, 2006 10:51am PT


why do you think Fred Kaplan`s opinion is any more worthwhile than, say, your own?


The sky doesn`t stop being blue just cos Kaplan says it is purple..

He makes a very good point..Dubya was banking on this deal to make news..I posted an article earlier about how Rice called up MMS and told him his negotiators were playing hardball...MMS backed up his negotiators and as it went down to the wire, the US caved.

some of my favorit Indian friends...:) -- in the exuberance of India`s nuclearization -- are so enamored by the Bush`s `surrendering deal` they have lost the bone for comprehending serious critical satires -- the two articles quoted are no compliments to India but serious criticism of Bush`s Buffoonery in India --

hence not a good omen for the approval of the `deal` by the American media and American Congress........:)

some of my favorit Indian friends...:) -- in the exuberance of India`s nuclearization -- are so enamored by the Bush`s `surrendering deal` they have lost the bone for comprehending serious critical satires -- the two articles quoted are no compliments to India but serious criticism of Bush`s Buffoonery in India -- hence not a good omen for the approval of the `deal` by the American media and American Congress........:)

arjun
just a general observation - why do you think Fred Kaplan`s opinion is any more worthwhile than, say, your own?
I don`t see in what he wrote anything new or insightful. It`s just a bunch of cliche`s strung together. I have nothing against Kaplan, not having read him much, but in general, why are the OPINIONS of some people more valuable unless they contain some new insight or some such.
As they say, opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has them. Why are some a$$holes more important?

#95 nabendubabu,
Jang paraphrased Blackwell as saying the quickest way to empty a drawing room in dilli is to mention india as a buffer against china - so one may surmise being a buffer state for amrika is not on india`s interest.
Bush wants india to open up to the walmarts selling cheap chinese manufactured goods? What`s in it for the USA?
At any rate, it all boils down to our need to show up pakistan (& pakistan`s desperation to show us up) - at least that`s what your post suggests. The last time the darkies were fighting among themselves and got the white man to pick sides we ended up with a 200-year overlordship...
So hasanji is on to something.

re: Why are Indians happy about the deal
Some Pakis who are wondering may find answers in the following article:
Why are Indians happy with this deal
(A lot of people in India like this bargain, too. Not because they have any interest in ``counterbalancing`` China on America`s behalf. As former U.S. Ambassador to India Robert Blackwill explained last week, Indians aren`t anti-China. They want China to get richer so that the Chinese can buy more of what India`s selling. No, they are glad to strike a favorable deal with the United States because of what it symbolizes. After decades of being scorned by the United States as a friend of the Soviets and blacklisted for refusing to accept the non-proliferation regime, India was finally invited into the club of world powers -- indeed, India was whisked through the VIP entrance. A happy Prime Minister Manmohan Singh heralded ``India`s emergence as a full member of a new nuclear world order.``)
Sridhar

India Giver
Why was Bush so generous in New Delhi?
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Monday, March 6, 2006, at 6:09 PM ET

Many epithets can be hurled at George W. Bush`s foreign policy, but I wouldn`t expect ``weak-kneed`` to be among them—until his nuclear deal last week with India, which is looking more slack and supine with each inspection.

A cardinal rule of negotiation, whether for labor talks or international diplomacy, is don`t be afraid to leave the table. Bush broke this rule.

India needed this deal more than the United States did. Yet it was India that got everything it wanted—and Washington that caved. The deal was wrapped up less than two hours before Bush was scheduled to hold his press conference in New Delhi with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Bush reportedly ordered his negotiators to give in on the final disputes rather than defer the accord and mangle his timetable.

As I`ve written in Slate twice before, it`s very much in America`s interest to form a grand alliance with India—the world`s largest democracy, one of the fastest-growing economies, an Asian counterweight to a rising China, and a vast market already inclined toward the United States. It`s also long been clear that an alliance would have to entail some sort of nuclear partnership. India`s energy needs are enormous; its energy resources are slender; and, as presidents from Richard Nixon to Bill Clinton have realized when they tried to strike a deal, India just isn`t going to dismantle its nuclear arsenal or sign the NPT, which would require it to do so. And so the earlier attempts collapsed.

re: a lot of controversy to the deal


Sridhar

Businessmen disappointed by outcome of Bush visit

By Aamir Shafaat Khan


KARACHI, March 6: Industrialists and businessmen felt highly disappointed over the last week’s visit of President George W. Bush and termed his stopover in Pakistan a “mere courtesy call.” They believed that India had been the main beneficiary of the visit during which nuclear and other business deals were inked.

Businessmen were expecting the signing of a Bilateral Investment Treaty (BIT) between Pakistan and the United States that could have paved the way for greater market access for the local exporters besides, expansion of bilateral trade.

Commenting on the visit on Monday, Chairman Site Association of Industry, Ameen Bandukda, said that actually, the US president had made a courtesy visit to Pakistan as his main focus was India and signing of a number of agreements there during the South Asian visit.

He said that there was some lacuna in signing of the BIT on issues like proper implementation of Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) in Pakistan and indirect expropriation and compensation mechanism which means that Pakistan commits to compensate the US investor for any loss that he may incur due to a change in policy.

He said that negotiations could have been held on these issues and assurances could be given that these issues would be addressed in a due course of time.

However, the US president should have offered some concessions to the business community as a proof of its commitment to support the development process in Pakistan.

If US can give Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nepal, Jordan, Madagascar, and Kenya market access and zero-rated duty on import of goods from these countries, then why it had ignored Pakistan, he said.

Ameen said that Pakistan’s export to US is $3.4 billion per annum, with better market access it can easily cross $five billion mark.

Chairman Korangi Association of Trade and Industry (KATI), Gulzar Firoze said that perhaps Pakistanis were expecting more from the US, but being the KATI chairman he was not expecting a major breakthrough from the US President’s visit to Pakistan in terms of greater bilateral trade.

“It was just a friendly visit of Mr Bush to show that Pakistan is a friend. It was not at all a purposeful visit from the business point of view,” he said.

Perhaps, neither the Pakistani nor the US government had done any spadework for business negotiations, BIT and market access. “I can say that the US president was actually not ready for any breakthrough in expanding business with Pakistan,” he added. Briefly, KATI chief said, “He would say that he (Mr Bush) came, he ruled and he left.”

President Karachi Chamber of Commerce and Industry (KCCI), Haroon Farouki also termed the Bush’s visit as symbolic.

“There might be some political headway in talks with the government but there was no specific economic agenda for expansion of business activities with Pakistan,” KCCI chief said.

It was presumed in the business circles that there would be a comprehensive dialogue on BIT, greater market access and agreements on energy needs of Pakistan with the US, but unfortunately, nothing had happened. In India, Mr Bush had a wide range of negotiations and agreements on agriculture, IT, atomic energy, fuel and energy needs, but in Pakistan he came out with general statement like appreciating Pakistan as a frontline state in fighting terrorism and agreeing on giving aid rather than boosting trade with Pakistan, Farouki said.

Chairman F B Area Association of Trade and Industry, Rehan Zeeshan said that actually expectations were very high from the US president’s visit regarding giving more market access to Pakistani products especially, textiles.

“We are disappointed that nothing materialized with reference to fostering business with Pakistan,” he said.

“Mr Bush has actually bowled a googly on Pakistan’s visit as he appeared more interested in playing and learning cricket,” he added.

Re: # 94

Indians are neither gullible nor easily taken in.

The British Sahibs did rule our sub-continent for two hundred years. But things have changed.

The whole Nuclear deal has very little to do with Nuclear Power, and nothing whatever to do with Nuclear Bombs.

Everyone knows that Nuclear Power will, at best, provide a very small fraction of India`s energy needs over the next decade.

Everyone also knows that India has Nuclear bombs, Prez Bush did not offer newer or better bombs.

The real meaning of the Nuclear Deal was :

1. Bush said that India was OK, i.e. even though India refused to sign NPT, it was a reliable and responsible holder of Nuclear technology, unlike Pakistan whose ``scientists`` peddled it all over the globe for personal profit, with the tacit support of the Pak Military. That is what the word ``history`` in Bush`s speech in Islamabad meant.

2. Bush wants US business to get a strong foothold in India, where there are 300 million consumers. He wants WallMart and the likes of it to come to India. Big Business is pushing him.

3. Bush wants India as a buffer against China.

4. Bush told Pakistan ; ``OK, you helped fight terror, but you did not do enough. Step up the action``. Sure enough, Mush did so - killing 100 Talibans in Waziristan - what a coincidence !! Even then, Prez Bush was not willing to give the Pakis more nuclear technology.

5. Pentagon offered F-16s and F-18s, with spares etc, and an offer to manufacture them in India.

The Indian Government is not fool enough to trust Bush. All it does is to extract advantages, one by one, from the US, without giving up anything, by waving the lure of 300 million affluent customers for US products.

In the meantime, other countries are drooling at the prospect of selling stuff to India - after George W Bush has ``blessed`` India, e.g. Australia (Uranium), France (Nuclear reactors) etc. More will follow.

India will squeeze the next US Prez in the same way.

Pakistan will look on, and maybe kiss China`s ass - which will mean losing the friendship of Uncle Sam - a heavy price to pay.

Indians are such gullible, trusting, so easily taken in fools -- if they were not -- the British sahibs wouldn`t have ruled us for 150 years --

the Indians believe in the `wisdom, `integrity`, `farsightedness` and truthiness of the pious pronouncements of that Crazy stupid George -- the Bumbling Buffoon of the American craziest Foreign policy -- based on deceit subterfuge and WHITE LIES.....

you guys hang on to each and every word the moron uttered while in India don`t you -- I bet our moron does not even remember today if he was in India two days ago...

this man is a lame duck president -- soon to be trashed in the dustbin of American history -- a man who did so much damage to this country of ours -- in such a short time -- killing and pillaging all over the world -- destroying cities and villages killing thousands of innocent men women and children -- a cruel man who never felt an iota of remorse in destroying the lives of thousands of his OWN American families and households -- and bankrupting the country in the process --

He LIED to his own people -- he lied to the Iraqis -- and he LIED to the Indians -- and he LIED to the Pakistanis -- today with a straight face he again lied to us that how great Afghanistan is doing -- he saw with his own eyes --

the village idiot goes on promising everybody the MOON where ever he goes -- knowing full well that he neither has the time nor the money nor the intention to fulfil any of those goddam promises that he makes -- either to the people of New Orleans -- to the people in Baghdad, to the people in Kabul to the people in Delhi or in Islamabad...

.... for this ignorant man his `words` in broken English with damaged syntax are his cheapest commodity that he can freely dispenses where ever he goes -- without any cost to the us Taxpayers.

with his counterfeit words as coins he thinks he can purchase the loyalties of the naive and the trusting -- in poor third world countries -- in fact he fully well knows that any of his worthless promissory notes...will NOT be cashable by US Treasury ....because the dollar doesn`t grow on trees in the United States,

the `nuclear deal` is a worthless piece of promissory note that he knows he has no time or inclination to fulfill it -- and he knows the Congress knows it is an internationally illegal immoral trash --

only the naive stupid UPA Nukies don`t know it -- that what they have is a piece of worthless hyper inflated junk bond.

Nuclear deal or no nuclear deal -- India and the United States are natural allies and solid partners -- the trade and the exchange of intellectual properties and scientific know how will occur between the two -- with or WITHOUT the Nuclear `deal` --

everybody knows in the US -- the two great democracies have nowhere to go but come closer and work together -- with or WITHOUT George Bush -- in coming decades because we are so similar and share similar values.....

a ittle foresight and patience should have told the eager-to-become-the-nuky-vassals Indians -- that the two countries are and will be together even without the improper aggrandizement and even without shaking the bloody hands of a War Criminal -- who is nothing but --

a temporary Presidential nightmare and anomaly......that is soon to be thrown in the trash can of American failed presidencies....

re:#87 by nasah
(with humongous ONE BILLION population suffering under the Himalayas of poverty and deprivation -- primitive roads -- primitive electricity -- primitive health care -- primitive social, cultural, religious norms -- )
Depends on where u look. Much of Orissa, Bihar i agree is like Pakistan: primitive.
But a lot of development is happening in other areas. The important think is India is going to see some real investments in future. Since agriculture is still the main income generating area in rural India, it is significant that President Bush made a commitment (after visiting the Agricultural University in Hyderabad) that there will be collaboration in Agriculture technology to try usher in a second Green Revolution. This has a potential to make significant impact on the rural economy.
The kind of grinding poverty that u describe existed before this deal and will exist after the deal but what has changed now is that some Pakis like u are jumping up and down like jacka$$es like, to use PGWodehouse`s favorite phrase, cat on hot bricks. I suggest u guys take some deep breaths, do yoga or take a cold shower or something.
Sridhar

re:#82 by nasah
I don`t think Pakis have understood the implication of this deal. It is not about nuclear deal alone. Whether roads are potholed or somebody somewhere is starving is not the issue. These social problems have existed in India and will get less and less as economy grows. This deal is a way Bush is telling the world that India is coming out of its nuclear pariah status because he thinks India deserves to be in the big league. Investments in Science and Tech, Agriculture, etc will follow but nuclear deal has attained prominence because this was the bone of contention between India and US for a long time, with Indian diplomats telling the American counterparts that if US is serious about India, it would stop penalising her for not signing NPT.
Well, now Indians have gotten what they wanted and guess what, some of them are not happy even now!

BTW, from what i have heard so far, this deal will have a very, very tough time passing thr` the congress. I just heard objections principally from Ed Markeey, co-chair of the Bipartisan Task Force on Nonproliferation and senior Democrat on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, who has already formed a coalition opposing this deal.
The Link
Sridhar

anyway - looks like a lot of people are opposed to this deal - so it may not get ratified in US Congress..... so take it easy....

nasah mian

You are right - India has to build roads, ports, infrastructure, eliminate poverty - there is no two ways about it..... And this ``civilan`` nuke deal is supposed to help with that by providing ways to produce energy which is urgently needed for all the development work to go on.

This deal is not about nuke weapons - india is not seeking to produce more weapons - if that was the case, this deal wouldn`t go thru..... on the contrary, the deal is about ``civilian`` nuke tech to generate energy for the growing economy.... get it?

Now - as for the tourist road to agra [ as many other roads all over the country] - why do you think it`s bad shape? because your commie brothers who have controlled the country for decades have left it that way - they are more interested in foreign causes than their own country`s development.... if you haven`t noticed - the highway project started by our man vajpayee has slowed down after the commies have taken over.....

Being a commie sympathizer - do you have anything to say about that?.....

#87 by nasah on March 6, 2006 11:14am PT


primitive electricity


If we could harness YOUR hot air to generate electricity, India wouldn`t need nuclear energy......

In the meantime, some of us would like to know how a nuclear deal affects the state of the road from agra to jaipur...or how, if you want electricity, nuclear isn`t a good option..

There is a lot that is wrong with the Indian nuclear program:
- The long delays in plant construction and low load factors causing low returns.
- The mindless pursuit of the thorium fuel cycle which still may be 50 years away.
- The interminiable delays in the ATV project.

All this and much more is true, but as long as all you say is in the form of polemics (that too not original, but borrowing from the polemics of non-proliferation wallah`s a most hypocitic breed), you are just venting!

come on, Hasan-saheb you are better than that!

the QUESTION is why suddenly the goddam Indians are craving the goddam Nuclear Weapons of Mass Destruction so badly -- what has changed -- what will they with do it -- attack someone -- or defend themselves -- from whom -- who is about to attack India --

with humongous ONE BILLION population suffering under the Himalayas of poverty and deprivation -- primitive roads -- primitive electricity -- primitive health care -- primitive social, cultural, religious norms -- why the Indians want to squander their meager resources on good for nothin exotic very expensive useless WHITE ELEPHANTS of zero return value -- except being the Finasncial Sinkholes for decades to come.....why?

#85

Hasan-saheb I asked for your original thoughts, not those recycled from one Joseph Cirincione.

lets hear them!

Dr Joseph Cirincione, Director for non-proliferation at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, DC:


``The Indian leaders and press are crowing about their victory over the United States. For good reason: President Bush has done what Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and his own father refused to do - break US and international law to aid India`s nuclear-weapons program.

In 1974, India cheated on its agreements with the United States and other nations to do what Iran is accused of doing now: using a peaceful nuclear energy program to build a nuclear bomb. India used plutonium produced in a Canadian-supplied reactor to detonate a bomb it then called a ``peaceful nuclear device``.

In response, president Richard Nixon and Congress stiffened US laws and Nixon organized the Nuclear Suppliers Group to prevent any other nation from following India`s example.

Bush has now unilaterally shattered those guidelines, and his action would violate the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) proscription against aiding another nation`s nuclear-weapons program.

It would require the repeal or revision of several major US laws, including the US Nonproliferation Act. Nor has he won any significant concessions from India. India refuses to agree to end its production of nuclear-weapons material, something the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia and China have already done.

This is where Bush is likely to run into trouble. Republicans and Democrats in the US Congress are deeply concerned about the deal and the way it was crafted. Keeping with the Bush administration`s penchant for secrecy, the deal was cooked by a handful of senior officials (one of whom is now a lobbyist for the Indian government) and never reviewed by the departments of State, Defense or Energy before it was announced with a champagne toast by Bush and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

Congress was never consulted. Republican committee staff say the first members heard about it was when the fax announcing the deal came into their offices. Worse, for the president, this appears to be another give away to a foreign government at the expense of US national-security interests.

Bad example
In addition to breaking US law and shattering long-standing barriers to proliferation, lawmakers are concerned about the example the nuclear-weapons deal sets for other nations.

The lesson Iran is likely to draw is simple: if you hold out long enough, the Americans will cave. All this talk about violating treaties, they will reason, is just smoke. When the Americans think you are important enough, they will break the rules to accommodate you.

Pakistani officials have already said they expect their country to receive a similar deal, and Israel is surely waiting in the wings.

Other nations may decide that they can break the rules, too, to grant special deals to their friends. China is already rumored to be seeking a deal to provide open nuclear assistance to Pakistan - a practice it stopped in the early 1990s after a successful diplomatic campaign by the United States to bring China into conformity with the NPT restrictions.

Will Russia decide that it can make an exception for Iran?

Lawmakers loyal to Bush are already signaling tough times ahead for this deal.

Republican Congressman Ed Royce, chairman of the Subcommittee on International Terrorism and Nonproliferation, offered the following statement after the deal was announced: ``There is enthusiastic support on Capitol Hill for growing US-India ties. owever, the US-India agreement on civil nuclear cooperation has implications beyond US-India relations.

In this process, the goal of curbing nuclear proliferation should be paramount. Congress will continue its careful consideration of this far-reaching agreement.`` Royce`s subcommittee has oversight and legislative responsibilities over non-proliferation matters.

Republican Senator Richard Lugar, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has made no secret of his concerns, as has Republican Congressman Henry Hyde, chairman of the House International Relations Committee.

Democratic Congressman Edward Markey says, ``America cannot credibly preach nuclear temperance from a barstool. We can`t tell Iran, a country that has signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, that they can`t have [uranium] enrichment technologies while simultaneously carving out a special exemption from nuclear-proliferation laws for India, a nation that has refused to sign the treaty.``

This looming congressional battle will pit the proliferation fighters against the nuclear lobby and the increasingly powerful India lobby.

Companies and countries (including France, Canada and Russia) are lining up to sell fuel and reactors to India. They will be joined by the US neo-conservatives who seek to construct an anti-China alliance.

For them, as one architect of the India deal reportedly said, ``The problem is not that India has too many nuclear weapons, it is that they do not have enough.``

If Bush were riding high in the polls and had a string of national-security victories behind him, this David-and-Goliath battle would be won by the nuclear giants. But with sagging popularity, deep concern over his leadership, and anger at his administration`s disregard for laws and consultation, lawmakers more concerned about proliferation than profits could block or amend this deal.

The president may have made a fatal error in putting nuclear weapons at the heart of improved US-India relations.

US lawmakers want the latter, but not at the price of the former. (Asia Times)

---

if the Neocon Mongoloids (who are about to be history anyway) think that India will fight a nuclear war on behalf of the US Raj with China in 2010 -- as the Indian gungadins used to do for the British Raj pre `47 -- they have started snorting cocaine once again...

.....WE did not liberate one India from one British Raj to become another Indian deadmeat for another American Raj.....

.....it will only happen over India`s dead body......period.

#82 by nasah on March 6, 2006 8:40am PT


who the hell cares about that goddam ONE LANE tourist road between Agra and Jaipur that still remains unrepaired


And not signing the deal will do what to the state of this road?

#82

Hasan, how about a postive viewpoint?

What do you think is the right way forward, for instance lets say you feel:

1) India should join the NPT as a have-not state, sign CTBT, bring its fissile stockpile under safegaurds.

2) Feeze building all nuclear plants, leave the 1/2 built ones as they are. Cut down staff by 1/2 at BARC, this will open up housing at the staff quaters which can be given to people of ``Cheetah Camp``.

3) Issue a strong statemate in support of Iran. Send remaining 1/2 of BARC on deputation to Iran.

4)Organize a conference in Delhi which will have Fidel Castro, Mahmud Ahmedinijad, Hugo Chavez, Nilopant Basu, Arundhati Roy, Brinda and Prakash Karat share the same stage and plot the way forawrd for progressive forces to liberate the world from MNC domination?

what is the way forward Hasan-babu?

F`cked up priorities -- for Dr. Strangelove (how I came to love the Bomb so late in the night) of Indian `Progressives` Alliance...

---

``The increase in electricity generation (less than 5%) is not keeping pace with overall economic growth, the oil import bill has gone up by nearly 50%, roads remain potholed and non-existent in many rural areas, ports and airports are jam packed and banks continue to prefer lending to the affluent elite.

During the first nine months of the current financial year that ends in March, the index of six core infrastructure industries (coal, electricity, crude oil, refined petroleum products, steel and cement) grew by 4.5%.

That is a good two percentage points lower than the growth rate in the corresponding period of the previous year.

The point is simply that it would be unrealistic to expect the Indian economy sustain a GDP growth rate of 8% with the infrastructure growing at less than 5%.

While the services sector and manufacturing industry have expanded rapidly, the growth rate of the agricultural sector has been tardy at less than 3%.

There have been reports of thousands of farmers committing suicide because of their inability to repay loans obtained from usurious moneylenders.

At the same time, affluent Indians living in urban areas cities flaunt lifestyles that are comparable to those of the rich in developed countries.

However, even in cities of concrete and steel that glitter on the surface, a third of the residents live in abject poverty, denied secure jobs, social security and access to basic sanitation facilities and clean drinking water.

The challenge to alleviate the lot of India`s poor remains unfulfilled. (BBC)

---

who the hell cares about that goddam ONE LANE tourist road between Agra and Jaipur that still remains unrepaired -- tough luck --

what really matters for the new India is that the Dr. Manmohan Singh will be rolling 50 progressive nuclear bombs a year from the eight military nuclear site untouched under the Nuclear Treaty negotiated by the `tough` Indian negotiators......

weird crazy Indians.....l

Mushy says he wasn`t looking for a nuclear deal..and the fox said the grapes were sour and it wasn`t hungry anyway..

Musharraf says Kabul stirring trouble

By Anwar Iqbal

WASHINGTON, March 5: President Gen Pervez Musharraf on Sunday accused Afghanistan of stirring trouble in Pakistan and said that his country was not seeking N-cooperation from the US.

Pakistan not against deal, wants same

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan said on Thursday it was not against a civilian nuclear deal between the United States and India and demanded the same facility for Pakistan. Information Minister Sheikh Rashid told Daily Times that President Musharraf would discuss the possibility of Pakistan-US cooperation in civilian nuclear technology with US President George Bush. “We hope that we will also get the same kind of cooperation,” Foreign Office spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.

#76 by sanjay

[Prez. Bush`s statement is somewhat strange.]

Yaar, it is very simple. Bush knows that the issue is somewhat sensitive in both India and Pakistan and anyone opposed to it is generally seen to have sold out to the US. By not outrightly rejecting the IPI and yet not supporting it openly, Bush knows that the issue is effectively killed because without US blessings, the pipeline is a non-starter. An outrightly blunt statement would have raised hackles, especially among the Commies and the Islamists, and Bush knew there were huge demomstrations before and even during his visit in both India and Pakistan. We all know that when the US backs something, it does so with full force. His statement is the diplomatic equivalent of ``sweet nothings`` which means they have no real value.

ranjit #72

`` I would say yes. This visit was a complete fiasco for Pakistan. It saw India being crowned the boss of South Asia by Bush. Bush articualted that India and Pakistan are different, Pakistan will not get the same treatment or same goodies like nuclear deal. Pakistan`s plans for major economic breakthrough did not occur either. Also Bush refused to mediate in Kashmir. So all in all, a complete failure for Pakistan. ``

I was never sure why Pakistan had to be hypenated with India in the first place.

`` At this point in time, it is only Musharraf, the corp commanders and a small coterie of people who support the US in Pakistan. I would not be surprised if a coup hapens pretty soon to get rid of Musharraf because most Pakistanis are not happy about the US or Musharraf`s behavior with the US. ``

Most Pakistanis would prefer a working relationship with USA and West. Market access for Pakistani textiles sounds reasonable. Military generals have used the bogey of Islamic extremism and outfits like Taliban/Al Qaeda to extract concessions from USA. Maybe the game is ending.

re:#76 by sanjay
Pakistan is demanding a similar deal as India`s quoting its own energy needs (which are really modest in comparison). Bush is telling Pakis: you can have the pipeline if u want but u can`t have a similar deal.
The pipeline will make sense only if India is a party to it. If US tells India: don`t worry about the gas, i will see to it that u have enough from Saudi Arabia (its ally), then India may not be interested in the gas pipeline. Pak`s position is precarious.
Sridhar

re:#73 by sanjay
(It was expected that a minimum :-

* Assurance that such a deal will be signed with Pakistan as and when time comes.
* Some words on Kashmir with advantage Pakistan.
* Some goodies, some words of laurels will be offered.)
As regards the first expectation, i have been saying in my posts that experts in US (on South Asia affairs) have been touting this deal as a ``one-time`` thing. That is, this is unique in many ways and may never happen again.
Reasons are many. Someone already pointed out India`s ability to recycle spent fuel, its ability to build experimental reactors from the scratch etc. There is also the strategic angle vis a vis China.
All in all, i think a masterstroke by Bush though many may not see it that way in the US Congress.
Sridhar

#75

But why should he care about IPI Pipeline?? The US has already conveyed its displeasure to India over IPI Pipeline. Mani Shankar Ayer lost his job over it. PM is not at all keen about it particularly looking at the US response.

Prez. Bush`s statement is somewhat strange.

Ref sanjay #74

[But he thing he (Bush) said what that he does not oppose Iran-Pakistan-India Gas Pipeline.]

But he won`t let American or European companies sell the compressors needed for the pipeline. Ergo, no pipeline.

#73 Continued--

But he thing he said what that he does not oppose Iran-Pakistan-India Gas Pipeline. What could be possible meaning of this statement??

Can anybody comment on it.

#72 RANJIT

You are probably right. When Prez.Bush left for Pakistan, there were speculations that what he would offer to Pakistan. It was expected that a minimum :-

* Assurance that such a deal will be signed with Pakistan as and when time comes.
* Some words on Kashmir with advantage Pakistan.
* Some goodies, some words of laurels will be offered.

Surprisingly, he did nothing. Speculators believe that this is probably the sign of cooling of relations between Pakistan and the US--which what most of the Pakistanis say ``abandoning of Pakistan``. Or atleast its a sign of cooling off of relations between Musharaff and the US.

All in all, the US may not dump Pakistan altogether, but may be they will design a ``new`` Pakistan-democratic and friendly in the region particularly towards Afganistan and India--the new friends of the US.

But the great thing has been what Prez.Bush has given to India. India now (is seen) to join the western block. That what Prez.Bush refers to as ``world stage`` and will be an important constituent of the western world-which Bush refers to as ``major global power``.

But it is hard won victory. India was courting the US for the past 15 years-- since the time of Narsimha Rao and the case was aggressively pursued by three prime-ministers to reach here.

Re:sanjay#71

[...Do you think that the American Sun has set in Pakistan ?....]

I would say yes. This visit was a complete fiasco for Pakistan. It saw India being crowned the boss of South Asia by Bush. Bush articualted that India and Pakistan are different, Pakistan will not get the same treatment or same goodies like nuclear deal. Pakistan`s plans for major economic breakthrough did not occur either. Also Bush refused to mediate in Kashmir. So all in all, a complete failure for Pakistan.

At this point in time, it is only Musharraf, the corp commanders and a small coterie of people who support the US in Pakistan. I would not be surprised if a coup hapens pretty soon to get rid of Musharraf because most Pakistanis are not happy about the US or Musharraf`s behavior with the US.

To all,

Presidents Bush`s visit to Pakistan is over. The visit has been a big disappoitment for the Pakistanis with no worthwhile announcements and practically a snub over similar Nuclear Deal.

Do you think that the American Sun has set in Pakistan ?.

Think. My views later.

I am not a great fan of nuclear energy. At best it is a necessary evil. I doubt Pakistan lost anything.

But the articles on Bush`s safety in Pakistan and Bush visiting Bin laden territorry are daggers into Pakistan`s image. I hope it is a motivation for Pakistanis to change the direction in which their country is moving.

I want this deal, Bush told PM

March 04, 2006 15:10 IST
Last Updated: March 04, 2006 15:38 IST

It was not diplomatic sweet nothings that President George W Bush whispered to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at the airport tarmac upon his arrival in New Delhi on Wednesday evening, but even as flashbulbs popped the two leaders were negotiating the nuclear deal.

Ahead of Bush`s arrival, US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice telephoned the prime minister to complain that the Indian negotiators were making `impossible demands` and pressed for greater flexibility by them. Dr Singh stood firm in backing his team.

As millions watched on television, Bush put his arm around Dr Singh; the two men engaged in an animated chat for several minutes with their principal aides standing nearby. The focus was the unresolved differences between the negotiators.

The US President told Dr Singh, who had made a departure from protocol to receive him, that he never engaged in negotiations.

However, Bush asserted, `I want this deal,` according to the details of the tough, tortuous and down-to-the-wire negotiations that preceded the nuclear agreement a day later.

The deal nearly did not happen but for this last-minute intervention by the US leader, sources involved in the talks said on Saturday.

With this clear directive from their President, the American negotiators engaged in negotiations with their Indian counterparts till about 2 am on Wednesday night-Thursday morning.

Hours later Bush and Dr Singh announced the landmark deal.

During her telephone call to the prime minister, Dr Rice had insisted that New Delhi should accept permanent safeguards of its nuclear facilities to which Dr Singh responded by stating that he would have no problem with that as long as the US assured India perpetual fuel supplies.

The prime minister made it clear to her that he could not negotiate outside his statement to Parliament that only 65 per cent of India`s nuclear facilities would come under international safeguards.
Dr Rice also wanted all future Indian civilian nuclear plants to be placed under international safeguards to which Dr Singh responded by stating that New Delhi had no problem with that as long as it had the right to decide which of the future plants would be declared civilian or strategic.

Finally the US accepted the Indian position, agreeing to permanent supply of fuel and New Delhi`s right to classify its nuclear facilities as civilian or military.

Describing the nuclear agreement as a ``win-win deal``, highly-placed sources in the government said the size and the direction of India`s strategic nuclear programme would be determined by India alone. Fears that the deal will result in capping or constraining nuclear deterrant were unfounded, they said.

#67 damn this new keyboard need to set up the wireless connections ...apologies for the errors typos etc in #67 but you can get the general thrust of the argument.

bongs (various) and others...hey if you guys can do ODE good luck to you. If you can handle the stiff ones better luck to you guys.

The point I was making was this new thing with the US should not have surprised anyone. Here are the reasons

(a) the only nation apart from the top five +germany+japan+Israel - who has mastereed the nuclear cycle is India - and no pakistan has not done and is not capable of doing so in the near future
(b) not only has it mastered the cycle but has also produced a new generation of reactors which is a local design and fabricated locally. Which means the technology it has got IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT from that in the US or the other five mentioned. WHICH MEANS that the NPT IS DEAD IN THE WATER As far as india is concerned Pakistan is not in that position as yet. FOR THE NPT MAKES NO SENSE w.r.t. INDIA. This esentially also means INDIA IS A defacto MEMBER OF THE NUCLEAR SUPPLIERS CLUB - THE GUYS WHO MONITOR NPT
(c) by virtue fo the above, and the fact that it has not proliferated nuclear technology like pakistan has half baked nuclear technology - and this is officially sanctioned nuclear proliferation by Pakistan, also imples that the world can trust India, even if it outside the NPT - Its actions are in line with the NPT`s objectives. And this is not the case with regard to Pakistan

Now this was clear in 1998. It has taken some 7-8 years for matters to come to a head - okay there is a oil crunch which makes Bush situp suddenly (note his State of Union Address).

and hence - bongs and other likes warrioress - my earlier interact. The writing was on the wall since 1998 - if only your esteemed selves loked for it - as they some numerical strategies can predictive ahead of time. It a matter of how you solve those damned DIOPHANTINE equations.

Re: # 55 nasah

Take it easy old boy - take a deep breath and relax - everything will be ok.... we know Bush screwed up in Iraq, middle east and what not - but at least he is doing one thing right.... He is being nice with India - his words and action seem to be in right direction in that front - his ``vision`` of a close relationship between India and US is going to be beneficial to both countries... and being a worthy citizen of both countries[I assume], you should be happy about that - at least acknowledge the fact that Bush got at least one thing right....

Give the devil his due....

bwahaha...

Depite what the pakis on chowk say, Pakiland DID ask for a nuclear deal

Pakistan not against deal, wants same

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan said on Thursday it was not against a civilian nuclear deal between the United States and India and demanded the same facility for Pakistan.

Bush Says Pakistan Cannot Expect Nuclear Deal Like One With India
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
and CARLOTTA GALL

ISLAMABAD, March 4 -- President Bush made clear today that Pakistan should not expect anytime soon a civilian nuclear agreement like the one the United States reached only days ago with India, and he bluntly said that the two archrivals on the subcontinent cannot be compared to each other.

Mr. Bush said that he and Pakistan’s president, General Pervez Musharraf, had discussed a civilian nuclear program for Pakistan during talks this morning.

“I explained that Pakistan and India are different countries with different needs and different histories,`` Mr. Bush said at a joint outdoor news conference with Mr. Musharraf on the grounds of the presidential palace, Aiwan-e-Sadr. “So as we proceed forward, our strategy will take in effect those well-known differences.``

Re: # 62 paarthab
[...This could be irrelevant but interesting...]

Yes - just like YOU... you are an irrelevant but interesting creature..... steeped in failed ideologies - can`t see the future even when it stares right in your face...

Bush`s visit to India and Pakistan clearly shows that now India is miles ahead of Pakistan. Period!! In every field, in every respect, India has beaten Pakistan and is the undisputed boss of South Asia. The world led by Bush recognizes this fact. Bush clearly said that US will never give any nuclear technology to Pakistan which means it considers Pakistan to be in a different category. Also Bush will never interfere in Kashmir.

It is time for Pakistan to accept defeat in South Asia and acknowledge Indian supremacy. The race that started in 1947 is now conclusively over. Pakistan needs to join the Indian bandwagon and become an ally of India.

This could be irrelevant but interesting :

http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/july2004/070204suicidebid.htm

#57 BALLUKHAN

I think even if you hang one OBL, ten OBL will be born as long as Palestine problem is there.

Israel is a powerful state, its not easy to bring it down to its knees. Some kind of compromise between the two peoples is required. And Muslims should stop thinking that Palestine problem is theirs. The Muslims elsewhere have plenty of their own problems to solve--what can they do for Palestine. Let the Palestine and Israelis solve on their own.

Thats what I can say. But you are the better judge.

Regards.

Ref parthaab #31

[Wonder why `righteous` Bush did nt ask MS why only 9 people have so far been convicted in GUjarat even though 3k people wer killed.]

Because he knows that convicting a mob of 2000 crazed Islamic thugs who set fire to the train is well near impossible. He has proof of that from the Los Angeles (post Rodney King verdict) riots.

Ref asli-masanamuthu #4

[If instead the PM could have wrangled a half a million H1B visas in exchange for some IAEA inspection, it would have made a lot of fiscal and common sense.]

Nope. There is no chance that your illiterate brother-in-law is ever going to get a H1B visa. So stop posting crap.

[Prez Bush acknowledged that the deal would require a lot of work on both sides, for Bush to convince Congress, and Singh to convince the Communists (who hold a key 62 seats in the Indian parliament) that the deal is a good one, for both US and India.]

No sweat. Just tell the Commies that by reducing the total number of reactors that can be used for military purposes from the current 22 to just 8, India will be permanently behind China in nuclear capabilities. The Commies will appreciate the logic and support the treaty.

After all, if Muslims can pray in the direction of Mecca, certainly the Commies can pray in the direction of Beijing.

Re: # 56

It is time we hung this goose and stop him from making a spectacle of our faith..................but sir we also need those brave men who would announce like Osama and his deputies do with those shahi farmaans..........FU....we do not think you speak for me....we do not accept all the BS you talk about the clash of faith..................we do not accept your communalizing the world order......................

Then let us hang this man on the streets of Pakistan and tell the world that their Islamic terror is over...and that Bush needs a new enemy...............and that now Bush can stop terrorising the muslims the world over and let them live in peace............

Yes.............that is what WE need to do!!!!

#55 NASAH


you bet that deceitful congenital Liar from Texas is right now telling Mushrraf -- you bring Osama in hand cuffs and we will have the same nuclear agreement with you that we just signed wih our orgasmic friend Dr. Manmohan Singh --

Both of them know that Osama is already dead.


and I assure you the Congress will approve the agreement same way it will approve India`s deal --

Osama can no way affect such a deal with Pakistan.


but if you don`t -- then we will arm India to the teeth with Nukes -- and let the Indians annex Azad Kashmir and part of democratic Sindh and democratic Balochistan that wants to opt out of your crummy army dictatorship......for decidedly democratic India.

All this bonhomie between US and India is to counter China and not Pakistan.



Mr. Dictator -- now its time for you to kill your Golden Goose make a shish-kabob and serve me and Laura in Washington in public before I am thrown into the dustbin of the American Presidential history -- post 2008

--as the worst president of the entire past and future US presidency....

Thats for the history to decide. President Bush will be remembered by many for his courage,lead from the front, an individual decision-maker and simply what is called ``Bushism``.


like yours -- Osama is my only saving grace also -- as `Osama helped me` -- in my reelection -- you must `help` Osama help me AGAIN to get out of the presidential trash can and be rehabilitated in the annals of American history -- before my bloody term ends in 2008...in disgrace.

Nobody in america or in any democracy remembers its past leaders. Nehru and Indira Gandhi, once the dinosaurs of Indian Politics, have been forgotten.


Osama is -- like yours -- MY only SALVATION as well -- enough is enough -- LET`s kill that goddam goose now.....

so Mr. dictator -- either you bring Osama dead or alive -- or I am going to unleash nuclear armed democrat Manmohan Singh -- to put you out of your dictatorial misery -- and liberate Pakistan from your perennial army dictatorship....and

You cant kill a man twice.


.....and make democratic Pakistan a part of democratic India.....

to which Mr. Musharraf said -- but but sir sir we were so tight -- and you yourself said we were so tight....to which Mr. Bush replied -- look Mush -- -- our job pants for us were a little too tight to begin with -- and now as Confirmed Liars -- our pants are also on fire ..

Nobody wants to make democratic or otherwise Pakistan a part of India again.


...so forget about being tight -- will ya..... GO and GET me Osamaaaaaaaaa.....otherwise Manmohan Singh with his nukes is coming to get you....

help help help.....help me me me Osama Osama Osama -- where are you you you hu hu hu....

No point in talking to dead men.

you bet that deceitful congenital Liar from Texas is right now telling Mushrraf -- you bring Osama in hand cuffs and we will have the same nuclear agreement with you that we just signed wih our orgasmic friend Dr. Manmohan Singh --

and I assure you the Congress will approve the agreement same way it will approve India`s deal --

but if you don`t -- then we will arm India to the teeth with Nukes -- and let the Indians annex Azad Kashmir and part of democratic Sindh and democratic Balochistan that wants to opt out of your crummy army dictatorship......for decidedly democratic India.

Mr. Dictator -- now its time for you to kill your Golden Goose make a shish-kabob and serve me and Laura in Washington in public before I am thrown into the dustbin of the American Presidential history -- post 2008

--as the worst president of the entire past and future US presidency....

like yours -- Osama is my only saving grace also -- as `Osama helped me` -- in my reelection -- you must `help` Osama help me AGAIN to get out of the presidential trash can and be rehabilitated in the annals of American history -- before my bloody term ends in 2008...in disgrace.

Osama is -- like yours -- MY only SALVATION as well -- enough is enough -- LET`s kill that goddam goose now.....

so Mr. dictator -- either you bring Osama dead or alive -- or I am going to unleash nuclear armed democrat Manmohan Singh -- to put you out of your dictatorial misery -- and liberate Pakistan from your perennial army dictatorship....and

.....and make democratic Pakistan a part of democratic India.....

to which Mr. Musharraf said -- but but sir sir we were so tight -- and you yourself said we were so tight....to which Mr. Bush replied -- look Mush -- -- our job pants for us were a little too tight to begin with -- and now as Confirmed Liars -- our pants are also on fire ..

...so forget about being tight -- will ya..... GO and GET me Osamaaaaaaaaa.....otherwise Manmohan Singh with his nukes is coming to get you....

help help help.....help me me me Osama Osama Osama -- where are you you you hu hu hu....

Continued from #53

And one more point. The way Prez.Bush has returned from India last evening as a Hero and the general sentiments between the two sides, it will be very-very difficult for the americans not to honour this commitment of the US President to India.

And also, if the Deal is not passed through the US Congress, it will be like giving India on a platter to the Communists/ other Anti-american forces. And the americans know this too well.

#49 RSRIDHAR

[It is a difficult sell, considering a lot of opposition to it in the Congress.]

By what information through informal channels we are getting here, it is certain that the deal will pass through the US Congress. The basic understanding with the Congress and NSG has been reached. Otherwise, Prez.Bush would have never signed the deal in Delhi or most probably he would not have come to India at all, to return empty handed. In fact, he came to India only to ink the deal.

But Bush will have to , on the File, answer many -many questions so that the File is thickened and any future US President does not enter into such agreements with other nations without taking the approval of the US Congress or taking Congress into confidence.

The procedure may take some time in the US with lots of hues and cries and hullagulla in between, but the deal with India will be through at the end of the day.

ahmedmadani #51

`` This all hype by Indians due to silly behaviour. All this is not going to be passed by usa parlment and all is waste.Pakistan will never allow selling control of Nukes. We do not need any help from USA. Already China a brother country is building and will build few 400 MW Plants and china said they do not acre what world sdays as they want to Help Pakistan. Also thanks to Pakistan great scienctit A. Khan all Tech is already achieved. Good luck India, hope they pass and ok in USA parlment. Also China is very unhappy with this deal and will never allow india to have the Nuclear Status they desire. ``

You are right. Nuclear power is not cheap - not the fuel, not the power plants, not the nuclear waste disposal.

The basic problem is that Pakistan does not have uranium to support a 8000 MW civillian power generation program. Someone is going to supply the fuel. China does not have that much uranium to spare.

China cannot do anything if USA, France, UK, Germany and Russia support the deal. I expect Japan, Brazil and South Africa to eventually support Indo-US nuclear accord. They cannot endorse the deal. But they are not going to make any more enemies out of India.

This all hype by Indians due to silly behaviour. All this is not going to be passed by usa parlment and all is waste.Pakistan will never allow selling control of Nukes. We do not need any help from USA. Already China a brother country is building and will build few 400 MW Plants and china said they do not acre what world sdays as they want to Help Pakistan. Also thanks to Pakistan great scienctit A. Khan all Tech is already achieved. Good luck India, hope they pass and ok in USA parlment. Also China is very unhappy with this deal and will never allow india to have the Nuclear Status they desire.

good question -- yes -- ``Why is Bush so Keen on a Nuke Deal ?`` -- why this sudden orgasmic passion for the Nixonian Republican`s `Devious SOB`s`.....

just think of it WHY? --

If Bush is in so much love with Dr. Manmohan Singh`s and his Sonia`s India -- how come the same double crossing Mongoloid OPPOSES so vehemently India`s rightful and overdue -- admission -- to the United Nations Security Council......as the 6th veto bearing permanent member of that exclusive WWII `Big` Five club.....

....why?

just because that Kashmir obsessed Kretin Mushrraf opposes it over his dead body?....come on!

Osama Obsessed Bush is -- playing the easy to please -- hungry for recognition -- yours most obediently -- Nukear Obsessed Gungadin Indians.... against Musharraf`s subterfuge to prevent Americans getting their hands on Osama The Goose -- that has been Laying Golden Eggs -- for Mushrraf and his army -- for the past 5 years,,,,

re: this nuclear deal between India and US
This has to be viewed in a broader context.
consider the following:
1. India did not sign the NPT, so is not legally bound to have her nuclear facilities inspected. India became the nuclear ``pariah`` for years and was in a self-imposed isolaton. But during these years, her scientists managed to build an impressive infrastructure and they are today able to do without international help as far as building nuclear arsenal is concerned.
Recently they demonstrated that capability with FBR. Clearly, in India`s case, NPT regime failed. It could not shake her resolve nor was the punishment effective.
2. Even though India did not sign NPT, she scrupulously avoided proliferating the nuclear technology to other nations (something that cannot be said about Pakistan). In that regard, her credentials are impeccable. US was faced with only 2 choices:
a) punish India by not supplying reactors and technology or
b) find other means of getting India on board.
The first obviously failed. India had chosen thus far not to proliferate because it served her national interest but what if India were to sell the technology to other nations in future. She would not be flouting any rule then except the rule of decency. This must have bothered at least some people in US who were closely following India`s nuclear saga.
Hence, the b) option. Find a way of getting India on board so her nuclear status gets legitimacy and her civilian reactors are open to International inspections. India would of course continue to produce nuclear arsenal from its military reactors but now it is transparent and above board. There is no ambiguity about it.
3. India`s increasing economic clout also means that she will be a major force in Asia along side China. India is a status quo power. Her rise does not threaten US or its Western allies. India is a functional democracy with rule of law, western style legal system, and a huge English speaking population which is increasingly pro-US ( a recent poll showed 70% Indians view US favorably). All this must have factored into the equation when Bush made his first move. A huge democracy in the region literally surrounded by autocratic regimes, dictatorships is a huge stabliizing force.
4. Rise of a belligerant China:
US must be viewing China`s rise with at least some concern if not trepidation. China`s ultranationalism has also meant anti-US feelings among most Chinese. China has huge trade surplus with US and is the manufacturing base for cheap products that pour into US from various factories in China. US economy is dependent on China (and vice versa) in ways that make US sometime look the other way when China violate human rights, IPRs, build huge army and stockpile ICBMs that are nuclear capable and pointing towards US and also, refuse to pin their currency to free market, something that US has been depending for sometime now.
US would like to decrease its dependency on China by leveraging India. This is the reason why it is demanding India open her markets for retail sectors. US would like nothing better than to see Walmart, K-mart base shift to India so that US is not so dependent on china and can be more critical of China in International forums, something that it is wary of doing at present.
Ultimately, it is the rise of China that is bringing the 2 nations together. India seems to want to play the role of stemming the tide of china as it serves her interest in the region also. This nuclear deal just brings India out of her international isolation, a first step in becoming a big player in the region.
The agreement between India and US is being touted as a one-time exception. US President and his colleagues will argue in the Congress that it helps US in decreasing India`s dependence on gas, coal that have detrimental Greenhouse effect and will increase US business with India in that area. It is a difficult sell, considering a lot of opposition to it in the Congress. From what i have seen, it is unlikely that any other country will ever be considered for this kind of a deal. This deal serves a strategic purpose for US. India just happens to fit perfectly into the right slot at the right time.
Sridhar

see dash-dot`s profile

Forgot to add ``metaphorically speaking``

Re: # 45
Y`all used to stiff ODE`s? Haven`t touched them since 1987. It was good to hear old terms being bandied about.
Round off errors on 32 bits are terrible when the step reduces.

#43
metaphorically speaking

Re: # 42

I saw the ``stiff`` in your stiff problems on second reading. All is clear now. Good obfuscation.

Re: # 42
Runge-Kutta methods don`t work well with stiff ordinary differential equations. You need to use Gear`s method . Which big box is the US giving? I used ND500 at BARC.

#42

Its like this dash-dot babu, we continue to use Range-Kutta on a bunch of current problems, now US gives us access to their big-box we can crunch a lot of them simultaneously. All this while we retain the indepence to work on our Adams-Gear algorithm on our own small machine. Someday when we get it to work it will solve all stiff problems and get us close to the global optimum, but till then we need the big box as we have a lot of numbers to crunch.

so whats the big deal? Why are all the Indian desis dancing in the streets naked, while the pakistani desis are all huddled together cursing their luck and asking shower shyte on the world?

It is just a piece of paper on which two people who think they rule their country signed. Nothing much will happen, despite the breathless analyses from people

#34 kulharee
Must be the pressure of the job...

parthaab:

on the other board you are trying to explain how barbaric bush is, and why all the indians should demonstrate and embarass him.

whereas here you are making him Dharam-raj Yudhishthira.

your tricks may work in the naxal-infested black-hole hinterlands of bihar, chattisgarh, andhra. not in a place where people are aware of their surroundings.

#34 She is so bright that if she eat a piece of coal, she will shyt out a diamond.

---

kabaz di nishani ay, hor ki ay.:-)

#33

I didnt watch it. There is lot of stuff underway to increase power generation specially the UMPP (Ultra-Mega-Power-Plants, looks like the babu`s are attending IIM-A classes). It will allow thermal plants to have their own captive coal mines. Anil Aggarwal is the Sterilite guy right? he must be talking about this.

Nuclear power has long gestation periods, typically in India today it takes the NPCIL 5-7 years to make a new plant. On top of this, India has no policy framework in place for private Nuclear plants, all this will take time. In the meanwhile India will try to start imports of completely fabricated fuel-rods to pump up output on existing plants.

re: parthaab # 31

Where one`s own group is not involved, most people lose neither sleep nor dollars, and never dinars, over religious discrimination and religious violence. In many places, convicting 9 people would be an achievement. So please don`t be too harsh on people who have to conduct international diplomacy.

Within ourselves, of course, we have to recognize and address the communal problem.

Re: # 31

parthaab:

kya gujarat bush ki baap ki property hai????

you shameless commies may enjoy dragging indias internal issues abroad (just like the modi visa issue), but even congressis have some dignity and self-respect .

thats why i feel puking when yechuri/karat talk about patriotism and sovereignty.

Re: # 32

Chaltoo…why should he ask about the stuff that he can easily read up about in the noospapa. I know the guys is thick, but the answers to these questions are really a pretty common knowledge. I bet you Condi is turning some heads in the Indian FO. She is so bright that if she eat a piece of coal, she will shyt out a diamond.

Re: # 15

bong:

``The civil/miltary seperation will take till 2014. All in all, it will probably enable India to reach the target of 20,000 MW of N-power by 2020, at that point it will represent about 10% of Indian electricity production.``

last night i was watching charlie rose, special edition. he was interviewing some industry leader, anil agarwal. This guy is a part of a team consituted by indian gov. to look at ways to increase power generation. he was giving some figures for the next 3-4 years. I wonder where he got those numbers from.

any thoughts???

Re: # 31; Yeah...and Bush should also ask about where manmohan get`s his pagri from, How come Bengali market in Delhi has only 3 Bengali shops, and how come it took India 2 years to come up with Indian idol considering they can replicate the source code for microsoft OS like in no time. Good point Parthab...Bush should definitely ask about that.

Wonder why `righteous` Bush did nt ask MS why only 9 people have so far been convicted in GUjarat even though 3k people wer killed.

Maybe he was more intersted in selling costly planes and risked losing $$$

re: iron_mask # 22

There is a fascinating history of Indians surprising Americans in building strategic competencies Americans refused to share with India. The issue has even been raised as a cautionary note by some defense experts testifying before the American Congress.

But I lacked the time/motivation to engage in such useless debate as may possibly follow a positive assertion of that fact. Many things just are. People`s agreeing or disagreeing with them is irrelevant.

#25 bongdongs, i reread what you wrote. Whereas i chalked it up to arrogance, incompetance and disinterest, you`re insinuating a sinister motive for visa denials. Doesn`t sound right to me.

Asadi uncle: China has it`s own battles. DO you think Japan is just going to sit there? Where do you tink Japanese insitutional capital that built Hongkong is going now? ANy ideas? When you come up for fresh air from your self administered rectal screening..ask. RE Funds are whetting their appetite looking at India. FII is growing as well. Think chanda think!!!

As far as selling their mothers..who isn`t Masadi? China, India, Brazil, Russia..all are selling their mothers. And it is good thing, their mothers are good looking. Look at the muslim world, their mothers are so ugly no one wants them.

On the visa denial thing, the American Physical Society is on the record condemning the increased number of visa denials.