Another Life in Danger in Pakistan

Re: # 59

Mr. omar_r_quraishi: Thanks. According to news repaorts Dr Sarki`s relatives have filed a habeas corpus petition in the sindh high court. The court has issued notices to authorities. Nothing has happened yet.

Also that I used the word `senior` as a mark of respect for Mr. Cowasjee. It didn`t have anything to do with his `position` at Dawn. I am sorry that it came out that way.

Regards,

#39 Colonel. One of the big reasons for Indians not referring to their army as the Punjabi Army and for not showing any hatred towards it is that unlike the Pakistani army, the Indian army never conquored their own people multiple times.

hmm -- i think you do not know what the editorial page of a newspaper is -- it has the editorials but also carries columns or opinion pieces -- thats the way most pakistani papers including dawn are structured -- the two columns on the extreme left carry the unsigned editorials -- written in theory by the editor but in practice by one of several editorial writers -- the format has been in place at least since the 12 years I have been working for Dawn -- you know mr behram you really must get hold of the facts first before you debate something -- first you said mr narejo didn`t exist, then when you found out that he did you invited him to austin, and now this .. tch tch

mr narejo -- the best thing would be for his family members to file a habeas corpus petition in the sindh high court --

and for the record mr cowasjee is a dawn columnist -- there is no such thing as a senior, or junior, columnist

Thanks to the contributors on this forum who have commented on the case of Dr Safdar Sarki and other points made in the article. I regret that some contributors have tried to distract the people. I appeal to all the readers not to give way to their likes and dislikes and any prejudices that they might have against any individual or a people and look at the case on humanitarian grounds. It is now 18 days since the ‘disappearance’ of Dr Safdar Sarki. His whereabouts are still unknown.

Through the efforts of some people, Amnesty International has taken up his case and issued an urgent appeal for action. Please visit http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA330082006 to know more facts on it.

Some questions have been raised over some facts in the article. Let me address some of them:

Justice was carried: Some contributors have given the impression that military had taken up the issue and hanged Captain Arshad and I missed to mention it. People aware of the case know that the case was taken up after huge protest, media campaign and the heroic struggle of an elder woman of the family Mai Jindo. When the culprit was sentenced to death, his execution was delayed and efforts were made to save him. It was only after the self-immolation of two daughters of Mai Jindo that the sentence was finally carried out. I have referred to it as ‘partial justice’ in my article because that is what it is.

Here we have to consider as to what are the responsibilities of the state and the society towards the victims’ family? 9 of its male members – the bread earners for the family - were murdered cold-blooded. Who should be responsible for the family’s rehabilitation? Mai Jindo and her family have been calling for justice to them since about 13 long years. Many administrations have made empty promises. The family still lives in fear and in horrible conditions.

Cowasjee’s column: Senior Dawn columnist Ardeshir Cowasjee has mentioned portions of my article and some contributors have raised questions about it. Since this was an important and a serious matter involving the life of a human being, I made an exception and sent this article to some lists and human rights organizations besides sending it to Chowk to create awareness about the case and call for action. The intent was to make efforts to save a life.

A recipient of my mail sent a message to Ardeshir Cowasjee requesting his help in the case. He/she copied some portions of my email without acknowledging, which were carried by Mr. Cowasjee. I don’t have any problem with that.

Mr. Cowasjee has mentioned the case again in his column ‘This wild and woolly land’ in last Sunday’s Dawn. It is worth reading. I copy one paragraph here:

“It seems to be the fate of the citizens of Pakistan to live and exist in a wild-west woolly atmosphere, where anything goes other than the law. Few remember that it was Mohammad Ali Jinnah who exhorted his future law-makers to bear in mind, always and for ever, that the first duty of any government, democratic or otherwise, is to maintain law and order so that the lives and properties and religious beliefs of its citizens are protected. From the very start, the small men who followed him have never heeded his words.”

#40 by Mantolives

[I was planning on writing an article on Sindhi Nationalism... but this article emerged. I will submit my piece when I am done with it. ]

Don`t cry out loud
Just keep it inside, learn how to hide your feelings
Fly high and proud
And if you should fall, remember you almost had it all...

(by Melissa Manchester)

#43 omar_r_quraishi

Sorry about the mis-spelt name in #55.

#43 Omar_Qureshi
[...is it standard practice to use an email and convert it into a bylined article...]

Omar saheb, ye kya maamla hai? Did it ever occur to you that it was a good cause?

Did that ever occur to you?

Or DAWN upon you?

Re: # 51

``Its not a guess. Just Plain Statistics. ``

based on what data???

can i see that data. if there is any.

Re: # 48 HP

I have only narrated hard facts and figures about the makeup of so called Punjabi Army.

Your reaction is typical of a bigot liberal reactionary , who can not tolerate anything which does not fit in his frame of mind. Please grow up to be more mature.

I don`t know about Sikhs being 40% of the fighting arms--maybe if one only counts Infantry and Armor as fighting arms--but the Sikhs are certainly over-represented in the Indian Army. It appears that they might be about 11-12% of the total force composition.

The only study that attempts to quantify ethnic representation recently appears to be Omar Khalidi`s and this has received a great deal of criticism in India. You can take a look at some of his findings at http://www.defenceindia.com/def_common/ethnic_group_recruitment.html

Among other interesting tidbits, Khalidi writes that
``However, the government disclosed in Lok Sabha in early 1997 that there were religious teachers of the following categories: Hindu pundits, 1568; Sikh Granthis, 194; Muslim Maulavis, a mere 54; Christian padres, 27; and 11 Buddhist monks, which may be roughly proportionate to their number in the army.``

This makes Sikhs not quite 11% of the Army; however, anecdotally, the Sikh proportion in the IA seems to have been much higher (20-40%) in the 1950s-1970s.

Re: # 47 Netizen

Its not a guess. Just Plain Statistics.

I must calrify that the Perentage of Sikhs in the Fighting Arms (Infantry, Armour and Artillery) is 40%. However Overall the percentage of Sikhs in the entire Indian Army is around 10%.

Even in the British Indian Army the overwelming mjority of soldiers were drawn from Punjab (Both Sikhs and Muslims).

behram:
i agree with you on MQM (ref#36).

Re: # 41 Aquarius;

I had started the list with the native Chiefs as the issue was preponderance of the Punjabi influence on the Army.

General Sir Douglas Gracey was the second Chief and commanded the Pak Army from 148-1951. I must say he was an extremely professional and capable soldier who is respected for his services to the Pakistani Army and nation.

General Tikka was definitely not a Pathan. He belonged to a village in Tehsil Kahuta, Rawalpindi District in Punjab and had his initial education in that village.

#40 by Mantolives
“I was planning on writing an article on Sindhi Nationalism... but this article emerged. I will submit my piece when I am done with it.”


I look forward to that. I am thinking that it is time I write something about the movement too but I will wait for your article.

#34 by behram1 on March 12, 2006 9:57am PT
Re:#19 by HP on March 11, 2006 11:29pm PT

Let’s just wait for Manto’s article to discuss that. But I do think that Chiniotis have done tremendous work in small manuf. area and mostly they have made Sindh their permanent home. The discussion about the army and Punjab would require many exchanges and I would wait for Manto’s article to discuss that.


#23 by bjkumar on March 12, 2006 4:12am PT

#19 HP
(Disclaimer: I know very little about the Sindh national rights movement. So be kind.)

Please see my response to Behram.

#24 by faisaluno on March 12, 2006 4:31am PT


``about time gop taught indian agents like dr. sarki a lesson. and sure its a little ugly. but then, so was the operation launched against mqm by the democratically elected sindi dominated hukumuth of bb.``


I don’t know what your source of information is but just calling him an Indian agent is pathetic. Why would he be an agent? Give me one good reason. He is financially well off. Never had a history of relations with India or Indians, has never supported Indian in any public forum or otherwise. What is the basis of your claim?

OTOH, neighbors do interfere in each others affairs. I don’t think there is anything wrong with it and that’s why I support Pakistani intervention in Indian affairs too.


#39 by colonel

Your post is a typical response from people who don’t even have an iota of knowledge abt the Pak army and its role in Pakistani politics and economic life. Reeling off names don’t make the army innocent.

Re: # 39

colonel:

``We have another Punjabi Army across the border. The 40% of the fighting arms of Indian Army consists of Sikh Punjabis ( who are only 3% of the population). Interestingly the reasons for this great imbalances in the demographic makeup of the Indian Army are also historic and social (similar to Pakistan Army) and do not represent any political or regional prefrences in the recruitement. The present Chief of the Army Staff India is a Punjabi as well are majority of Generals. ``

is this your guess or based on data ????? i would be very interested to know. more later.

chacha akhmad:

``That was an informative post, particularly the comparison with the Indian army which is clearly far more Panjabi (40% of the personnel being from the panjab!!) ``

don`t get too excited so early.

colonel: That was an informative post, particularly the comparison with the Indian army which is clearly far more Panjabi (40% of the personnel being from the panjab!!) when one compares the relative share of the panjabi population in the two countries.

Re: #43 by omar_r_quraishi on March 13, 2006 3:41am PT

{dear behram ji -- so mr narejo is a real person after all} On the other site, I suggested that in his city nobody knows who this guy Narejo is. Well, apperently I was wrong, and my apologies.

{ -- and btw if you hate dawn so much why quote it at the drop of a hat mr behram -- so its ok because a parsi wrote the article you quoted ? tch tch }

I do not hate dawn. I was articulating a point that it appears that Dawn does not promote any minorities in its ``Letters to the Editors`` section, and it still appears that way. Obviously, you are oblivion to this fact. For the moment, your token minority writer is Cowasjee.

This is about yet another subject matter in your papers. Usually, the editorial page is left for the paper`s editor to express his opinion. A strange new editorial format has started appearing on your editorial page, with an individual`s opinion printed. Now should that not be printed on the opinion`s section?

Re: # 32-very true-BULLET REVOLUTION is to target the hot shots; the Wadayras - taking away their property, banishing them; the politicians who licked the boots of the Angraij and enjoy the freedom of exercising unjust powers; the mafias; the colonels and generals who have off the track and off duty; and not the aam public..

well well

---

dear behram ji -- so mr narejo is a real person after all -- and btw if you hate dawn so much why quote it at the drop of a hat mr behram -- so its ok because a parsi wrote the article you quoted ? tch tch

---

my question is that this `article` was actually an email which was sent to various people on several mailing lists -- apparently ardeshir cowasjee also received such an email and used it in his column -- my question is for the editor(s) of chowk -- is it standard practice to use an email and convert it into a bylined article? something like the supreme court converting a letter into a petition maybe

#39 Colonel

Thank you for the information. I can see the analogy with the Indian side. I must say that I mostly thought that there was a great ``divide`` between the Pakistani ``Punjabi`` army and the other provinces. Perhaps there is a lot more to that story than the simplistic version.

Personally, I do not like to blame the soldiers of any country - most of them are making a living like anybody else and do not make misguided policies - and most are professional in the subcontinent. I tend to be harsher on some of their leaders.

Re: # 39


Where is General Gracy......??


and also I thought Tikka Khan was a Pathan... living in Punjab....

But still a Pathan....!!

I was planning on writing an article on Sindhi Nationalism... but this article emerged. I will submit my piece when I am done with it.

Re: # 23 Bjkumar;

There is a continuous stream of misinformation about composition of the Pak Army in these pages. The nationalist (so called) ,for their own ulterior motive, take pleasure in calling it Punjabi Army.

In Pakistan Army the chief of the Army Staff (COAS) is one person who is not only responsible to shape the policies, doctrines on functioning of the instituion, but holds all executive powers on recruitment, promotions, inductions etc. In essence the COAS signifies the character of the Army. Happily this character has been national and instituional and not regional. The COAS`s of the allegedly Punjabi Army, have been as follows:-

Field Marshal Ayub Ayub Khan NWFP 1951- 1958
General Musa Khan Baluchistan 1958- 1966
General Yahya Khan NWFP 1966-1971
General Gul Hassan: NWFP 1971-1972
General Tikka Khan : Punjab 1972-1976
General Zia Ul Haq : Punjab 1976-1988 (immigrant from east punjab india)
Generl Aslam Beg: Sindh 1988-1991 (immigrant from UP India)
General Asif Nawaz Punjab 1991-1993
General Abdul Wahid Kakar Baluchistan 1993-1996
General Jehangir Karamat Punjab 1996-1998
General Pervez Musharraf Sindh 1998- to date (Immigrant from UP India)

The majority of the Lower ranks in Pakistan Army is from Punjab and NWFP due to following social and historical reasons.:-

1. Population of Punjab is 65 percent of the Nation.
2. The six districts of Punjab and NWFP have been historicaly the recrutement grounds for centuries and people from these areas have a tradion of serving in the Army in the footsteps of their forefathers.
3. The Agricutural Lands in these six districts are non irrigated and marginal. Over the period of time the sodiering has become the livelihood of the majority of the people from these districts.

We have another Punjabi Army across the border. The 40% of the fighting arms of Indian Army consists of Sikh Punjabis ( who are only 3% of the population). Interestingly the reasons for this great imbalances in the demographic makeup of the Indian Army are also historic and social (similar to Pakistan Army) and do not represent any political or regional prefrences in the recruitement. The present Chief of the Army Staff India is a Punjabi as well are majority of Generals.

Strangely no one in India calls their Army a Punjabi Army;

Re:#35 by Raw_Dust on March 12, 2006 10:41am PT

{i wonder, where does this recursion of racism terminate for you?} Why should you consider honesty as racism? Which statement of mine was inauthentic?

Hindoos were incessantly putting down Islam and muslims on this Chowk, were they not? So a little bit of their own medicine is justified. Don`t you agree?

{please, if you care to respond, there are hindus who are supposedly the lowest of the low then come punjabis, sindhis, mohajirs... am sure next worst ethnicity would be the very competitive memon business class of karachi.}

Well, if you have ever lived in Karachi, you will know what Karachi used to be before the 1975`s Urdu-Sindhi language crisis. The Urdu speaking tola collaborated with Jamaat-e-Islami to go against the Sindhis. Now that is a fact, and not a fiction. The gunda gardi that followed with the rise of Zia regime is also a fact, and not a fiction, and who perpetrated all this was the Bihari led chor bazari MQM and its leadership that is stuck in London.

{So which crew totally rocks? the people, i mean. i would guess, Zorosthrians retaining the genepool of Xerxes? Parsis not inclusive?}

The only enlightened crew in Pakistan are the poor silent majority, who have no spokesperson as of yet. The only crew that rocks in Pakistan are still the English speaking, nationalists, liberals, and from the other than the loud speaking Panjabis.

And the only crew that rocks in Pakistan is tahmed, and manto, and HP, and Aisha Sarwari, and Asma Jehangir, and Daily Times, and The Friday Times, and of course myself.

Do you have problems with that?

behram: ``Hey!! Dont Shoot!! We are friends, remember!!!``, as the lawyer said to Cheney when the latter mistook his lawyer buddy for a duck. :-)

Respectfully Submitted

tahmed (the panjabi who tries not to be too loud and to speak without cussing)

re`` #27
``its also important to remind pakistanis here that mqm unlike these sindi and baluchi criminals never targetted civilians.``

this is factually incorrect. MQM has one of the worst record of killing bystanders, civilians (even ``muhajirs``), harassing businessmen and journalists, ambushing entire police convoys and target killing of students in the karachi universities.

behram:
Sir, i wonder, where does this recursion of racism terminate for you? please, if you care to respond, there are hindus who are supposedly the lowest of the low then come punjabis, sindhis, mohajirs... am sure next worst ethnicity would be the very competitive memon business class of karachi. So which crew totally rocks? the people, i mean. i would guess, Zorosthrians retaining the genepool of Xerxes? Parsis not inclusive?

Re:#19 by HP on March 11, 2006 11:29pm PT

{There was always a problem with the Sindhi nationalist movement and that was its misplaced sloganeering. It seems that my old buddies are still in the same mode.}

What is the misplaced sloganeering? With partition majority hindoo sindhis left for India, and the remaing muslim sindhi had to defend for themslves. Then, the onslaught of the Urdu speakers showed up. Some have posted that Urdu speakers have made Karachi and Hyderabad develop economically, which is absolutely incorrect.

The Karachi that I grew up in was a Karachi that had memons and bhoris and other gujrati communities is all the economic spheres. These muslims were not Urdu speaker from UP or Bihar, they were from the neighboring state of Gujrat or Rajistan.

And then in mid-1970`s the Chiniotis showed up with their loudness and found buddies in other immigrant Punjabis. And then you wonder why punjabis are hated by everyone. Have you ever talked with a Punjabi in the US? These people are so arrogant and loud, that we must put a muffler on their mouths, just to hear their words, instead of their shrill.

And these Punjabis are so illetrate that they have no idea that they live in the 21 century. And one of them that I know is in the HT business.

{Pakistan’s problems are with the army and the army constantly finds allies in Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and Sarhad.} Yes, agreed, but majority of the Army personnel are from Punjab, and that is where the hatred is directed.

{The nationalist forces must look for allies in those places too. They can’t succeed by just maligning Punjab.} Maligning punjab is in effect maligning the army. And how can those nationalist forces malign army? Are you making any sense? Maligning the nation`s honor is maligning its own army, and you are asking the nationalist forces to do it.

{If the army has detained Dr Safdar Sarki, then he should be released and I fully support that demand.}

And just keep it to that. Please do not show your biases against the people of Sindh.

Respectfully submitted,

#31, #28, #24

You guys(?) are involving yourselves in a wholesale generalization of a people (``Sindhis``). Does it bother you even one bit?

(Note: it is my understanding that Mr. Cowasjee is one of the most respected writers around and a very balanced one. ANY country ought to be proud of a ``hasti`` like that. I believe chowk staff should make a conscious effort to not let these pages be misused to malign such figures.)

#30 by kaptain

what v need is the BLACK BULLET REVOLUTION....THE GANG OF FOUR..... eliminated .. atrocious classes... widespread blood shed..

I assume you wish all the above horrible undertakings on your own wadera class ... who views AND treats the ordinary sindhis worse than scum ... everyone knows that. They even don`t like to have them as domestic servants ... but prefer bengalis instead !!!

#28 by ahmedmadani

Sindhi`s have big problem and as a group they are backward and whining people and in activity leads to poverty and then name calling games.

Very strong statement, but it`s true that sindhis have a chip on their shoulder, which eventually works against their own benefit as well as the country. Their torpedoing the Kalabagh Dam is a case in point.

[I appeal to the human rights activists, media men, political activists and all the readers to please act in this case]
what would an appeal..do.here..? just bind you and ur family..for another 20 years..running after the case..?



[if there is any charge sheet against him, it should be brought into an open court]
haa..this seems the writer is extremely under psychological pain..that he readily forget that a charge sheet won`t exonerate the victim..

and the story goes on..as it has been for the past 50 years..and nobody stood up..

Mr.Writer..this time your relative got into trouble and your pen protested..? now..?

what v need is the BLACK BULLET REVOLUTION..just like THE GANG OF FOUR..in China which operated for 10 years and eliminated the atrocious classes with widespread blood shed..

other than this is crocodile tears..and waiting for miracles..

HAATH PEY HAATH RAKHAY MUNTAZIR E FARDA HEIN..
and..
AAYEIN GEY GHASSAL BAGHDAD SEY KAFAN JAPAN SEY..

rise and protest not with placards..but with bullets..
when terrorists have access to it why not us..?

Re: # 28 madani
[....Good night everybody....]

Looking at your racist diatribe against Sindhis , it`s no wonder that Sindhis are rising up in revolt...... you guys did exactly the same to bengalis - same racist diatribes - that bengalis are cowards, lazy, ugly, indian-agents.....

It`s poetic justice all around, now that you punjabis,sindhis,mohajirs have started killing each other..... first you guys couldn`t live with hinuds - now guys can`t be live with each other....

So Good Night indeed Madani Mian - as far as future of pakiland is concerned.....

Re: # 27

Everything must be viewed with activities and group associated with beaten up person.
Presently elected person Javed H. is sentenced for long time for saying bad things about army. This is not right what he said is said by famous papers like Dawn/ Jang ( newyork times and washington post of our land). This is wrong is my feeling as he was not trator or saying of breaking of country.
Sindhi`s have big problem and as a group they are backward and whining people and in activity leads to poverty and then name calling games. They are not very bright people and do not think before doing and are surprised by their own stupidity. GM was first to pass pakistan demand in sindhi assembly and welcomed MQM/Indian/Urdus and spread fire against Sindhi hindus . He got he wanted, Sindhi hindus left pakistan and they were replaced by Urdus and they being smart and new how to rule upsurped all hindu properties and Sindhis were left nothing. Indian muslims from Muslim heartlands had vision and they worked with vengence against India and created mini UP and Bihars Sindh. They created wealth, same as IRPians going to usa, UK and making little pakistan in Bradford and replacing lazy stupid white people. No point in blaming people who are smart and industrious. No point in blaming white nice people from england going and developing nice usa and completely destroying so called red Indians as they are well known for drinks and lazy behaviour and just stupid actors in ameriki films.
Sindhis are not advanced people and they are made redindians of Sindh and they should blame themselves. They are nice and docile but politically impotent people. Bhutto was slaughterd , and Mohammad Khan Junjo was kicked by intelligent and smart general Mohammad Zia both prime ministers and Sindhis nothing happened. Being stupid and unintelligent is nice looking but its fetal. Today Karachi and Hyderbad and all major cities in Sindh are in MQM hand and Urdu is Linguafranka not Sindhi. May be retards need reservation in sindh. President can listen to complaints but not whiners.
So sindhis traitors do not deserve sympathy as they are hell bent on demanding autonomy and ``Siye Sindh Crap``. Their actions are symbolic and stupid also like defacing signs showing distances on roads to lahore etc. Some time great L.Khan said is write what is Sindhi culture ? Driving camels and donkeys? ( This may not be true but that is what Sindhi nationalists say). They cowards when they gat chance (just like MQM they slaughtered sindhis) immigrated Indian muslims , just for being urdu speakers. They have bad tendencies to be antipakistani and have addiction of blaming others. You scratch Sindhi he is anti Punjabi at hearts and blames all on Punjabis. Also they get money from India sources and many are funded by Indian govt , like their annual anti Pakistani conference in London, usa etc ( sind congress etc, they honored BJP sindhi MPs from India). Also they pass resolutions there against pakistan habitually and demand seccession from sindh and rais all this in usa. This is not good.
Govt is very right to exile B.Bhutto as should be in Pakistan politics but kept out as insurance. Sindhis will never will get anything like East Pakistan as they are stupid first as they invited troubles from Urdu talkers and when they kicked them they cry and mourn. B.Bhutto(alive) and MQM are great things for Unity Pakistan. As if bhutto is out of politics nationalist can capture PPP in Sindh. And MQM being in charge of Karachi and all major cities Jiye Sindh has no chance. They are depressed and oppressed people but they are not sane. Like they can not compete so the sindhi and punjabi retards started Urban and rural divide to punish smart MQM people.
Any way Govt should kick out this doctor to USA as this kind of things state dept can get involved. Any way I am against unnecessary troubles to anybody but also message should go to people like sindhi fascits like Dr.Magsi and JSQM people to stop breaking pakistan agenda or they will be punished.
Good night everybody.

its also important to remind pakistanis here that mqm unlike these sindi and baluchi criminals never targetted civilians. instead, mqm directed its fire against haqiqi and karachi police. the same cannot be said of the people being supported by retards who run this website.

http://www.dawn.com/2006/03/12/top15.htm

Khetran chieftain accuses govt of wavering against terrorists


QUETTA, March 11: Chief of the Khetran tribe Sardar Abdur Rehman Khetran claimed that the Marri and Bugti insurgents had re-established their camps where areas of the three tribes converged and accused the government of hesitating to deal sternly with saboteurs who were laying landmines.

He said that Friday’s incident had occurred in the Khetran area in Barkhan district and most of the victims were women and children.

...Sardar Khetran, who is also provincial vice-president of the ruling PML, said that the government’s indecisiveness had encouraged terrorists in Dera Bugti and Kohlu to re-emerge and create trouble for pro-government tribesmen.

Victims of Friday’s incident were ethnic Baloch, but the so-called nationalist political groups did not condemn the killing of innocent children and women, he said, adding that their silence had exposed their dubious character.

...Mr Rehman, whose wife is a minister in the Jam Yousuf-led coalition cabinet, rejected the government’s claim about dismantling fugitive camps in Dera Bugti and Kohlu areas and said that he could prove their existence to the media.

The chief of the Khetran tribe warned that if the government failed to take decisive action against terrorists in the Bugti and Marri areas, the pro-government tribesmen in neighbouring districts would be left with no option but to submit to terrorists in view of the government’s helplessness in providing them security.

He urged the government to employ all means at its disposal to eliminate terrorists and ensure the completion of development projects, facilitate the people with provision of amenities and protect the life and property of ordinary citizens.

correction. in my post # 25 i meant to say:

``...bb therefore should NOT have a problem if the sindi criminal elements were accorded the same treatment that was handed out to mqm.``

coincidently, bb very recently had something to say on the operation against mqm:

http://www.dawn.com/2006/03/09/nat3.htm

``...Ms Bhutto said the PPP was committed to establishing the writ of government in the tribal areas as it had established the writ of government in Karachi after the discovery of plans to make Jinnahpur by breaking up Pakistan.``

i am sure people here will agree that whats good for the goose is good for the gander. bb therefore should have a problem if the sindi criminal elements were accorded the same treatment that was handed out to mqm.

excellent.

about time gop taught indian agents like dr. sarki a lesson. and sure its a little ugly. but then, so was the operation launched against mqm by the democratically elected sindi dominated hukumuth of bb.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA330011996?open&of=ENG-381

``Amnesty International continues to urge the Government of Pakistan to adopt measures to stop the large-scale human rights violations which are regularly reported from Karachi, the capital of Sindh. The organization has received reports of hundreds of cases of unlawful detention, torture, deaths in custody, extrajudicial executions and ``disappearances``, mainly in Karachi, but also in other cities of the province...``

and unlike these mom and pop sindi organizations, mqm had popular support and it had muscle. and yet despite its best efforts, mqm could not do anything to prevent the butt kicking administered by the army. mqm eventually learnt its lesson and now rules the roost in sind. the future unfortunately is not so bright for these sindi criminals esp if the avenue they are using to fight their fight is chowk - a website known to about five mummy-daddy-types in pak.

as to why chowk-type pakistanis and retards like cowasjee would get excited by the action of these sindi criminals while totally ignoring that hr violation against jehadi elements? its because pak liberals are hoping to piggy back on these criminals in their fight against mullahs. i have one one word to say to this: hamas.

#19 HP
(Disclaimer: I know very little about the Sindh national rights movement. So be kind.)

[The Sindh national rights movement has to look beyond creating symbols and take stand on solid political grounds. The movement needs to look in its ranks and find out who the army agents are and why they are always able to sabotage the movement. ....Lets think of making a case against the army and not against the Punjab and the Punjabis alone.]

[Pakistan’s problems are with the army and the army constantly finds allies in Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and Sarhad. The nationalist forces must look for allies in those places too. They can’t succeed by just maligning Punjab. They need to come out and make the case against the army itself.]

(1) What is the (by percentage) break-down of the army by Punjabi, Sindhi, etc. Can one even legitimately make the case that the Army is a separate entity from Punjab? Even more important, can one even legitimately make the case that there is anything but a meeting of minds between the people of Punjab and the army - don`t the Punjabis at-large feel that the army consists of their own and clearly support it (I mean when was the last agitation against the army in Punjab)?

(2) How will it help to ``identify`` (and perhaps isolate) what you call the ``agents`` of the army in these movements? Won`t it simply polarize things further?

(3) Who should the ``case`` be made to - to the masses? Are the masses really into such things? Is there even a desire to hear the ``case``? And aren`t well-known high profile political entities already in place to make such a ``case``? (Isn`t Benazir from Sindh?) Why don`t they?

#21 by Mantolives

[...I don`t see the angle....]

Manto, did you ever take into account the possibility that there may not be one other than what is plainly stated! What an utterly pathetic creature you must be to be looking for one.

Etenal S.O.B.`s - by training and (in this case) by temperament! Those lawyers shine again - and again!

Now tell me O Super Son of the Shiniest of Sindhi Soils:

(1) why did not YOU write this article?

(2) now that somebody wrote it, what are YOU going to do about the problem (I mean beyond mouthing a few more of your countless platitudes)? Are you going to start an agitation, go knock on all those barrack doors who perhaps so willingly open up to you (and I will leave the metaphors to everybody`s imagination).

(3) Start a petition drive to bring attention to the cause of these individuals/victims?

Let everybody know. Let everyone see whether you are able to even actually DO some actions, too - or are only into bragging and boasting with hot-air - that trademark of your profession!

Thanks for giving me a category!

First of all before I comment on the article... I must say this ...

I don`t see the angle of Indian fascists like Ramanujan and BJkumar... Perhaps they should be reminded of the incarceration of one Shaikh Abdullah for many many years while the great democratic Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru lied about it to the Indian National Legislature... But this far too pertinent an issue for us to allow it to be hijacked by opportunist Hindu fanatics like the above mentioned.

Dr Sarki and other Sindhi nationalists are the children of the soil... Rasul Bux Palejo and Narejo are in my opinion the TRUE PATRIOTS of not just Sindh province but the complete Sindh civilisation and nation state that is called Pakistan today... Sindhi Nationalist Movement is firmly within the Pakistani federal fold and is based on the 1940`s Lahore Resolution (read Palejo`s writings for example)... Time is ripe for right thinking patriots of Pakistan ... those who love this country and those who antecedents fought for this country ... to rise up and support the Sindhi Nationalist movement...

And I thank HP for continuing to explain the Sindhi nationalist point of view to other Pakistanis and South Asians...

Rozaiba...

Dr Sarki`s incarceration is covered in detail by Ardeshir Cowasjee in his piece today...

``Pakistan’s problems are with the army and the army constantly finds allies in Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and Sarhad. The nationalist forces must look for allies in those places too. They can’t succeed by just maligning Punjab. They need to come out and make the case against the army itself. ``

Well said.


Mr. Narejo: The portion about the arrest of Dr. Sarki was too brief. Some background would be good to know.

As Fuziar pointed out that incident happened some umpteen years ago. It was bad but it got plenty of space in the Pakistani press. Why bring that up now?

Aziz Narejo is a great man from Sindh and a stalwart of Sindhi rights movement and I have great respect for him. After having spent a few years in the trenches with the Sindhi rights and the Nationalism movement myself, I think I have a little input that may help some of the readers here.
There was always a problem with the Sindhi nationalist movement and that was its misplaced sloganeering. It seems that my old buddies are still in the same mode.

Mai Mukhataran’s success will not make Mai Jindo a household name. The circumstances are different and I hope my nationalists’ friends stay away from trying to create symbols for rallying around. They really need to sit down and take account of where Sindhi nationalists stand. They took a wrong stand on Kalabagh dam and failed to build up support.

The Sindh national rights movement has to look beyond creating symbols and take stand on solid political grounds. The movement needs to look in its ranks and find out who the army agents are and why they are always able to sabotage the movement. Ajrak, Mai Jindo and Jai Sindh have gone on far too long. Lets think of making a case against the army and not against the Punjab and the Punjabis alone.

Pakistan’s problems are with the army and the army constantly finds allies in Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and Sarhad. The nationalist forces must look for allies in those places too. They can’t succeed by just maligning Punjab. They need to come out and make the case against the army itself.


If the army has detained Dr Safdar Sarki, then he should be released and I fully support that demand.

I strongly support Aziz in writing about the injustices and tortures in Sindh by the army and other agencies. I have a number of friends who suffered during the Yahya and Zia regimes. Creating awareness is important.

Mr. Aziz Narejo

Instead of posting nonsense on chowk, please go to Lahore and meet Asma Jehangir. Maybe she`ll help ... even though she`s your Punjabi adversary.

Dear Mr. Aziz Narejo:

Please come to Austin, Texas, and we can start a demonstration in front of the State Capital. We must unite and hold demonstration.

---

This is what Cowasjee has written:
http://dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm

{Despite our numerous laws and legislations, despite our adherence to habeas corpus, Dr Safdar Sarki of Jeeay Sindh fame remains untraceable. Shortly after he was picked up, his wife circulated a letter via the internet, e-mail, and otherwise : “Arbitrary arrest, torture and disappearance of a Texan, Dr Safdar Sarki, by Pakistani authorities.

“On Friday, Feb. 24, 2006, my husband, Dr.Safdar Sarki, a Texan, was taken away from his temporary Karachi residence by personnel belonging to Pakistan’s intelligence agencies. Dr. Sarki, a US citizen, had been campaigning for secularism and democracy, and specifically for the protection of the rights of ethnic and religious minorities in Pakistan. Witnesses report that Dr. Sarki was severely beaten for about an hour at his apartment by Pakistani security personnel before being blindfolded and moved to an unknown location.

“We the family and other Texan-friends have been trying to determine his whereabouts but all efforts have thus far proved in vain. Anonymous sources have reported that Dr. Sarki is being tortured in the custody of the Pakistani military. However, the Pakistani authorities deny that Dr. Sarki has been arrested. This has caused serious concern for the life of Dr. Sarki, Pakistani authorities having a history of torturing dissidents to death.

“My two sons Illahi (15) and Geanum (10) and I are very concerned about the life and safety of Dr. Sarki and request your office to use all available means to locate him in order to save his life. The extra-judicial detention of a distinguished American human rights campaigner on the eve of Mr. Bush’s visit to Pakistan is a grave insult not only to our president but to all Americans who value liberty and justice for all.

“We have contacted the State Department and the US consulates in Islamabad and Karachi. They are aware of this case. However, so far, no information is available to us. Please contact the U.S. embassy in Islamabad located at Diplomatic Enclave, Ramna 5, Telephone (92-51) 208-0000; Consular section telephone (92-51) 208-2700, fax (92-51) 282-2632, website http://islamabad.usembassy.gov/; contact the U.S. consulate-general in Karachi, located at 8 Abdullah Haroon Road, Karachi;. telephone (92-21) 568-5170 (after hours: 92-21-568-1606), fax (92-21) 568-0496, website http://karachi.usconsulate.gov/.

Contact the Office of Overseas Citizens Services at 1-888-407-4747 (during business hours) or 202-647-5225 (after hours); contact the office of President Bush, who is shortly to visit Pakistan; contact the office of President Musharraf at http://www.presidentofpakistan.gov.pk/ThePresident.aspx.”

Dr Sarki is a citizen of the United States, but does he hold dual nationality? Or is he also a citizen of this country? If he does and is, then there is not much the US State Department or even George W. Bush can do for him as the non-laws of Pakistan will prevail.

If, however, he holds only a passport of the United States which proclaims: “The Secretary of State of the United States of America hereby requests all whom it may concern to permit the citizen/national of the United States named herein to pass without delay or hindrance in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection,” one must wonder just why the secretary of state has not intervened. Is the Sarki operation a joint operation a la Waziristan?

Its considered `hip` to somehow de-grade in Pakistan and arround the world . what happened to Dr.Sarki was right as he was acting against Pakistan(s) intrest

Dear Mr. Narejo:

Suddenly, it appears that you are an inauthentic person. What did you think about when writing this article? Why did you miss out the crucial part that all your concern about this Major has already been taken care of by the Pakistani Army?

So why this sort of shenanigan? I hope that Omar R. Qureishi visits this site and considers your shenanigans seriously. Recently on another board, I was articulating that you are some sort of a ghost that no one knows about you in your city, and today you show up here with this ridiculous article. Do you have any shame?

I am really mad.

Mr Narejo;

I want to put the records straight about the murders committed by Arashd Jameel.

Major Arshad Jameel committed the crime . His motives were personal ; He belonged to that area and used his positon as an Army officer to settle scores, on behalf of someone else. There were a number of civilians from Tando Bahawal area who were accomplices of the Major. Initialy the major succeeded in covering his crime by misguiding the higher headquarters that he had killed know dacoits.

However as soon as the truth was known to the the command, the accountability system in the army which is swift and impartial came into action.

Fifteen army personnel were court-martialled in the case in which nine members of a family were murdered in cold blood in a land dispute at Tando Bahawal in the limits of Husri police station, Jamshoro, Hyderabad. Major Arshad Jamil Awan, the main accused, was awarded death sentence and hanged on 24 oct 1996. The remaining convicts, all from lower ranks, were awarded life imprisonment and to date they are in prison.

Internaly, the Army also severly punished all the officers in the chain of command, who had any kind of authority on Major Arshad. It is a known fact that all these officers which included many Major Generals,Brigadiers and Colonels were sent home unceremoniously.

The crime had nothing to with the Anti Dacoit operations, which the Army was conducting in Sind province at that time on the request of the civilian government of Benazir Bhutto. It was not a pattern the Army was following. It was purely the case of a criminal person who used his official position to commit a crime. He was appropriately dealt and rightly executed.

I do not know what happened to the civilian accused in the case, which were unfortunately being delat by the Civilian courts.


I wonder about the motives of Mr Narejo in spreading false information about the Army. He should have enough moral courage to concede the truth in this case.

#12 by bjkumar

[Ajeya, this board is meant to place a focus on the tragedy of some real individuals - with the hope that such focus will in some ways help their cause.]

Which ways?

[It is best not to turn it into the usual shouting match - which would only distract from its message. I urge all interactors to keep that in mind and add your own positive voice - it may not help but certainly worth a try! ]

No, it`s not worth a try. Pakistanis won`t give a damn, and the few Indians on this site don`t amount to much.

[For all we know - there may be some REAL patriotic Pakistanis (not the usual suspects - the chest thumpers) who may be in a position to make a difference. ]

There are. People like Mantolives, Romair and others seem to be well-connected. But if you think that they are going to do something that upsets their pet theory that RAW is behind bombings in Pakistan, then you are very much deluded.

Even FV, an Indian citizen, was completely convinced that Sarabjit was guilty.

Such is the Muslim mind.

Ajeya, this board is meant to place a focus on the tragedy of some real individuals - with the hope that such focus will in some ways help their cause. It is best not to turn it into the usual shouting match - which would only distract from its message. I urge all interactors to keep that in mind and add your own positive voice - it may not help but certainly worth a try!

For all we know - there may be some REAL patriotic Pakistanis (not the usual suspects - the chest thumpers) who may be in a position to make a difference.

In the latest twist in the Sarabjit case, the Pakistani Court (read President Mushu) has rejected Sarabjit`s plea. Somehow this comes right on the heels of the Indian Govt pointing fingers at Pakistan after the Varanasi blast.

In a way, I think the Sarabjit case serves as a lesson and a reminder to all those punjabis/sikhs who start waxing poetic and misty eyed when they talk about Lahore/Karachi/Pakistan.

The lesson here: avoid that accursed land like the plague!

#2 by behram1

Let me translate this post from Pakispeak to English:

[Aziz Narejo Sahib:

What sort of an activist are you?]

You piece of $hit! How DARE you embarass us Pakis on a forum where Hindus are present?

[Array bhai, you should be activating the conscious of the white folks, who will usually get the ball rolling further than the brownies could ever do at this chowk. These morally dead people will never demonstrate about anything.]

Idiot! Pakis and Indians (read Muslims and Hindus) are EQUALLY bad! Therefore this story is not embarrassing for us Pakis AT ALL! So there!

[If you are truly an activisit then come to our state capital and hold a placard, and trust me I will right beside you.

This is how a typical demonstration of conscience start. ]

What you are is a FAKE! blah blah blah blah... I am not like other brownies.....blah blah blah

Aziz Narejo -
Good to see you again on Chowk after a long time. Thanks for the beginning and the end. They hold a lot of meaning for those who believe in activism. I agree with Behram`s suggestion. Good luck.

#7 Kaurasach

[...most of the world is full cannibals....and Desis being the most notorious ....]

Kaura, are you a desi?

Except the west, most of the world is full cannibals....and Desis being the most notorious ....Only God can save and protect us.....May God help him.

Interesting...

http://www.derechos.org/human-rights/briefs/031196.html

Derechos: The Week in Human Rights - Oct. 28 to Nov. 3, 1996


Oct. 28

(Reuters) - Guatemala - The human rights group Alliance Against Impunity expressed its opposition to a complete amnesty for Guatemala`s army and leftist rebels who violated human rights. The announcement came on the eve of new peace talks between the government and leftist guerillas.

(Reuters) - Burundi - The Burundi army, which is mostly Tutsi, admitted today that its soldier killed 50 Hutu civilians in the province of Bururi. Lieutenant-Colonel Isaie Nibizi said that arrests had been made and those responsible would be brought to justice. A human rights worker suggested that the announcement was part of a move by the government to clean up its image in the eyes of the Hutu majority.

(Reuters) - Burma - The Burmese government today freed 75-year-old Kyi Maung, the deputy chairman of the opposition National League for Democracy, according to NLD source. Kyi Maung had been detained last week and questioned about his alleged involvement in a student protest.

(Reuters) - Jordan - Jordanian Information Minister Marwan Muasher defended Jordan`s human rights records and denied that the government has tortured prisoners or carried out arbitrary arrests, in response to a report by the Arab Organization for Human Rights. According to the report, human rights violations under Prime Minister Abdul Karim al-Kabariti have been the worst since 1989. Muasher also confirmed the release of journalists Fuad Hussein and Nahed Hattar. Both had been arrested and charged with inciting riots.

(BBC) - Cambodia - Cambodia`s King Norodom Sihanouk canceled a previously-announced proposal to grant pardons to nearly all prisoners. In a statement, Sihanouk said that the pardon was withdrawn after criticism from students and political parties.

(AFP) - Pakistan - Arshad Jamil, a former captain in the Pakistan army, was hanged today after being convicted of killing nine villagers from Tando Bahawal in 1992

Fuzair: Good to see you back btw.

#3

Wow. That`s pretty big, for an officer to be hanged. Yup, that should have been mentioned in the article.

I have no idea as to the merits of this particular case but it might interest some of the readers to know something which Mr. Narejo has carefully refrained from mentioning. IIRC, Maj. Arshad was court-martialled, found guilty, and hung in 1996. I think he might also have been reduced in rank, hence Mr. Narejo`s confusion in recalling whether he was a Major or a Captain.

While the military`s policies in Sindh have been extremely brutal at times, occasionally the Army as an institution does something right--hanging Arshad Jamil in this case. It really does nothing for Narejo`s credibility if he mentions this outrage but carefully refrains from pointing out that Jamil was hung by the Army.

Aziz Narejo Sahib:

What sort of an activist are you? Array bhai, you should be activating the conscious of the white folks, who will usually get the ball rolling further than the brownies could ever do at this chowk. These morally dead people will never demonstrate about anything. If you are truly an activisit then come to our state capital and hold a placard, and trust me I will right beside you.

This is how a typical demonstration of conscience start.

These are highly moving accounts. I commend the efforts of individuals who persist inspite of being suppressed so ruthlessly - and use peaceful means to protest. I admire their spirit and as long as there is even one spark of such spirit - and from these accounts it is evident that such sparks exist aplenty - there is still hope!

I sometimes wonder, doesn`t ANYBODY in the Pakistani military have a heart - and does it not feel the slightest degree of remorse for what it does to its own people?

And no, one does not need to be a Pakistani to ask that question.