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Red Sea Rising

Fahd Raza March 8, 2006

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#65 Posted by kaptain on March 11, 2006 2:00:08 am
Re: # 53-how very well vented your dissent and fury and anger. this doesn`t help Mr. Ranjit.
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#64 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 11, 2006 12:05:33 am
Re: # 54

Mr.Arjun... this joke or April fool joke.Your expert knowledge knowledge in computer has failed. Nothing works from video copied.
You may not like but China and Pakistan both on move in tendom. The author is editor of international publication. And he says is right. Big G is rising fast for world economy. Pakistan has properly shown place to USA due to arrogence. Just before Bush came President was in China for 5 days and that made Bush mad but General does not bother about bush. Pakistani economy, stock markets and Industry booming and China economy is acting as Locomotive and pulling IRP economy. Its time to say good bye to America for ingratidue and force them to fight war on terror and time for pakistan to come home let usa defend and kill terrorist. Then bushes eyes will open.
Thanks Mr. Writer for such fine article and giving future of Rising China and Pakistan to new heights economically.
Those who do not respect IRP should cry.
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#63 Posted by Zeena on March 10, 2006 10:35:49 pm
very true
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#62 Posted by rsridhar on March 10, 2006 10:01:22 pm
re: this article
Looks like this author is on dope.
Read what this dude is writing:
1. India, with its unstable government (which was built on emotional maneuvers by J.P. Narayan), was already a hostile state and had needed to take the people`s attention off internal affairs and onto Pakistan. The people of India still hold a grudge against Pakistan for its creation.(my comments:When did JP Narayan help build a govt in India? Is the author in his right frame of mind? Also, India should be glad now that Pakistan was created, otherwise India would be today labelled as a nation harboring terrorist, a credit that belongs to Pakistan alone)
2. The present scenario, I believe, is heading the same direction. The block is still the same, and the players are still the same. The sides and the weights have shifted. China has grown into a major player in the world economy, and India is producing manpower and technical support to all who can’t afford it elsewhere. Pakistan is still the same, and its importance is determined by the absolutely beautiful skill of diplomacy that it’s famous for. The United States is still at the same place, using double standards and double edged swords to promote both Pakistan and India, the former by diplomatic patronizing and the latter with economic and military assistance.(my comments:More evidence that the author is on dope. Since when did Paki diplomats start displaying the absolutely beautiful skill of diplomacy? Did the world miss something here?)
3. However, one key player has changed. That is China. Along with Pakistan, China is developing it’s economic independence and military alliances.

The Gawadar port is one of the major trade routes for oil transport in the greater region. With China’s cooperation, and with natural gas reserves, Pakistan can not only become energy independent, but also militarily strong. President Musharraf’s five day visit to China’s top secret facilities and Pakistan’s technical cooperation with China is saving Pakistan a lot of money, and is giving China a natural ally of geo-strategic proportions. In essence, China is attempting to take the strategic place of the US in this region, and is making Pakistan it’s Canada, by making partnerships and strategic alliances, while making India economically dependant upon it by making India it’s Mexico.
The last one needs a more detailed comment. I am by now convinced that this author onto something: cocaine, hasish or may be it is just plain old rocking in front of the holy book but he is a nut case.
Here is an article from Dawn. Titled ``Challenges ahead in Sino-Pakistan ties (by Ziad Haider), it talks about Sino-Pak relations.
This is what the article has to say about the Musharraf`s trip to China:
(During his trip, President Musharraf solicited civil nuclear assistance to meet Pakistan’s energy needs as per plans to expand nuclear power production from 437 MW to 8,800 MW by 2030. Prior to the visit, one Pakistani official noted that the issue was to be raised as one of “paramount importance” for Pakistan’s economic growth. Two of Pakistan’s three civil reactors have been built with Chinese assistance. Current international unwillingness to bend nonproliferation rules for Pakistan has left only the Chinese door ajar.

Yet the sole statement to emerge was President Musharraf’s claim that peaceful nuclear cooperation would continue. Whether this refers to existing facilities or jointly building new ones is unclear. Meanwhile, Beijing’s silence is unsurprising. Between its Nuclear Supplier Group commitments and the AQ Khan affair, there are clear sensitivities involved in airing a view for or against Pakistan’s case for now.)
On investments from china, the article has this to say:
(President Musharraf also highlighted Pakistan’s strategic location and the Gwadar port as a “trade and energy corridor” to western China. He called for increasing the current $4 billion trade and advancing free trade zone negotiations. Along with 13 official agreements and memoranda of understanding in areas such as energy, trade, and defence, private firms concluded agreements for joint ventures worth $500 million. President Musharraf pledged to continue expanding exclusive economic zones for Chinese investors while Premier Wen Jiabao stated that China would encourage its enterprises to increase investment. Yet on the heels of the premier’s remarks came “I hope Pakistan will adopt measures to guarantee the personnel safety and property of Chinese in Pakistan.”

Herein lies the most obvious thorn in the relationship. Within two years, there have been three separate attacks on Chinese nationals working on key infrastructure projects. Last month’s incident brought the death toll to seven. “Pakistan now needs to put Chinese investors at ease,” noted one Chinese analyst. “Especially with the cartoon incident, investors need to feel they won’t be threatened.”

Such attacks hit Pakistan where it hurts, jeopardizing investments and friendships. And that is precisely why they are occurring. Two of the attacks took place in Balochistan where disenchantment with the federal government has translated into a violent low-level insurgency. Indeed, there is little reason to believe that other attacks won’t happen again unless internal security improves and institutional changes occur.)
Also, Pak cannot take its all weather friend China for granted anymore, what with changing security scenario and increasing trade with India. The article goes on:
(A more subtle challenge is warming Sino-Indian ties. With the post-Cold War tectonic shifts, the rise of China Inc, and the Sino-Indian thaw entailing a staggering $18 billion trade, the sound logic of a relationship forged to contain India has partially unravelled. China has for example assumed a more neutral tone on the Kashmir issue. Though it will still need “the Pakistan card” as it rubs shoulders with a rising India, the relationship has lost some of its burning necessity.).
There is not much substance in much of this chowk article. There are a lot of prejudices at display. In short, a piece of crap.
Sridhar
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#61 Posted by rsridhar on March 10, 2006 9:34:08 pm
re: Bush in Pakistan
http://xgen.vitalstream.com/mcasx.asx?media=1977079&package=1848497%20%20
Really funny.
You need a Realmedia player to view the video.
Sridhar
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#60 Posted by rsridhar on March 10, 2006 9:26:47 pm
re:54 by arjun_m
Arjun,
That was awesome.
I knew about the Jon Stewart show and had posted this link in another forum. The awesome part is that it automatically came on when i logged into this forum. I dont know how u did it.
Anyway, the Gandhi part in that show is enough to make Manto throw a fit and fume at his mouth.
sridhar
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#59 Posted by arjun_m on March 10, 2006 2:46:31 pm
So pakis have gone from allah-o-akbarr!! jihad!! 1 paki = 10 muslims!!Kashmir banega Pakistan!! to begging India to demilitarize Indian Kashmir?

Demilitarization will be CBM: President

Musharraf calls for timely response to proposals on Kashmir

Aroosa Alam

Islamabad—President General Pervez Musharraf says that time is ripe for Kashmir solution which can be achieved soon but only with the inclusion of Kashmiris in the process. “Pakistan’s proposals of demilitarization, self-governance and joint management offer a tenable solution to long-standing Kashmir dispute and urged the Indian leadership to come forward with a timely response to these suggestions for durable peace in South Asia”.

He was addressing participants of a conference of Washington-based Pugwash think-tank Friday.

The President said he strongly believed the environment which exists today both regionally and internationally for an ultimate solution to Kashmir - the environment has never been so conducive.

General Pervez Musharraf said such a solution would neither require redrawing of borders, nor make the Line of Control permanent in fact will make the LoC irrelevant. He said at the same time, demilitarization will give comfort to Kashmiris, who have suffered a lot. He said demilitarization will be a huge confidence building measure and it will also help discourage militancy.

Pakistan, the President said, is prepared to discuss proposals for the pullout of troops from Kashmir and renewed his call to India to start discussions on withdrawal of troops from defined territories of Kashmir by both sides. He said Pakistan is prepared to show flexibility if India demonstrated reciprocity for a workable settlement of the dispute.
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#58 Posted by rf786 on March 10, 2006 10:26:46 am
Dear writer,
total waste of time and energy.
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#57 Posted by lathamaha on March 10, 2006 8:37:48 am
Response # 54 Arjun_m

The video clip is hilarious and thank you for posting it.

A true analyst goes deep into the ethos of the country being analysed. India - a country with a long history and with an open parliamentary system of Government has more to it than meets the eye. Look at Pakistan - the constant military hijack system that seems to plague Pakistan is endemic and requires some soul-searching instead of stone throwing on its big brother next door. Pakistan should open its eyes and realize that all its so-called allies are only there with them for short-term gains. Pakistan needs to go some way before it is able to find its own ground, its self-respect and international self-confidence. We wish it well - after all many of them went there from India. Democracy is not a bad idea.

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#56 Posted by Ramanujan on March 10, 2006 7:11:47 am
Re: #54, 55

Why is the world BIASED against Pakistanis? Why do they HATE pakistanis soooooo much?

Why can`t they be LOGICAL and RATIONAL like Mantolives, Behram, Tahmed, HP etc.?

Well, it doesn`t matter, because Allah is on the side of Pakistan.

So all those haters are gonna lose.

Yeah!


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#55 Posted by arjun_m on March 10, 2006 2:52:09 am
Forbes has released thebillionaire list.

They`ve got 27 Indians listed on the list and ZERO Pakistanis...that clearly proves they`re biased against the land of the pure..

Steve Forbes..why do you hate Pakistan? why won`t you list Pakistani billionaires? Contact Saima Shah for the list of Pakistani billionaires...
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#54 Posted by arjun_m on March 10, 2006 2:26:51 am
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#53 Posted by Ranjit on March 10, 2006 2:23:19 am
Stuka,

Ultimately it all comes down to ``balls``. Pakistanis are congenital cowards. They are mean and vicious towards people who are weak like Bengalis, Baluch, women, minorities etc. They can hit soft targets and innocent people via terrorism. However, when it comes to putting a brave fight and taking on a real challenge, they wither away and surrender easily.

If you look at Pakistan history, they capitulated to muslim invasions without hardly putting up a fight, preferring to convert and save their necks rather than fight for their religion/culture. Any muslim invader faced real resistance at Panipat and from the Rajputs, Marathas etc, while the Pakistanis just converted and then garlanded their new conquerors. The Afghans used to attack Pakistan every few years without facing any hassles. The Sikhs had a easy time ruling Pakistan. The British never faced any resistance in the Pakistan area. Except for Badshah Khan, there were ZERO freedom fighters from the Pakistan area. Instead the entire muslim population were a major chamcha of the british, especially the feudal class in Pakistan.

Pakistani cowardice was on display in 1971 when they surrendered within a few days to India. The same story repeated in Kargil. When India gave a ferocious response, Nawaz Sharif basically went wet in his shalwar and ran to USA to surrender. The same cowardice was once again in display in 2001, when ONE phone call from the state department made the Pakistanis shiver in fear as they ditched their Taliban friends, did a U turn and became US allies.

So surrendering and capitulating is in their blood. If India ever conquers Pakistan, I wouldnt be surprised to see the Pakistani establishment lining up to convert back to Hinduism, even though we may not ask them to do so. It would be far easier than we think. All this Islam this, Islam that is just phoney BS. Only an insecure people have to wear their religion on their sleeves and make such a show of it. It is just a skin deep commitment at best.
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#52 Posted by arjun_m on March 10, 2006 2:03:52 am
Pakistani cities at terrorism risk: State Dept

WASHINGTON: The US State Department in a travel warning described all Pakistani cities, including Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore, as bearing “high terrorist risk”

The department described Pakistan as a country with “extreme security and travel threat in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, high terrorist risk in Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore and all other cities.”

The advisory says, “Pakistan has been a conflicted state ever since it was founded in 1947 when a section of India was cordoned off to make a Muslim state. Two wars were subsequently fought over Kashmiri, and a third resulted in the creation of Bangladesh. Nuclear testing by India prompted copycat testing in Pakistan in 1998, and since then militant, religious and extremist groups have congregated there to target American and Western interests by destroying their properties. Islamabad and the tribal areas are particularly extremely dangerous and targeting Western business interests. Extreme hatred for Americans and Westerners is very common among general public.” khalid hasan
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#51 Posted by harish_hyd on March 9, 2006 11:33:37 pm
#50 by zeemax

[The blunder on the part of Pakistanis was failing to recognise that India could turn it into a full scale war once they realized the truth. India of-course threatened to do that and Pakistanis had to beat a hasty retreat.]

Which is surprising considering the fact that India had done that earlier in 1965. But I guess the Pakis thought having nukes was some kind of an insurance policy against a full-blown war. Once India retaliated with full force, the Pakis were clueless as to their next move because they were sure India wouldn`t take the big step for fear of being nuked.

[In fact, Pakistan Army`s involvement was admitted by them later when one officer was awarded Nishan-e-Haider.]

The Pakis may have admitted that when awarding the Nishan-e-Haider, but at least India knew it earlier in light of the 1948 and 1965 wars when regular Army soldiers disguised as tribals and Mujahideen had infiltrated/invaded Kashmir.
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#50 Posted by zeemax on March 9, 2006 11:22:11 pm
#41 by arjun_m

Well, actually the plan was tactically brilliant ONLY if it had been carried out by real resistance fighters and NOT the Pakistan Army disguised as mujahideen. The blunder on the part of Pakistanis was failing to recognise that India could turn it into a full scale war once they realized the truth. India of-course threatened to do that and Pakistanis had to beat a hasty retreat.

In fact, Pakistan Army`s involvement was admitted by them later when one officer was awarded Nishan-e-Haider.
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listing 16-32   1 2 3 4 5 6

Interact Index

    #81 OzChick
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    #79 khalid_ahmad
    #78 khalid_ahmad
    #77 HasanMahmood
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    #74 harish_hyd
    #73 Ranjit
    #72 kaptain
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    #70 rsridhar
    #69 rsridhar
    #68 Ramanujan
    #67 ahmedmadani
    #66 zeemax
    #65 kaptain
    #64 ahmedmadani
    #63 Zeena
    #62 rsridhar
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    #59 arjun_m
    #58 rf786
    #57 lathamaha
    #56 Ramanujan
    #55 arjun_m
    #54 arjun_m
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    #25 pmishra2
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